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December 29, 2007 at 18:09:57

Headlined on 12/29/07:
Those Prospering Pastors--When To Say No

by Dennis Diehl     Page 1 of 2 page(s)

www.opednews.com

 
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There is little on the planet more disgusting and infuriating than the in your face prosperity of Televangelists, Christian College Executives, Healing Hedonists and Mega-Church Ministers. I see it locally here when a pastor type comes into visit the sick with a gold ring on each finger, gold watch, gold necklace and dressed to kill. Of course, they always carry a dog eared Bible to send the correct message when the lay it up on the counter for all to see.

Recently the self appointed Apostle of the Restored Church of God in Wadsworth, Ohio has given his clarion call sermon for the faithful to cash in what they can, including equity in homes, retirement funds and property resources and "send it here!" Time is short you know, and the minister has a great work to do on behalf of the people. He just needs the bucks. Of course, this formula is a disaster waiting to happen, so we'll see. He's not asking for a mere 1, 2 or 3 thousand either. How about 10, 20, 50 or 100 thousand is more what the Pastor has in mind. It's actually quite sickening. But self appointed Gurus, Pastors, Apostles and Watchmen get to do such things without much oversight. They seem to know the members won't question it, and if they do, there are plenty of scriptures to make them feel faithless for doing so.

And now we have another declaring...

"Jesus Died So We Could Be Rich! Declares Biblical Expert and Best Selling Author Dr. Norman Robertson Believes U.S. Investigation on Mega-Church Pastors is Unjust Because God Wants Us to Be Rich

So there you have it. Jesus died so you could be rich. God runs a huge pyramid scheme so you can be rich evidently. Evidently God's plan falls a bit short of reality for the vast majority on the planet, but it's good to know he has this plan for us all. Perhaps the "We" for Dr. Norman Robertson are just pastors who pull this stunt on the faithful.

Of course, no Jesus died so you could be physically rich. If that is so, then he should have save his breath as the plan failed miserable anyway. However, the Jesus of these types of Pastors may well have died so they could prosper, which they have very well.

Let's be reminded of what the average member of a congregation, where a pastor is asking or even demanding their money needs to remember.

1. Never loan money to someone who announces to you that they are "a good Christian." You'll probably never see it again.

2. Never allow a good Christian to give you something and "we can work it out later." You might find you have lost your home and three of your children.

3. Never give a church or minister what you have not got! No use of credit cards to help the church and no taking out of personal loans for the group or local minister, no matter how much you are told "the church" will pay your right back. They won't and make you feel badly for ever asking to be paid back.

4. Never will your property and resources to your church, unless you have absolutely no one else on the planet to share it with. It is not worth it and it is impossible to undue. Many Churches want members to include the church and make some promise to share with surviving children etc. Don't do it! People change churches, circumstances and affiliations change over a lifetime and you will have hell to pay in trying to straighten it all out and your survivors never will. Churches I know have left the children of members swinging in the wind with no seeming conscience about the the whole thing.

5. Never give what you have not got. One more time. Never give what you have not got.

6. Never offer to pay for things for the minister, his home or his family that you cannot afford. A man that would allow you to do such a thing should be avoided as a pastor anyway. If the church can't pay him an adequate salary, don't offer to make up the differences. It never ends and encourages the minister to not do his part when he could.

7. Be sure that any offer to give freely or at a discount to the church or pastor is YOUR idea first and you have not been goaded, guilted or suggested into it. "Yes I can help," or "No, I can't afford it," go a long way in keeping you out of these weeds.

There are also reasons NOT to give to a Church.

1. Don't give when the motivation is "time is short" so you may as well help the church

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Dennis Diehl is a former pastor of 26 years,  who outgrew the Literalism of Fundamentalism.  He writes about Pastoral and Church abuse and is available to speak on such topics or be helpful to any church suffering under abusive religion or pastors. 

 

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7 comments

I'm a free thinking liberal democrat who is very frustrated at the apathy of the American people. Knowledge is power, and I am thankful that there are many who take the time to write thoughtful and informative articles. .
Athena88I'm a free thinking liberal democrat who is very frustrated at the apathy of the American people. Knowledge is power, and I am thankful that there are many who take the time to write thoughtful and informative articles. .

Another way of tithing 10@

I think a different way of tithing would be to give the government 10% of our income, and have entitlements for all residents of the US guaranteeing shelter, food, clothing, medical care and education, plus making the government the employer of last resort.

Get rid of all the charities that help only a select few and change the rules so that this democracy is really for the people, by the people and of the people.

We do not need to reinvent the wheel, FDR came up with a lot of programs that employed people and and brought us out of the depression.

As I see it, many of us pay income taxes only to see the money go for war (especially under a Republican administration).

 Money allocated for social programs is constantly being cut, making us give additional monies to make sure that people in need  are helped and many fall through the cracks. 

 Plus people are being taxed twice, once by the government and another by churches and charities.

Surely, there must be a better way than depending on charity to help those in need.  We discovered that during the depression.  This is the time when entitlement programs started and should be reinstated.  (programs such as welfare, job training, employment opportunities, etc.)

Athena

 

by Athena88 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 22 comments) on Sunday, December 30, 2007 at 8:32:07 AM
 


electronic technician, truth seeker
Bob Gormleyelectronic technician, truth seeker

My Pet Peeve

The mandatory 10% giving of your income was always one of my pet peeves.

My understanding of the gospel of Jesus is not about money at all.

In fact there is a verse that says "You cannot serve God and mammon (money)".

My understanding is that you give not under compulsion, but give out of

love and compassion.

These modern day televangelists are nothing but hucksters that prey upon the inate goodness of people who cannot afford the 10% or whatever

the televangelists are demanding.

Another biblical verse: "Those that seek to get rich in this world fall into

a trap". It's not about money people! It's a trap! Remember this when your

pastor comes decked out in gold and the slick hairstyle. Another quote by

Jesus: "Sell all you positions and come follow me." Is the pastor/preacher

doing this? You don't buy people's souls with money! It is an inner awakening that stirs a person to do right.

Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Schuller are all false prophets, beware! They

preach another gospel other than the Gospel of Jesus.

Another verse : "I do not mean to cast a burden upon you". Jesus does

not want to cast financial burdens upon us. Gee... with the average person

paying 40% in taxes and another 10% requested for tithing thats 50% of your income. I don't know about you I hate paying taxes for supporting the

death of 1million Iraqis and 4000 american soldiers. And I despise paying 10% of my income for the lavish lifestyles of the televangelists.

I suggest following the advice of Jesus: "Do not use the world to the

fullest, but be not a full participant of this evil system".

Live simple lives, and stop feeding the monster.

Give because you want to give.

Give because the Holy Spirit prompts you to give.

Don't give out of compulsion or guilt.

Free yourself. 

 

 

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 927 comments) on Sunday, December 30, 2007 at 11:39:36 AM
 


Aging bleeding heart liberal who continues to believe in justice and the goodness of some people. I always have hope in a better fairer tomorrow. I do not understand the greed motivation,but I know it is seductive and pervasive.
cluelessflAging bleeding heart liberal who continues to believe in justice and the goodness of some people. I always have hope in a better fairer tomorrow. I do not understand the greed motivation,but I know it is seductive and pervasive.

Oh Yeah of Little Faith!

Oh Yea of little faith. That is how I see all the people who are sucked in by the snake oil salesmen of religion. They have so little faith in God that they think they can buy their way into heaven, by placing their money in the hands of a charlatan.  God has no use for money and the people who hoard it. All these good Christians do not understand the concept of unconditional love. He Gave His only Son that all men and women may be saved by his words. Help your fellow man by direct help. Feed the homeless ,give clothes and shelter to the poor who have no material wealth, what ever the reason. They are God's people too. If you feel the need to give your money to a just cause that gives it to the one's who need it,  look around and find the organizations that do not flaunt material wealth in the face of the needy. It may require a little work and effort but you can do it if you try. Get involved in community affairs and personally see that the physical needs of your fellow man are met and then  you can rest in the knowledge that your are doing God's work as he meant. Not sending off checks and going into debt to feed some fake Christian Bible thumpers ego. Exercise your faith with real action. Do as Jesus instructed . If you have money or time give it where it counts. Give aid and comfort to those  who need it and you will make the Lord Proud to know you! And make yourself an instrument of His Peace everyday. That is the goal we should all strive for. Step out of your comfort zone and embrace the world and all Gods' people. I know this is simplistic but who said it has to be so  complex. Jesus spoke for and to the common man not the well healed and sophisticated . Reclaim your faith!

by cluelessfl (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 184 comments) on Sunday, December 30, 2007 at 11:51:13 AM
 


electronic technician, truth seeker
Bob Gormleyelectronic technician, truth seeker

ccluessfl

You got it!

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 927 comments) on Sunday, December 30, 2007 at 1:08:18 PM
 


The author is a very "with-it" old lady who aspires to bring a bit of truth, justice, and commom sense to a nation that has lost touch with its humanity in the search for societal "perfection".
Mary PittThe author is a very "with-it" old lady who aspires to bring a bit of truth, justice, and commom sense to a nation that has lost touch with its humanity in the search for societal "perfection".

My fondest daydream

is that I may be around to watch those money-grubbers try to wedge their bloated bellies through the eye of that needle!  It is better to follow the admonition and "not let the left hand know what the right hand giveth" and to do your charity in private, the same way Jesus said we should do our prayers.

by Mary Pitt (64 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 176 comments) on Sunday, December 30, 2007 at 4:46:38 PM
 


57Yo m I'm a "been there, done that! Bought the tee shirt,to hide the scars!" type of person Ive worked�many jobs from�a chicken slaughterer to managing a branch of a multinational and many jobs in between.Raised in colonial PNG Left School 16,Grad Hi school 22 Night School, University 36� BBus (majored in Psyche and Marketing), Dip Comp prog and project Mmnt.at 50 I've been in 48 different community org ,23 on board with 18 prez or deputy prez.First social campaign at 17 for the aborigine...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Andris57Yo m I'm a "been there, done that! Bought the tee shirt,to hide the scars!" type of person Ive worked�many jobs from�a chicken slaughterer to managing a branch of a multinational and many jobs in between.Raised in colonial PNG Left School 16,Grad Hi school 22 Night School, University 36� BBus (majored in Psyche and Marketing), Dip Comp prog and project Mmnt.at 50 I've been in 48 different community org ,23 on board with 18 prez or deputy prez.First social campaign at 17 for the aborigine...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Hmmm needs more thought and humanity

I know that to many in the US that the national motto should be changed from “in God we Trust" to "Caveat Emptor" But your comment is on the surface beyond the pale and should not be left unchallenged.

The quote is  'O Ye of little faith' and is as relevant to this piece as saying that the victims of Columbine High deserved to be shot. The gullible are the victims here.

One thing I have learned in my life is not all people are born equal and for some birth is as near to equality as they are ever likely to get. In fact things often go down hill from there.

I'm pleased that you have a brain and the wit and experience to see through these self serving charlatans (predatory scum) but in truth many can't and rely on their religion for HOPE. Not redemption and a free ride to heaven.

I think you should spend some time amongst the totally neglected and lonely and see how desperate some of these people are for a little contact, momentary sense of importance etc. Add to this many of these people are of limited comprehension and easily manipulated.

I believe it is up to us (you included) to protect the vulnerable not excuse you lack of humanity in smoke screen of diverted responsibility. That is plain and simple the basis of all religions and ethical behavior…..i.e. Do unto others as you would have done to you

Then you may be in a position to stand on your pusillanimous sanctimony and pontificate on the guilt of the victims.

 

by Andris (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 531 comments) on Sunday, December 30, 2007 at 10:21:34 PM
 

 

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