They Hate This Country In 'The Gulag Archipelago' Alexander Solzhenitsyn describes one of the builders of the oppressive Empire, a certain Naftaly Frenkel. That person came to Russia after the revolution from Turkey. Through a series of shadowy activities he eventually became a confidant of the Secret Police, member of the Inner Circle and even talked to Stalin several times. He used his ingenious mind to serve a system in its inhuman efficiency. He was the one that used hunger, torture and death to engage the armies of slaves in building those Pyramids of the XXth Century; those enormous channels and gigantic plants, those dams and prisons. He became a general and died peacefully in his own bed. The last phrase in the description of this Stalin's monster is , 'I think he hated this country ( Russia- MS)'. It is a dramatic discovery. There could be people who hate a certain country. Such individuals will do harm to it just to do harm. They might not even feel that they do harm. They might feel that they serve a purpose, a group, an ideology even. They might think they were just doing their job. But they do harm to the very soul of the country, to its land, its nature, its people. Such individuals are evil. They are destructionists. A law professional had drafted, designed and polished the Patriot Act, that XXIst-Century mirror of the Stalin's decrees of the 1930s. That person tried hard to please his bosses. That was his job –to please his bosses. At least that was how he understood that. And he unleashed the evil into the world blindly the same way hundreds of the Gestapo low- level officers did that. He disgraced himself and his profession. I think he hates this country. An ultraconservative activist goes around the country and campaigns to close the US border. He is appalled at those Mexicans coming illegally. He urges the government to build a wall in the desert. That wall will first and foremost cut us off from the world. But he doesn't care in his puny rage. He is nuts. I think he hates this country. A professional talker goes on TV and radio every day and spills venom on the people he /she never met. He/ she calls those people dirty names and openly wants them dead. Those are our fellow-citizens, but he/she does not care. He/ she raises a ruckus about other people wanting to be as happy as all of us in marriage. I think he /she hates this country. A politician lies and provokes wars. Those wars are illegal, criminal and dangerous. We kill lots of innocent people and create deadly enemies throughout the world but that politician does not give a damn. I think he hates this country. A televangelist monopolizes God. He claims in a sacrilegious fervor that he and only he can speak to God. He dares to state that God is only here. He makes us an enemy of the Humanity. I think he hates this country. A political technologist earns money on death. He comes out on TV and wants more death. He wants draft. He wants wars. He wants our people to die. And then he openly comes out with money in his pockets and is hailed as a visionary. I think he hates this country. A columnist openly discloses the name of the CIA operative thus endangering her life and other people as well. Not only is he not punished, but he gloats on that, comes openly out, defies people and gets even more money for it. I think he hates this country. A group of dishonest and crooked individuals try to take advantage of the political situation and our unstable leadership for their own profit. They talk nonsense to the government, cook the books and instigate paranoia. They constantly promote fear and talk about the 'war of civilizations' . They use the country's resources for their own personal benefit and openly abuse the people of the country. They are marauders. I think they hate this country. No names are needed. We all know who those people are. We see them every day. They don't hide. I love this country. They hate it. Choose your side. Mark Sashine, a.k. a. Panurg

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 8:32:02 AM

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We'll run it. Rob K.

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 8:49:45 AM

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As children, we learned in our American History books that Benedict Arnold was a traitor. While Benedict Arnold was wounded fighting on the American side in the American Revolution, he became known as a traitor for helping the British to win the war. It is time for one or more persons to write books about the worst traitors in American history. Traitors USA specializes in providing thousands of postings to aid anyone who wants to write or to speak about these traitors. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/traitorsusa/ The posted description of Traitors USA includes the names of some of the worst traitors in American history: ___________________________________________________________ On January 15, 2003, a full-page advertisement appeared in the New York Times (page A19): 150 Members of U.S. Congress Declare Support for the People's Mojahedin (PMOI), Call for an End to Iran's Terrorist Regime. This advertisement contained the names of only 6 of the signers of the Iran Statement: Democrats Bob Filner (California), Sheila Jackson-Lee (Texas), Edolphus Towns (New York); Republicans Lincoln Diaz-Balart (Florida), Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (Florida), Tom Tancredo (Colorado). Shortly after this advertisement appeared, American soldiers went to war in Iraq and killed some of these Saddam Hussein-supported Marxist terrorists (as classified by the State Departments of Presidents Bill Clinton and of George W. Bush) in Camp Ashraf, Iraq. In June 2003, the French police arrested the leader (Maryam Rajavi) and many supporters. Some members of this communist cult responded by burning themselves to death. Known also as: MEK, MKO, Rajavi Cult, Pol Pot of Iran. The Fox News Channel has retained as an analyst Alireza Jafarzadeh, who operated for many years from the National Press Building as a spokesperson for this group's press office, the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI). Former Attorney General John Ashcroft, an MEK supporter while Senator, raided Jafarzadeh's home to take boxes of documents. According to the State Department, the MEK murdered American military officers and Rockwell International employees. Anti-war critics are correct in criticizing chicken hawks, neoconservatives (neo-Trotskyites), and other traitors who support the MEK. In July 2004, the American government recognized each terrorist as a protected person under the Fourth Geneva Convention and required the American military to protect America's enemies. USA political asylum next? ___________________________________________________________ There are hundreds of current members of Congress, Democrats and Republicans, who are the worst traitors in American history. We need to vote out of office all of the traitors, regardless of the political labels these traitors use. Professor Paul Sheldon Foote California State University, Fullerton pfoote@fullerton.edu

by Paul Sheldon Foote (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 72 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 10:10:43 AM

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Ethics belong strictly to human beings. They exist even in penitentiaries where the inmates hate a rat or a stool pidgeon. The corporation business form has no conscience. Those who make decisions for corporations are constrained to the infamous bottom-line. Decision making is by "cost benefit analysis". That is if a pill causes heart attacks or an automobile catches fire and burns a whole family those employed by the corporation only have two choices. One is to pay the fines and lawsuits and the other is to recall the product. That is the cost and the bottom line is the benefit. In a world dominated by corporations there is no room for human ethics or a conscience. That means that Patriotism is to be taken with a grain of salt. Since corporations employ many more people than those that run the business and have Presidents and congresscritters on their payroll; patriotism has become only a method of keeping the idiots in line. One who in the early days would have been hung for treason is now making government policy and any hero who objects is considered a traitor. The world is upside down. America has never been attacked by a foreign government since World War Two but for sixty years we have been in one war or another. Since Harry Truman violated his oath of office with the undeclared Korean war and justified it as a "police action" congress has never declared war. Article 4 section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress the right to declare war but it does not give it the right to empower a president to wage undeclared war. If a violator of the Constitution can be consedered a traitor then we have been governed by traitors since 1946.

by gramps (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 107 comments) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 10:18:26 AM

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Are the politically motivated 'Christian' Zionist's/CZ's, who are NO friend to Israel or the Jewish people. The CZ's seek theocracy NOT democracy and they have betrayed JC, who explicity said: "The PEACEMAKER's are the children of God." Christ was VERY clear, and the CZ's take obscure and disparate passages literally, but they do NOT take JC literally, and he said: YOU must love your enemy, you must forgive to be forgiven, and do NOT judge the nonbeliever! "Love is not the starving of whole populations. Love is not the bombardment of open cities. Love is not killing, it is the laying down of one's life for one's friends. Our manifesto is the Sermon on the Mount, which means that we will try to be peacemakers." -Dorothy Day The Christian Zionist's believe in a very small, punitive god and their theology is based in fear, but JC said: FEAR NOT! and "You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free."- John 8:32 The CZ's on the other hand, refuse to see the truth that the oppressed have become the oppressors in the Holy Land, and that the book of Revelation is a critique on empire. Not only do the CZ's betray The Prince of Peace, they are dangerous to America, for they seek Armageddon, and destruction and violence are NOT what JC was about at all! JC was about RECONCILIATION and Unity! More on that topic: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 The Spirit of the Antichrist click here Wednesday, August 16, 2006 The Cult of the Antichrist click here e http://www.wearewideawake.org

by Eileen Fleming (172 articles, 101 quicklinks, 274 diaries, 650 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 10:37:53 AM

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It's the economy! fellow patriots. All the millions who benefit from growing economic inequality are traitors to American democracy and the ideals of our nation. Economic inequality is one of the simplest, easiest understood concepts by which true patriots should fight the status quo elitist political-economic establishment. Face facts, in our country money is paramount. Economic inequality is devastating working- and middle-class Americans, most of whom are politically disconnected and disengaged (not reading sites likes this) because they are victims of the elitist politico-economy - distracted consumers and exhausted workers. Who are the real traitors? All those pushing and benefitting from economic inequality. We ARE in a WAR - not fighting terrorism but fighting the Upper Class elitists who know how to label their enemies (us) as traitors.

by Joel S. Hirschhorn (141 articles, 50 quicklinks, 65 diaries, 546 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 10:57:28 AM

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Thom Hartmann, in his new book, Screwed, (absolutely must-read) points out that since the onset of "civilization" thousands of years ago, the situation you describe has been the norm, with a few "haves" controlling 99% of the rest of the serfs.

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 12:02:34 PM

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As of this writing the US had a population of 299,590,546. If, as you say, 1% are the haves that would put their numbers at 2,995,904. I am definitely not in the top 1% percent, yet I have a comfortable life. I don't feel like a "serf" as you call me. I am free to leave my land whenever I like. If you want to call me a serf, go ahead, I have a good life, I don't care. And I certainly have enough sense to realize I don't need to battle the top 1%. All is GOOD.

by sbaker (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 147 comments) on Monday, Aug 28, 2006 at 4:57:09 PM

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...and I'm sorry your life is so bad. Maybe you should quit playing on the computer so much and go find a job or receive an education or the training necessary to qualify for a job so you have a better life. That is what most do.

by sbaker (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 147 comments) on Monday, Aug 28, 2006 at 5:00:35 PM

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'The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience. '    Harper Lee

by Katrin R. (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 657 comments [15 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 28, 2006 at 8:58:19 PM

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Our problem is that 80% of our government is made up of neo-cons and democrats that don't care about the Constitution only that they keep their place in the power structure. The other 20% is Progressives and Conservatives who should be running this country. Corporate money owns this treacherous mix of neo-cons and democrats and thereby runs all of our policy. What we need to do is get Corporate money out of our politics. Corporations are entities but they are souless entities and therefore should have only the input to our politics of the people they employ with the limits applied to the people. They have bought off both sides to the extent that those who take their money to influence policy are in direct opposition or at least indifference to "We The People".

by Sleeper (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 312 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 12:18:55 PM

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Here is an article that shows some examples of pay to play tango: Lobbyists and lawmakers step lively in pay-to-play tango By Marilou Johanek, Toldeo Blade August 11, 2006 click here

by Sleeper (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 312 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 12:33:14 PM

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Do you suggest that every morning Dick Cheney gets out of bed and decides how he will betray his nation today? Do you think that George Walker Bush knows, in his very soul, that his actions, his appointments, his signing statements all weakened the fibre of this democracy? More to the point is the fact that, by failing to participate, by refusing to even consider the issues before us, the American electorate is traitorous to the concept of Democracy, which needs an active participation to flourish. I would take great care in whom one called a traitor, unless we include ourselves on that list.

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 12:24:56 PM

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Where do you draw the line? How far does a person go in changing the rules, changing the marrow of a nation, before he can be considered a traitor to the nation, it's founders' vision, it's legacy, it's laws, constitution? Cheney crossed that line. He deserves impeachment and imprisonment.

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 12:47:30 PM

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was to be defeated at the polls, before ever he assumed the office of Vice President but certainly, emphatically, after the first four year fiasco! If one calls Cheney a traitor, and I call him dishonest and self serving, I call him guilty of malfeasance and believe he should be investigated, tried, convicted and sentenced to federal prison for his major role in the energy policy fiasco and the theft of our tax monies to the benefit of Enron, Halliburton and Richard Cheney himself, then where do you draw the line? Does one call the leadership ofr the Democratic Party traitorous for its abysmal failures in '00, '02 and again in '04? Do you try and convict all those Democrats who followed Bush nose to rectum into Iraq? No , what one does is realise that the Bushs', Cheney's et al are a product of the failures of our electorate to become engaged in the issues and to do their duty at the polls. My day dream includes a new broom in both the Senate and the House, resulting in investigations that prove the illegal practices and resulting in dozens at the White House and Cheney marched off to jail...but that is nothing more or less than self serving, just as talk of traitors serves no useful purpose, in my opinion.

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Monday, Aug 28, 2006 at 7:13:15 AM

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Every Morning anyone in our legislative branch decides that he or she is going to support subversion of the protections inherent in the Constitution they are commiting treason. This is the same for any organization, individual, or even our President and Vice President especially when it is done as a policy to commit other crimes (breaking and entering, wiretapping, coersion, fraud, ect.). There are accepted ways to change the Constitution and none of these can be hiden in unconstitutional laws or practices. Any attempt to do so is itself treacherous.

by Sleeper (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 312 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 1:18:56 PM

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"Why do traitors betray? What do they betray for? Give some specific examples. Here's my beginning of a list of reasons traitors betray: nation, corporation, religion, family, money, power, sex, ideology, ransom, revenge, promises, threats, hate/racism, causes, groups, ideals, beliefs." To me anyone who is a leader and preaches one thing but does another or someone in a position of leadership who promises one thing but delivers something else is a traitor regardless of political, religious or business affiliation. As soon as the earliest man began to think beyond his basic needs then he began to learn how to manipulate people to "get what he wanted." He found that it was easier to con people than to out right force them to do things. Force would come later when he had dependent followers. After all very few people were born a King or a Pharaoh. He also found that if he conned his way into a position of power with followers then he not only did not have to work like the rest but he could use the followers to gain new followers. To do this he had to reward his followers with "titles" "power" and "gifts" to get them to do his bidding. After all it has worked for everyone from even before Genghis Khan, to modern day businesses, religions or political parties that believe in the end justifies the means. Ancient Egyptians built pyramids today's businesses, religions and political parties sells pyramids. To me at least three out of every ten people in modern society make their living off the backs of others through some form of crooked behavior. From the "hood" to the White House.

by dennis garwitz sr. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 1:48:02 PM

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Brilliant article!one of your best. My thoughts on the traitors that run our country or hold positions of power is that they strictly serve corporate interests and could care less about the middle class or poor.you will just have to learn how to compete in the global economy they tell us.What this really means is you will have to work harder and longer for less pay,no benefits and no workplace safety regulations. Americas traitors have declared war on labor by passing trade agreements like NAFTA and CAFTA.These agreements have moved many jobs out of the country and destroyed labor unions.Outsourcing americas good paying jobs is not enough for these traitors they constantly cunsult with multinational corporations on new mehtods of lowering the cost of labor and selling the plan as something that will benefit the middle class or poor. These traitors seek to dramatically lower the cost of labor by outsourcing every job they can to a country like China.For the jobs they cant outsource they seek to allow private corporations to set up an UNLIMITED amount of guest workers to enter the country(Pence Hutchison)and further drive down the cost of labor. These traitors should be arrested or at least voted out of office. Gary Denson

by Gary Denson (2 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 283 comments) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 4:36:33 PM

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Phil Ochs said it so well 30 years ago. Particularly the last verse. ciao Pam L Artist/Band: Ochs Phil Lyrics for Song: Power and the Glory Lyrics for Album: There But for Fortune Come and take a walk with me thru this green and growing land Walk thru the meadows and the mountains and the sand Walk thru the valleys and the rivers and the plains Walk thru the sun and walk thru the rain Here is a land full of power and glory Beauty that words cannot recall Oh her power shall rest on the strength of her freedom Her glory shall rest on us all (on us all) From Colorado, Kansas, and the Carolinas too Virginia and Alaska, from the old to the new Texas and Ohio and the California shore Tell me, who could ask for more? Yet she's only as rich as the poorest of her poor Only as free as the padlocked prison door Only as strong as our love for this land Only as tall as we stand But our land is still troubled by men who have to hate They twist away our freedom & they twist away our fate Fear is their weapon and treason is their cry We can stop them if we try

by Pam Ladds (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 12 comments) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 5:19:02 PM

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This gang of traitors respect no man, woman or child.Not even their own.They live in a world of chaos and deception that boggles the rational mind. It is a form of lunacy and a true lunatic hears no voice, but his own.To attempt to destroy nations and peoples is lunacy. So in an effort to justify the shared psychosis they paint the sane as less than human and deny everything that is contray to the laws of the psychoic. If the people are thristy give them polluted water to drink,if people are hungry give them tainted meat to eat.If the people want to live in peace give them wars on end.Be sure to distract them by making loud noises so they cannot thinkand fear one another. Turn brother against brother and mother against child. Keep them wanting things . Encourage them to demean each other.Teach them to judge one another on appearances. They are the traitors of the souls of mankind They sold their souls to the highest bidder and want us all to fall in line and make their jobs easier.But they cannot buy a soul or even lease one. Seems every 40 to 50 years enough of them can gather the strenght to take over for a bit,but they will not last .We are busy numbering the days of their demise.

by cluelessfl (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 188 comments) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 5:21:54 PM

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Well said. Of course, they are serving soulless corporations. Rob

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 6:17:01 PM

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These traitors have been guided and funded even to our city counsels and school boards. No State is unscaved. Where ever the influence seeks to dictate to those governed and the heavy law is enforced on the people while the soft law is enforced on corporations or institutions. The government is suppose to be responsive to the people, but the corporations and institutions (churches & secret societies) have the networks and funding to buy the media and make a mockery of justice.

by Sleeper (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 312 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 7:35:49 PM

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Heroes stand up to the lies. They speak loudly. They support others that speak up. They also suffer and pay their dues every day of their lives. They still believe in this government. They believe in the process. They believe that justice will eventually be served. Even if it looks bleak they get up as the sun rises everyday. They put one foot in front of the other and they do the best they can. There are no heroes that do not suffer. Those that paint such a rosy picture are deceivers and most likely traitors.

by Sleeper (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 312 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 27, 2006 at 7:51:50 PM

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Seems to me if you are not a traitor then everyone is a hero. This whole idea about traitors and countries is a bit jovial to say the least. We live in but one world, yet it has many countries. And when Religion is pitted against patriotism, we call people traitors because they don't believe in such a religion, or we are not patriots because we don't fight a War with the state that is really a religious crusade? I don't think we can honestly treat the subject fairly unless we take into consideration the act of violence. To me using violence is a traitorus act. Osama Bin Ladin is a traitor to his country and religion if he really did have a role in 911. George Bush is a traitor for attacking him. Osama Bin Ladin would have lost much repect in the world if George Bush did not wage war. Instead we have two traitors slugging it out, and the winner is suppose to not be a traitor? I beg to differ. Traitors are terrorists. Militaries are only mechanisms to protect themselves from their traitorus acts. Attacks against militaries are traitors who think force is the only solution. Force is a traitorus act....It has no thought for life, or other individuals. How can such acts bring valor and honor? It is not achieved.. If nations truly believed in their God, they would know that God of all cultures does not believe in revenge or War. God has always had to bear the burdens of man..and our burdens should be in supporting, not destroying...no matter if we understand a different culture of language or not. I would much rather be a trader than a traitor. A trader exchanges peace for peace...not war for war as traitors so tragically crash to their defeat in its realm of humanity while earth spins more of its historical witness.

by Dom Jermano (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 40 diaries, 930 comments) on Monday, Aug 28, 2006 at 8:56:25 AM

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What??? Are you whacked out or what! What happened to "I may not agree with your opinion but I will always support your right to give it"? You people need to relax. Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not make them a traitor. While pointing out the definition of "traitor" perhaps you should also look up the definition of "OPINION". If in your opinion there is not enough money being spent on education but I think there is too much, that makes me a traitor??? You need to read the definition of traitor that you posted slowly, many times, or perhaps have someone read it to you if necessary. You people are definitely the lunitic fringe.

by sbaker (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 147 comments) on Monday, Aug 28, 2006 at 4:43:07 PM

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Ha. you can't spell lunatic. Perhaps you should look it up and read it slowly. And so you should also agree that we all have our opinion what Traitor means, and certainly the same holds true to how people INTERPRET the Constitution, and the BIBLE. If you agree with me you are a traitor....because you can't stick up for your own ideas...Hows that for a twist?

by Dom Jermano (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 40 diaries, 930 comments) on Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 1:12:39 AM

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Perhaps you are a shallow thinker, perhaps your ideology does not allow you the luxury of thinking concepts through fully prior to handing down your judgements. One might be a traitor to an ideology, one might be a traitor to a concept, one might swear allegiance to a constitution all the while plotting to subvert that document, would you say this is a traitorous action? Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest do not believe in government to any real extent, thus, above, I did not climb on the "traitor bandwagon". They are true to their conception of the Federal Government and seek to undermine and subvert it at every turn, excepting those instances where it benefits their business interests to abide with such an entity. Many here think that this scenario makes them traitors to this nation. I think that such comments as you posted are noncontributory to reasonable discourse. Would you care to indulge in such?

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 7:03:23 AM

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Ardee, If one takes an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies both Foreign and Domestic as a requirment to be installed into an office of the United States then they are obligated to do just that. If they intend to be an enemy of the Constitution then they are traitors rather that intention was present while taking the oath or at any other time they occupy that office. They could I suppose seek to amend the Constitution but not subvert it. As a citizen they could seek to amend and be civily disobediant, yet to me they should resign prior to disobeying that which they have pledged alliegence to as a prerequisite of holding that office.

by Sleeper (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 312 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Nov 27, 2006 at 2:13:22 PM

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'..........but I figured it out, and the ethics, and all you are only responsible for what you know, and you are not responsible for what you believe. and nothing has inherent value in itself value is determined by demand and by 'market price', by what people are buying, and by what's selling and what's selling costs money, and the cost iself determines it's value and therefore what people are spending so what's free has no value and what's expensive has worth you can just imagine...with those costly degrees the expert's weight, as he sits on 'anyone's' purse and what's selling are lies, or beliefs just the same; because nobody want's to know for all 'the truth' is worth the truth never sells and it's worth even less 'than for free' because once you know you can no longer so easily pay for what you once 'believed' it was 'worth' knowing makes you responsible for whatever you do, or don't do and you can no longer pretend you believe in who tells you, and what really happened, and then what to do .......' PS: If anything, reality is not the absense of psychosis

by Katrin R. (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 657 comments [15 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 28, 2006 at 8:34:55 PM

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Very interesting post. I do not believe Bush et.al. are traitors but they are liars and have violated the Constitution. Hence they need to be impeached and if convicted, which I believe would happen, removed from office. I also think they are candidates for a war crimes tribunal for what they have done in Iraq. How can I or anyone believe what I have said to be true? Well, I invite anyone to peruse the files of pre-war statements by the administration and its supporters. Remember all the claims about WMD and ties to al Qaeda? Some would contend that since these claims were shown to be false claims that that proved the administration lied. I say we need to dismiss that idea as probably incorrect and focus on the real lies. How do you respond to someone who tells you she is certain that a statement she makes is true, certainly true? Well, we usually hold judgment and see what the evidence may show. Before the Iraq war statements were made with certainty by the President and almost all of his advisers. I remember Secretary Powell's remarks to the UN and the vice President's comments on numerous occasions--not to mention the Secretary of Defense and director of the CIA. These men and woman (can't forget Condy Rice) assured us, repeatedly, that the claims they were making about WMD and al Qaeda were true, beyond doubt, certain. I suggest if you doubt what I am saying that you may want to re-read the public record. I vividly recall at the time there were numerous other comments from government officials, the FBI and even the CIA that suggested that the claims might not be true. Recall the yellow cake claims? Recall the last CIA report given to the President? Recall the claims from Hans Blix and Scott Ridder? All of these sources were saying that maybe the evidence was not certain, that there were doubts, that "curve ball" was not the most reliable information source, that the mobile biological labs were not designed for the purpose of manufacturing biological weapons. I could go on and on and on with examples. The point to be made is that there was ample evidence to suggest that no one could be so certain that all of the claims about Saddam were true, beyond any doubt. We were NEVER told that what the President was saying might not be true (we got a glimpse when it was revealed that his yellow cake claims were false). I don't know about you but when someone tells me that she knows something is true when I can see that it may not be, I assume that the person is delusional or lying. I refuse to believe that Bush and Company are delusional (I know some disagree), and I do not think they are stupid. I conclude, therefore, that they lied. When a president lies to get us into a war that is both unnecessary and illegal, one can make the case that he has violated the Constitution and should face impeachment charges. Whether or not he is a traitor I will leave up to those language and other experts who wish to debate those issues further. But you will not convince me that they, the administration and its lackeys, did not lie. Like many Americans I assumed that the President may have had more information than did I (we are not privy, for instance, to his PDBs) and was willing to believe that Saddam might have WMD and ties to al Qaeda; however, I knew he was lying because of the false statements of certainty. Had he ever said we think these things are true about the weapons and ties to al Qaeda I might have believed him. But no such claims were ever made. The counter claims to the administrations' assertions were so strong that I was fairly confident that what they were claiming was indeed false and would be shown to be false in the long run. Scott Ridder and Hans Blix have been vindicated! But we all seem to have forgotten that. It has been an agonizing time since 2001 for all America. For me it has been made much more so by the repeated lies from this administration (there are many more in addition to those about Iraq) and the cuckolding of many Americans. It has been very hard to watch sincere fellow citizens swallow the deceit and dissimulation that has come from Washington. And the blame may be spread to both parties and the press. Few, with the exception of old Sen. Byrd, stood up and plainly stated what was going on. And those who did were called traitors. Should we decide that what the President and others have done is traitorous, would not that be the irony of all ironies? We apparently live in an age where "truthiness" counts for more than truth and where the old Orwellian adage, Ignorance is Strength, seems to apply. We are indeed in sad times. Peace, cml

by cml (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Monday, Sep 4, 2006 at 5:20:46 PM

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