Bill Perry knows a lot about shooting people in the head. He did it in Viet Nam, and he knows how the ballistics work. He's pretty sure about Tillman.
The blogs are abuzz with the AP article reporting that Army medical examiners questioned the close proximity of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead sustained by Pat Tillman. These doctors were denied a request for an investigation. Tillman's death, as we know, was initially reported to be the result of enemy fire. Family members persisted in a quest for the truth, with little help from the media who bought into the patriotic bullshit spun by the Pentagon. This quest turned the official story 0n its head and Tillman's death was subsequently declared to have been a case of accidental "friendly fire." Persistence again exposed even more damning evidence as uncovered in an AP report on July 26, 2007:
"Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.
"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.
The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away."
Discussions of cover-ups, motives, who was involved, how high up did it go have been the focus of many articles and comments. But, what about those bullet holes - so close together, so accurate. How do we make sense of that? What does it mean? Step in, Bill Perry, Paratrooper-Rifleman with the 101st Airborne Division during the TET Offensive in 1968 to explore the technical aspect of how these injuries may or may not have been executed.
Bill Perry:
I'm NOT looking for an argument here, on what Wes Clark may, or may NOT have said on Keith Olberman's MSNBC show.
What I DO want to mention is my highly personal experience of killing 4 men at extremely close range, with an M-16. The Doctors examining Pat Tillman stated there was "an extremely close shot group ".... (and they added "fired from less than 10 yards" away).
I'm an expert marksman, and I killed 4 men who ran right up on my point position, AFTER an ambush began, them not realizing I was so far removed from the other 28 men in my platoon. These men were about 3 to 4 yards away, and I had excellent cover... I had probably killed all 4 of them with just my first 6 shots from the expended 19 round magazine... and I went through their pockets, afterwards, while they were still warm.
There was NOTHING CLOSE to a "Shot group" on any of these men. Their wounds reflected their flailing & flying bodies as I blew them away.
A "Shot group" on Pat Tillman's forehead indicates ONE shot killed him, and then he was "double checked", then "triple checked" at POINT BLANK range, to make sure he was dead. ( 3 shots = "Shot Group" )
When the 1st shot hits something like a head or arm, it swings wildly BEFORE the 2nd or 3rd shot can hit it. A "Shot group" indicates the head was up against something ( like the ground ), and the shots were fired on "semi-auto", NOT full automatic.
If there were a "fog of war" or an actual ambush, everybody would be on "auto", and you wouldn't EVER find "shot groups." Our After Action Report of our particular firefight indicated 56 KIA, and, believe me, there wasn't a "Shot Group" on any of them.
For the folks who have never had neither Military, nor Law Enforcement Rifle Range Training:
"Shot Group" is usually a 3 shot "group", as it hits a paper target, mounted on a wooden silhouette. (World Class Target shooting will use 5 to 10 shot "SHOT GROUPS".) Most caliber ammo ranges from .223 of an inch ( 5.62 mm ) to about 1/2 inch in diameter (.50 & .51 caliber)(12.7MM). A "great" shot group will have ALL 3 shots touching each other. A "good" shot group will have ALL 3 shots within an inch of each other, at 25 yards. A "world class" shot group will have all 3 shots within 0.200 of an inch of each other, @ 200 meters.
A SHOT GROUP, in a man's forehead, must be administered ONE SHOT AT A TIME, with the head just as stationary as a target silhouette.
NOBODY, 'cept Superman, can hold an automatic weapon steady enough to deliver a shot group onto somebody's forehead, on full automatic, further than 1 foot away.
If there is a "shot group", then the shots were administered on "semi", and Tillmann was dead after the 1st shot, and his head was held steady, for shots #2, & #3 (AGAINST THE GROUND?)
This article wouldn't have happened without the initiative and help of Cheryl Biren-Wright
http://www.Arlington-Libertybell.net/
Bill Perry, Paratrooper-Rifleman w/ the 101st AIRBORNE Div, during the TET Offensive, 1968
http://www.Arlington-Libertybell.net/
http://www.VFP144.or g
Who where the two snipers mentioned in the Friday news clip of the 18 year old soilder who was next to Tillman,Blackwaters?It doesn't sound like they where part of the unit.
by
tjb (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 218 comments)
on Monday, July 30, 2007 at 12:34:07 PM
Why would anyone even consider burning a dead soldier's diary? That would be the one article on the man which would be considered "GOLDEN" by his family. They burned the man's diary, without his brother's or family's permission. Some one, ... er several ones should lose their rank and retirement fund over this one! And the military claims they are professional. Did it come from Cheney. Sounds like David and Bathsheba to me.
by
Dale Hill (58 articles, 0 quicklinks, 101 diaries, 347 comments)
on Monday, July 30, 2007 at 2:20:22 PM
On July 26, 2007, AP received official documents stating that the investigating doctors performing the autopsy suspected that Tillman was deliberately murdered.
TO PRISON! Assassins, Accomplices to Murder, and other LIARS
Sign me up for the angry mob! Demotion is way too lenient for these bloody war criminals.
TO PRISON with them! Assassins, accomplices to first degree murder, and other LIARS must serve hard time behind bars and then a long time from now, if they serve their proper time, they must be marked with a criminal record that bars them from holding public office ever again. No more pardons, commutations, suspensions, and quid pro quo cover-up, back scratching for slimy, sniveling hench men! Extra-judicial killing, wiggly-language lying, and PR white-washing must not be tolerated.
Murderers! The trigger men are cold-blooded killers doing the bloody dirty work of an administration afraid of dissent. They are rogues doing the bidding of evil, but even worse are the COWARDS who ordered the hit. The LIARS and THIEVES who are afraid of the exposure and moral power that a war hero turned anti-war peace activist might bring to an already popular movement fighting against their traitorous deceptions.
JUSTICE! Bring all the troops home now! Let the real veteran war stories expose the lies and deceit of this illegal and immoral, imperial war.
by
Tim Riley (7 articles, 5 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 130 comments)
on Monday, July 30, 2007 at 3:08:15 PM
When I read this article and the AP reports regarding the tight grouping of bullets that killed Pat Tillman, I assumed assassination at close range occurred. I was rabidly angry and pissed that the Bush Administration would again sink to such lows. I wanted to join a lynch mob as I fumed in my comment above.
However, after reading The Fog of Fame: Pat Tillman as everyone’s political football by Stan Goff, found from the link posted by Allen Roland, Inside the Pat Tillman Death Scandal, I am a morbidly relieved that one plausible and probable theory of how Pat may have died includes friendly fire where Rules of Engagement were abandoned. The very qualified forensics experts who were reported to accompany Dan Tillman and Stan Goff to evaluate photos agreed that a Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) was probably the instrument of death:
The proximity of bullet wounds is not sufficient to determine the distance from which a round is fired. Two of the best gunshot wound pathologists in the country (Bux and DiMaio), at Dannie Tillman’s request accompanied me to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Rockville, Maryland earlier this year to examine the autopsy findings and autopsy photographs for Pat Tillman. Both agreed that the trajectories, exit wounds, and proximity of rounds are most consistent with a burst fired from the M-249 Squad Automatic Weapon, like the one fired from around 40 meters away by Specialist Trevor Alders outside Manah on April 22, 2004.
And later in the same article:
The only 5.56 mm weapon on the scene that could have placed those shots that quickly in the same place was the SAW… cyclic rate of auto-fire: 850 rounds per minute (14 rounds per second, ergo, three rounds in 2/10 of a second).
The account and the detail is convincing and riveting. Stan's account of the day leading up to the incident is rather long, but full of details apparently pieced together from many different sources. I find his vision and account of the day very plausible and credible. His voice rings true and honest, and my bull shit detector is fairly good.
I remain skeptical, but whatever way Pat Tillman was actually killed, I still think that the Bush Administration and particularly Donald Rumsfield need to be brought to justice for sending our soldiers into harm's way to kill and be killed for an illegal war started purposefully with HUGE TREASONOUS LIES!!!
I highly recommend this article to those interested in reading a highly credible and researched account into probable events surrounding the death of Pat Tillman.
by
Tim Riley (7 articles, 5 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 130 comments)
on Monday, August 13, 2007 at 3:27:49 AM
Bush couldn't have a former NFL anti-war activist. Pat Tillman He could have single handedly turned the entire US against this war and started a massive upsurge. Tillman spoke publicly about how this war is a fraud and a lie and Bush simply couldn't allow Tillman to make it back alive.
This administration and the assasins that carry out this type of dirty work need to be brought to justice!
by
J. Vorhees (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 66 comments)
on Monday, July 30, 2007 at 4:04:38 PM
Pat had everything going for him to become the new John Wayne of the 21st Century: Looks, athleticism, patriotism, integrity, whoops, that last word set his world spinning when he realized that a con was going on in Iraq, according to the reports we've seen.
He couldn't play along with the "coaches", so to speak, because their game plan was rotten to the core, so it now looks like they had to freeze-frame him as that premature celluloid John Wayne idol, dying heroically in battle, until of course that sham fell through and the tragic friendly fire scenario was erected.
So now that is disintegrating and we are left with what? A fragging or assassination? There should be a Congressional investigation, because I don't think you can trust the military anymore. They are too far gone down the pathway to Hell. Of course Congress isn't much better, so where can you find an honest investigation?
by
Mac McKinney (42 articles, 69 quicklinks, 164 diaries, 1071 comments)
on Monday, July 30, 2007 at 4:16:43 PM
Reason: This comment was flagged with the observation:
This is pure disinformation by a troll...look at it. Implies that Tillman was a "raving lunatic" among other things. The post should go as should the user.
I tend to agree. But it is instructive to allow, with labeling , this comment to stand, as an illustration of what the right will do to vilify real heroes who don't drink the koolaid.
What is it about these new commenter's? And hey, stop digging for other reasons for his murder. Well, at least you weren't denying it. That's a big development for a repub. i guess.
by
RCG (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 348 comments)
on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 at 1:29:16 AM
well, rcg one thing u can be sure of with new commenters (one is more suspicious than the other in my opinion) is that u will find more often than not they are off subject. the piece by perry is prefaced with the idea that theories are flying around as to who it was and why. bill's article focuses specifically on the wounds and how they could be inflicted. bill does not comment on whether it was a disgruntled comrade or an assassin. simply that this did not happen in the fog of war and was a deliberate act. i wonder if they will first agree with that?
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Cheryl Biren-Wright (19 articles, 23 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 351 comments)
on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 at 6:39:12 AM
Both comments (labeled below) are about DISINFORMATION
"John Wayne Killed Indians" spreads a vile rumor intended to move around the internet with the credibility of simply existing. It is pure disinformation with a broad swath. It has no relationship to the post; its here as a means of pre-emptive character assassination against Pat Tillman. The goal - to protect the boy king and his henchmen. It's really a nasty piece of work.
"Murder" is a bit more subtle - was he a high school bully. What does this commentator think this is, Columbine? The comment is brief but also another piece of the story that will be told about Tillman to poison the well...as though his fabricated character will justify whatever fate he experienced. A tiny but potent comment.
Everything we read about Tillman says "Boy Scout" - well liked, hard working, selfless, and a patriot. Who are these people? Maybe they'll identify themselves.
by
Michael Collins (97 articles, 16 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 345 comments)
on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 at 7:59:42 AM
Rob's kicking some ass above. Heartening. I like the idea of leaving that comment there with the commentary. A public display of troll tactics with a warning label. Three cheers Rob!!!
by
Michael Collins (97 articles, 16 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 345 comments)
on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 at 8:38:53 AM
Just because he famous and could throw a football, he is getting all of this attention and special investgation. How many others were killed by friendly fire? The poor and some enthic groups. Maybe he knew something. That somebody didn't want to known. there many others
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Gareece (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 46 comments)
on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 at 9:21:07 AM
If this was a case of death by friendly fire during the heat of combat why the cover-up? From what has been published there is absolutely no evidence that there was any incoming fire at the time of this tragic incident so one can only conclude that something else transpired at the time of his death.From the conflicting reports of what his last words were these reports can only solidify the contention that a great efforts were and are still are being taken to absolve those who are responsible for this murder. It is conceivable that those who witnessed the hit are in fear of their lives and are reluctant to come forward with the truth. If he was a football player or a dishwasher this murder has to be investigated thoroughly.Independent Counsel should be appointed with the power to grant immunity to the actual witness to the hit and bring to justice all others who were involved, ordered it and covered it up.
by
walley (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 108 comments)
on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 at 10:10:41 AM
The Pat Tillman situation and the Frank Olson situation share some similarities, both suggesting a cover up of a cover up.
Frank Olson, a military anthrax scientist, "killed" himself in the '50's. The first cover was his unexpected suicide by jumping from a hotel window. Twenty years later, the second cover emerged that he had a bad, government sponsored, LSD trip and jumped. Olson was at the hotel undergoing a psychologic evaluation by a dermatologist. Much later it appears he died of blunt force trauma and was dumped out the window. The smoking gun was the original government sponsored, closed casket funeral due to landing on his head after diving over a dresser, out a window at 13 stories. When his son had is body exumed much, much later, the only trauma was a slight depression on the side of his skull. It is suspected that he was becoming disillusioned and voiced some concerns internally. Truly, a man that knew too much. Back then, you are on the bus or off the bus.
Who usually does two covers? One for the masses and one for close co-workers who are supposed to keep the first cover a secret. Maybe Tillman made enemies, but it sure is hushed up. There is several orders of magnitude between Olson and Tillman, but who knows?
The book "Mortal Error," gave a look at the Kennedy assassination through the eyes of a forensic ballistics specialist.
Bill Perry, is doing this with the Tillman murder. In both cases, the real picture begins to emerge.
In "Mortal Error," the bullet that caused Kennedys' head to explode, was fired by the Secret Service agent-George Warren Hickey-from the Secret Service limo right behind. This may help to explain why Kennedys' limo slowed down while he was being shot from several different locations, and also why so many folks smelled gun powder at ground level near Kennedys' limo.
This may also help to explain why so many people who saw all of this at the time, died soon afterwards. Some from gun and knife attacks, and many others from head on collisions.
Secret Service agent, George Warren Hickey, lived to see a television program about his life made into a weekly show; "The Six Million dollar man."
Forensic tests revealed that it was a .223 caliber bullet fired from a "Sport" version of the M-16, which was the instrument of the head wound delivered to President Kennedy. This was known at the time, yet this information was kept out of the Warren commission report.
The same "Business interests" that murdered Kennedy, also silenced Tillman. The clever, cunning predators on the human race, are inter generational. This predator group is the terrorist network employed by and for the Bank of England. The Anglo-Zionist terrorist network.
They work the human predator game, for both fun; and profit. This is where the "Smirk" factor comes from. They can't get over how easy it is to kill so many of us.
The "Money Masters" took control of this Old Crown Colony- and long running Extortion Murder racket- with the establishment of the Federal Reserve Bank, way back in 1913. This group has run the human predator game full tilt ever since then. Not even slowing down once they finally had the means to exterminate the mass of humanity in an all out nuclear war.
Instead of selecting a new strategy, the Money Masters decided that they would rather "Smoke the Dopes."
This is how "ET" stepped into this world openly 61 years ago, and since then has been trying to get our Money Masters into treatment for "Anger management disorder," so as to end the plans to destroy the mass of the human race in an all out nuclear war. Oh,' by the way, That plan is still in place. Our "Master" class gets angry, and they continue to lash out with repeated attempts to launch an all out nuclear war.
Our duty is to dismember the nuclear war machine, so as to prevent "Master" from exterminating us all, when his anger boils over and "He" decides to destroy us on a whim.
Pat Tillman is like many people of this land. He was unaware of the truth when he joined the Military, yet when he understood that it was all a scam, and innocent people were suffering because of it, he decided that he would speak up for the people with no voice. The "Master" can not allow the truth to be revealed.
The "Daze of our Lies" and other effects produced by our Money Masters, are approaching an end. As more people investigate the Tillman murder, more lies will follow from the "Master."
It possible that finally, when it is understood that both President Kennedy and Pat Tillman were shot in the head with a .223 caliber weapon, and we demand to know who pulled the Trigger on Pat Tillman, the "Master" through the Mainstream media may again tell us: "Oswald Done it!"
.
by
Patrick (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 401 comments)
on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 at 1:04:24 PM
I truely apoligize to the "old commenters" for offending you all. And thank you for removing my post.
The disinformation that I posted was third hand disinformation from someone that was in Afganistan at the time. And was on thread with Mr. Perry's article. Remember My Lai?
I thought the question here was why Mr Tillman's comrades would want to murder him since that is what Mr. Perry's article implies.
But you guys have set your minds that Bush is behind this crime? If that is the truth then I would like to know the truth. With so many distinguished article editors here I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it.
So you "old commenters" think "the boy king" really has enough orginizational shills to pull this off? Interesting. ...And good to see you've solved that Kennedy thing.
Allan Thomas
by
Allan (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments)
on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 at 6:36:50 PM
i don't think the author and commenters have all concluded that bush is behind this, but when everytime the family pushes for answers, new information like this comes up, it's bound to raise questions and some anger.
the fact, though, that the president, upon hearing that those in Congress have asked for an invesigation to the latest report, has invoked executive privilege (yet again) is pretty outrageous.
and by the way, if you heard what you say you heard how have the authorities responded to you reporting it? - you first said it in kind of a naive, by the way, manner but when pulled you were pretty forceful with it, confident that this was info straight from Afghanistan - well, you probably ought to get on the phone with someone rather than sharing it on some biased thread. let us know how it goes.
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Cheryl Biren-Wright (19 articles, 23 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 351 comments)
on Wednesday, August 1, 2007 at 7:05:59 AM
Thank you for your rational reply. Where would you turn? Certainly not my republican Senator! ...And not the military. And then who is to say what would be the risk to the third party? Just look at the two very different stories of the young soldier standing next to him when he was shoot.
So far it seems the investigation has been into who lied, not why they lied. And gee whiz, aren't we relieved that no one lost their pension or stars over this. But until the soldiers who were actually there speak out, their first amendment rights respected, we will know only who covered up, not what they really covered up.
by
Allan (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments)
on Wednesday, August 1, 2007 at 4:17:53 PM
