You said "If Bin Laden is dead, as has been reported, then the various tapes that he is alleged to have made are all phony..."  and I've been thinking that since I posted her tape and some comments on DU.  She either had a slip of the tongue or she meant what she said.  If it was a slip, neither she nor the experiencned & professional Frost caught it.  There's a simple test.  Frost needs to be contacted and asked what he thinks.  This would not be conclusive, but why not do that?  

If he is dead, andn that's what the speculation has been even among some military folks, then you are right - the entire war on terror is in question.

More specifically, if he was dead prior to the Oct. 2004 tape, we have unassailable proof for everybody that the 2004 election was a farce. 

There are huge stakes here.  Excellent article.

by Michael Collins (130 articles, 20 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 484 comments [42 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Dec 31, 2007 at 4:53:28 PM

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You are correct...there is no reason to believe that she misspoke. For years, various sources have said Bin Laden was dead. Bhutto's is the most credible and visible. It has simply been in Bush's interest to keep Bin Laden alive in order to exploit the fear factor.

by Len Hart (134 articles, 175 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 555 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 1, 2008 at 4:33:04 AM

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thanks len. while others ignored or shrugged their shoulders over the discovery of the original video posted by al jazeera english, others like yourself are pursuing it. i came across the bbc edit yesterday, got all excited to post an article here only to find you were already on the case - great job.

now, let's keep pressing and force this into the mainstream. if it's not too late, can you go in and edit the end of your piece and offer the option for people to submit to their newspapers?

 If not, here is a link to a media guide.

Cheryl

Strike08

by Cheryl Biren-Wright (30 articles, 41 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 485 comments [8 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 1, 2008 at 6:31:11 AM

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Thanks...and that's a great idea. I will add a link to my original blog article. You may be interested in a "quick link" I posed just a few minutes ago. Seems that FOX news has likewise "censored" Bhutto's claims that Bin Laden is dead. There is simply no reason to believe she misspoke. Her comments are consistent with the increasingly obvious conclusion: tapes of bin Laden are fake. The war on terrorism is phony. In fact, FBI stats prove conclusively: terrorism is worse under GOP regimes. Without a "boogie man", the GOP was simply fall into a memory hole of its own devising.

by Len Hart (134 articles, 175 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 555 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 1, 2008 at 7:15:04 AM

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that Bush needed hidden. I read one article about her statement that OBL was dead and the writer had the most ridiculous statement. It said that she had mispoked and actually meant to say Daniel Pearl. Now, I can understand the average clueless American mispeaking like that as so many probably have no idea who Pearl was. BUT for a leader of her stature to mispeak like this is ridiculous. She of all people knew the differance between the two.

by shanti (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 43 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 1, 2008 at 12:11:04 PM

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There is, of course. no reason to believe that Benazir Bhutto ever misspoke and certainly not this time. Secondly, I am SO sure that people were constantly confusing Perle and Obama. How bloody ridiculous!!!

by Len Hart (134 articles, 175 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 555 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 1, 2008 at 2:30:50 PM

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There's a very good reason to believe that she misspoke. She was talking about the man that Omar Sheikh murdered. OSM did not murder OBL. She clearly misspoke. Omar Sheikh killed Daniel Pearl according to most accounts. She was probably referencing his murder, while thinking about bin Laden. We've all misspoken in such ways before.

She very clearly didn't mean to say bin Laden, because she says that he was murdered by Omar Sheikh. To believe this wasn't a slip of the tongue is to believe that Omar Sheikh killed bin Laden. That's clearly a misstatement. 

by Jeremy R. Hammond (42 articles, 0 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 86 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 1, 2008 at 9:42:52 PM

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<em>There's a very good reason to believe that she misspoke. She was talking about the man that Omar Sheikh murdered. OSM did not murder OBL. She clearly misspoke.</em>

That is pure supposition. Omar Sheikh may have murdered several people. And it is difficult to believe that someone who is articulate in every other instance would mistake two people as disparate in background, description, culture and apprearance as Osama Bin Ladin and Daniel Perle. The human mind associates SIMILAR things --not "objects" as disparate as Perle and Bin Laden. They nothing in common. And Bhutto would not, did not make that mistake.

There is only supposition to support the claim. There is not a single verifiable fact in support of it. There is more than enough disinformation about not just this even but the entire "war on terrorism". Clear thinking is needed. Jumping on somthing for no logical reason and no empirical evidence whatsoever is NOT clear thinking.

by Len Hart (134 articles, 175 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 555 comments) on Wednesday, Jan 2, 2008 at 4:08:04 AM

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i'm with you len. to state adamantly "She very clearly didn't mean to say bin Laden," is absurd. how would anyone know that? based on what? because he happened to kill someone else?

plus, it was said so clearly that at some point someone would have pointed that out to her and she would have issued a statement clarifying. she was a former prime minister of Pakistan, not some low level nobody.  that is way too important of a statement to not retract or address.

bottom line for me, though, is not whether bin Laden is dead or alive (though i do think he is dead - even my own child saw the last couple videos of him lined up with earlier ones and saw instantly it was not the same person). but, that aside, the issue really is the media response or lack thereof. to collectively ignore something like this is and make an effort to suppress it is deeply concerning. i saw the daniel pearle post somewhere else too. i also saw a post that said people asking about this are "insane." it's ignoring and looking the other way when something is presented to you that is so blatantly off that is pathological.

by Cheryl Biren-Wright (30 articles, 41 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 485 comments [8 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Wednesday, Jan 2, 2008 at 2:11:58 PM

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I agree Cheryl. I've even gone back to listen several times. Bhutto simply said what she meant. There was no pause to search for words, no hesitation. She stated a "fact" as she knew and understood it.

She would never has misstaken Perle for Bin Laden.

Initially, those promoting the "Bhutto misspoke" theory were also promoting the lie that Bhutto was killed as a result of the explosion. But the fact is the explosion occurred after the fatal shots had been fired. This was no terrorist attack. It was state sponsored murder.

by Len Hart (134 articles, 175 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 555 comments) on Thursday, Jan 3, 2008 at 2:20:42 AM

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