I have a simple solution that will negate any need for banning words at OpEd News.
If everyone who contributes to OpEd, either articles, or comments, voluntarily stops using purposefully inflammatory, ad hominem diatribe, then there will be no reason to make any rules whatsoever about language use.
In case you haven’t noticed, articles that use respectful language, and make points without ad hominem attacks, get more readers and garner better responses. You’ll get your point across to more people with more impact.
Republicans stoop to using inflammatory labels whenever they can (Islamofascist, Femi-Nazis, etc). I would hope that liberals, progressives, and even anarchists, can do better than that. The Republican discourse bar is not set very high.
Don’t tone down your anger, your points, or your frustration, but please try not to call people names, or use broad-brush labels that are meant to hurt people’s feelings. It won’t help your argument, and it won’t advance the discussion.
PS, These common sense rules of comity and civil discourse don’t apply to writing about Dick Cheney, who you are allowed to call anything you want (note for the humor impaired… that is meant to be a joke).
Dr. John Moffett is an active research neuroscientist in the Washington, DC area, who has published articles on the nervous and immune systems. Dr. Moffett is also the author and webmaster of the political opinion website www.Factinista.org, and is a Managing Editor at OpEdNews.com.
I could not agree with you more. The only thing is that I will never stop using every derogate word I can think of in statements I might make about Bush, Chaney, this administration, Congress on both sides of the aisle, Big Oil, Corporate America and blatant bigotry.
by
walley (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 109 comments)
on Thursday, August 30, 2007 at 10:20:52 AM
and wish I could edit some of my comments. Just today, I called someone insane for wanting to raise our taxes...and I meant it! But you're right. You're right! You're right!
I'll personally try to do better, but MAN! Did I mention I HATE taxes?
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sherry clark (24 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 64 comments)
on Thursday, August 30, 2007 at 11:38:15 AM
Dr. Moffet makes the best point possible at this moment in time! As I mentioned in previous commentaries, leave the vulgarity, hateful rhetoric & boneheaded mentality to the neo-con, super-patriot & fundamentalist web sights. And yes, there are plenty of them on the internet! I'd prefer to take these people on with higher intelligence, maturity, a good education & a touch of class. Think before you write & remember what Dr. Moffett said about being taken seriously!
by
iman (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 89 comments)
on Thursday, August 30, 2007 at 11:41:05 AM
Whenever I read an article I check two things: Level of Effort and Intentions. Level of effort is reflected in the way the article is original, different, special; you can see the actula effort of the writer. Intentions are reflected in the targets and humility present. The more objective the target is ( Cheney vs..almighty capitalism, for instance or our vices as people vs specific vices of some nation) the better. The less arrogant the article is ( as soon as the author recignizes that American people are the same as everyone else) the better are the intentions. If I see all that in a positive form I can forgive anything. I had noticed that people use all those hate words when one of the above fails: either LOE or Intentions are lousy. Pure quality control.
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Mark Sashine (46 articles, 19 quicklinks, 234 diaries, 3348 comments)
on Thursday, August 30, 2007 at 11:45:52 AM
I hate just really people who are so full of common sense as you! (Just kidding, kidding) But seriously, John, I don't have much of a vocabulary, it is the same one, give or take a few thousand words, I had at age 8, so could you cut me some slack? Please, oh, please oh, Pretty, Pretty Please!
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I admit it, the only things I love more than swearing, I am either no longer able to do, or look really clumsy trying to do them, especially with women less than half my age. (I am speaking here of mixed doubles in tennis or badminton.) But I will mightily make an effort, not to try any more to provoke the evil ones with naughty words, honest, you are right... sort of.
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Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1270 comments)
on Thursday, August 30, 2007 at 4:21:56 PM
Hey John, I just tried to Digg your column, but I think I should not have, because now it thinks we wrote the same column... I think. I just clicked on the Digg icon above your title, 'cause that's what I thought we were supposed to do. Well, any now you have a Digg!
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Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1270 comments)
on Thursday, August 30, 2007 at 4:28:11 PM
I have a feeling that, at this point, almost everyone, including the mindless troglodytes in the corporate media (somewhat deserved ad hominem humor) have begun to find the nasty nature of public discourse increasingly unpleasant, and non-productive.
It would be wonderful if the Limbaugh’s and the Hannity’s of the world lost their followings, and people turned to more and more to civil discourse on the internet.
It’s going to take time.
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John R Moffett (79 articles, 14 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 595 comments)
on Thursday, August 30, 2007 at 6:50:09 PM
there are places to do that. Since Rob writes and comments so regularly, I had assumed he (or a staffer) also read these articles before posting them.
Even if OpEd is just a bulletin board there should be SOME editorial function!! I mean hey- Rob! You ask for donations, I figure you should be doing your job.
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Laudyms (0 articles, 742 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 366 comments)
on Thursday, August 30, 2007 at 11:32:17 PM
...to see if I'm going to follow John's suggestions or curse you with a blue streak. Do I do my job? How many hours should I put in each day. I'd say I average 12-15, sometimes 17 or 18.
But I don't censor, and try to allow good writing and good ideas, even, if ocassionally laden with expletives, through.
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Rob Kall (739 articles, 3816 quicklinks, 318 diaries, 1591 comments)
on Friday, August 31, 2007 at 8:00:21 AM
Sounds like you want readers to help in this process, so how about telling us how you vet articles, who does it, if success has created a volume that's hard to handle etc.
Frankly, quality is much more important than language. An agreeable standard for quality is what we should be looking for.
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Laudyms (0 articles, 742 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 366 comments)
on Friday, August 31, 2007 at 2:41:44 PM
I have to agree with John ~ I much prefer leaving it up to us. This entire "banned words" debate got me thinking about a recent editorial decision (among OpEd Editors) regarding ad hominem attacks. We agreed not to allow them, and so remove comments (or specific words) in a comment.
That feels okay to me, but then I wonder how different that is from banning specific words. I agree with Rob that I don't want to see inflammatory words and ad hominem attacks on OpEd. We can go to Daily Kos or Democratic Underground, for that; or just turn on television.
But then free speech means just that, so maybe I was too conservative (restrictive, controlling) to vote for the removal of ad hominem attacks.
Another new policy tho does bother me - reducing the comment period to two weeks. I cannot read all articles of interest to me within their first two weeks of being posted - and sometimes people want to hear feedback, even if it's a month later.
A friend posted an excellent report on some work she had done, but some details and conclusions were confusing. Rather than raising those "criticisms" in a comment, several of us discussed her report with her, on a private list. It took us more than two weeks to clear up the confusion but by then none of us could comment on her report because the comment period had closed. I know she would welcome our (now informed) feedback.
These questions are fascinating and instructive to me - as a relatively new blogger (couple years). I've wholly enjoyed reading people's comments (altho I still haven't read ALL the ones on Rob's original post of this subject).
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Rady Ananda (88 articles, 226 quicklinks, 18 diaries, 628 comments)
on Friday, August 31, 2007 at 10:46:57 AM
...of my own words. I know that to some, it may not appear as such, especially given my love of "blue" words. My use of expletives is used as much for impact and making points as it is for anything else. Perhaps I could express myself a little less forcefully, but my style is my style, and I have worked over the years to get it where it is.
I have, though, held my tongue (or would it be better to say my evil typing fingers) on numerous occasions. Most notably, I have a nickname for the evil Ann Revolter that makes use of the "C" word. Anyone with a brain has probably just connected those dots...:)
However, I wouldn't use that here simply because it's an incredibly offensive word to women, and while I may be crass and vulgar, I am not disrespectful. I just don't feel it necessary to be gratuitously offensive. While some may find that hard to believe, it's true. There's a difference between using the word "fuck" in a gratuitous manner, and using it to prove a point.
There have also been statements I have made in both articles and comments that I edited out because to have left them would have been exceedingly rude and distasteful. This points up the need for more people here to edit themselves. After perusing the discussion about Rob's decision, it's painfully clear that some people really need to start using the internal editor. Not everything I think needs to be written out here, or spoken. I am an adult, after all.
I think that any good writer has his or her own personal line of decorum which they refuse to cross unless forced to by event and circumstance. So far, there really has been nothing here that has brought me to the point where I feel it necessary to cross that line. I have come close a few times, but always my better judgment tells me to just let it all go. After all, in ten years, none of what's happening now is going to mean dick!
Blessed be! Pappy
by
Pappy (61 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 863 comments)
on Saturday, September 1, 2007 at 1:30:49 AM
