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November 24, 2006 at 22:32:42

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Rebuttal to Arguments Against Impeachment

by Jodin Morey     Page 1 of 2 page(s)

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Arguments Against Bush Impeachment...
- If we impeach Bush, we'll get President Cheney!
Initiating the impeachment process will lead to an investigation that will implicate lots of people in the Bush administration who are guilty of committing crimes, including Cheney.

In addition, no matter who we get to replace Bush, we'll be showing those in power that anyone who breaks the law will be held accountable.

- Promoting impeachment will seem too "extreme."
Demanding that crimes be investigated is NOT extreme. Some previous impeachment attempts were considered extreme because they were pursued for actions that didn't rise to the level of a Constitutional crisis, which is what the impeachment tool is meant to be used for. Nixon's impeachment, however, was bipartisan.

- We should wait to impeach...
Wait to impeach? We've waited 3 or more years too long already. We had enough evidence to impeach years ago. Remember, an impeachment only means you have enough evidence to warrant a trial, just like an indictment. Our congress people didn't take an oath to bipartisanship. They took an oath to the Constitution. Besides which, our troops, Iraqi civilians, and our own civil liberties are all waiting for this.


- Before we impeach, we should get some legislation passed...
And with unconstitutional Presidential Signing Statements, veto power, and the power of "Commander in Chief" at his disposal, how do you think Congress is going to get ANYTHING accomplished without first impeaching Bush?

If your tire blows while you're driving, do you stop to fix it? Or do you continue driving on your rim because to stop would take too much time?

- It hurts the democracy to go through a presidential impeachment. And Bush is a lame duck anyway.
Holding government officials accountable for their actions strengthens our democracy. Letting lawlessness stand weakens it.

Sometimes reprimanding a child (president) doesn't make the family (Washington) a happy place. But you still have to do it so the child and his siblings (future presidents) learn about accountability. Impeachment is horribly UNDERUSED, which is part of why there's so much corruption at the top. Politicians must learn to fear it. People think things are better because we improved the make-up of our law-making body, Congress. But Bush is BREAKING LAWS. So, it doesn't matter how many laws Congress passes if they don't serve their OVERSIGHT duties as well by impeaching. They swore to defend the Constitution. What are laws without enforcement?

Besides, Bush can still do a lot of damage. Our troops, Iran, and our Supreme Court are all endangered so long as he remains in office. Waiting until Bush is out of office will leave us complicit in any further crimes he commits. The Union of Concerned Scientists has estimated that the death toll from a "tactical" nuclear weapon of the kind Bush is contemplating using in Iran would be at minimum 3 million men, women, and children. The path of death would stretch across country boundaries into India.

Perhaps worst of all, we set a terrible precedent by allowing Bush to stay in office after he's broken so many laws. Impeachment will stop future presidents from using Bush's actions as justification for even more lawbreaking and erosion of civil liberties.

- I'm a Democrat/Republican. If we support impeachment it will lower the chances of my party winning in 2008.
So, your party would rather win elections than do what's right for the country? I hope you're wrong. I also hope the public is willing to throw additional support to any party that holds our elected officials accountable for their actions.

- Impeachment will never happen. The Republicans will block it.
Well, all we need is a majority of support in the House. And 2/3rds vote in the Senate to remove Bush from office will happen once the evidence gets aired on CSPAN. The political pressure will become too great.

Today's impossibility is tomorrow's reality. Republican Congress members will realize that tying their political future to Bush reduces their chances of getting elected. Remember, one way or another, Bush is gone by 2009- but members of Congress may retain their offices beyond that date. Bush's poll numbers are extremely low, and most Americans support impeachment. This is a bipartisan movement. This means that if we make the pressure unbearable for Members of Congress, they'll turn on him to keep their own seats (like they did with Nixon). It's already starting to happen. While many Members of Congress have behaved unethically in the last few years, it's important to understand that this is related to their warped view of what's in their self-interest. Let's wake them up to their true self-interest (impeaching the president), by showing them our support for impeachment.

And even if we only impeach, and the Senate fails to do their duty and remove him from office, it will only implicate the Senators who fail to do their sworn Constitutional duty.

- But Speaker of the House Pelosi said that Impeachment was "off the table."
Pelosi most likely said this to remove any appearance of conflict-of-interest that would arise if she were thrust into the presidency as a result of the coming impeachment. What we need to do is to pressure Pelosi not to interfere with impeachment maneuverings within her party. Sending her Do-It-Yourself impeachments legitimizes her when she joins the impeachment movement in the future.

- But the public doesn't support impeachment.
Newsalert: Newsweek's recent poll shows 51% support for Impeachment. Not to mention that support for Bush's impeachment is more than it was before Nixon's investigation.

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Impeach Bush.

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Jodin Don't wait for your legislatures, Impeach Bush directly....YOURSELF!! ImpeachForPeace.org

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The light is not only dawning in Americans' consciousness ..

... it is beginning to shine like a powerful spotlight on the crimes of this administration. I thank Jodin for this great Rebuttal to Arguments Against Impeachment. It reflects the growing movement all over this country to pressure for impeachment NOW. It's everywhere. It's in the air. We ARE a nation of laws, and now we're going to force the powers that be to ENFORCE those laws! When I first wrote my own 'rebuttal' of sorts in OpEdNews http://www.opednews.com/author/author245.html, I took a lot of flack. But now people are beginning to see that NOT to IMMEDIATELY impeach AND prosecute these insane criminal international marauders is not only dangerous to the world and to us in America, but tantamount to our public ASSENT and CONSENT to their continuing MASS-MURDER-FOR-PROFIT, which is what this war on and occupation of Iraq clearly is. As Jodin says quite succinctly, we have to change this flat tire RIGHT NOW. He/she (sorry) is absolutely correct! To believe that a Democrat controlled House and Senate will get anything actually done with Bush in power is just nuts. We have to not only stop the killing immediately, but remove this 'decider' from a position of goal tender. This guy didn't veto anything the Republicans sent him, because they sent him exactly what HE wanted: the looting of America to fund their evilness, tools to kill dissent, and absolution from prosecution... and they've gotten that in spades from the Republicans and the corporate profiteers. What's to guarantee that these corrupt, now whiney, Republican legislators will, by some miracle, begin to act like "representatives" of the People who hired them, or cooperate in the undoing of all they have wrought - or to restore all they have stolen - including our supposedly sacred Constitutional rights?? It's doubtful. And you can bet this shameless, indifferent and power-hungry maniac of an "appointee" in the White House will have that veto stamp waiting to pound it onto most any Democrat legislation that undoes the damage, they have wrought on this country and humanity - or decreases their profits or power. He and Cheney have to go...and NOW. They have LOOTED this country's treasury (the sweat of the American People) and practically deciminated civil society, for personal gain. They've used our Treasury as their own personal ATM. This radical, right-wing Ayn Randian minority believes they are the giver of all things economic and social, and that they can take what they want and kill as they please. They depend on a huge supply of ignorant, desperate serfs who feel powerless to stand up to them, and who must step-and-fetch-it for their very survival. That the Republicans have historically UNDERFUNDED EDUCATION is no ACCIDENT. There is no other way to guarantee servitude. And make no mistake! "SMALLER GOVERNMENT" means a government, OF, BY and FOR the PEOPle would be too underfunded, too understaffed and grossly ill-equipped (investigators, police, courts, jails) TO STOP OR PROSECUTE THEIR CRIMES. Stop the killing now! Stop the looting now! As Jodin says -- send the clear and strong message that legislators should always FEAR impeachment and jail...eventually. FOR THE UNITED STATES: IMPEACHMENT IS A PROCESS THAT TAKES THE POWER BACK BY THE PEOPLE, AND WRITES THEIR CRIMES INTO HISTORY. IT ACTUALLY PRESERVES OUR DEMOCRACY. FOR THE WORLD: IMPEACHMENT SAYS, "WE'RE SORRY!" We CAN handle it, we DO want it... and we're going to have it! PS: Remember: capitol offenses have NO statute of limitations. They can be prosecuted even after they leave office. So make your hotel reservations in The Hague at the first possible moment.

by Lucille Moyer (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 8 comments) on Saturday, Nov 25, 2006 at 3:36:05 PM

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Chapter 48. Conyers's Cop-out

== Chapter 48. Conyers's Cop-out == By Larry W. Bryant [Author's Note: "We have no choice but to declare openly our belief in universal human rights and [to] demand the immediate impeachment of George W. Bush and Richard Cheney and a full accounting of those in their administration." -- Peter Phillips, director of Project Censored ( http://www.projectcensored.org ) (Nov. 8, 2006). One of the several persons on hand for the Washington Area Impeachment Meet-up group's meeting on Nov. 14, 2006, happens to be a businessman from Maryland. This man, first-named Richard, also happens to have designed a trailer-mounted impeachment billboard, which he occasionally tows around to various anti-Bush-Cheney events in the National Capital Region. Richard prefers that megapresence of his Impeachmobile over the tedium of IMPEACH HIM-button selling. Whatever -- the point being that we all have something to contribute to this grassroots effort to hold the B-C junta accountable and to render its last two years powerless to inflict further damage upon the U. S. government's image/function at home and abroad. In that latter role, we probably can't count on any active support from cop-out artists like Speaker-to-be Nancy Pelosi and House Judiciary Committee member John Conyers, Jr. With his Nov. 15, 2006, form letter to critics of his about-face stance on impeachment, Conyers joins the ranks of those leaders selling out to political expediency. His letter begins by gloating over the Democrats' regaining control of Congress. Then, in a gush of paternalism worthy of Republican emulation, he announces: "We need to put aside any thought of anger or payback." (Tell that, John, to the families of fallen servicemembers victimized by the fraud called Iraqnam.) In the interests of party unity, he continues: "I have agreed with Speaker-to-be Pelosi that impeachment is off the table." Well, how about the interests of the American people in never again having single-party rule in our nation? Conyers's letter's focusing on the need for regaining Democrat control of the White House in '08 undermines the people's No. 1 priority: bringing our anger-fueled justice to bear upon the current despoilers of that institution. Continue to ignore our will at your own risk, congressman. NOTE: This just in from my very own congressman, James P. Moran (D.-Va.) -- a form letter sent to me via e-mail on Nov. 17, 2006, part of which reads: "I thank you for registering your support for initiating impeachment proceedings against President George Bush. I was an early opponent of the war in Iraq and have opposed many of the policies proposed by President Bush. While not all issues break along partisan lines, it has been fairly clear that the current Republican majority in Congress has deferred completely to the President and has been unwilling to exercise its oversight responsibilities. I have full confidence that the next Congress with a new Democratic majority will operate very differently and will use its newly gained subpoena authority to investigate the Bush administration. I am a cosponsor of the resolution introduced by Rep. John Conyers (H. Res. 635) to create a select committee to investigate misconduct on the part of the Bush administration and to report on possible impeachable offenses. While I support an inquiry into misconduct, I do not believe the next Congress should recklessly proceed with impeachment proceedings. President Bush is not the first chief executive to mislead or deceive the public. Our nation has had its share of unethical chief executives and even some outright crooks. Many have lied and deceived the public. Moreover, not every unethical or even criminal act constitutes an impeachable offense." To which I would respond: Why doesn't Moran consider Bush's flat-out admission that he'd acted in contravention of the FISA presurveillance requirements (a felony punishable by a 5-year prison sentence) as constituting an "impeachable offense"?] SCHMOE: Say, guys: is it true that Rep. John "Toe the Line" Konyers plans to buy some ranch land in Paraguay? -- Heh, heh . . .. CHEEZEY: Might be. You know that he's incurred the wrath of such traitors as Larry W. Bryant -- because of siding with Nancy Peeloser's dictum that we no longer have to worry about being impeached. TROVE: Uh-huh. Bryant's hoping that Konyers's cop-out will backfire and ignite a storm of protest and renewed activism against the status quo. What a worthless dreamer. Too bad we can't find a place for HIM, right away, in the boondocks of Paraguay. [Turning to Gen. Al Walbomb, the group's latest Guest of the Day.] Can you arrange for that little transfer, Al? WALBOMB: Well, as soon as Dr. Bob Grapes wins confirmation of his appointment as the new SecDef, I'll look into it, Karl. He and I go way back to the early days of the Iran-Contra scandal, so he'll be able to help us on such -- shall we say? -- delicate matters. BU$CH: Go ahead and include Jerry Pippin on your hit list, Al. With those two outa the picture, it'll be relatively smooth sailin' for us to survive any more talk of impeachment. WALBOMB: Things might move even faster were Bob to withdraw from the nomination, and were y'all to settle on me for the position. How about that? SCHMOE: We'll of course let you know as soon as that occurs. Right now, you need to stay on as NSA chief until at least the time we get Congress to bail us out on the warrantless-wiretapping rap. How did the O' Club there at Meade fare during that horrendous fire on post? WALBOMB: It was unaffected. But, ya know, we could use some renovation there, especially in the plumbing and lighting systems. The Wives Club has scheduled some great events for Christmas, and a no-bid contract with Cheezeyburton's affiliate in Baltimore would do wonders for our members' morale, between now and New Year's. CHEEZEY: No problem on that, Al. Always happy to oblige the active-duty folks. BU$CH: Agreed. Just let us know what else you need over the next few months as we prepare for Iran-Nam. WALBOMB: Okay, Dubya. Thanks for all of y'all's support here. Now, I, uh, see that we've run over time this morning, and I've got an appointment at CIA headquarters at 10:30. So, I'll head on over there right now [donning his flight jacket and picking up his brief case]. CHEEZEY [holding a pretzel stick as if it were a cigar]: All right, Al. Drive carefully -- I heard there was another tractor-trailer chemical spill on the Beltway near the G. W. Parkway, so you'd better hustle. [As Walbomb departs the Oral Orifice, the White(wash) House's Fearless Foursome resumes its deliberations upon the republic's more pressing issues.] CHEEZEY: Why don't we go ahead and expedite awarding Walbomb his permanent third star? That way, he'd have a better chance at being confirmed if Grapes pulls out or gets rejected by the Senate. BU$CH [yawning]: Okay by me. It's great to have true patriots like Al at our side. We're really gonna need 'im when Iran-Nam kicks in gear. I'd like to have an update briefing on that timetable -- say, some time next week. Can do, Tony? SCHMOE [drumming two fingers on his laptop]: Absolutely. Let's start our session at least an hour earlier that day. I'll get back to you all this afternoon as to the exact date and time. [With that, the Always-on-the-Case Team adjourns for an hour's prelunch respite in the W-H executive hot tub.] http://www.bushbusiness.com/impeachment%20news.htm http://www.PetitionOnline.com/gjprobe/petition.html http://www.PetitionOnline.com/nmgrand/petition.html http://www.PetitionOnline.com/arrest/petition.html http://www.waifllc.org larryB@jerrypippin.com

by LarryWBryant (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 58 comments) on Saturday, Nov 25, 2006 at 8:00:24 PM

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Rebuttal to Arguments Against Impeachment

In my view, this author has not dealt with the fundamental questions of impeachment, whether the Bush Administration's actions constitute impeachable offenses. I view the Bush Adminstration as a politically inept and morally bankrupt government. The main actions of the Bush Administration: 1), politicization of religion, 2), unremitting enmity to scientific inquiry and divorce of common sense from policy formulation; 3), GW Bush's personal racism and his willingness to inject it into policy and, perhaps most significantly, 4), the Bush Admininistration's hijacking of our efforts to pursue a global and multi-lateral war on terror and converting it into a spending orgy on behalf of the military-industrial complex and a futile, optional war against the Arabs would each one be a signal failure. The combination of these and other actions by the Bush Administration make them a failure and villains of historical proportions. Yet I feel the question must still be asked as to whether their actions are impeachable offenses. Article II Section four of the constitution states: "The President, Vice President and all civil oficers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." So far impeachments have been initiated to investigate "high Crimes and Misdemeanors." Clearly an impeachment against Bush would also fall into this category. One could argue quite persuasively, that the past impeachments represented political actions more than prosecutions for high Crimes. Even so the impeachment managers in the previous actions needed specific crimes with which to charge the President involved. In Johnson's impeachment, the President was charged with violation of the Tenure in Office Act and acquitted, the tenure in office act was later repealed and is considered an unconstitutional infringment by Congress onto an Executive Branch function. Clinton was impeached for perjury and acquitted, no other legal action was taken. From the constitutional language and from the precedents an official must be charged with violating a particular law to be impeached. Bad judgement, incompetence and even immorality -properly- are not impeachable offenses. Bush's conduct in office has been terrible and he has been repudiated by the American people. His power has been reduced to the institutional powers of the Presidency. Bush has squandered his political capital and his legacy will be quagmires in two Asian wars and debts. It is very frustrating to me that Bush remains in office, yet he is the President until 2009 and, unless he violates a specific law, is legally required to discharge his duties. I oppose impeachment proceedings. This opposition does not stem from shortsightedness, unwillingness to take on hard issues or tolerance for Bush Administration incompetence and immorality. My opposition to impeachment stems partly from the lack of clear legal violations. But more importantly, my opposition to impeachment stems from my sense of Bush's irrelevancy in the next phase of this story. After of six years of monumental incompetence, twelve years of attacks on the moral and ethical foundations of public service and retreat from responsibility for the domestic obligations of government, we need healing. The time has come for Americans to reach out to one another, to look beyond the divisive past and into the future which we will all share. The Democrats, the left and people of good will should use this time to devise new strategies for dealing with our common problems and form new alliances and coalitions to implement them. Advocating impeachment is merely another symptom of the mass psychosis that George W. Bush has inflicted upon us. Let's get past the pathological manifestations that typify George W. Bush and all his policies and move on. Robert Chapman Lansing, New York

by rob Chapman (2 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 9 comments) on Sunday, Nov 26, 2006 at 11:04:36 AM

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Reply: Evidence...

I'll address your main critique. That I didn't address why to impeach Bush. I didn't address this because as a nation, I believe this has become so obvious that I was choosing to address the other fear based justifications we use to avoid doing the right thing. While the list of crimes are probably too long for any one person to address, here is a partial list including truck loads of evidence: http://impeachforpeace.org/evidence/

by Jodin (14 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 9 comments) on Sunday, Nov 26, 2006 at 5:25:19 PM

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Impeachment!! We have what it takes, to do it

I certainly appreciate seeing this line of persuasion pursued. Jodin's article offers a point by point convincer that impeachment is not only in order, but constitutes a pressing concern of the highest importance. Bush will attempt to carry the war on - and as it begins to appear, now, with the connivance of the new congress - for the remaining two years of his term if he is allowed to remain in office. It is already the longest war in American history, and certainly the war with the least justification. The party and cabal that keeps it in motion MUST BE BROUGHT DOWN. Impeachment can be effectuated with a single provable instance of deliberate and knowing breakage of the law. In his above appended note, Jodin indicates and provides the evidential proof for five such instances. All it takes is a single one, a single conviction.

by Irvthom (7 articles, 2 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 91 comments) on Monday, Nov 27, 2006 at 2:47:48 PM

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