Sometimes it takes an immigrant to see it: the US men between 25 and 50 are tired beyond belief. It is a spiritual tiredness first and foremost- they just have no spirit to look around. Life is very difficult for the men between 25 and 50 here as well as in any other country I suppose. It is the time of primary achievement in life, the time of being a responsible provider, of fatherhood, of professional maturity, of establishing thyself. And it is the time for most of them of the utter humiliation when they discover that they have to work for someone else, that they are by far not that smart, that many people are and will be ahead of them, etc. It is the time of profound disappointments and internal loneliness, the void of which cannot be filled even by the wives because most of women in the US just do not know anymore how to take care of their men( sorry for mysogynism, but it is a sad truth). Men in the US are the loneliest bunch of people, prone to anger and moodiness and also to the self- cultivated shutdowns because they were never taught the real manlineness and what they were taught is that you have to be successful, loyal, pay most of of your attention to the family issues and keep your mouth shut. So much for that. I have been to many families, middle -aged Americans and I was very surprised by the lack of support towards any problems of men in those families. It is as if men are not supposed to have any problems beyond sexual prowess, work, money and prostate. Men cannot share their sense of helplessness, their feelings towards even some event or even a book. Men cannot, say compliment a beautiful teenage girl just for her beauty because that might be considered some kind of perversion. Men, the primary providers have a limited freedom to get a six-pack or a gun but God forbid they get a book because that would mean waste of money. Men, if they are professionals are listened to only if they talk on that professional issue. If an engineer starts talking about arts, people make faces. If a woman does that- fine. Politically men are not supposed to express anything but personal preferences like ' He is my man' or something. Any analysis is not encouraged in family settings or among peers. I spent numerous lunches with my co-workers and they could talk hours about their dogs, their 401-k or their lawns but politics is only 5 minutes tops. That is maybe it is not considered manly to rant about something you cannot do anything about. And they cannot, that is true. We have to understand- the horrible threat of poverty is only a paycheck away and for the men 25-50 that threat is the most overwhelming, the most horrifying, the most crucial. No other category is so much subjected to the constant threat of this in the US and no other category has to handle it as much. Hypocricy aside, men 25-50 are the people who maintain the status-quo and they need all the support exactly because our society by defintion considers them as the only category WHICH DOES NOT NEED ANY SUPPORT. So I beg to differ: men 25-50 in the US are not stupid. They are very unhappy. And unhappy people cannot be activists.

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 8:39:26 AM

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First, I'd say it's sexism, not mysogynism. Then, I'd say that you are probably right in much you say, but out of the depression and sadness, there come also anger and fear. These starve the brain-- the upper regions of the brain-- the pre-frontal cortex where higher emotional functioning and executive control functions reside-- of maximal blood flow. The blood goes to the lower portions of the brain, where anger and fear and panic are media. Perhaps that's what makes them stupid, because intelligence is something that is measured based on behavior. They may be sad, but it is lowering their mental functioning.

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 9:06:48 AM

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I sort of agree with some of your points. But I also think there is the element of a priveleged self-image going on. A lot of white guys in this age group (still Bush's biggest supporters) have really had it pounded into them that they are the best; best race, best gender, best religion, best nationality. And they got this by birth, they haven't had do to jack to earn it or maintain it. Bush not only caters to these prejudices, he is the poster child for entitled white guys. The last time a president (Carter) tried to talk white guys off the ledge of our suicidal over-consumptive lifestyle, he was almost lynched for it. Then Reagan came right behind him and told all the white guys that they are indeed Lords of the Universe and they could go out and consume more than ever, it is their right. Bigger cars, bigger weapons, more wars, more, more, more - little brown people in other countries can pick up the tab. Now when some activist do-gooder comes along to tell these guys that the macho fairy tale they've based their lives on might not be true - they not only don't want to hear it, it scares the crap out of them. And if they get pushed, they get pissed. Will they be the generation that fails to the be the best of everything? Rush, Sean and Bill O tell white guys what they desparately want to hear, that they are still the best race, gender, religion, & nationality. Ann Coulter does it looking slutty, she's the political equivelant of the hooker telling the john that he's soooo big, he's the best ever. Verified voting is irrelevant.

by Ruth Lopez (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 9:12:46 AM

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These slovenly, ignorant, minimally educated clods walk around like they are royalty. And your line about Coulter-- PRICELESS!!

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 9:16:14 AM

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feel free to use the Coulter line.....always while humming the theme from "The Crying Game" to yourself.

by Ruth Lopez (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 10:06:19 AM

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I agree Panurg.. I found this realization when I moved to China. American men are really out of touch with reality.

by Dom Jermano (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 40 diaries, 930 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 7:21:57 PM

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as an american i think that you should be well informed and have enough knowledge when it comes to politics, because if america is the greatest country in the world in terms of power and political presence, their citezens should have the same presence politicaly.. or else the country will be run by a few bunch of people upon their openions and elections proved to be wrong measurement because the voters don't know the person their voting to.. i mean his policies his views for the world, and to say it frankly, the american american government is lying to it's people about foreign affairs so when ever mr. bush wants to invate a country .. for oil or contracts / comissions .. the american people will pay .. their blood and their peace on their own land because their government is bombing places all over the world and bulleying the nations directly and indirectly (ex: by israel). american people were shocked, when they were attacked at 9/11 because their government convinced them that " america is a peace massenger " .. they even supported the government more to creat a war in afghanistan to"protect" usa.. awar which was far from being a success, even though, was followed by another war in iraq also " to protect the american nation" from the "mass destruction weapons iraq had" .. a war also wasn't and still not successfull and the weapons claimed to exist doesn't exist.. all of these horrible events and the american people still blindly giving their support to the more agressive guy .. thinking that as more agressive as more safe usa will be .. surely i don't have to say how stupid this sounds but it's the true..

by nasrallah (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 13 comments) on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 2:39:16 AM

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I agree with the above comment that working class white men are under stress. They are being worked to death for peanuts as the cost of living rises. Many are ex-military, which is not the place you learn to think for yourself. They've learned it's best to do what you're told at work as well. Most employers are not inclined to look favorably upon employees expressing "Liberal" thoughts. Virtually all of the small businesses I patronize (elctric motor repair, AC shops, etc.) have the radio tuned to right wing "talk radio" all day, every day. This certainly has an impact on the conclusions the listeners draw regarding the issues (both real and concocted). John Dean, in his new book "Conservatives Without Conscience," makes the connection between the rise of the far right and a growing number of people he and others describe as the "authoritarian personality." Such people are uncomfortable with ambiguity, are inclined to do as they are told and long for "strong leaders" who will "do what is necessary" to put the nation back on the "right track." Dean says he has read widely on the subject of fascism and he is anxious about the direction he sees the nation taking in light of that. I've felt that way for a long time. The American people are propagandized 24/7. An important step in remedying this would be the re-establishment of the Fairness Doctrine. Conservatives fear this would "kill talk radio" (by which they mean far-right talk radio). I hope so.

by Iron Mike South (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 9:23:59 AM

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Is not to kill right wing talk radio, but to re-institute the fairness doctrine and have both sides represented. The right wing lying garbage who pollute the airwaves cannot stand up to honest Americans. Currently, they control the conversation and shut off the people they coyly invite on to attack. These leading talk show hosts are vermin-- O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Beck... They will be remembered in history as the lowest scum, if America survives.

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 9:39:04 AM

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God, who knows. What do they really have to believe in? I can't figure out this demographic you speak of. But it's an interesting point.

by Nezua (42 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 93 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 10:05:30 AM

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although myopic but very real. Say, you work in the Homeland security or TSA. IF by any chance we all here get to our senses and our country stops being paranoid, how will that affect you? You will lose your job. And no do- gooder in the whole world will provide you with alternative. Folks, those fears can sound a little naive but most of the US family providers are naive, sorry. They are not trained to think ahead, neither are they encouraged to do so by environment. You write that they are pampered by the imposed sense of superiority, cheap flattery, etc. But that is all what they have. Alternatives are not there. If you can promise the blue- collar or even a white collar person that he/she will not face poverty if he/she loses the job, if you only could promise him that his house, the one he spent his sweat on will not be foreclosed, if you could promise that his wife will not leave him as soon as he does at least one mistake, if you could give him something beyond that realm, he would maybe listen. But otherwise he will come home, grease his gun and look tough. That is not his fault that is a tragedy of all men these years. In other countries they go nuts, drink, become mercenaries, whatever. There is a mass death pattern of the men of this age in Russia now. The reason is total hopelessness, the cause of death- overwhelming heart attack due to drinking. How about Africa? The problem is color- blind. We sometimes praise Japan but in all fairness, what man would love to sing a song for your boss every day and feel happy? I was in such situation and I can assure you that impotence will be very soon to follow. Men in this country lack the work to do. An that work has to be honest work for honest pay. There is nothing else. That honest pay is sneaked away and thus the dishonest work flourishes. Dishonesty destructs characters and more and more anomalies come out. I saw that before.

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 10:07:40 AM

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Just because someone disagrees with you makes them stupid! This is what you stand for?

by sbaker (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 147 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 10:46:33 AM

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No, no, we don't think you're stupid because you disagree. We think you're stupid because you're stupid.

by Ruth Lopez (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 4:01:11 PM

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I think the first commentator has it right. American men (and perhaps European and Japanese men, too) have to keep their wits about them at work. They can ill-afford to rage against anything lest it slop over into their work. Politics is emotional and democratic, where as work/employment is anything but democratic and is ostensibly rational. If there is something to your demographic it is that these men are trapped at work.

by James Brett (130 articles, 96 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 189 comments [17 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 11:09:34 AM

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But I was at a grange fair, when these men were not working. I know they were taking it easy, but the other people, women, men under 25 and over 50 were so much more responsive. It's wierd.

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 11:13:41 AM

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The best education that people can receive is to learn the tools to become self sufficient and independent to earn a living and raise a family. This is exactly the opposite of what we have been trained for, get a good job for a good company and save for our kids future. The company man has no chance in the current environment that is horribly corrupt with Enron style accounting, manufacturing overseas where products go directly from foreign manufacturing sites to distribution channels. IMO, many people in the 25-50 category of which I am a part of still hang onto the myth that being a good team player and doing your job well will keep us employed. The news that "your on your own (youo)", has not sunk in. In the age of greed, to often the sycophants for management keep their jobs, not a job well done. The result of the last 30 years has been a creation of men that will follow orders and are not able to think independently from "corporate think" of which all people are expendable to enhance profit. I was in IT for over 30 years and the differences of the chain of mentoring and the responsibility that corporations showed in keeping their work force educated when I first started don't exist anymore. The vertical ladder to move up has been pancaked for greater profit and most functions have been outsource including IT, engineering and distribution. As I mentioned earlier, US most companies, especially multinational ones, have as few assets as possible. Some industries such as computer and software, telecomunications, textiles, machine tools and electrical-mechanical-industrial... engineering has been outsourced completely. Localization of infrastructure and production and re-engineering the social and economic practices followed by state, city and township planners would help eliminate the stress. Men need to be re-taught that they can survive and thrive on their own and know that they can get good rewarding jobs without the stress of looking for 6 months or more for a job that would take them 2000 miles away from home like what happened to me.

by Jim Reinhart (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 60 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 11:56:49 AM

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these men keep voting for people who are screwing them royally. The stupidity is blinding.

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 12:04:25 PM

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There are stupid white men that would like nothing more than to turn this country into a country into a police state or a theocracy under marshall law. These types of lemmings will follow the dictates of their fundamentalist church dogma leadership to amorallity. Many of these couch potato patriots are pro-war but not willing to serve. The conservatives left the Republican party over a decade ago. What is left are people that will follow their authoritarian leaders anywhere without question, even to the detriment of their families and themselves.

by Jim Reinhart (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 60 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 2:21:38 PM

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I didn't know blood flow to the pre-frontal cortex was constricted by despair, sadness, anger and fear. No wonder I suffer from vertigo much of the time! Thanks also to Panurg for his compassion.

by Russ Wellen (58 articles, 1029 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 335 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 1:06:50 PM

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Yep. Remember, I also run a conference on the brain. http://www.brainmeeting.com

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 1:39:27 PM

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Since learning of your background, I've been thinking it would be nice if the OpEdNews community could take your lead in working to integrate the political, the spiritual, and the biological. We tend to forget there's more to Rob Kall and OpEdNews than meets the eye. As a serious student of meditation, I share your outlook. That's not to say there's still a side of me that doesn't still scoff at stupid white men.

by Russ Wellen (58 articles, 1029 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 335 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 2:05:02 PM

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While I agree that men in this demographic are concerned with their responsibility to marriage, family and career, that does not explain their disinterest in changing the status quo. As Rob pointed out, it isn't that they don't vote, it is that they are content to leave things as they are. They continue to support the very administration whose policies have placed more burden upon them. Stagnant wages, decreasing benefits and the rising cost of everything from gasoline to housing are direct results of the current administration's poor fiscal policies. I'm inclined to think that their helplessness is self-imposed. It arises from the fact that, as white men, they feel things should be easier for them because that is the lesson our culture has always imparted. That sense of entitlement is bouyed by the fact that our "representative" government is overwhelmingly dominated by white men. To their detriment, these overworked and helpless guys fail to realize that they don't have a thing in common with the wealthy, privately educated and socially connected white men for whom they continue to vote. They have bought into a carefully crafted illusion that the White House and the halls of Congress are filled with beer guzzling, gun toting, macho men who watch stock car races and bowl in their spare time. This illusion prevents them from realizing that most of those for whom they vote won't ever have to worry about wages, health insurance and retirement.

by Lauria Hale (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 38 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 3:36:10 PM

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When there's a game, traffic is bumper-to-bumper for miles around. I know that a sports team owned by a rich guy who can move it anywhere he wants any time he wants is not "my" team. And I think anyone who can't figure that out is stupid. The demographic in question has been trained to competitiveness and wants to win. When they find out that they're NOT competitive and that they CAN'T win, they identify with a sports team that is, or can, or might some day, they hope. It becomes "their" team and they spend a lot of time, energy, and hard-earned money supporting it. And then the owner moves the team to another city, the same way their jobs were outsourced to other countries. It was never "their" team or "their" job in the first place. Look, the computer I'm using is mine, bought and paid for. The electricity to run it and the internet service provider are not mine -- I buy what I need every month. I'm no friggin' economic genius, but I know what is mine and what isn't, and I think anyone who doesn't is stupid.

by Mark E. Smith (21 articles, 30 quicklinks, 100 diaries, 1325 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 5:04:38 PM

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I am 38 y/o and do see it all the time from my peers. Reluctantly when I speak to them they agree with me about the way the country is going in the wrong direction. Then they quickly change the subject to something else and constantly I hear the phrases "can't talk about religion or politics" their afraid to show any feelings on the matter. Then when I hear them say "I voted for Bush, twice" and they can't tell me why, that really blows my mind and I tell them that their vote does count and they are part of the problem they've created. Amazingly they don't like the government they have but continue to vote for it, how stupid is that? lol Personally I think it's affected them even more in the last 2 years than the first 4, gas prices going up, hitting them where it really hurts, some need it in the balls not the brain, lol. It's finally hitting them where it hurts and is why Bush's approval rating has fallen so low now. So there is hope for them, they as another person suggested are just too damn busy trying to make ends meet and the last thing they want to deal with on their free time, unlike the wife who may or may not work and are more socially aware of what's going on, is to deal with politics. I think they know it's all gone sour but their just too infused with the problems of everyday life to give it the attention it deserves. As one person posted about sports it's entertainment and entertainment is what they want and it was probably their wives that dragged them to the expo or home show Rob referred to, probably not something he really wanted to do anyway and did it to make her happy, lol. Well when it comes to what will it take to change their minds at the voting booth is what affects them most, their money. The less money they have or think they have the more likely it will be to change their vote, Bush and Co. has hit them where it hurts, gas and electric bills, that's what they see when they write out the checks every month and that's what they understand. Take care, Chuck :)

by Charles Warner (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 5 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 6:06:50 PM

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You don't have to be a foreigner to know caucasian men are psycho-sexually maladjusted- just ask me, a trapped Afro-American man in Amerikkka. But before I begin, let me use the words of Pachgantachilias, a Delaware Chief: "I'll admit there are good white men, but they bear no proportion to the bad; the bad must be the strongest for they rule. They do what they please. They enslave those who are not of their color, although created by the same Great Spirit who created them. They would make slaves of us if they could; but as they cannot do it, they kill us. There is no faith to be placed in their words. They are not like the Indians who are only enemies while at war, and are friends at peace. They will say to an Indian, "My friend, my brother!" They will take by the hand and, at the same moment, destroy him. And you will be treated by them before long. Remember this day I warned you to beware of such friends as these. I know the Long-knives. They are not to be trusted." The white man today is running out of time with their White Man's burden talk and what is confusing to them is WHY no one across the world is interested in paying them any attention anymore. If it wasn't for the fiat dollar that is going to collapse, Amerikkka would have been finished years ago. But remember, what goes around comes around and from the thousands of Afro-Americans lynched from 1776 to 1996 (James Byrd was dragged to his death in Texas were his body was decapitated and destroyed- in the year of 1996!) have to be avenged, This comes from the Bible that you caucasians believe in, even though these mythological men and women are AFRIKAN PEOPLES. Is a white Jesus still coming to save you? From the Tuskegee Bad Blood Experiment to 9/11, caucasian people believe life is a fairy tale and heaven is on EARTH for only them to enjoy. Their fear comes from what will happen if it all collapses, just like after the Civil War and the southern plantation owners thought the NEGRO was coming to rape their wives, daugthers, nieces, etc (any females). Look at your news. It is merely an account of the exploits of caucasian people. Afro-Americans appear only in the context of caucasoid action, usually on the receiving end. Non-caucasians are not portrayed as agents of history, only as victims (of) and responders to it. Newscasters who are conservative show good caucasian action to celebrate Western civilization. Liberal newscasters show bad caucasian action to scold and/or improve caucasians. As proposed by Dr. Cress-Welsing, caucasians MUST CONTROL the nine areas of activity (Economics, War, Education, Sex, Religion, Politics, Law, Labor, and Entertainment) to ensure their GENETIC survival. Black Man + White Woman = BLACK BABY; Latino Man + White Woman = LATINO BABY, you get the picture. But don't be scared caucasians: the people of the world are only interested in FREEDOM, JUSTICE, and EQUALITY which equals TO SELF DETERMINATION. We all want to just do our own thing and stop meddling in the world's affairs because you can't control the world, and the world knows it but because caucasians are gullible, you folks will fall for anything, including losing your quasi-freedom for so called security in this quasi War on Terror, Racism, Sexism, Drugs- all smoke screens to continue caucasian dominance across the world. And the war in Iraq? This is what the Iraqi people know from watching the Katrina debacle in New Orleans: "If the Senators and Congressman come to you with promises of what they will do for you, do not believe them. They are not your friends. They will only give you crumbs. If the Indian is ugly, poor, and illiterate and if an Indian is well-dressed and college educated, he is your friend. The white man is not your friend; he is your friend only when he wants something from you. He will forget you. The Indian cannot forget."

by prdblkmn (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 9:52:47 PM

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as an american i think that you should be well informed and have enough knowledge when it comes to politics, because if america is the greatest country in the world in terms of power and political presence, their citezens should have the same presence politicaly.. or else the country will be run by a few bunch of people upon their openions and elections proved to be wrong measurement because the voters don't know the person their voting to.. i mean his policies his views for the world, and to say it frankly, the american american government is lying to it's people about foreign affairs so when ever mr. bush wants to invate a country .. for oil or contracts / comissions .. the american people will pay .. their blood and their peace on their own land because their government is bombing places all over the world and bulleying the nations directly and indirectly (ex: by israel). american people were shocked, when they were attacked at 9/11 because their government convinced them that " america is a peace massenger " .. they even supported the government more to creat a war in afghanistan to"protect" usa.. awar which was far from being a success, even though, was followed by another war in iraq also " to protect the american nation" from the "mass destruction weapons iraq had" .. a war also wasn't and still not successfull and the weapons claimed to exist doesn't exist.. all of these horrible events and the american people still blindly giving their support to the more agressive guy .. thinking that as more agressive as more safe usa will be .. surely i don't have to say how stupid this sounds but it's the true..

by nasrallah (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 13 comments) on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 2:36:57 AM

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Dear Rob: Great site you've got, but I've been shouting for the past 6 years that the answer to your question can be found in a single, short book, easy to read book. But first the good news: the stupidity isn't just limited to American White men. Or even to men of the western world. After all, it was Aztec warrior culture that believed that the living hearts of thousands of sacrificial victims must be ripped out of their chests, to satisfy the gods and keep the universe spinning. That sort of fits the definition of "stupid", doesn't it? Which is indeed the one-word (ok, two-word) answer to your question: "Ethnic Conflict." You see, we humans are literally programmed to BAND TOGETHER and FIGHT. The primordial response is "FIGHT! or flight," and in most animal groups, banding together - strength of numbers - determines which side will win. In a battle of lions vs hyenas, wildlife biologists can usually predict which side will win based strictly on combined weight of the two opposing sides. If the dozen hyenas outweigh the 4 lionesses, the lionesses will usually retreat from their own kill. If a 500 lb. male lion comes on the scene, the situation is now reversed. Humans are, of course, the same way - we are social group animals, and, all other things being equal, in conflict the side that is bigger will usually win out over the side that is smaller. WAR, of course, is the art, science, study, and practice of making things as UNEQUAL as possible - giving YOUR side a terrific advantage, whether the bone-club portrayed in the first scene of the sci-fi epic 2001 Space Odyssey (touching the super-intelligent megalith, one of the ape-men has a flash of inspiration that a large thighbone picked up off the ground, and used as a club, will smash the skulls of the opposing group of ape-men). Today, that "we work to make things UNEQUAL" art of warfare would be US or Israel bombers dropping bombs and missiles from 35,000 feet, like dropping a letter into the post box. Or, in a-symetrical warfare, inserting an anthrax letter into a post box becomes an act of agression, as does a hack or virus attack on the opponent's computers, i.e. information/command/control/communication ("C-3" in military parlance) system (Now that we mention it, the term that CNN and other media "military analysts" so love, "asymmetrical warfare," describes ALL warfare as we have just mentioned - the search for an 'unfair' advantage, an unsymmetrical, asymmetrical advantage over the enemy.) To see the genetic, primordial roots of this behavior, as exhibited in our primate cousins, go to PrimateInfanticide.blogspot.com. From the summary analysis of observed primate (chimp) behavior, you will see that as soon as the chimpanzee troupe expands to the point where the territory can no longer support all the members satisfactorily, the troupe SPLITS into two halves, one half usually being larger and more powerful than the other. At first the dividing line between the two new troupes is respected, but eventually, one or both troupes create patrols of mature males patrolling their borders. If such a patrol stumbles on the opposing troupe's similar patrol, their is much confrontational display. Jumping and vocalizing and baring fangs and aggressive show, but the two sides usually move on without a fight. BUT if one patrol stumbles on some INDIVIDUALS of the other troupe, aggression ensues, an attack by 2, 3, 4 or more adult male chimps on an individual chimp, or even a female with child. In the case of Jane Goodall's research, eventually one larger troupe completely wiped out their siblings and brethren who had split off from them a year or two earlier! Which, indeed, is the answer to that eternal bible question asked of God by the fratricidal Cain after he has killed his brother: "Am I my brother's keeper?!" The answer is, "Depends on which side your brother is on." "IF he is on YOUR side, you will try to defend him from the other troupe, and he will try to defend you. If, however, he is one of the primates who has split off from your troupe, and is a member of the opposing troupe, all bets (or blood ties) are off, and you will try to murder him in conflict." Thus it is that racial hatred is merely an "us vs them" expression of this primordial urge to "kill the opposing troupe!" IF White racists didn't have Blacks, native Americans, Mexicans, or other "brown skinned" opposition to hate, they would soon start choosing sides up within their own race. As when the Spartans enslaved their fellow Greek Helots. Or as the Serbs and Croats had at each other in both WWII and again in the 1990s during the disintigration of Yugoslavia. Or, the manner in which the Irish and Scots were considered immenently disposable savages by the English in the islands that would come to be known as Britain, but once these three groups migrated to America frontier and Deep South, they fused into a single social "race" that formed the Confederate states and Confed. army. To see how this balance of "us vs them" conflict plays out in American society on the turn of this new millenium, see "Made in Texas: George W. Bush and the Southern Takeover of American Politics." Which, right there in the title, describes how the Southern, formerly Confederate States have now left their imprint on all American politics, to the point where even northern states like Kansas can succumb to the "What's the matter with Kansas?" syndrome, White voters VOTING AGAINST THEIR OWN BEST ECONOMIC INTEREST, in favor of being members of an aggressive, hierarchical, conformist, warrior based clan - the clan that is currently being led by the "war president" who has never been to war.

by verifi (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 10 comments) on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 6:55:39 AM

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Don't kid yourselves! If Rob was wearing nothing but a fishing shirt...... standing next to those mannequins of colonial patriots..... approaching every man between 25 and 50 and wanting him to sign his vote in one of those little booths....I ain't sure how happy that make me, either! My mama taught me .......

by Katrin R. (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 657 comments [15 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 7:33:35 AM

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Back when I was a young sexy thing, it was apparent to me, that what made men stupid was because the blood would flow out of their brains to below their belt, If Rob had been a young sexy thing with a petition, I would wager that those 'stupid white men' would have flocked to her and signed anything! As far as them being Christians and walking around in a daze or a haze, they certainly are NOT living the life Christ promised: I come that you would have life to the full: abundant life."-John 10:10 THAT takes deep thinking and than action! e http://www.wearewideawake.org

by Eileen Fleming (172 articles, 101 quicklinks, 274 diaries, 650 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 8:02:03 AM

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I can't help intervening once more. I learned a lot from the proceedings. But I also see some troubleseome trend- there is not compassion and not many ways of help offered above in those comments. It is not that I think our comments are not correct. They are. But I thhnk we understand- those are the people who live here and those are the people who define where the country goes. They can be all of that we consider they are, Forrest Gumps in disguise but that is what we have; there are no others. And historically ( and I lived in many coutries) I have to admit that people of such kind are a majority in the whole world (I am not sure about China, Ikster can correct me) but , for instance, I do work with a lot of people from India and they are the same! This is not an insult of Hindu culture- just an observation. There was a line in one comment above that women sometimes are more informed because they have time. That is very true. But also to have time to think and ponder is not encouraged among males and not only here. Only a very self -confident person can make his time no matter what. And I think, we have to say that men in this country need help. They need to have free time and that time has to be legitimate free time for thinking. Wendell Berry propagated the slef- confidence of men and the necessity to have free brain. Now, here is an interesting twist: if Rob Kall or whoever would open a stand with drinks and call it a ' political bar' and offer men ( I mean it!) to come and talk and rant and whatever, but no fighting- that will be a camaraderie right away. And here I have found that magic word- CAMARADERIE. Men crave for it. It is their weak spot. It is more needed than sex. Give them camaraderie and they will go for it and their brains will reboot. So that's my suggestion to all of you- make them your comrades, do not be afraid of the history of the word- it is a manly words and without it we are all just little molecules. Thanks

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 8:52:45 AM

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For Camaraderie to work, there has to be a connection. I think Eileen may have it right. I'm not a pretty 20 something. I look my age and it may be that these guys aren't interested in talking to a 55 year old guy.

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 3:12:49 PM

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White men buy into the persistent nationalistic myths they have been taught (but not taught to debunk) since childhood: The myth of American exceptionality, for example. They buy in because it makes them feel special - and superior -despite hard evidence to the contrary. They also fervently believe that "we owe our freedom to our soldiers" (when actually the Pentagon is potentially a major threat to the Rebublic - e.g., martial law). Since many working class men in the 25 -50 demographic are vets, they are particularly comfortable with this myth.

by Iron Mike South (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments) on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 10:16:07 AM

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I have spent way too much time on the roads of this country jogging and getting egged, heckled and swerved at by white men not to think there is something cowardly and boastful in their nature. Not every white male driving by me has attacked, but every egging, every catcall every swerve toward the shoulder where I was jogging was by a car full of white guys. Why do they do it? I would love to confront them without their vehicle and find out. Somehow these guys are always able to drive off somewhere and disppear into the woodwork. I guess it is a demonstration of the vast superiority of the breed tooling around in its motor cars. Robert Chapman Brooktondale, NY

by Robert Chapman (28 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 556 comments) on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 11:57:38 AM

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A couple of comments up someone offered camaraderie as a way of approaching these guys. Again it is what is needed, understanding, friendship etc. But politically and we are talking politics here, what these guys understand is power. Dating myself, but to make a point, they may go to a Rod Stewart concert one night and a ZZ Tops concert the next- insert here a contemporary example- and think they are well rounded, but the common thread is the worship of power, wealth, and flash. Clinton understood that and was successful in reaching them. I don't think that is enough, I think we need to re-make the society and that will probably mean overwhelming and suppressing them. They understand that and resist. Robert Chapman Brooktondale, NY

by Robert Chapman (28 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 556 comments) on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 12:06:40 PM

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About "I SEE STUPID WHITE MEN..."  My brain is still whirling in shock regarding your obsevation that the men in the 25 to 50 year bracket, their most active and productive years, are ignoring their responsiibilities as citizens. How come, others including myself have, with many forming the evidence toting big bellies and waddling yawning before us, let the situation slide so long. . Approached with this observation this group would state that providing for a family was obsorbing their energy. Certainly, It requires effort to stay abreast of what's happening and to preform the duties of citizenship which necessary to protect and further democracy which is the road to justice and equality. But given the large per cent of our populace falling into this cattgory, while it's a form of laziness, it is also the failure of those of us whose job it is to inform them. Some 71 years ago when I chose journalism as my vocation I pledged to tell the truth, all of it as I saw, heard and discerned it. But, I also promised to give credit where it was due. The finale, never to criticize unless we could offer remedy kept the unplatable news at least partially positive. Now it is our challenge to awaken these people and put them back into community. With one-third of our residents yawning how can we run a  democracy.  We need to reconnoiter and devise a wake-up battle plan. Can we hit them with the something as arresting as "I See Stupid White Man!

by emily horswill (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 79 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 1:05:10 PM

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I think maybe something more like 'Paradoxical Intention' is in order, here. How about if we tell these men just how much we appreciate their broad-mindedness, and their interest in Democracy and Justice..... that they make time for important social matters, and those concerning our/our children's health and enviroment. See, I would respond to that. I tend to live up to people's expectations of me. When they think I am really smart, I usually am...when I am labelled as stupid and retarded, I tend to not disappoint them either. Currently, I am both.

by Katrin R. (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 657 comments [15 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 4:08:26 PM

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I went back to the grange for another episode, working the "booth," this time, paying even more attention to the 25-50 year olds. I mentioned it to some of the others in the booth. I said that only one in three, at best responded, in that age range. Mary Ann said she thought that it was more like one in four. She's probably right. But I realized that if guys have beards-- not goatees-- but full beards, they're about even with women. Overall, in spite of the stupid white men, it's been a real pleasure working in the booth, seeing people shift from mildly annoyed that I was interrupting their walk through the grange fair to them finding out that they were going to vote on electronic machines to them realizing they didn't like it and deciding it was worth their time to sign a petition. I even tried to shame one guy. He was there with his son, and said he didn't care and it was hopeless. I pointed out, "do you want to set an example for your son to give up?" He answered, "Yes," and walked away. Stupid, stupid. And Stupid.

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 3:19:18 PM

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STUPID!

by Katrin R. (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 657 comments [15 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 25, 2006 at 10:46:39 PM

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