EVOLUTION & FAITH

Mr. Henderson:  

I have been a pastor for almost 35 years and, like you, I am educated.   I consider myself to be conservative in my beliefs, both socially and religiously.   However, I accept the general premise of Darwin's evolution theory and that does not diminish my faith in God's creative power or His Word in the least.  

You see, I have faith to believe that God set the pieces to the evolutionary puzzle in place and God put them in motion.  Surely, you can respect that point of view.

I suspect that at least one or two of the candidates who raised their hands in the debate, agree with my beliefs.  Unfortunately, the question to which you refer was obviously designed by Mr. Matthews to marginalize certain candidates and portray them as moronic Christain fundamentalists.   

One would think that a man of your stature could clearly see the forest through the trees.

Respectfully,

Pastor David Oliver / Columbus, NM

by Dave Reader / NM (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments) on Saturday, May 5, 2007 at 6:31:36 PM
 

Evolution doesn't need faith

"the question to which you refer was obviously designed by Mr. Matthews to marginalize certain candidates and portray them as moronic Christain fundamentalists.

That's not obvious to me. That seems like a question that reasonable people, even Christian ones, would want answered by any candidate, especially these days with so many religious zealots infiltrating politics.

Nobody has called these extremist Christian candidates moronic but you. What they are is dissociated from our common reality, and dangerous to the rest of us if in power because of it. Some sound like lunatics, and Brownback is one of them. If offering their beliefs is making morons of them, take that up with the believers.

There is nothing honorable about faith. It is just a guess. Even if you happen to have guessed correctly, you don't know that yet, no matter how insistently you claim that you do.

And if you have guessed incorrectly, faith will prevent you from discovering any truths that don't support the dogma. That is why it should only be applied to subjects that can't be checked or contradicted by science.

And it doesn't take faith to accept Darwin's theory, even if you have the "faith" to accept it. It takes only intellect - unless you can't understand it, in which case you can only "know it" (accept it) by faith (guessing).

If reason supports it, it doesn't matter whether faith concurs or not. That is why faith should claim certain knowledge (and we don't have to accept such claims) only about that which is inaccessable to reason and the senses.

If that offends you as a clergyman (your language, which is very defensive, suggests that it does), then that is your choice. You have put all of your eggs into the Christian basket, and you have a stake in that guess. You want respect for your education in the Bible and you committment to your guess. To me, that's like soldiers wanting respect for fighting the wrongwar because they meant well. I respect that you mean well, but I do not respect your beliefs or your career choice, just your right to them. The most I can give you is tolerance. You need to get validation for your Christianity from Christians. I have no reason to admire it or to respect an education in it any more than if we were talking about Zoroastroism or the Viking pantheon.

by Yaybob (12 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 175 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 7:11:39 PM
 

*

PROVERBS 26:4

by Dave Reader / NM (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 10:47:50 PM
 

Simple Faith for Us Simple Folks

I went to a Catholic High School and our science teacher taught us about Darwin with acceptance of his theories. We were not instructed to chose between the Bible or Darwin. I have always felt  that belief in the literal Bible was a bit of foolishness, it is so contrary to proven facts. We used to believe that heaven was Up in the air somewhere. Well now that we have been there and can see beyond our own world.,Where the hell did heaven go? For all the die hard bible literalists you need to learn to accept ,on your deep abiding faith, that Heaven is a spiritual place, not restricted by geography or theology. To me, a person who only believes in the literal interpretation of the bible ,has no faith in God and his powers. Faith is like compassion, your either have it or you don't and it cannot be faked.

by cluelessfl (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 184 comments) on Saturday, May 5, 2007 at 6:46:03 PM
 

Debate evolves into Intelligent Design

Matt, I think you might be surprised to find what percentage of this country believes in creationism over evolution. Do not take for granted that all people have had the access to scientific instruction in school or that all parents allow fair discussion of the two. Science class is one of the biggest losers in the era of the No Child Left Behind act, where schools are forced to concentrate on teaching kids how to perform well on standardized exams over gym, the arts and sciences.

by Gustav Wynn (51 articles, 34 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 235 comments) on Saturday, May 5, 2007 at 11:32:45 PM
 

Nice one, padre

So, you offer me bible quotes? LOL. Like I said, committed to the guess.

There's no turning back for you now, padre. How embarrassing that you might have glommed onto the first "ism" presented to you while in diapers, made a career of it, and now have to deal with upstarts like me who dare to question the sanity, let alone wisdom, of such an ancient, wild guess.

Faith is the substance ("proof") of things that just aren't true, of unsubstantiated claims that cannot be demonstrated, and that will never be challenged or questioned by the "faithful" mind again. It is neither hope nor belief, both of which, more honestly, acknowledge probability and uncertainty. Not faith. Faith is unjustified certitude.

Padre, we accept you as a person and as a citizen. But as long as you trade in mythology and magic, you cannot consider yourself more educated than a tarot card reader. I'm sure that they spend hundreds of hours studying their nonsense too. It doesn't make it academic. Sorry. Your choice, not mine.

The reason that you're getting this blunt and frank answer is that you demand respect for something that many of us simply do not respect, if not loathe outright. Religion has been used repeatedly against the human race, as it was again this century in America to get people to vote for an inhuman monster. And you clergy were instrumental in making that unnatural abomination come to pass. Where's your god now? Still instructing George on how to eff up the world?

Many of us are through giving religion lip service. It's less than useless. Look how little it has done for you. Your performance here in this debate has done nothing to further your case that religious contemplation is worthwhile, or is related to truth or reality. Au contraire. It is quite base.

Go ahead and believe. But *earn* your respect, don't demand it. And you won't earn it with ad hominem attacks couched in quotes from your prehistoric book. You cannot just appear in a secular forum with your collar on and expect the obeisance and doting that your bleating flock affords you on Sundays after you have told them to be good for the three thousandth time, still in vain.

Here's one for you from Ezekiel 25:17  and the prophet Quentin of Tarrentino: "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."  See. Anybody can make this stuff up. LOL.

by Yaybob (12 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 175 comments) on Monday, May 7, 2007 at 6:10:36 AM