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May 6, 2007 at 01:36:45

9/11: Challenging 'Loose Change'

by Mary MacElveen     Page 1 of 2 page(s)

www.opednews.com

 

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I often wonder if those who believe in conspiracy theories act in a cult like fashion in which anyone who questions the group as a whole is often shunned.  One definition of a cult is a small group of devotees.  In challenging the conspiracies that surround 9/11 even though I said I would not address this issue again, I felt the need to.  It was in challenging these beliefs I was told by someone that I was in the minority and as stated previously, I asked; who was this person polling. 

I will state again that while in the beginning I too believed in these theories, I had to open my mind to other possibilities which brought about the devastation of that day.  In speaking to so many people outside the Internet community, I did not find one who did believe that it was a grand conspiracy perpetrated by our government.  When I relayed to most of the people I spoke with that certain articles were being circulated around the Internet that Virginia Tech was a perpetrated by the government, it was met with complete outrage and disgust.  I stated to those I conversed with, do not shoot the messenger, meaning me.  But, they were dumbfounded.

I often wonder if there is a real and credible terrorist threat that we should pay attention to; will it be confronted by conspiracy theorists not to pay attention to it via alerts circulated around the Internet?  If they do; aren’t they in fact doing more harm than good?

Over the years, while blasting away at the government, I have received emails from some of these theorists what Osama bin Laden and other terrorists have to say should be respected and I get the feeling they want me to side with him.  Even Rosie O’Donnell stated on ‘The View’, “do not fear the terrorists…they are mothers and fathers” and I found that reprehensible.  Was she trying to humanize or imprint some form of humanity on those who chose to dehumanize the victims of 9/11?  Is she trying to humanize those who will continue in their cult like fashion to take the lives of innocent human beings?

Whether you’re al Qaeda, Hammas, the Irish Republican Army or any other terrorist organization, if you kill another human being, you are not deserving of any act of human kindness.  In watching the broadcasts of people jumping out of the Twin Towers to their deaths, do not ask me to feel any compassion when it comes to terrorists.  They deserve none.  Yes as a society we should give any detainee due process as we give due process to serial killers. But, I do think our compassion should and must go to the innocents they killed. 

After writing my last piece on 9/11, I was told by an editor of an alternative news site, Watch LOOSE CHANGE... you're not equipped to form a conclusion based on your personal opinion, Mary.  This is how I take that statement is that I am allowed an opinion if I do believe in these conspiracy theories.  If I challenge those that believe them, I am told I am not allowed any personal opinion.  I do believe I am allowed this differing opinion based upon what I have read, viewed and the information relayed to me by my source at Controlled Demolitions Incorporated. 

While an admirer of the Loizeaux family for many years I have not allowed this admiration to influence my writing on this topic, but only their experience. In reading their site you will read that their family has been imploding buildings now for fifty years.  They have successfully imploded buildings saving their clients the monetary costs that come with taking any building down.  Yes, they are experts when it comes to comparing how a building does down and if it was done by controlled demolition.  So, when my source tells me that both Twin Towers and Building 7 were not brought down by a controlled demolition, I do believe this person’s expert opinion instead of the producers of ‘Loose Change’.  The producers of that movie have no experience in engineering, explosives and demolitions.

To confront the beliefs of those that choose to believe 9/11 was done by the government, I have been digging into a site called,Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy theories and Controlled Demolition Myths, and from what I have come to understand is that this web site both logically and rationally challenge the beliefs of conspiracy theorists.The other day, I watched a three hour video which takes apart that movie that conspiracy theorists hold up like a Bible of sorts called, ‘Loose Change’ piece by piece by piece.  Yes, I sat there for three hours with an open mind and it angers me that some will give these producers reverence and will look to disparage the reputation of the Loizeaux family.

 

In my previous article on this topic, I wrote of ‘Loose Change’ based upon an Alternet.org article, “the making of ‘Loose Change’ as he stated, “Loose Change" happened by accident. The whole thing started out as a fictional screenplay about me and Dylan and another friend of ours finding out 9/11 was an inside job. It started out as a comedic action film with us being chased by the FBI and all that.”

Am I to believe people who produced this movie namely, Dylan Avery, Korey Rowe and Jason Bermas over the expert opinion by my source at Controlled Demolitions Incorporated?  The answer is no.

While I choose not to name the editor of that alternative news site who told me to watch ‘Loose Change’ she did mention it within an editorial.  She also wrote within that editorial, “At the very least shouldn’t you at least listen with an open mind when someone who has done the research has some information to share?” Normally, I would point to an article as a reference, but it was contained within a private email to me by this editor and to also protect her as a source of sorts, I will not divulge the name of her site.  Also, in addressing this editor, who asked those in her editorial to listen with an open mind, I would ask her to do the same as I have been researching confronting the very theories she supports.

Every one of these conspiracy theorists will tell you and the producers of the movie ‘Loose Change’ will tell you that Twin Tower One and Two along with Building 7 were controlled demolitions.  No, they were not.  Those buildings were so badly damaged that they fell in a free flow manner called pancaking.  The damage to Building 7 came from the debris of one of the towers assaulting it and it stood little chance of surviving.

Speaking of Building 7 in which the movie ‘Loose Change’ does not show you, please go to this link: http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm and you will see the devastation of the debris assault from one of the towers that was done to Building 7.  In fact, the ninth frame down is a video which clearly shows the fires raging within that building.  In controlled demolitions there are no fires only explosions.  This is what weakened that building so severely that it was only a matter of time before it came down.  In some conspiracy feeds, you will NOT see these images. You will only see Building 7 coming down which looks similar to a controlled demolition hiding behind other buildings.  Also, in conspiracy feeds, there is no sound as you will hear in this one.  What you are witnessing in viewing this feed is the death of that building.

Here is yet another feed explaining and showing the assault on Building 7 they will show how tons of debris coming from World Trade Center One.  In fact they state it “might have been a knife to the guts of World Trade Center 7”

One piece of testimony that the producers of ‘Loose Change’ will use of these buildings being set with explosives comes from a janitor that states he was in sub-level one of one of the Twin Towers.  His testimony was that he heard explosions. Those explosions can be extraneous sounds coming from any number of sources such as cables snapping but here is the crux of the matter; if they were controlled demolitions, he would not be alive to tell about it.

In this feed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ which was NOT a CDI (Controlled Demolitions Incorporated) project, you will clearly see how the building is first weakened throughout the structure through a series of timed and sequential blasts.  But, at the bottom is the major blast which takes down the building. Please tell me if any janitor at the bottom of the Twin Towers could live to tell about it.  The answer is no.  Also take note of the sounds coming from that structure as they are blowing it.  In the case of all of the towers, you did not hear anything like that.

 1  |  2

 

http://www.marymacelveen.com

I am a writer who currently writes pieces for my own blog http://www.marymacelveen.com I have been published by Buzzflash.com, Legitgov.org, TheLiberalPatriot.org and MikeHersh.com. I was a guest on the Jay Diamond Radio Show on WRKO in Boston and have appeared on CNN.  I have done numerous web broadcasts for sites such as RadioLeft.com, TVNewsLies.org and FranklySpeakingRadio.com.

 

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117 comments

x
Tony Forestx

Glad to see

you've decided to continue writing about this. Get ready for a thorough literary beating, my dear....that is, in case truth seekers (like me) are willing to spend their time on this. Loose Change is one of the worst choices. Me oh my.

I personally don't belong to any cult, except maybe the Harley cult and I don't even own one ....yet. I would never ever ever alienate you because you're such a good writer and we have a common friend named Geoff. 

You don't belong to a minority, Mary. The majority is still swallowing the official lies. But hey, I respect you for coming back out of the corner with your gloves on, fists in the air, ready to fight. 

If you're still hung up on Loose Change and the controlled demolition bit, well, you've a long way to go. There's more to it. A lot more.  

by Tony Forest (4 articles, 14 quicklinks, 131 diaries, 1216 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 2:29:04 AM
 


Peter Dearman is an English teacher living in Taiwan. He is concerned about depleted uranium, repression in Burma, stolen elections, organ harvesting, aspartame, sugar, species depletion, animal abuse, ocean pollution, helium depletion and the generally high level of bad things happening in the world today.
Peter DearmanPeter Dearman is an English teacher living in Taiwan. He is concerned about depleted uranium, repression in Burma, stolen elections, organ harvesting, aspartame, sugar, species depletion, animal abuse, ocean pollution, helium depletion and the generally high level of bad things happening in the world today.

outside the community...

"In speaking to so many people outside the Internet community, I did not find one who did believe that it was a grand conspiracy perpetrated by our government."

 Go figure. Where would a person 'outside the Internet community' ever come across information and reasoning any different from what the government decreed?

The fact is, the official version of events was determined before the official investigation began. They knew the conclusion they wanted to reach, and there are a thousand cases of them interpretting the evidence (what was left of it) with an obvious intention to back up their foregone conclusions.

The investigation was bad science. This is my opinion. Don't ask me to back it up please. I don't bother trying to add to the mass of 911 truth material, since so many others have done so. I just think you don't realize that your opinion is partly sculpted by your prejudice in believing that no cabal of conspirators could ever pull off such a heinous crime. But you believe Moslem fanatics could. Why the difference? 

by Peter Dearman (8 articles, 15 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 113 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 2:40:39 AM
 


x
Tony Forestx

But now

that we know how to bring buildings down with fire, the Loizeaux family and all other demolition specialists should be out of business. Your conclusion : it's easier and cheeper with fire. I wonder why nobody ever tried it before. I mean, it's so easy it's just mind boggling !

 

Fire !

by Tony Forest (4 articles, 14 quicklinks, 131 diaries, 1216 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 4:45:16 AM
 


Emodied as a male...the man with the world renowned ability to feel people ....from afar.Look for Mr. Robin Parsons @ www.Militarytimes.com/forum or http://ca.360.yahoo.com/mr.robinparsons
Mr. Robin ParsonsEmodied as a male...the man with the world renowned ability to feel people ....from afar.Look for Mr. Robin Parsons @ www.Militarytimes.com/forum or http://ca.360.yahoo.com/mr.robinparsons

Inconsistent consistencies

(I) Have no problem with the how those buildings came down, Fire was the operative force after the planes hit, but note that fire is NOT controlled demolishion.

 What gets me are all of the other little in-consitencies or consitencies that are there, the timing is such that the terrorists planned their stike at a time of near the LEAST occupation of the Building, last time they aimed for the most.

That Paper "Legacy for a New American Millienium" (Right title??) that decried the Need for a 'New Pearl Harbor' shortly thereafter(?) followed by 9/11.

The very idea that when the Second term of GWB (Go War Bush) was at election, all of a sudden Osama Bin is broadcasting news to America and telling Americans that it is 'up to them to decide' an internationally renowned terrorist who claims Absolute hatred of everything American is advocating Democracy...and that got swallowed whole...

 To many inconsistencies and too many consistencies, war for Oil in a Country that had been a sort of ally of the U.S. then one set upon by American Politics & Western media to the Point that any truth got lost long before the invasion. Then the set up in law as to ensure that the potential 'witness' is no longer capable of testimony as it was arranged to make it look 'nice and legal' while they got him hanged-murdered

Law of the Land (I) was told concering the U.S.'s signing of the Geneva Conventions on War, yet George had it violated, then backdated a law to cover they rear ends of all involved, method of a Dictator, law unto themselves...

To many other things, way to many murders ......waaaaaaay to sad.

by Mr. Robin Parsons (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 64 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 6:42:48 AM
 


Aimee L. Walker, Friday Harbor, Washington USA. A concerned citizen of the world. On her website, Data Options Travel Links, you will find links to worldwide travel destinations as well as climate change and energy projects worldwide.  Please visit http://www.dataoptions.com!
AimeeAimee L. Walker, Friday Harbor, Washington USA. A concerned citizen of the world. On her website, Data Options Travel Links, you will find links to worldwide travel destinations as well as climate change and energy projects worldwide.  Please visit http://www.dataoptions.com!

Keep your spotlight on 9/11

Hi Mary,

Keep your spotlight on 9/11.  As someone said "You don't belong to a minority, Mary. The majority is still swallowing the official lies."  But, they are waking up one by one thanks to the likes of you who are trying to debunk the "conspiracies" of it all.  The facts are in and those who have half a brain can see that 9/11 was an inside job.

So keep your spotlight on the 9/11 issue.  It helps to wake up the majority who are blindly believing their government.  Please see my web site http://www.dataoptions.com/political/911links.htm for many links to 9/11 facts.

Who knows perhaps we will see a nation-wide wake up! 

Aimee

DataOptions.com

 

by Aimee (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 113 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 7:55:33 AM
 


Kent State, Graduate work in philosophy of logic, of science, Ph.D. SIU neuroscientist, forensic neuropsychologist, PostDoc Medical College of Ohio, Preferred activities: Restoring British motorcycles, cars, Matchless, Austin Healey, Triumph, Jaguar, building an engine, programming a computer. Other stuff: SDS 1968, antiwar,911 truth advocate, anticorporatist, anti-classist, anti-neocon, pissed off. Best thing: Father. Blessed.
richardKent State, Graduate work in philosophy of logic, of science, Ph.D. SIU neuroscientist, forensic neuropsychologist, PostDoc Medical College of Ohio, Preferred activities: Restoring British motorcycles, cars, Matchless, Austin Healey, Triumph, Jaguar, building an engine, programming a computer. Other stuff: SDS 1968, antiwar,911 truth advocate, anticorporatist, anti-classist, anti-neocon, pissed off. Best thing: Father. Blessed.

Mary exhibits denial and delusion yet again.

Mary has real trouble with data. Here is an example of her lucid thought:

 

"Every one of these conspiracy theorists will tell you and the producers of the movie ‘Loose Change’ will tell you that Twin Tower One and Two along with Building 7 were controlled demolitions.  No, they were not.  Those buildings were so badly damaged that they fell in a free flow manner called pancaking.  The damage to Building 7 came from the debris of one of the towers assaulting it and it stood little chance of surviving."

 

Gee Golly Mary. I guess you didn't know your own NIST debunked FEMA's "Pancake" theory regarding the collapse of WTC 1,2,7 a long long time ago. I guess you didn't have the time to actually read documents from either source. Yet you state your position with such adamancy. Did you even consider WTC buildings 5 and 6 which were much much more severely damaged both by falling debrise and by intense fires (neither of which were present in WTC 7) yet they did not actually collapse at all... let alone in the controlled demolition manner of WTC 7:

 

"Observing the collapse of 47-story WTC 7 shows it to have all of the features of an implosion engineered by controlled demolition.

-The collapse of the main structure commences suddenly (several seconds after the penthouse falls).

-The building sinks in a precisely vertical manner into its footprint.

-Puffs of dust emerge from the building's facade early in the event.

-The collapse is total, producing a rubble pile only about three stories high.

-The main structure collapses totally in under 7 seconds, only about a second slower than it would take a brick dropped from the building's roof to reach the ground in a vacuum.

 

----------------

 

You really should expand your mind a bit. Try reading Griffin's Debunking 9/11 Debunking .....    

-------------

The reviewers not only make it clear that this is a book worth reading, but their statements are interesting in their own right.

 

“David Ray Griffin’s Debunking 9/11 Debunking is a superb compendium of the strong body of evidence showing the official U.S. Government story of what happened on September 11, 2001 to be almost certainly a monstrous series of lies. Tragically, the entire course of U.S. foreign and domestic policies since that date has grown out of these almost certain falsehoods. This single book could (and should) provide the basis for the United Nations? International Court of Justice, or some specially constituted global body (independent of the U.S.) to investigate with highest priority, and publicly report its findings about, the charge that unknown elements within the U.S. Government, and possibly some individuals elsewhere closely allied to the U.S., caused or contributed to causing the events of September 11 to happen.”---Bill Christison, former senior official of the CIA.

 

“Considering how the 9/11 tragedy has been used by the Bush administration to propel us into immoral wars again and again, I believe that David Ray Griffin's provocative questions about 9/11 deserve to be investigated and addressed.”—-Howard Zinn, author of A People’s History of the United States

 

"Professor Griffin is the nemesis of the 9/11 cover-up. This new book destroys the credibility of the NIST and Popular Mechanics reports and annihilates his critics."---Paul Craig Roberts, Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury during the Reagan administration

 

“David Ray Griffin hits another one out of the park by taking on the left gatekeepers and the mass media for the lies and cover-up called ‘the official story of 9/11/01,’ which is the greatest conspiracy theory ever perpetrated on the American public. I highly recommend this book for all thinking Americans.”---Meria Heller, Producer Host of the Meria Heller Show (www.meria.net).

------------------

The country is dividing between those who can't handle truth, those and those who seek the truth. 

 

Truth has always been the enemy of the statists, of the fascists, of the purveyors of lies and of war. Of the orchestrators of false flag operations to propagandize the populace into supporting wars of aggression. --- and, in the case of Afghanistan and Iraq (and soon Iran), Criminal Wars according to the standards noted at Nuremberg. 

 

The 9/11 Truth Revolution seeks the truth. Based on scientific investigation of empirical data. 

 

Supporters of the government's conspiracy theories and believers of government authorities and officials do not. Mary does not. 



by richard (0 articles, 4 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 744 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 8:43:20 AM
 


I swallowed the red pill!
HanI swallowed the red pill!

Even in the very first line you start insulting...

my intelligence. Way to go! Don't worry, I won't say anything about yours.

by Han (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 195 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 10:09:48 AM
 


A concerned composer from Austin
Matt KjeldsenA concerned composer from Austin

Deniers of Truth

The deniers of the Truth are always the same.  They use debunking sites instead of actual evidence to support their head in the sand reality.  A little point of interest for ya Mary.  Since neither NIST, nor the 911 cOmmission Report would even touch WTC 7, because the lie would've been too obvious, deniers such as yourself have to use assertion from tools to 'prove' their ridiculous fairy tale.

Here Mary--debunk this in your  next reality piece

9/11 Mysteries: Demolitions

or

Terror Storm

 

 I would love to see your (ir)rationalizations

 

by Matt Kjeldsen (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 6 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 10:14:05 AM
 


I am a chemist and able to contribute to the debate about thermite.
gravity32I am a chemist and able to contribute to the debate about thermite.

Simplistic analysis won't work

Mary, you are no doubt sincere but your all embracing remarks show your ignorance. You imply that the twin towers could not have been demolitions because demolitions don't smash windows all around. It is perfectly true that commercial demolitions do not smash windows all around, however this was not a commercial demolition.

And what about building 7? That did not smash windows so on what basis do you say it was not a demolition?

It is perfectly obvious to anyone who stops to think, and doesn't rashly rush to print, that the twin towers would have been brought down in a different manner to building 7. They had to be because the plan was to make it look like plane and fire damage, so the collapse had to start near the top. There was no plane involved with building 7 so it could be brought down from the bottom, just as in commercial demolitions, and that is just how it looked.

In a commercial demolition only minor damage is done through the height of the building and the collapse is initiated by destroying the supports near the bottom and gravity aids collapse. In the case of the twin towers however, starting near the top, there was not much mass and much more explosive would be needed. The effect of this extra explosive can be seen in the videos - have you not noticed how much material was flung out? Hundreds of thousands of lumps of concrete would have sprayed out all round. Windows would break. 

It all fits together when you give it a bit of thought. No matter how improbable the use of explosives seems, the rate of fall of the roofs of all three buildings, so close to free fall, can only be explained by accepting that the supports gave virtually no resistance.

Your continued use of arguments centred on the exaggerations of some activists, rather than on scientific studies, suggests that you have not yet bothered to read the peer reviewed work published in the Journal of 9/11 Studies. As an influencial person you have an obligation to use good work. I look forward to reading your comments after doing so.

 

by gravity32 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 151 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 10:23:41 AM
 


skeptical and unconventional in my views, I am worried about the US economy (specifically our debt and trade imbalance). I am financially conservative and socially liberal.More significantly though, I believe in accountability in government. And the biggest such issue is at the top - our executive branch. While Democrats and Liberals find many faults with this administration, Republicans and especially Conservatives should be especially grieved. My understanding of Conservative standards is that...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Michael Gillskeptical and unconventional in my views, I am worried about the US economy (specifically our debt and trade imbalance). I am financially conservative and socially liberal.More significantly though, I believe in accountability in government. And the biggest such issue is at the top - our executive branch. While Democrats and Liberals find many faults with this administration, Republicans and especially Conservatives should be especially grieved. My understanding of Conservative standards is that...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Janitor?

If you're referring to the video I think you are, then I must accuse your of being a bit disparaging of our witness. This guy was not a janitor. He was more of a manager of the building (probably one of a few) with keys to all floors. He'd been on the scene in '93. He was interesting and understandable. He reported hearing huge explosions BEFORE the aircraft ever hit the building. ... But perhaps that's not important...;-)

by Michael Gill (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 7 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 11:30:56 AM
 


A meteorologist by trade, I am an ardent Bush, Cheney and (general liar) detractor. When I'm relaxing, I love to camp and fish.
wxman2001A meteorologist by trade, I am an ardent Bush, Cheney and (general liar) detractor. When I'm relaxing, I love to camp and fish.

Your getting info from the wrong source

Asking someone at "controlled demolition' whether the buildings were brought down by explosives is like asking the Pope wherther or not he prays to God....you should know the answer in advance. CD was the company brought in after the buildings fell to clean up the site, bringing down the remains of the other buildings that were damaged much worse by the debris and subsequent fires...but did not come down. Try sending a video of WTC-7 coming down to a random selection of demolition experts in Europe for a response.... like others have done, and the consensus is much different. For all I know, CD was involved in setting the charges...remember, Silverstein has admitted wtc-7 was 'pulled' on TV; why shouldn't we believe the others were set up to be 'pulled' as well? (A process that takes much planning, and many days or weeks of setting charges precisely to work well) As a physicist, I can tell you that no buildings can come down vertically into their own footpirint at near free-fall speeds in ANY type of collapse, without some kind of demolition wave destroying the resistance of the steel and concrete floors below the collapse area; the resistance of the undamaged floors would slow and probably stop the collapse at some point. If you viewed "Loose Change" and/or other 9-11 films, they all show various reporters reporting multiple explosions occuring in the towers well before they came down, same witth the firefighters and citizens. How do you explain that?

Not to mention, the intial hole in the Pentagon only about 16 feet in diameter, and no large pieces of debris on the lawn in front; where did the rest of the plane go? The two 10 ton engines made of hardened steel at least should of made two additional holes on either side of where the body of the plane entered, even if you can believe that the rest of the wings vaporized instantly (which doesn't make scientific sense, anyway)  

Please go back and take another look at the EVIDENCE.  

 

 

by wxman2001 (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 10 diaries, 108 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 12:12:30 PM
 


x
Tony Forestx

the document you mention

is "Rebuilding America's Defenses" from "The Project for a New American Century", PNAC in short. If you feel comfortable with PDF files (many don't so I always give a short warning before linking to a PDF), the document can be found at

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

Actually, I'm glad you mentioned this doc and I suggest Mary read it front to back. I did. The overall concept of pulling US troops out of central Europe, Germany to be more specific, and relocated to strategic locations further east struck me as a complete shift in foreign politics. In a way, I see it as an act of agression toward Russia & China...at the expense of former Russian satellite countries such as Romania, Poland, the Czech Republic, and last but not least, Iraq. Add Syria, Iran and a few more and you've got just the area the PNAC document refers to. Reading the document, one also gets a good feeling for the Military Industrial Complex and the business of War.

by Tony Forest (4 articles, 14 quicklinks, 131 diaries, 1216 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 12:13:44 PM
 


x
Tony Forestx

this was supposed to be a reply

to RobinParsons' comment. Darned Software !

 

by Tony Forest (4 articles, 14 quicklinks, 131 diaries, 1216 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 12:16:01 PM
 


A meteorologist by trade, I am an ardent Bush, Cheney and (general liar) detractor. When I'm relaxing, I love to camp and fish.
wxman2001A meteorologist by trade, I am an ardent Bush, Cheney and (general liar) detractor. When I'm relaxing, I love to camp and fish.

some more info for Mary

You should also check out the website patriotsquestion911.com and see how many tin foil hats you see on these high ranking government and military officials, icluding pilots, faa controllers,  military ranks up to and including 'General' that are convinced it was an inside job. also see pilotsfor911truth.com (think thats right, dont have the link in this computer)

by wxman2001 (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 10 diaries, 108 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 12:19:44 PM
 


x
Tony Forestx

Was Bush democratically elected ?

"(But) is it possible that America's democratically elected government could be guilty of the worst crime in the nation's history – of participating in the wanton murder of thousands of its own citizens and the destruction of the national economy in order to advance some nefarious, secret agenda?"

(from an advert for Whistleblower Single Issue - September 2006)

Was Bush democratically elected ?

 

by Tony Forest (4 articles, 14 quicklinks, 131 diaries, 1216 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 12:36:57 PM
 


NT/Exchange Network Administrator
Aug. 2001- May 2002) - Norfolk, Virginia
Primary administrator responsible for maintaining the NAVSEA Shipyard Bridgehead NT/Exchange server configurations. Duties included, network analysis and overall network system operability for the NAVSEA Shipyard Corporate Network Operations Control Center (NSCN NOCC) located at the Norfolk Naval Shipyard. Tasked with the Navy's NAVSEA Shipyard Wide Area Network (WAN) monitoring while the 9-11 attacks was unde...

to see more of bio, click on member name

ChrisIXXIVeritasNT/Exchange Network Administrator
Aug. 2001- May 2002) - Norfolk, Virginia
Primary administrator responsible for maintaining the NAVSEA Shipyard Bridgehead NT/Exchange server configurations. Duties included, network analysis and overall network system operability for the NAVSEA Shipyard Corporate Network Operations Control Center (NSCN NOCC) located at the Norfolk Naval Shipyard. Tasked with the Navy's NAVSEA Shipyard Wide Area Network (WAN) monitoring while the 9-11 attacks was unde...

to see more of bio, click on member name

The Building implosion theory is fascinating, BUT!!!!

When in the company of like minded 9-11 truth seekers, yes it makes great conversation, but I personally beg fellow 9-11 truth seekers, to not speak of the building Implosion theories to "9-11 truth neophytes", most are easily confused and quickly become disinterested. I ask them to stick with the 9-11 truth issues we can prove with the evidence available from source such as Paul Thompson's Terror time line, Richard A. Clarke's book and from the documentary 9-11 press for truth, when truth seekers start the conversation with building implosions, they may as well be talking of lasers and flying saucers to new comers to the subject.
Ask yourself the question: Where is the proof that the New American Century's call for a 'catastrophic and catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbor' was only an unbelievably astounding and timely coincidence rather than a statement that should have raised reasonable suspicion? With pre-war intelligence investigations looming, if delved into correctly these investigations may bring many of these 9-11 truths into the light!

by ChrisIXXIVeritas (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 16 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 1:00:18 PM
 


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Tony Forestx

good point

I was just about to post a link to a very recent interview with Judy Wood. NOT a good idea in the company of the brainwashed.

by Tony Forest (4 articles, 14 quicklinks, 131 diaries, 1216 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 1:19:42 PM
 


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Tony Forestx

Pacifying disinformation

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm
(Fiction)


"A time comes when silence is betrayal."
- Martin Luther King

by Tony Forest (4 articles, 14 quicklinks, 131 diaries, 1216 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 1:50:23 PM
 


Retire high school English teacher. Grandmother of eight grandchildren, six of them Muslim. Love to travel. Have been to Russia, Spain, Morocco, Crete and Santorini, Cosumel and Chichen Itza. Alas, not enough places. However, the ocean anywhere satisfies the soul.
ChristieRetire high school English teacher. Grandmother of eight grandchildren, six of them Muslim. Love to travel. Have been to Russia, Spain, Morocco, Crete and Santorini, Cosumel and Chichen Itza. Alas, not enough places. However, the ocean anywhere satisfies the soul.

How We Were Duped

Please access this very informative site on how disinformation has been used to dupe us. Scroll past some glaring headlines to a very sober, convincing analysis.
http://www.oilempire.us/bogus.html#history
Excerpt:
9/11 was an inside job, but not all claims of complicity are real muddying the waters to discredit the 9/11 Truth Movement. A tactic similar to (if not part of) the Karl Rove strategy of promoting true material wrapped in a package of lies, such as the supposedly fake documents given to CBS News (see BS?) in September 2004 that had the accurate conclusion that Bush went AWOL from the National Guard. That smear alienated the rest of the media from looking at the story, which helped to ensure that the point spread between Kerry and Bush would be thin enough for vote fraud to tip the balance to Bush.

by Christie (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 149 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 2:30:34 PM
 


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Tony Forestx

Has anyone seen Mary ?

I like it when authors engage in the follow-up discussions. Anyhoo, PNAC and "Rebuilding America's Defenses" was mentioned above. Richard Perle was a member of PNAC. Was because it "was" and no longer "is" ; like any serious corporation, they've gone through a rebranding to protect the guilty....e.g. WorldCom / MCI / Verizon.

Perle; "Even if we cannot prove to the standard that we enjoy in our own civil society they are involved, we do know, for example, that Saddam Hussein has ties to Osama bin Laden. That can be documented."

He now denies having said this but it's on record, on video and factual.

http://uruknet.info/?p=m32660&s1=h1

A short note regarding Tenet's book "At the Center of the Storm" ......these guys are blaming each other for (letting) 9/11 (happen) and the illegal wars which followed. I'd like to see someone dig into this in an article. It looks to me as if the guilty are trying to come clean. Maybe some are more guilty than others. And by the way and on the go, Virgin Arilines has dropped Loose Change from their in-flight entertainment system. It's that bad. Or it's that serious or a Virgin fell from heaven ?

One more for the road ;

 

"Padilla Jurors: We're Not So Sure 9/11 Was A Terrorist Attack"

"A significant number of potential jurors in the Jose Padilla terrorism support case say they aren't sure who is responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks, many because they don't trust the news media or U.S. government pronouncements."



"There are too many ifs, too many things going on," one male juror said. "I don't know the whole story."

 

 

by Tony Forest (4 articles, 14 quicklinks, 131 diaries, 1216 comments) on Sunday, May 6, 2007 at 2:34:31 PM