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Tag(s): 9-11; Fear; History; History; Hitler; Internet; Oil; Oppression; Other; People; (more...) People; Protest (less...)
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April 6, 2008 at 12:55:53

Promoted to column top on 4/6/08:
A Morning After

by eric harger Page 1 of 1 page(s)

www.opednews.com

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I'm not holding my breath but maybe I am waiting to exhale.

Two scenarios at the end of this year confront me with equal increduality. I just cannot believe, Bush/Chenney being the two-headed monster of murderous criminality, that they will just leave office peacefully. Nor can I shake my naivite that such brazen siezing of power could occur under our sleeping noses. I think most of us has been completely shocked at the crimes this dynamic duo have committed, yet most of us must admit, we might have suspected yet just quite didn't see it coming in the magnitude that it did when it did.

Pondering the possiblities, my gut feeling is there will be a pretext to martial law. Yes, the Bushes have held a long and bloody role in world history, surviving wether in power or out. The '34 Wall St. Coup, bankrolling Hitler and Auschwitz, the CIA , assasinaiting Kennedy, Vietnam, Nixon and Operation Condor. Either in office or pupet master above offfice.

This time it feels different though. Escape doors in Paraguay. Private armies and private prisons. No Habeus Corpus. Presidential Directive to control all branches of the government. The Mussellini-esque goose stepping of the Supreme Court. 9-11 inside job. Utter contempt and disregard for law and the Constitition. War for industry. War for oil. War for profit and war for endless hate.

The Bush family has a long history of support for dictatorships so why should this time, why with so much criminal conduct ripe for exposure, why would they just walk away and leave themselves open for prosecution? My gut says they won't.

Now if two or three or thousands other fear this disaster looming, question is, what would be a course ahead under such a police state dictatorship? I mean, one far worse than the one we already have. How would we, not just survive, but what would bring back the avenues of justice, democracy and peace?

Obviously, with moron professors like John Yoo opining that Bush alone is the law unto himself, no legal recourse following such a coup, would in fact be legal. So If King Bush has paved the legal brick road to monarchy, then any discourse here could in fact be twisted to read seditous. Of course the opposite is the truth, that any illegal and unConstitional siezure of power would require opposition from the citizenry.

But Bush has an endgame for the system of checks and balances and this time we could not look within the system for self restoral. Similarly I would have little faith in external rescue. A hobby horse UN, a ghost of a World Court and a huge gallery of victimized nations to view our implosion with grim satisfaction.

One of the feasome components, one Dick's probably counting on, is the vehicle of fear-mongering they might foist upon us to justify the evil that they would do. Wether a collapse of the financial system, depression, fake terrorist attack, agricultural or natural disaster, we the people will have to live and function within this land of diminished capacity and that's with Adolph Bush watching our every move. What hope for the future would we be able to give our childre?. Will we indeed be able to feed and shelter our children?

I am aware that I am postulating discussion of response to a hypothetical illegal coup by Bush. As the coup itself would be an illegal act, action taken in opposition would not only be legal but obligatory. Up yours Yoo. But having been said, I soap-box to others who might fear a coup-a-coming, that we must look to history in not repeating mistakes in similar situations of the past. From Lenin to Mugabe, violent reaction to violent power will become itself, a violent repressor with a new name.

So, if Bush pulls another false-flag attack on the US, declares martial law and siezes all branches of the government, suspending the Constition, what then are we going to do about it?

I feel we must then look to the example of MLK, of Ghandi and though I'm not a christian, to the peaceful protests of the man Jesus. No power on earth, no matter the violence or threat, can sustain, if everyone, everyone just sat down and went on strike. Period. No work of any kind, no other action of any kind required.

Power extends only from the ability to control. All control evaporates in the face of complete non-violent refusal to be controlled. Peaceful non-violent protest is not just a consideration for when and if Bush pulls a coup, it should be the flavor of the day, today, tomorrow and every day leading up to when and if Pumpkin Head declares himself, Head Turnip.

I was proud to be part of the 2004 Republican Convention protests and the 2004 half million who protested the war at the White House, but what has happented to us since? Too many of us have relaxed our vigilance, playing the waiting game till Bush's term expires. Well, what if it never expires? Are we going to be able to orginze again, under oppression, under threat of police state tacticts and no internet or other alternative forms of media? We should be continueing non-violent protest en masse right up to and until it's Bush's time to leave office and if he doesn't leave office, we can be right there, geared up, fired up and urging others not to take it anymore. Shut the mother down.

So I keep my fingers crossed and refuse to believe, at least on the surface, that Thing One and Thing Two, won't peacefully leave office and cease to be a threat to all that is living. But I wonder what worries me most, that they might be scheming evil plots unhatching, or that I don't have a plan B if they do.

ex news photog, ex chef, current airline mechanic and amatuer historian. commercial licensed pilot,competent sailor, liberal activist, confirmed tree hugger.

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15 comments

56 years on this jumpin' green sphere. Musician. Own and operate a music store to help kids find a possible life long friend. I believe in the soul and the search. Happily married w/ 2 boys. Published songwriter. play bass, piano and gut string guitar. there are no solutions..only alternatives. Ask questions. Listen. Be fair and don't expect. Baseball is a mirror. Don't ask....unless you have time and a sense of humor. Peace is never easy, but worth it. Always.
mikel paul56 years on this jumpin' green sphere. Musician. Own and operate a music store to help kids find a possible life long friend. I believe in the soul and the search. Happily married w/ 2 boys. Published songwriter. play bass, piano and gut string guitar. there are no solutions..only alternatives. Ask questions. Listen. Be fair and don't expect. Baseball is a mirror. Don't ask....unless you have time and a sense of humor. Peace is never easy, but worth it. Always.

What a ? !

If Bush declares martial law and declares himself president for life, what then? Are we prepared for this?

I ask that too. Plan B. Better have a C and a D.

Get out of debt. Store food and wawa, link with neighbors for this. Community commuity, community.

We are not prepared.

If it happens, we will find this out. Quickly.

It is scary eric. We will figure it out. But, if in fact the incident occurs, it will bring to us instantly the reality of what our forefathers warned us about.

We will learn how not to be lazy.

Welcome to OpEd. Good f'in question. No good answer.

peace

by mikel paul (10 articles, 1 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 396 comments) on Sunday, April 6, 2008 at 1:45:20 PM

Wolfie

The Endgame

Welcome to the land of the paranoid. We have our nightmare laid out before us. We will do what is necessary to keep ourselves , family and friends well and alive.

We will use our intelligence. We are not alone. We know there are those who seek our happiness in many countries across the world. We will know that September 11, 2001 was a planned maneuver. We will be enlightened.

Hitler and Moussilini were stifled by those who understood. We will be a hundred times more alert and impowered by the truth. We will not let Cindy, nor Sibel, and Morgan down at the nadir of our battle.

It will not matter if you are Christian, Jew, or Moslem. It will not matter if you are brown, black, white, or yellow. The devisiveness of the Ruling Class will end and we will be all in the same frame of mind.

Bring it on!

Wolfie is being all that he can be.

by Wolfie (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 32 diaries, 1189 comments) on Sunday, April 6, 2008 at 2:14:17 PM

wolfie...

I like your bring it on. What will be will be.

peace

by mikel paul (10 articles, 1 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 396 comments) on Sunday, April 6, 2008 at 3:58:54 PM

Wolfie

mikel

the die is cast? no! the movie we all are viewing in real time has yet to be played out. the ball of course is in their court (a little march madness-speak). we will defend by expecting some conventional ball control maneuvers by shaq cheney and kobe bush. let us out hustle them by calling them all the trash talk we have been hearing from their bench (supreme or not).

wolfie is listenin' to ya

by Wolfie (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 32 diaries, 1189 comments) on Sunday, April 6, 2008 at 5:11:20 PM

Undergraduate degree in political science and philosophy: summa cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa; with postgraduate work in political economics. Postgraduate degree is a juris doctorate. I am a voracious reader and, although I make no claim to expertise, have self studied in logic, linguistics, theology, theoretical physics, macroeconomics, technical and fundamental market analysis, world history, and many other subjects, which I believed at the time helped explain the world around me.

...

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W.M.L.Undergraduate degree in political science and philosophy: summa cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa; with postgraduate work in political economics. Postgraduate degree is a juris doctorate. I am a voracious reader and, although I make no claim to expertise, have self studied in logic, linguistics, theology, theoretical physics, macroeconomics, technical and fundamental market analysis, world history, and many other subjects, which I believed at the time helped explain the world around me.

...

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REMEMBER WHEN..............

Clinton was President, and there were paranoid claims that he would declare martial law and never hold another election? Is that not called "projection" in psychology? In other words, since we are capable of doing it to you; in fact planning on doing it to you, you must be planning on doing it to us. I have always thought this was the biggest "tell" that the Bush regime ever gave us.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 330 comments) on Sunday, April 6, 2008 at 5:56:20 PM

Stanimal is ???

I hear cries for freedom elsewhere, while the US becomes less so. I hear support for free markets, then demanding a bailout due to incompetence.
I roll my eyes at those that accuse others being oppressed while the US has and still continues to the same and much worse. Laughing at pinheads who purchase and profit from those they curse.

Every time I return to visit I see a country I no longer recognize. A shredded Constitution, a spineless Congress ...

to see more of bio, click on member name
StanimalStanimal is ???

I hear cries for freedom elsewhere, while the US becomes less so. I hear support for free markets, then demanding a bailout due to incompetence.
I roll my eyes at those that accuse others being oppressed while the US has and still continues to the same and much worse. Laughing at pinheads who purchase and profit from those they curse.

Every time I return to visit I see a country I no longer recognize. A shredded Constitution, a spineless Congress ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Before Marshall Law is declared,

I would expect the government demand citizens either register all their firearms or turn them in. The 3 day waiting period is the pre-registration policy. The day guns are not displayed in stores, will be a sign that Martial Law will be implemented shortly thereafter.

The survivalists will most likely be the first people rounded up, as they would try to cause the greatest chaos. The public being "good citizens", will be thankful it wasn't them. Next will be the vocal opponents, and with the "War on Terror" really being a crusade against Islam, and just like the mindset of WWII about the Japanese-American citizen. People of M.E. decent or a practicing Muslim will be paraded off, with the remaining public thankful it wasn't them. The cull will continue till only those who will do the labor required of the NWO is established.

By monitoring credit card purchases, cell phone and e-mail communications, a footprint file has been created of all activities we engage in. Combine this with credit, criminal, car and marriage registrations, medical and work histories, provides a composite picture for anyone with a drivers license and social security number for authorities is complete. Along with fingerprints, retinal scans and RFID encrypted chips, to positively identify you, and with much of this information already instantaneously available for authorities.

Include all the security cameras monitoring public and private places or roadways and a real time picture of your location is possibly recorded.

When Martial Law is declared, I sense that water and electricity will be cut off and roads blocked, with fuel supplies restricted. This will give authorities containment power of the public, as they move through the populace to rout-out those on remaining pre-assigned lists.

Those now empty FEMA camps are for a reason, to serve as detention of the undesirables the authorities think most of us to be. Unless your a labor or medical asset and willing to go along with the agenda, it would be doubtful that sustaining your life will be a priority for them.

Now, if only the Bu$h cabal can continue with its diabolical plot to attack Iran to foment WWIII. With their claims of another 9/11 happening, it would not surprise me if another calamity is done before the elections in November to provide them the excuse.

by Stanimal (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 18 diaries, 493 comments) on Sunday, April 6, 2008 at 6:59:34 PM

A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.
W. Christopher Epler (Bill)A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.

civil war

Absolutely no question. It would start a civil war. Freedom is another word for nothing to lose. Behind the talk, talk, talk, there's a volcano of limitless rage. Do you think we would "do nothing"? When hell freezes over.

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (232 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 541 comments) on Sunday, April 6, 2008 at 11:46:53 PM

I'm reviving a science fiction magazine that was killed by the economy (well, the printer) in the early '90s, and the first issue seems to have turned into a political forum. I affiliate myself with no political party because all of them seem to be quite full of it, and of themselves. My biggest activism is the TRUTH, whatever it may be. Sometimes it's ugly, but that doesn't mean it should be buried.
Cyd WattsI'm reviving a science fiction magazine that was killed by the economy (well, the printer) in the early '90s, and the first issue seems to have turned into a political forum. I affiliate myself with no political party because all of them seem to be quite full of it, and of themselves. My biggest activism is the TRUTH, whatever it may be. Sometimes it's ugly, but that doesn't mean it should be buried.

Baaaaaa

Have you been paying attention to your neighbors?

Sure, there are forums like this all over the internet. That's great, but it's entirely virtual.

I know a lot of really intelligent people, the sort of people who are to bright to think Mensa means anything. A shocking majority of them are completely complacent. Sure, a few of them are ready to hunker down or head for the hills, but the vast majority are convinced that things are as they always have been, and will continue to be that way forever.

Just because we few are bright enough to see the writing on the walls, and just because the majority of those on this forum see that, does not mean that there is any kind of a real majority out there; most Americans (I hate to say this because I have always been patriotic, but the truth will out) are sheep.

Remember the poem from WWII byMartin Niemoller:

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

And remember, in many respects they have already put in place their first steps towards Martial Law, such as the Patriot Act and Homeland Security.

All we can really do is be individually prepared.

by Cyd Watts (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 at 9:42:17 AM

American Expat in Asia
pftAmerican Expat in Asia

The Right Wing Conspiracy

Actually, the game is over, our tax dollars have built up a very efficient police state to protect us from terrorism, which will protect them from you. The Luciferian Millenium after 6000 years of Adonay worship has begun. Jesus was born on September 11, Lucifer will now give us a New Age and New World Order that started from September 11, 2001.

It's interesting, but in my search to find out what is behind this conspiracy following 9/11, and it is a conspiracy, I realized there was an enormous amount of right wing paranoia that feared a Communist conspiracy would take over America and the world, that has existed for over 50 years, starting with McCarthy, who sought to root out the Communists that had infiltrated government and our society. The right of course believed this plot was a liberal conspiracy among those on the left, the Democrats they believed were crypto-socialists. And you know what, they were right. These same people deny conspiracy is possible today, thinking they have turned the tables, not knowing they have been deceived.

But it is too simple to call it a Right Wing Conspiracy, since Democrats are in on it too. Basically, we have a one party system that intends to follow the track we are on.

What happened?

The Left Wing Global Communists (thesis) and the Right Wing American Capitalists (antithesis) synthesized to become Global Fascists while still pretending to be a Democracy. There is no longer any difference between left and right except over those issues they use to divide and rule us.

Social Welfare Spendthrift Democrats (thesis) and Fiscally Conservative (but want a strong military) Republicans (antithesis) have synthesized to become Corporate Welfare MIC Neo-liberal economic spendthrifts, wearing a blue or a red hat, and have no fears of collapsing the dollar since thats what they want to do so we can go to a global currency.

The American System of Protectionism and Fair Trade (thesis) and the British System of Protectionism and Free Trade (antithesis) have synthesized into Anglo-American Free Trade Globalization which has exported your jobs to Communist China.

The Christian Right Moral Majority (thesis) and the Godless Free Choice Sex Perverted Leftists (antithesis) has synthesized to a crypto - Luciferian Christian Israelism that kills babies in Iraq and Gaza and terrorize other men in the bathroom with their tapping feet , while still calling themselves a Christian nation.

So this is what we are now .

The future does not look good, I must say. For those on the train who look forward to the next station, you might be in for a surprise.

by pft (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 466 comments) on Monday, April 7, 2008 at 12:08:43 AM

I am a college graduate, a loyal patriot of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, a person whose convictions and pessimism drive my thought invoking others to think, and enjoy some politcal debate. I like truth even if it doesn't set you "free" in this US of A any longer. I am a liberal.
I do a bit of painting mostly in Acrylic. I do a bit of poetry writng mostly inspired by tragic thought. I do a ton of reading, mostly online. I speak straightforwardly and don't plan on changing. It's wor...

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shirley reeseI am a college graduate, a loyal patriot of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, a person whose convictions and pessimism drive my thought invoking others to think, and enjoy some politcal debate. I like truth even if it doesn't set you "free" in this US of A any longer. I am a liberal.
I do a bit of painting mostly in Acrylic. I do a bit of poetry writng mostly inspired by tragic thought. I do a ton of reading, mostly online. I speak straightforwardly and don't plan on changing. It's wor...

to see more of bio, click on member name

be willing to give your life

There will be gun sweeps. Gun shops will be paid to stop selling guns and thus, they will be rewarded for removal of that merchandise. One will have to go to work, and return swiftly home before curfew. In fact, most will welcome leaving their homes as their residences will be watched non-stop by contracting military personnel. If you travel, you will be severely searched and guarded. All the residential and commercial locations will have extreme surveillance both equipment and human. Many already do.

There will be a "Happening" I am convinced, so that we can become fraidy- cats and give up the few rights we have left. I agree with your article and have been suspect of this since 2006 when Bush pushed all the Acts through--3 weeks before an election. 240,000,000 of us think the country is headed in the wrong direction. Can we take 'em? heh heh.

You have the right to wipe.

We fenced ourselves in ya know.

by shirley reese (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 316 comments) on Monday, April 7, 2008 at 2:15:46 PM

I am concerned about bring peace and prosperity to everyone in the world. I am concerned that people with too much power and wealth tend to be oppressive toward those who do not. I think the best policy is a balanced one. Balance comes when opportunity and motivation meet compassion.
im4unityI am concerned about bring peace and prosperity to everyone in the world. I am concerned that people with too much power and wealth tend to be oppressive toward those who do not. I think the best policy is a balanced one. Balance comes when opportunity and motivation meet compassion.

No doubt - you need to read this!!

Well, it seems completely unreasonable that a regime that has worked so long to acquire this much power would just walk away, saying "Boy, we shure dun a gud job didn't we Bubba?" Oh no! This "thing," that happens to have "W" out front right now, has been increasing its power for at least 50-60 years, and they've played their cards exactly right to take over ALL the wealth and ALL the power in the good ole U.S. of A. Now, they have it under control, and there's virtually nothing we can do about it, because they "own" the money, the military (including Blackwater) the monetary system and the media. The rest of us are just the necessary numbers they've needed to keep pumping taxes in, and fighting their money/power-driven wars.

Interestingly, what few people seem to realize is how closely the Clintons fit into this controlling "family." You see, they MUST get Hitlary to be the Democratic nominee. That way, they continue in power regardless of which, Hitlary or poor-old-worn-out John, is "elected." Watch closely to see who they choose as John's VP. That will be your clue as to who the next president will really be. And, of course, if Barack happens to win, then that's gonna throw a little kink in their plans, temporarily, but just until they can get rid of him by whatever means necessary. Oh yeah folks, its all carefully planned, and has been for a long, long time, and they're not about to give it up easily. Don't take my word for it. Just look at history, and what's really going on now. (Of course, you can't get either from the controlled media. You're gonna have to dig a little.)

Now, all we need is more information about the "mother-of-all compounds" that they're setting up in Paraguay, where they will live out their kingly years after somebody else picks up the pieces of what's left of the U.S.A.

Is that so hard to understand? Not if you've been following closely.

So, yeah, there might be a revolution. But what chance would it have for success?

by im4unity (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 52 comments) on Monday, April 7, 2008 at 6:12:35 PM

Bia Winter is an Artist/Writer from Maine,
and has been an activist and letter-writer since the 60's.
In 2004 she received the Roger Baldwin Award from the Maine American Civil Liberties Union for furthering Democracy after she got a Resolution Against the USA"Patriot"Act passed in her small home town of Mount Vernon, by overwhelming show-of-hands vote at Town Meeting. She continues to Write, Activate and Cartoon for Progressive causes. Her Letters are often seen in the Baltimore Ch...

to see more of bio, click on member name
Bia WinterBia Winter is an Artist/Writer from Maine,
and has been an activist and letter-writer since the 60's.
In 2004 she received the Roger Baldwin Award from the Maine American Civil Liberties Union for furthering Democracy after she got a Resolution Against the USA"Patriot"Act passed in her small home town of Mount Vernon, by overwhelming show-of-hands vote at Town Meeting. She continues to Write, Activate and Cartoon for Progressive causes. Her Letters are often seen in the Baltimore Ch...

to see more of bio, click on member name

"Watch carefully who becomes their VP"

Funny you should mention this:

Yesterday, upon the speculation in the "News" that McSame might pick Condesleeza as his VP, I had a little mental soap-opera movie go through my head, where they win (or, more likely, Steal) the election and THEN:

Laura finally dumps Dubya, and he marries his long-time concubine Condi, McSame kicks the bucket (from age or OTHERWISE) and VOILA!

the Bush Dynasty goes on!

by Bia Winter (1 articles, 2 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 169 comments) on Tuesday, April 8, 2008 at 6:21:07 AM

a "Coup a-coming"?

......You must mean, the REST of the Coup they've already started!

by Bia Winter (1 articles, 2 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 169 comments) on Tuesday, April 8, 2008 at 6:05:01 AM

I have worked as Union Electrician in a good part of this land. And the Union Brothers taught me well about how things should work
Michael DeweyI have worked as Union Electrician in a good part of this land. And the Union Brothers taught me well about how things should work

Blackout

Everyone knows Electricity runs America. In a second it could go out again, like August of 2003. Though I doubt all the lights would go out. Truckers may even have another wobble? If he does declare marshel law... he may even goes as far as to put some mark on people to be able to buy and sell. Lets just wait these troubled times out. For as Arlo sings in "In Times Like These," These Times will Pass in Times to Come."

http://my.care2.com/leoburg

by Michael Dewey (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 187 comments) on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 at 10:13:44 AM

Graduated Class of 1965, Hueneme High in Southern California, when I feel there was a large split in society between those for the status quo and those for a better world. I also have 5 plus years of university units with no degree. Activism and politics entered my life just before Bush I. I am a single mother (never married) of 2 adult daughters (ages 38 and 31) one a brittle diabetic since age 4 requiring a life altering amount of hospitalizations for 12 years. I presently live in the Lagun...

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ljsGraduated Class of 1965, Hueneme High in Southern California, when I feel there was a large split in society between those for the status quo and those for a better world. I also have 5 plus years of university units with no degree. Activism and politics entered my life just before Bush I. I am a single mother (never married) of 2 adult daughters (ages 38 and 31) one a brittle diabetic since age 4 requiring a life altering amount of hospitalizations for 12 years. I presently live in the Lagun...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Tomorrow

Tomorrow is just your future yesterday. That is part of the theme song for Craig Ferguson late night talk funny guy from Scotland.

I know a bunch of ex-GIs and civilians who fully intent to "do something" if martial law gets imposed on us. They tend, however, to have a knee jerk reaction at first though and that is what worries me. That is why I feel someone who knows how to handle ex-GIs knee jerk reaction needs to funnel that into the end goal these ex-GIs will calmly say they want now. They truly do fight for the Constitution and the freedom that brings and not for some puppet-head President. They know the Constitution protects their loved ones and not just guns and military prowess. There needs to be a Plan B and Plan C and Plan D. You can see the puppet-head and his minions Plan A for we the providers of the money they thirst for and steal so greedily. Remember the 4 part plan to take down a country that has been used by these crooks. We have watched it unfold here. I think I am beyond being scared anymore. It sure was frightening to see that scary story being told before the first election was stolen now become reality. And, then a boomer can think back to when Kennedy was killed and the lies on TV and what the revolutionaries were saying would happen to this USA if we did not stop them and here and now it is becoming full frontal. And, the cures now were being given as the cures then. Get out of the city, get that garden growing and learn to live from scratch off the grid. (Ever wish there was a spell checker on this site?.! I am so dependent on a spellchecker.)

by ljs (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 55 comments) on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 at 12:21:24 PM