And that, I believe,

is a wrap.

by Meryl Ann Butler (47 articles, 51 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 412 comments) on Wednesday, September 3, 2008 at 4:04:46 PM
 

Sound Reasoning

While you may get some hostile feedback for it, I consider this to be a very well-reasoned argument by an individual with some experience and knowledge in such matters.

We already know the extremes to which precautions are taken with the President and VP whenever they travel. George Bush actually has his urine and excrement bagged so they can't be collected by spies who would analyze it to determine his diet and general health, as well as to test for various diseases he may have.

These are real issues that must be addressed. Scandals such as this are considered everyday by the government to determine whether a person can be trusted for a certain level of security clearance. Even if there has been no indication that the person would have tendencies toward succumbing to blackmail, if the possibility that the information might be damning enough to cause doubt, the government simply will not and cannot accept the risk.

by JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments) on Wednesday, September 3, 2008 at 4:31:47 PM
 

Yes, I have gotten some negative feedback. Definitely.

Some people have interpreted this as an accusation against Todd Palin that he is an alcoholic child abuser and been upset about that. I want to make clear that nothing in this is intended as an accusation, but that the standard we need to keep is "beyond question" not "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt".

Regarding government not accepting such risk, I would modify your blanket statement from "will not/cannot" to "should not".  The fact is that in our system, if the voters elect someone then the system accepts them as executive. And that is a hole in the system that we cannnot close without destroying our democracy. This is all the more reason why a matter such as this must be pursued.

When background checks are done for security clearance, there are a few disqualifying admissions, but the most important thing is disclosure. When filling out such a questionaire, a person had better admit everything from homosexuality and S&M to drug use and financial problems. The reason is that if a person has thinks they need to hide something, that is a lever on them that can be used.

So now the public and the press needs to do the background check, and the red flag to be pursued is any evidence of embarassment and non-disclosure.

Non-disclosure is what is of concern, not the act(s) themselves. Thus, Obama's admission of youthful drug experimentation is fine, as is McCain's admissions of extramarital affairs. Since both are open admissions, there is no problem form a national security standpoint, and political attacks on their basis are simply smears. Similarly, the real problem with the Clinton-Monica affair was the lie, rather than the act itself. 

I am aware that since the time of Ed Rollins the standard advice to sitting politicians confronted with accusations has been to deny them because politicians who deny are mostly re-elected, and politicians who admit them tend to lose their next election. However, this tendency is extremely unfortunate and the public needs to be educated that a politician who might have lied is a much more serious matter than a politician who commits an all  too human indiscretion.

And so we all need to take a deep breath and show both compassion for the humanity of our candidates, whether we are for them or against them. But we also should understand clearly what is a real problem. Lying, particularly lying about something that can be proven by hard evidence, needs to be treated as the very serious matter that it is. Admitting an error or indiscretion should be understood as a strength, not a weakness.

In the final analysis, what I am asking from the Palins is that they step up and clear the higher standard for the office they want to occupy. Sarah Palin needs to hold herself to the same standard that John McCain has held himself to. I can accept a short period of adjustment for Sarah Palin, but she needs to reorient herself and respect the office she has been nominated for. 

by John Toradze (7 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 16 comments) on Wednesday, September 3, 2008 at 5:35:10 PM
 

FAV QUOTE OF THE DAY

"It's conceivable a 17-year-old girl just screwed the GOP," Democratic strategist George Lakoff tells Us Weekly.

 click here

by Meryl Ann Butler (47 articles, 51 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 412 comments) on Wednesday, September 3, 2008 at 5:05:10 PM
 

I have a dear friend who is very difficult to work with.

For what it's worth, in my experience most people who accomplish much are difficult in some ways. A dear friend of mine lobbied for years, never marrying, despite wanting to and being very attractive. Simply put, she's a bear and a half and I've told her I wouldn't marry her either. But I both respect her very much and truth to tell, I love the gal. One of the things she taught me I haven't forgotten is, "Politics is the art of payback and favors." True enough to be said.

The question I would ask is whether the person conducted themselves honorably or was petty. Did they have the big picture in mind? Did they accomplish worthwhile things or leave a mess behind? Were they stupid? As Napoleon said, "Corruption has limits. Stupidity has none."

by John Toradze (7 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 16 comments) on Wednesday, September 3, 2008 at 6:29:41 PM
 

Mine too now.

Good one.

by Amanda Lang (23 articles, 13845 quicklinks, 431 diaries, 593 comments) on Wednesday, September 3, 2008 at 11:28:57 PM
 

I think the reason they

bag his waste is so Bu$h doesn't have to explain the last time he abused cocaine of drunk alcohol.

by Stanimal (0 articles, 4 quicklinks, 23 diaries, 668 comments) on Wednesday, September 3, 2008 at 7:11:07 PM
 

wow...

Comment from Ratings:   ...talk about just running with nothing but inuendo and fantastic speculation. That has got to be the best of all of them. Her husband raped the kid while drunk? The older brother is the daddy? Don't think very much of the people of Alaska, do you? That's just... wow. Yeah, I bet you would sign a fake name to this one. What is surprizing, is that such wild, insulting and demeaning speculation to, now the entire family, would get published here, AFTER you mention that this is a 'pen name". Wow.

by scott creighton (25 articles, 11 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 244 comments) on Wednesday, September 3, 2008 at 7:16:10 PM
 

Maybe you misunderstood.

 I do not believe that Toradze suggests for a moment that “all of the above” are true, or even that “any of the above” are true. But the possibility that “one of the above” might be true, creating an opportunity for blackmail, is worth nipping in the bud. And, in the absence of clear information, all the possibilities must be explored.

 And Sarah should be glad to cooperate for the good of her country. If I gave birth, as Sarah said she did, under some unusual circumstances that raised questions, I’d be happy to submit to DNA testing to proof that what I said is true. Under no circumstances would I want American citizens to be wondering if there was something to blackmail me about. And it’s really a very easy fix. DNA test.  Bam. Done. End of story.

by Meryl Ann Butler (47 articles, 51 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 412 comments) on Thursday, September 4, 2008 at 12:46:29 AM
 

Father-daughter incest is the most common form.

I have addressed these issues in a new article:  http://www.opednews.com/articles/-Beyond-question-versus--by-John-Toradze-080903-355.html  "Beyond question" versus "innocent until proven guilty"

You did misunderstand. However, most people are unaware of how common father daughter sexual relations are, and hence dismiss the possibility out of hand. Intelligence agencies know better - it is their business to know better. See: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2005/is_3_38/ai_n13810110 "Acting out the Oedipal wish": father-daughter incest and the sexuality of adolescent girls in the United States, 1941-1965 by Journal of Social History,  Spring, 2005  by Rachel Devlin

From the article: "...father-daughter incest was the most common form of incest, and stated that prosecutions were not representative of actual incidence. These findings appeared only two years after Alfred Kinsey, the famous sexologist, published data that revealed that father-daughter incest occurred in closer to one in one hundred families than one in one million." Note: That early Kinsey figure works out to roughly 2 million females in the USA who have had sex with their fathers.

"There is no question that these social workers, as Linda Gordon has amply demonstrated, withheld judgement when confronted with complaints of incest, and failed to investigate incestuous fathers, even when they had evidence of sexual abuse. "

There is other literature that shows that frequency goes way up with drinking.

Since in an evaluation, the intensity of activities taken to cover something up are a metric for the degree of motivation that the person has to do so, one is moved in the direction of possibly serious felony having taken place.

by John Toradze (7 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 16 comments) on Saturday, September 6, 2008 at 3:32:43 PM
 

Um....

This is a parody, right? Did you snatch this theory from the Phil Hendrie Show?

by Scott (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 576 comments) on Wednesday, September 3, 2008 at 8:22:04 PM
 

Serious Threat

I agree!  Such threats from unfriendly powers around the world must be taken seriously.  If interested parties in China, Russia, Iran or anywhere for that matter had the ability to compromise U.S. national security, there is no better fulcrum than the Oval Office.  In fact, I take this so seriously that I believe it may be necessary to open an investigation into the real cause of death of Joe Biden’s first wife.  After all, if it could be proven that she did not in fact die in accidentally, but rather that Joe killed her to hide her knowledge of his serial pedophilia with their infant daughter, his ties to the Manson Family, and his alien abduction, now that could be real leverage for Iran.  Of course, I am not making any accusations, but as Meryl Ann Butler points out, Joe should be willing to cooperate with such an investigation for the good of his country, after all, as she states, “all the possibilities should be explored.”  If all possibilities are on the table, we should demand paternity tests for Obama, Biden, and McCain.  In fact, I don’t think it has ever been proven that Sen. McCain isn’t actually Sen. Obama’s real father, or that Sen, Obama isn’t actually his wife’s brother.  While we’re at it, we should probably check into every homicide on the books in Northeast Illinois over the past 30 years or so, given Sen, Obama’s upbringing in the not-so-pure Chicago political machine.  And let’s find out whether John McCain is hiding explosives under his shirt, preventing him from raising his arms.  Again, no accusations here, but in the spirit of the comments above, we should make sure there is no room for doubt.  No room for the possibility of blackmail.  So, when people with known ties to terrorist groups make phone calls to the United States, where do you “Toradze” and “Meryl Ann” stand on wire tapping those calls?  Seems simpler and less invasive than a DNA test to me.  My guess is that you’re horrified by the very suggestion of such a breach of civil liberties, but if you can make Governor Palin spend the next 60 days proving that she isn’t Hitler reincarnated, which you and your fellow bloggers will believe no matter what proof is offered, you’re all for it, and you’re probably so lacking of any shame or soul, that you can sleep well after doing it.  Do us all a favor, take a nap between now and November 5.  Nitwits!

by Martin (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments) on Thursday, September 4, 2008 at 8:45:03 AM
 

Here are a couple of personal positions

I support interception of phone calls. I think it is necessary, although I am aware that it is potentially fraught with potential for abuse. In Russia, for instance, where it is explicitly on the books, police like to monitor calls so that they can find out about deals in order to make some hush money.

I supported Poindexter's "terrorism marketplace" and still do.

I disagree with the Iraq war, but not because I think it is/was unjust. So we framed a guilty man - I could care less. That just proves this administration has poor foreign policy methods. What I object to is that it is incredibly expensive, and it is not achieving a goal worth pursuing. The Muslim culture has not and will not be democratic. No Muslim nation is, not even Turkey, which has a secular government guaranteed by military junta interventions. I think the Iraq war and the one in Afghanistan are wastes of time and money that have played straight into the hands of the Kremlin.

I was thinking I would vote for McCain, but tend to doubt I will now.

by John Toradze (7 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 16 comments) on Saturday, September 6, 2008 at 4:14:15 PM
 

One More Thing

Just one more thing.  "Toradze" says, "If Sarah Palin's minor daughter is the mother of Trig as appears near certainty..."  NEAR CERTAINTY?!??  Chatter on blogs is "near certainty"?  Are you kidding me?  If your proof of "near certainty" is the fact that Governor Palin will not dignify such nonsense with a level of defence sufficient to your liking, then you must still be in the third grade.  If this piece of slander you've written is purely non-partisan, as you claim, then do you have the guts to share with us with which of either Senator McCain's or Governor Palin's policy positions you agree?  Surely someone as non-partisan and objective as you must have some common ground with both tickets?  Where is your common ground with McCain/Palin?

by Martin (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments) on Thursday, September 4, 2008 at 9:19:37 AM
 

Yes, it is near certainty that Trig is not Sarah's daughter

It helps to think of this as an exercise in logic, pretending that you are getting all this information about someone living outside the USA who is in a position of power. Choose the nation you hold in lowest regard, and change the names. It helps to get started.  

Looked at objectively, there is zero evidence that Trig is Sarah's daughter, except for declarations. Sarah has no physical evidence of pregnancy.

Sarah's daughter disappeared from school for 8 months for treatment of mononucleosis, which doesn't last 8 months long. I am a microbiologist among other things, and mono lasts for a couple of weeks, although the virus can persist for several months and rare cases extend to 3-4 months of symptoms. Her daughter was ticketed months before the end of her supposed treatment for mononucleosis. 

Sarah undertook actions that are simply unbelievable in a mother if her story were taken seriousl, and the recommendations of her physician are beyond belief. They only sensible explanation is that she needed to be at that facility in order for the switch to be pulled successfully with the connivance of her physician. The story smacks of excuses made up on the spot by Sarah in order to excuse herself, because she was medically unschooled.

There are no photos from the period in which Sarah appears pregnant, and her appearance contrasts sharply with other pregnancy photos tha have been found.

The child, Trig, was supposedly born 1 month premature, and yet, the baby was home with Sarah 3 days after the birth. That would not happen with a preemie.

Ergo, Occam's razor says Bristol is the mother.

While it is true that mothers over 40 have a higher risk of Downs syndrome, most children with Downs are born to young mothers because most babies are born to young mothers.

Further, there is an increased risk of having a Downs syndrome child if the baby has a father over 40.

by John Toradze (7 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 16 comments) on Saturday, September 6, 2008 at 3:53:23 PM
 

Assumptions

I believe Friar William would be asking that his principle be removed from your argument, which relies on as many assumptions to prove that Bristol is Trig’s mother as that she is not.

Your recent support for the “certainty” of Trig’s maternity is about as rock solid as the cup of Jello pudding in front of me.

First, you claim that Bristol was absent from school for eight months.  As you will find in about a 30 second Google search, Bristol’s absence from school is being said to be anywhere between three and five months, and if we include your assertion, three and eight.  As we all know, the internet is the best place to find facts (??!!?).  At the age of 21, I too was diagnosed with mono, and my symptoms lasted easily four and a half months, though I certainly concede that I may have been misdiagnosed, the fact remains that the symptoms matched those of mono, and did result in my being unable to complete my first semester of that year in college.  So, my questions regarding this part of your argument are, did you have an opportunity to examine Bristol during the three to eight month period in question, and is it possible for a person with mono, or something similar to drive a car?  I’m not asking whether or not a doctor would condone it, I’m simply asking whether or not a person with mono could conceivably drive a car while infected?  I drove myself to and from the doctor’s office.

Your second claim deals with Sarah’s actions during pregnancy.  I don’t know if you’re specifically referring to the story of when she went into labor, or the stories of her workouts during pregnancy, but lets take these two in reverse order:

On the Governor’s workouts during pregnancy:  The actress Joan VanArc is (or at least was at one time) an avid runner.  She would run every day.  She even ran while pregnant, up to and including the day her child was born.  Every day.  The child was born healthy.  The wife of one of my co-workers was ordered by her doctor to bed rest from week eight to delivery.  Clearly, there is a vast difference among women regarding the physical limitations on their bodies and those of the fetus during pregnancy.  This is true even from one pregnancy to another in the same woman.  Though Governor Palin is a runner, she has said that her workout regimen changed during her pregnancies, tending toward the safety of the fetus.

On the Governor’s actions after her water broke:  I will admit that I would not want my wife to travel on a plane under those conditions, but again, I think we can agree that each woman’s case is different.  For example, last November (2007), a woman eight months pregnant was visiting family in Traverse City Michigan, against her physician’s advice, when her water broke.  Wanting only her OBGYN, the woman got in her car and drove home to Indianapolis, alone – an eight hour drive on roads in Michigan in November.  Smart?  Given only that information, I would say not very, but the woman delivered a healthy, 6 pound 8 ounce baby boy early the following morning – she had been in excellent physical condition before and during her pregnancy.  If you’re relying on the typical Hollywood portrayal of one minute the pregnant woman is fine, and the next minute the baby is born in the taxi, sure it happens that way sometimes, but very often it takes a lot longer than that.  Again, did you have an opportunity to examine the Governor in the hours before Trig’s birth?

Your claims regarding the lack of photographic evidence during her pregnancy:  Again, a pudding claim.  One woman can carry a baby one way, and her next baby a different way.  Ask women who have had three, four or five babies.  Sometimes they show very early, and sometimes they don’t until much later, and often it dependins on how they dress.  Several photographs I have seen of the Governor taken in February, which would have been in her sixth month, show a form which is very appropriate for that stage of pregnancy.  Now, to go back to Hollywood, watch episodes of Seinfeld or Everybody Loves Raymond, just to name a couple.  At times during those series, regulars were pregnant during filming.  In both cases, there are scenes within the same episode where either Julia Louis-Dreyfus or Patricia Heaton look one time obviously pregnant, and then depending on the clothes or the angle, not at all.

Finally, and I’ll make this short because I’m getting tired of trying to convince you and the rest of the Babygate perpetrators of something you will never accept or admit, on your claim regarding the 3rd day homecoming for Sarah and Trig.  Again, if you can show me some hard evidence that a premature baby has never gone home from a hospital in fewer than three days, I’ll give that one to you.  But the fact is, it happens all the time, and it all depends on the condition of baby and mother.  Again, did you have an opportunity to examine Trig at any time during those three days?

I am convinced that if some nut on the internet made the claim that Rush Limbaugh was actually the son of Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun, saved from the bunker at the last minute, I guarantee there could be enough “evidence” gathered, hard as pudding, to “prove” that he was, or at least to convince those who hate conservatives that there is no proof that he wasn’t.

As someone else once said, “Even logic requires some fact…”  So far, you have none, only assumption made to fit your hypothesis.

by Martin (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments) on Monday, September 8, 2008 at 10:38:49 AM
 

DNAgate

The national security matter is not the question of the childs parentage. The security breach would be the fact that the GOP VP choice could/would lie so easily to the entire world. Of course, there has been a great precedent set already, so perhaps it is a non-issue, as we continue to allow the current admin to lie, cheat and work it's machinations to the detriment and disgrace of our country.

I personally don't care who the blessed little one belongs to. If the child should belong to the the daughter, so what. It only goes to show that children of ultra-conservatives will continue to rebel and that those same ultra-conservative parents will pretty much do anything to save face. And it is also apparent, considering the daughter's current "condition", that all that abstinence crap doesn't go very far once the hormones kick in.

To paint the situation with the brush of rumor and innuendo does us all a great disservice. Let's stick to the facts regarding Mrs Palin's politics and personal beliefs. They are troublesome enough.

On a lighter note, perhaps Palin's campaign theme song should be Billy Idol's "Nice Day for a White Wedding".

I really feel sorry for the mom and dad to be, shotgun nuptuals rarely bode well.

by Kathy Stuart (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 29 comments) on Thursday, September 4, 2008 at 10:35:13 AM
 

I am not a Palin supporter

In fact, I could not bring myself to vote for her for any position but I find this hypothesis unlikely.  Down's Syndrome is a genetic defect caused by a broken chromosome, usually from a mother who is nearing the end of her childbearing years.  Thus, in choosing whether to believe he is the child of Mrs. Palin or of her teen-aged daughter, I would be inclined to opt for the former on that basis alone.

by Mary Pitt (66 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 185 comments) on Friday, September 5, 2008 at 9:27:45 PM
 

You need to read my response article to critics

Please reread the article. I have identified a possible blackmail threat to the country.

See: http://www.opednews.com/articles/-Beyond-question-versus--by-John-Toradze-080903-355.html  "Beyond question" versus "innocent until proven guilty"

While it is true that Downs is more common with older mothers, it is not true that most babies with Downs are children of older mothers. Most children are born from young mothers.

Further, there is an increased risk of Downs if the child has an older father.

by John Toradze (7 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 16 comments) on Saturday, September 6, 2008 at 4:00:28 PM