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February 27, 2008 at 15:45:50

Ralph's Nadir

by Gabby Hayes     Page 1 of 1 page(s)

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What troubles me about Ralph Nader's argument that he had no effect on the 2000 and 2004 elections is that if an industry spokesman presented to Nader arguments as thin as the ones he uses to justify his presence in the race, he would shred those arguments to molecules. He has to know he is deluded--and that is a contradiction in terms. If you know you are deluded, then you aren't deluded. The only way I could believe that he believes what he is saying is if he suffered some sort of organic injury--a stroke or korsakoff's syndrome or organic brain syndrome. But these things would have spectacular effects on other areas--he'd slur his speech or be aphasic or claim to be Napoleon returned from Trafalmadore on a UFO. Serious brain injury wouldn't limit itself to a single line of argument about a single event, and his arguments wouldn't be so artful, either.

Therefore, something or someone is motivating him to argue not only speciously and self-destructively and in such a naked way that anyone of good sense can see through it. (I have to believe that if Nader truly wanted to fool us, he could do so in such a way that it would convince us.) So his line of argument may actually be a cry for help. Like a hostage trying to send a message without his captor guessing that he's being revealed, Nader is saying nonsensical things in order to make us realize that something is wrong, that he is speaking under duress.

Are you old enough to remember that General Motors hired private detectives in an attempt to discover any embarrassing secrets that could be used to shut him up about car safety in general and the Corvair in particular? It was a huge scandal at the time and (if memory serves me well) I recall that GM at first denied it, then apologized for it. But they never said they didn't find anything on him.

He's still single, I believe. Even in the early 60s it seemed suspicious that he had no known intimate relationships. Most of us who drew the rational conclusion shrugged. What difference would it possibly make if he were gay? Would that make the Corvair safe? Would that make safety belts useless or airbags a silly expense?

But now I wonder--would Nader have drawn that conclusion? It might make a big difference to him. And it might be being used against him. Possibly there are other issues in play--maybe he isn't gay but has some more embarrassing predilection. I wouldn't care,  but a man who's kept it a secret for over half a century would probably care.

I have read that during the 2004 campaign, Nader's campaign coffers were swelled with Republican money. So we can draw the conclusion that there is a direct connection between his presidential aspirations and the GOP. He couldn't have been ignorant that he was being supported by the GOP. I simply reject any scenario that uses that as a supporting argument. Following the money is Nader's main skill.

It is interesting is that the GOP has cash to put into a desperation play like this in 2008. Nader's candidacy might actually do more harm to the GOP than to the Democratic Party by bleeding it of necessary funds. Nader's appeal dropped significantly between 2000 and 2004 and I suspect that there will be a powerful backlash against his run this year, resulting in Nader's having an insignificant dent in the vote. I suspect that by summer, he'll be an asterisk and his name may only be on the ballots in a handful of states.

 

http://gabbyhayesplace.blogspot.com

Adherent to the cowboy way, eschewer of four-letter words and dental care, founder of the hippie movement, and failed prospector, Gabby Hayes can be counted upon to point and say, "They went thataway," and to develop plans to cut them off at the pass.

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6 comments

Having lived six decades now, I've had a lot of experiences! Grew up in a family often oppressed because of our faith - we stood for peace and against war, and for the rights of all regardless of ethnic background. Active from youth in peace and civil rights. Vietnam-era draft resister. Worked for a while for peace and social justice groups, and then became a civil servant. Felt a call to a consistent life ethic, and am currently serving as President of Consistent Life. All this is out of Chr...

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Bill SamuelHaving lived six decades now, I've had a lot of experiences! Grew up in a family often oppressed because of our faith - we stood for peace and against war, and for the rights of all regardless of ethnic background. Active from youth in peace and civil rights. Vietnam-era draft resister. Worked for a while for peace and social justice groups, and then became a civil servant. Felt a call to a consistent life ethic, and am currently serving as President of Consistent Life. All this is out of Chr...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Oh brother!

Again it looks like the editors are asleep.  This is just ad hominen attack.  There is no evidence whatsoever.  Nader does in fact provide rational arguments against the attacks that he is just a spoiler.

Nader does in fact stand for some things quite different from what the establishment candidates stand for.  Does Gabby Hayes just want us to vote to protect the militarist, corporatist establishment?  Why do we need to have that idea promoted on a supposedly alternative news source when all of the MSM is publishing that every day? 

by Bill Samuel (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 228 comments) on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 at 7:43:12 PM
 


Just a plain working person that is sick of the lies and our ego driven complacency about those lies.
arlen custerJust a plain working person that is sick of the lies and our ego driven complacency about those lies.

Good question Bill

Good question Bill. I guess that not many people can accept the FACT that the Dem's could have stopped Bush at any point, but haven't.

by arlen custer (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 222 comments) on Thursday, February 28, 2008 at 8:44:05 AM
 


I live on an island off the coast of Maine. Political junkie of liberal persuasion.
I have long been a registered Independent and now am a member of the Maine Green Independent Party.

Widower, grandfather of two, retired.

Jack HarringtonI live on an island off the coast of Maine. Political junkie of liberal persuasion.
I have long been a registered Independent and now am a member of the Maine Green Independent Party.

Widower, grandfather of two, retired.

Nadir

Superficial, specious, ad hominem.

BTW-has anyone suggested you visit the FEC site to see that the Republican donors sent about 100 times the money to Democratic candidates as they did to Nader?  Can you explain that?  Can you explain why no Democrat has attempted to explain that? 

by Jack Harrington (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 274 comments) on Thursday, February 28, 2008 at 1:46:35 PM
 


Adherent to the cowboy way, eschewer of four-letter words and dental care, founder of the hippie movement, and failed prospector, Gabby Hayes can be counted upon to point and say, "They went thataway," and to develop plans to cut them off at the pass.
gabby hayesAdherent to the cowboy way, eschewer of four-letter words and dental care, founder of the hippie movement, and failed prospector, Gabby Hayes can be counted upon to point and say, "They went thataway," and to develop plans to cut them off at the pass.

1, 2, 3

I urge you to buy a dictionary and look up "ad hominem." It doesn't mean to trace the motivations of a person who does something irrational over and over.

Republicans are disgusted with their party and will send money to support democrats because they know that the GOP is corrupt to the soles of its Bruno Maglis, infested with closet cases and child molesters, and seems determined to undermine and eliminate the constitution and the system of checks and balances.

I note that while you did not like the conclusions I drew, you were unable to challenge a single fact or the logic that led to my conclusions. In the real world, that constitutes a concession.  I am grateful for your conceding that I am correct, however much you don't like it, and I hope that in the future you will simply accept that I am never wrong.

 

by gabby hayes (9 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 17 comments) on Saturday, March 1, 2008 at 12:06:43 PM
 


Adherent to the cowboy way, eschewer of four-letter words and dental care, founder of the hippie movement, and failed prospector, Gabby Hayes can be counted upon to point and say, "They went thataway," and to develop plans to cut them off at the pass.
gabby hayesAdherent to the cowboy way, eschewer of four-letter words and dental care, founder of the hippie movement, and failed prospector, Gabby Hayes can be counted upon to point and say, "They went thataway," and to develop plans to cut them off at the pass.

apology accepted

I never ask to discover where the concession is coming from. You can't support your argument, having tried twice, and that's fine with me. Come back when you have the facts and have put some time into thinking about them and I'll be glad to argue you into another concession. But, of course, if you grasped the facts--or even the meaning of the words you've used--you would already agree with me. I graciously accept your second concession. I congratulate you on your wise choice to give up without a fight. It's a clear admission that you have not merely lost, but you know that you can't win. It demonstrates that you have a firm grip on reality.

by gabby hayes (9 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 17 comments) on Sunday, March 9, 2008 at 11:05:14 AM
 

 

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