In the first place, none of the above reasons given about Muslims represents Islam except "maybe" in the most extreme fundamentalist sects, certainly not a "Good Muslim". For example, from my understanding, Islam does NOT claim to be the one and only true faith. The word Islam means surrender. To surrender ones self to God (Allah). Sound familiar? Good Muslims do not regard Muhammad as the founder of a new religion, but as the restorer of the original monotheistic faith of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets. Although most might believe that Judaism and Christianity distorted the messages of these prophets over time either in interpretation, in text, or both, of which I can't disagree, they believe that all religions have their place.

My point is that the "Good Muslim" is a very generous, loving person and should be represented as such which you fail to do here. I appreciate your attempt here but I think that by leaving the definitions stand, unchallenged, you are not representing "truth" but are instead playing into the propaganda that fuels the hate.

Peace

by Jiffy (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Friday, Sep 7, 2007 at 11:14:35 AM

Hi Jiffy,

Thanks for the comment.  I agree with you.  I was addressing, almost with a bit of cheek, that the author of the article sees what he perceives as problemw Muslim belief but fails to recognize that his own is very similar save for the switch from God to Allah.  It was not meant to imply that all Muslims believe this or that any more than I believe all Christians believe the same on their side of the coin.  The author's points are basically ridiculous and I merely wished to point this out.  Thanks!

by Dennis Diehl (71 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 58 comments) on Friday, Sep 7, 2007 at 11:31:23 AM

that a Catholic cannot be true American because he/she  admits Pope as a highest spiritual authority, a Jew cannot be true American because they pray 'Next year in Jerusalem' etc. etc, so the only true American is a skunk:)

 

Thanks, Dennis, it was a pleasure.

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4102 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 7, 2007 at 1:38:35 PM

I am really troubled sometimes by simple arrogance and ignorance about Islam in the United States. The author has done well to highlight many of them ...but consider the following:

Mocking Islam ussually starts by emphasizing the term "Allah" as if Moslems somehow have a differrent set of beliefs or as if Allah is some sort of statue. The term "Allah" is simply the word God in Arabic. And in fact Christians in Lebanon and other Arab countries refer to God by using the same term.

Then, there is the notion that somehow Islam is an exclusive faith, i.e. that there is no tolerance or acceptance of other faiths. And this concept is also not correct or true. Moslems specifically accept, acknowledge and integrate christianity and judaism within their set of beliefs and interestingly even in (fundamentalist) and totalitarian Iran, their Religious consititution specifically supports and protects Christians and Jews. Moses, Abraham, Jesus are all referenced and revered in Islam. Islam is not really very different from these other faiths.

There has to be some differentiation between the religion and some of its adherents. Remember Hitler was a Christian ...so was McVey (Oklahoma Bomber) ... so were IRA terrorists in NOrthern Ireland. There is a real difference between the religion and those that are exploiting the religion for power and gain.  The Supreme leader of Iran recieves 1/7th (one out of every 7 dollars) from Iran oil Exports. Naturally he has both the motivation and the means to continue a heavy handed religious suppression of the masses.  The more fundamentalist and orthodox he can persuade the people to become, the more hard power and money he makes.

The same does and has applied to Christianity. Look at the power of the Papacy prior to the reformation in Europe. Over one thousand years had gone by before any one dared to question the legitimacy of the Pope's political and economic power. Look at all the Gold ceilings in the Vatican, where did all that come from? We continue to see church based abuse, whether its through Child abuse by Catholic priests, or financial scandals involving bogus real estate sales by Jim and Tammy Baker exploiting naive followers, or Swagarts incidents with Prostitutes.

Islam is followed differently in different parts of the world. It has many sects just like Christianity. Our current or modern age issue, is that Islam is being expoited in political sense as a means of opposing non-democratic, and totalitarian regimes ...that have banned all other forms of opposition. Consider Morrocco, this past week. The "King" (supreme national power, head of state with power to veto laws) banned many political parties from participating in the election ... but he could NOT ban the Islamic party (since Morrocans are Moslems). Thus the Islamic party ran for parliament and won a majority. The situation is almost identical in virtually every Arab country. Islam has taken on the role of becoming a vehicle for radicalism and opposition to oppression in the middle east ... It is now becoming even more radicalized and a force for armed opposition against virtually everything that can be 'blamed' for the rotten circumstance the people in the countries find themselves in ...despite all the oil wealth... they are blaming Israel, they are blaming the West for supporting their totalitarian rulers,...

This is not Islam itself, its simply the use of Islam politically to achieve other aims.

The use of Islam in this sense is not so different to the political use of Christian fundamentalism in the United States, or the violence exhibited by the IRA or Protestant Paramilitaries in Northern Ireland, or indeed the Military conflicts in Europe in the Middle Ages, or Christian Crusades (Osama is in effect an Islamic Crusader)... its all the same 'type' of thing.

One final point, Islam will not go away. There are 1.5 Billion moslems on the planet. And it is the fastest growing religion in the world (in Europe and the US too). We have to build a better world. We have to be constructive. Decrying or misunderstanding Islam only polarizes and already difficult situation.

We need to address the core issues that have radicalized Islam (Palestian/Israeli situation, totalitarianism, regime change in Iran [as long as the Mullahs there are billionaires there will be incentive for other Mullahs to take power]) ...and we need to build tolerance, respect and understanding among people of all faiths...which comes through education and elimination of ignorance.

THanks for taking the time to write this article.

by Jalil Bahar (19 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 30 comments) on Saturday, Sep 8, 2007 at 6:33:10 AM

Islam must make some drastic changes or it will go away just like the type of Christianity in the Middle Ages (500 BCE or AD to 1700) had to change or go away.

It has been about three hundred years since Christianity had a religious war.

Thanks,

Phil Ratliff

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 972 comments) on Sunday, Sep 9, 2007 at 4:46:44 PM

   Thanks for posting this!

 

 

David 

by chariotdrvr14 (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 159 comments [7 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 8, 2007 at 3:44:26 PM

While generally tolerance is a good approach to life, there can be exceptions. For instance, speaking of Hitler, who was not in fact a Christian, but referred to Christ as "that Jewish bastard," and was instead an occultist, who would argue that we should tolerate a religion or political philosophy based upon racial supremacy? Similarly, should we tolerate a religion that admittedly seeks to destroy by violent or peaceful means the democratic Republic and the Constitution and Bill of Rights upon which our nation is founded, and which themselves are founded on over two millenia of Western social and political development? Of course we cannot tolerate such movements within our body politic. The question then is whether Islam has the undermining of Western political and social rights and institutions as a fundamental goal.

There can be little doubt from a reading of the Koran that world dominion is the ultimate goal of Islam. As Islamic apologists like to note, Christianity and Judaism can coexit under Islam, because Christians and Jews are "people of the book." And this fact has often been true. What these apologists fail to mention, though, is that "kafir" (non-believers or non-muslims) are to be subject to a special tax that muslims are not required to pay, placing the kafir at a competitive disadvantage and establishing an underclass within the muslim dominated society. They also fail to mention that this special tax is designed to bring about conversion, and if it does not, the kafir becomes finally an infidel subject to execution. All must believe not only in Allah, and that Mohammed was His prophet, but also that Sharia is the only form of law that brings justice on earth. As the Committee on American and Islamic Relations has stated, they forsee a future where sharia law is implemented "peacefully" in the United States. Most other American Islamic groups have made similar statements. In Western Europe, known for its tolerant social and political ethos, massive Islamic immigration and birthrates have resulted in large segments of the population that consider themselves loyal to Islam and not to the country of their residence or birth. In many polls that have been conducted there, the vast majority of Muslims, especially the younger generation, favor the imposition of sharia in their adopted countries. So the question becomes, how tolerant can we afford to be? Can we be so tolerant that Muslims become a majority in the United States? If so, then there will be no more atheists, agnostics, hindus, etc., but only people of the book; and they will have only a secondary status, and a temporary one at that. Tolerance has its limits in terms of mass movements.

The opposite prevails in terms of individuals. When I was a young law student and the Iranian hostage crisis was occurring, I did a great deal of pro bono work for Iranian students that President Carter was trying to expel from the country. I grew numerous close friendships with these young men during this trying time, and as we lived in the deep south, I, and my property, was attacked and vandalized repeatedly as was that of the Iranian students. Few things can create greater bonds than this type of shared adversity. I found these young students to be of excellent moral character, humorous, fun-loving, trustworthy, loyal, and pious. We shared many hours of discussions about politics and Islam. Then along came the Iran/Iraq war, and without question each of them went back home to fight for Iran. We wrote at first, but soon I heard that this one died, then that one, then another one, until there was only one left. Then I never heard from him again.

For two years almost everything I had done had been with these Iranian students. I taught them to skate at a roller rink. We played soccer together. We swam together daily at the pool where they all had apartments next to their junior college. Since I was married, we had them over to supper three or four times a week, and then sat back and listened to modern American music, which they liked very much. I don't think I ever met a finer people. I guess Winston Churchill got it right when he stated, "Individual Moslems...show spendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedamism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step." (circa 1899). When I read this quote and consider the superb qualities of the individuals I befriended, I also wonder where are the great symphonies inspired by Islam, where are the great scientific breakthroughs in physics and computer science, where is the great artwork outside the mosques, where are the great sculptures, where are the great medical breakthroughs, where are the greater contributions to the world as a whole. In short, why is it in our interest to tolerate the rapid advance of Islam into Western society? What does it offer us?

In many ways Islam's modern critique of the West's enchantment with materialism and sex is a vital and poignant argument for the failure of democracy and capitalism, leaving its people as selfish, void of spirit, narcissitic, ignorant, petty, habitual consumers: always seeking that next high of the new buy, the new toy, and never finding the true joys of lasting relationships with family, community and God. But the discovery of this loss must come from within as Jesus taught, not be imposed from without, as the prophet Mohammed modeled and taught. And those that would compare Christianity and Islam miss this fundamental point. Muslims that pick up the sword to spread their religion are only following the model of their prophet, while Christians that pick up the sword are contradicting the model shown them by their Messiah. Hence, the former are true Muslims, while the latter only claim to be Christians, though they are not.

Some will read this and claim it hate speach with a knee jerk reaction. To them, and any other that doubts my position, I only request that you read and study the entire Koran before you cast judgment. I have no doubt that there are many Muslims that take their religion no more seriously than the Easter/Christmas Christian, and from them we, of course, have nothing to fear. But so long as Islam demands world dominion, with the sword, if necessary, the crisis between the West and the Islamic world, oil or no oil, will continue to clarify as Muslims turn more and more to the Koran and the prophet to guide their actions. What they will find there will not be the Self-Sacrificing Lamb, but the Conquering Sword.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 8, 2007 at 9:19:05 PM

I agree about the intolerance of many Fundamentalist.

Do you agree that the Mennonites, Amish, Quakers, Hutterites and Swiss Brethren are Fundamentalists? Could you give your reasons as to why and why not?

I am sure you studied about them in seminary.

Thanks,

Phil Ratliff

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 972 comments) on Sunday, Sep 9, 2007 at 4:35:27 PM