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October 15, 2008 at 14:48:22

Headlined on 10/15/08:
Why I'm Voting for Barack Obama on November 4

by Dave Lindorff     Page 1 of 2 page(s)

www.opednews.com

 

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By Dave Lindorff

Okay, I was going to vote for Ralph Nader this November 4.

It was an easy decision. I live in Pennsylvania, which is now, according to all the polls, reliably in the Obama column, with the Democratic candidate holding an insurmountable lead in the polls of 14 percent over Republican John McCain—enough to overcome even the most devious Republican vote suppression techniques and voting machine chicanery.

I was going to vote for Nader because I find Obama to be a seriously flawed candidate. He ran early on an anti-Iraq War platform, saying not that invading Iraq was wrong legally and morally, but that it was “the wrong war.” Since then, he has backed away even from saying he wanted the war ended, opting for a 16-month withdrawal timetable that would have the killing and dying in that sad land going on longer than most wars this nation has fought. He has also called for an escalation of the war in Afghanistan, despite clear evidence that more troops just will make the situation there worse, and has called for an expansion of the US military budget, to increase the size of the Army and Marines, which will only encourage more warmongering, more killing and more waste of precious resources.

Obama also sold us all out by going along with a bill sought by President Bush granting immunity to telecom companies that aided and abetted the illegal and unconstitutional spying on Americans by the National Security Agency—spying that we now know is massive almost beyond our imagination, even including the monitoring of private family conversations of American service personnel in Iraq, of journalists, and almost certainly of Bush administration political “enemies.” By backing that obscene bill, Obama has made it almost impossible for victims of this police-state surveillance campaign to sue and find out what the Bush/Cheney administration has been up to all these years.

In so many ways, Obama has tacked to the middle or even the right, while spouting soaring but empty rhetoric about “change.”

Meanwhile, everything Ralph Nader says makes perfect sense. He has consistently called the Iraq and Afghanistan wars the crimes that they are. He has consistently called for a nationalized health care system, which every other modern nation has long since proven to be a more cost-effective and health-effective way to run a medical system than the failed free-market approach advocated by Obama and the rest of the Establishment political system. He has correctly denounced the economic bailout as welfare for the rich and for the corporate criminals who have been sucking the life out of the US economy for years.

And yet, I think I have to vote of Obama this year.

The reason is partly because I know I would vote for Obama if I lived in Ohio or Indiana, where the race between McCain and Obama is too close to call, and so, to vote for Nader when it is simply safe to do so here in Pennsylvania is really a cop-out.

But even more important, when I see the hate-filled racists and right-wing yahoos braying at McCain and Palin rallies, when I hear people calling for Obama to be killed or lynched, and when I see the rabid hate mail circulating in email inboxes falsely labeling him as a secret Muslim, a terrorist, a Marxist and a black nationalist, I want to see the man resoundingly win this election.

But it’s more than that. I also, perhaps against all logic and experience, admit that I expect something good of an Obama presidency.

Call me naïve, but based upon my own life experience, I keep thinking that a guy who has worked as a community organizer, a Harvard Law School grad (and even law journal editor!) who could have named his price at a Wall Street law firm, but who chose instead to be a political and community activist, a guy who has relatives who live in humble surroundings in Kenya, and who spent some of his childhood actually living in a Third World Asian nation, not to mention a guy who has surely felt the sting of being called a nigger, has to bring something new to the White House. Certainly no other president in the history of the country has come to the office with such a background.

Sure Obama is no leftist candidate. But if he were, he wouldn’t be heading for an election victory. He wouldn’t even be the Democratic nominee. He’d be, at best, where Dennis Kucinich is—holding a seat in Congress where his every progressive effort would be stymied or mocked by the House leadership.

The unfortunate reality is that the true left in the US is a joke (many of its purists even mock successful left candidates political figures like Kucinich, for god’s sake!). Fractured and fractious small groupings have little or no link to the organized labor movement—traditionally the bedrock of any successful left political power. And the labor movement itself is as weak as it has ever been and keeps growing weaker. The left in the US, such as it is, has even less connection with the broad mass of the American public, thanks to years of successful propaganda linking it to Stalin, Mao and Soviet Communism.

I have no illusions about the progressivity of the Democratic Party. Certainly it has its progressive elected officials who have made it into office—people like Kucinich, Sen. Bernie Sanders, Sen. Russ Feingold, Rep. Maxine Waters and the like. But clearly, the Democratic Party has shown itself to be in thrall to the moneyed interests on Wall Street and in the corporate suites.

That said, there are important things that could happen—and I stress the word could, not would—if this election were to be won by Obama and by Democrats in the Congress. One of these things is that there will be new Supreme Court justices named over the next four years. Some will inevitably replace some of the aging “liberals” on the bench (some of whom have not always been so liberal on economic issues). Some could also replace current conservative justices (Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, both obese men, don’t look terribly healthy to me, Justice Kennedy is getting on in years, and even Chief Justice Roberts, while looking hale, has a problem with epilepsy or some other ailment that has caused him to collapse in a frothing fit of unconscious on occasion).

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http://www.thiscantbehappening.net

Dave Lindorff, a columnist for Counterpunch, is author of several recent books ("This Can't Be Happening! Resisting the Disintegration of American Democracy" and "Killing Time: An Investigation into the Death Penalty Case of Mumia Abu-Jamal"). His latest book, coauthored with Barbara Olshanshky, is "The Case for Impeachment: The Legal Argument for Removing President George W. Bush from Office (St. Martin's Press, May 2006). His writing is available at http://www.thiscantbehappening.net

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25 comments

Psychiatrist, retired Colonel from US Army.
Interest in confidence building and conflict resolution. American politices.

Ali khajawallPsychiatrist, retired Colonel from US Army.
Interest in confidence building and conflict resolution. American politices.

McCain will endorse Obama

McCain-Palin bad for USA.

Dear concerned citizens of America and Mass Media of the U.S.A.
As a concerned registered independent voter, forensic psychiatrist, disabled American I made my decision to vote after taking into consideration following joint tickets attributes and characteristics.
 
1. Has the ticket shown adequate calmness, coolness, and connectedness's under pressure to lead our nation  [Presidential Temperament]?

2. Has the ticket shown sustained sound "Judgment and Caliber"?

3. Has the ticket shown adequate understanding of depth and degree to address the crucial challenges in their their purpose, policies, and positions [ Honesty, integrity and sincerity]?

4. Has the ticket sufficient "understanding and knowledge" of inside Washington workings [Experience]"?

5. Has the ticket reservoir resilience,  wisdom, and vigor to address the present and future f our beloved "Great-grand Nation"?

6. Has the ticket enough joint foreign policy experience and exposure based on " Values, Virtues, Vastness, and " [American moral soul]"?

7. Has their campaign talk, slogans, ads, plans, and programs based on facts and are they free of fear, fiction, frivolous labels, unfair attacks, negativity, and impulsively? [No "imminent danger to national security and safety"].

8. Has the ticket genuinely kept on message of country first and politics last and   avoided  copying  [Message change"]?

9.Has the ticket message stayed away from Culture divide and war[ Disaster prevention ]?
10. Has the ticket  resisted being surrounded, supported and  surrogate's by divisiveness, distortion's, and destructive characters, [ Real patriotism VS shiftiness and shameless parrot-ism]?

11. Has the ticket thoughtful, real non-partisan, & non-impulsive plans to address our current economic crisis or political tactics and temperamental statements.
I have  personally and professionally concluded that OBAMA-BIDEN ticket will lift and inspire our greatgrand nation back to its greatness within and restore our global standing with the use of maximum, firm
international diplomacy and minimal force if and when indicated {" Peace thru Strenght "}.

12. The era of responsibility has to replace irresponsibility and unaccountability will change to accountability and transparency. The Wall Street greed will change to Main Street need.

13. Temperamental and Angry McCain is out to play and create a card mistrust and distress around Obama with the Vail of claim that he will bring bipartisanship in Washington DC. He is destroying him claim every by painting Obama naive. It is tragic, sad, and unfortunate that so called Maverick McCain has already generated a disdain and demeaning face off in the debates and bailout suggestion. Obama is real Presidential and he maintained a smile during the debate and while McCain had a constant grin and disdain towards Obama.

Yours sincerely,

COL. A.M.Khajawall [Ret] MD.
Forensic psychiatrist, Disabled American Veteran and Iraq
Freedom team. Grass roots California leader per Senator McCain's
PS: Endorse Obama and become bipartisan Maverick again.

by Ali khajawall (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 16 comments) on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 3:13:24 PM
 


Richard Mynick is a US citizen who, despite the best efforts of the corporate media, noticed something disturbing about how the 2000 election was decided, & felt it augured poorly for democracy.
Richard MynickRichard Mynick is a US citizen who, despite the best efforts of the corporate media, noticed something disturbing about how the 2000 election was decided, & felt it augured poorly for democracy.

Say it ain't so, Dave! // Aren't you the guy who urged all

your readers last spring to quit the Democratic Party, & to send DP officials letters explaining exactly why?

I understand what a disaster McCain would be, of course. But if Obama is really solidly ahead in Pennsylvania, your vote is not needed to avert the fate of a McCain presidency. In that case, why cave in to a party & candidate whose egregious shortcomings you're so aware of? In this situation, Nader (or some other worthy progressive candidate) needs your vote more than Obama does. The idea of breaking the duopoly needs your vote -- it's a righteous cause. If it weren't for the tyranny of the duopoly, we never would have been in this mess in the first place -- as you well understand.

by Richard Mynick (2 articles, 3 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 1210 comments) on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 3:17:12 PM
 


Steven Leser specializes in Politics, Science & Health, and Entertainment topics. He has held positions within the Democratic Party including District Chair and Public Relations Chair within county organizations.

Steven Leser writes for www.opednews.com, an internet only media site that has grown to become one of the highest traffic news sites in America, reaching more traffic, according to alexa.com, than all but the thirty largest daily newspapers in the US. Mr. Leser is one of t...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Steven LeserSteven Leser specializes in Politics, Science & Health, and Entertainment topics. He has held positions within the Democratic Party including District Chair and Public Relations Chair within county organizations.

Steven Leser writes for www.opednews.com, an internet only media site that has grown to become one of the highest traffic news sites in America, reaching more traffic, according to alexa.com, than all but the thirty largest daily newspapers in the US. Mr. Leser is one of t...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Rich, I would point you to...

this http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/1933/330223.htm letter from Trotsky to a Social Democrat, circa 1933.

I don't think it is ever inappropriate for the various left groups, disparate as those are at the extreme ends, to come together for an election to defeat the far right.

I have always been of the opinion that a progressive shift (however one defines that) is not ever going to be achieved at the ballot box. It is going to be achieved by various people and groups convincing people of the correctness of those positions in between election years.

People generally do not believe what politicians promise during an election campaign and it is a poor time to try to convince anyone of new ideas.

by Steven Leser (226 articles, 49 quicklinks, 34 diaries, 1630 comments) on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 4:24:25 PM
 


Richard Mynick is a US citizen who, despite the best efforts of the corporate media, noticed something disturbing about how the 2000 election was decided, & felt it augured poorly for democracy.
Richard MynickRichard Mynick is a US citizen who, despite the best efforts of the corporate media, noticed something disturbing about how the 2000 election was decided, & felt it augured poorly for democracy.

OK, I gotta admit, that's a very relevant historical analogy

in many ways. Broadly speaking, I take your point.  :) //  I certainly understand the need to defeat the far right -- especially at a time like this, & with Republicans as exceptionally repellant as McCain & Palin.

So if one lives in a "battleground state" (as Dave doesn't!), I can more or less swallow hard, & accept the unlovely idea of voting for the Democrats. To be honest, I'm glad my state (Calif) isn't shaping up as a battleground state, & that the election seems like Obama will win without much difficulty. It would be very painful for me to feel pressured into voting for Obama.

I know about Trotsky's "united front" stance in 1933 -- while he was already living in exile from the Soviet Union. But I've never seen that particular letter. Thanks for pointing me to it!

Interestingly, in 1936, when the Spanish Civil War erupted, a somewhat analogous situation presented itself, called the "Popular Front" -- an alliance of center & left groups aimed at halting the rise of fascism. But in this case, Trotsky advised his followers against adopting a united front strategy.

by Richard Mynick (2 articles, 3 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 1210 comments) on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 6:35:26 PM
 


Dave Lindorff, a columnist for Counterpunch, is author of several recent books ("This Can't Be Happening! Resisting the Disintegration of American Democracy" and "Killing Time: An Investigation into the Death Penalty Case of Mumia Abu-Jamal"). His latest book, coauthored with Barbara Olshanshky, is "The Case for Impeachment: The Legal Argument for Removing President George W. Bush from Office (St. Martin's Press, May 2006). His writing is available at http://www.thiscantbehappening.net
Dave LindorffDave Lindorff, a columnist for Counterpunch, is author of several recent books ("This Can't Be Happening! Resisting the Disintegration of American Democracy" and "Killing Time: An Investigation into the Death Penalty Case of Mumia Abu-Jamal"). His latest book, coauthored with Barbara Olshanshky, is "The Case for Impeachment: The Legal Argument for Removing President George W. Bush from Office (St. Martin's Press, May 2006). His writing is available at http://www.thiscantbehappening.net

Yeah I am the guy

In case you noticed, nobody signed on. I got about 200 people. Not a single mass resignation demonstration in a single town in the country. My point being, the left is a joke.

So we vote for Ralph. All what, one hundred thousand of us maybe? And for what? If we're lucky, we throw a couple of states McCain's way. Wow. We showed 'em.

Look, if there were a chance of a third party becoming a kind of balance of power, like the Greens in Germany have done, or the NDP in Canada, I'd be on board in a minute, but we don't have that here.

 So now we have an election in which we can elect a war maniac who sings "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran" and sees everything in terms of a battle, who is unlikely to last four years, and who would be followed by an end-of times believer who baits blacks, hates homos, opposes women's rights, thinks cavemen rode dinosaurs, and lets her husband run the show behind her back.

 Or we have a black president, raised by a single mother, with relatives in Kenya, who is obviously not a greed head, and who has two young daughters he obviously wants to have a future. I go with that. Time is short, and there is a crisis just over the horizon that's going to require brains, sanity, and leadership. Maybe Obama won't measure up to the task, and maybe Nader would (he probaably would!). But this is not a race between Obama and Nader, or between McCain and Nader. Nader is not going to be president. So I'm saying this time it has to be Obama. That's no contradiction. It might have been different if resigning from the party had caught on. It didn't. In fact, the Democratic party's registration numbers have soared, in case you haven't noticed.

 Leftists have to be realists. The worst of all are the utopians.

 

by Dave Lindorff (354 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 163 comments) on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 6:15:25 PM
 


Richard Mynick is a US citizen who, despite the best efforts of the corporate media, noticed something disturbing about how the 2000 election was decided, & felt it augured poorly for democracy.
Richard MynickRichard Mynick is a US citizen who, despite the best efforts of the corporate media, noticed something disturbing about how the 2000 election was decided, & felt it augured poorly for democracy.

I was just kidding (or let's say half-kidding). I understand

the arguments on both sides, & certainly realize that you know them as well as anyone does.

I wasn't questioning the need to defeat McCain, who is truly abhorrent. I only questioned the pragmatism aspect -- ie, that since Obama is ahead by something like 53-40 in Pennsylvania, it's not absolutely mandatory for every last serious progressive to vote for him.

When you express your understandable disappointment with the pitiful state of "the Left" in this country, I know it's all true. One can't give up, though -- & besides, any rebirth of progressive politics here is going to need writers like you. The minute President Obama starts selling us out, as he surely will, I'll look forward to reading your analyses of it!

by Richard Mynick (2 articles, 3 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 1210 comments) on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 7:11:46 PM
 


Currently I'm a cartoonist and contributing writer for The New Orleans Levee. For those wishing to view my work you can see my latest at: nolevee.com
Mr MCurrently I'm a cartoonist and contributing writer for The New Orleans Levee. For those wishing to view my work you can see my latest at: nolevee.com

Damn, I must be one of those horrible "Utopians" - who knew?

Yeah, all of those people that have seen through this corrupt system for a long time now and could see this world for what it could be instead of what it is sure are a bunch of horrible people, worst of the lot.

Well, you sure convinced me, I'm going to hold my nose to stench of corruption, shut my eyes so I can't see that sameness of these two sock-puppets for elites, and cover my ears to their lies and kick my morals over the cliff of reality and do what you're doing ... or not.

I'm still voting my heart and my head and when I do go to vote it won't be quietly, I will make it known while I'm there that I'm not happy with the machine I'm voting on, the candidates I'm being forced to choice from and not give a damn if I disrupt a process that is killing us all.

For if truth be known the so-called fragmented "left" you mention is really much more vast and cohesive than you are letting on. They are the 50% of the people that don't even bother to participate in a process that left them a long time ago, and as such they have left, and if it wasn't for the massive propaganda machine and the system that keeps them disenfranchised, and yes that even includes Counter Punch, if anything could get their participation there would be a sea-change of such a magnitude as to sweep not only this nation but the planet.

But, oops, there I go again, being one of those damn Utopians.

by Mr M (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 15 diaries, 1686 comments) on Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 9:15:01 AM
 


'The people are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.' Thomas Jefferson 1787
Munich'The people are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.' Thomas Jefferson 1787

Re: Say it ain't so, Dave!

Thank you Richard for reminding us all of that.

Dave, what's up?  Say it ain't so!

Barack Obama voted with Bush Co. on FISA, the American peoples phones are being tapped, mine included. Why though?  Is it because I just can't stand the tyranny and treason? Ah, no big deal, right? So "Mista Change" Obama voted for the wire tapping, and then sells us out on this bailout (extortion) Bill, which isn't helping the American people one bit. Maybe after it trickles down some?

Vote a third party candidate if you want real "CHANGE." And not this phoney-baloney Democratic-Republican left-right paradigm.  They're like a old scratched 45 RPM.

 

by Munich (0 articles, 74 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 900 comments) on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 6:19:52 PM
 


Dave Lindorff, a columnist for Counterpunch, is author of several recent books ("This Can't Be Happening! Resisting the Disintegration of American Democracy" and "Killing Time: An Investigation into the Death Penalty Case of Mumia Abu-Jamal"). His latest book, coauthored with Barbara Olshanshky, is "The Case for Impeachment: The Legal Argument for Removing President George W. Bush from Office (St. Martin's Press, May 2006). His writing is available at http://www.thiscantbehappening.net
Dave LindorffDave Lindorff, a columnist for Counterpunch, is author of several recent books ("This Can't Be Happening! Resisting the Disintegration of American Democracy" and "Killing Time: An Investigation into the Death Penalty Case of Mumia Abu-Jamal"). His latest book, coauthored with Barbara Olshanshky, is "The Case for Impeachment: The Legal Argument for Removing President George W. Bush from Office (St. Martin's Press, May 2006). His writing is available at http://www.thiscantbehappening.net

I discussed his sellout on FISA

I'm not ignorant of that outrageous and gutless position. I said Obama is flawed.

But you aren't explaining how that vote for a Third Party brings us change. I'm not seeing it. And with the climate change crisis, we don't have time to build a third party. We cannot afford four or eight more years of ignoring of this issue, which is guaranteed with McCain/Palin.

 I also challenge you to tell me that the election of Obama will not be a historical act. It's not just that he is African-American. He is also part Third World, given his father and relatives in Kenya. He is also from a poor, single-parent background. He has also worked as a community activist. Find me a president with all those things in his background.

I do believe that people can be transcendent, and given the difficulties this country and the world face in the next few years, and the catastrophe we all face if these difficulties are ignored or pushed off, I'm willing to throw the dice and hope I get good numbers on this bet.

Your third party option risks gettting us a president Palin, given McCain's obvious health issues and age. 

 

by Dave Lindorff (354 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 163 comments) on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 10:03:04 PM
 


Stanimal is ???

I hear cries for freedom elsewhere, while the US becomes less so. I hear support for free markets, then demanding a bailout due to incompetence.
I roll my eyes at those that accuse others being oppressed while the US has and still continues to the same and much worse. Laughing at pinheads who purchase and profit from those they curse.

Every time I return to visit I see a country I no longer recognize. A shredded Constitution, a spineless Congress ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

StanimalStanimal is ???

I hear cries for freedom elsewhere, while the US becomes less so. I hear support for free markets, then demanding a bailout due to incompetence.
I roll my eyes at those that accuse others being oppressed while the US has and still continues to the same and much worse. Laughing at pinheads who purchase and profit from those they curse.

Every time I return to visit I see a country I no longer recognize. A shredded Constitution, a spineless Congress ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

If all the people would stop voting

for the lesser of 2 evil candidates, and vote Mike Gravel, the only candidate for real change, then there would be just that. Nader is a self promoter who paid the driver to wreck the Corvair, so he can't be trusted as he is part of the problem with no solutions. Bob Barr is a lying multiple marriage infidelities scumbag who is part of the problem too.

Obama has signed on with the status quo of Bilderberg, CFR ,NWO agenda and will change absolutely nothing.

The War Of terror will continue, possibly opening up new fronts with Pakistan and Iran.

Illegal and immoral investigating of innocent law abiding tax paying citizens will go on.

So a vote for Obama is a vote cast for the Republican-Lite candidate. Progressives who vote for Obama are sellouts and as spineless as the recent SOB's occupying Congress.

 

by Stanimal (0 articles, 4 quicklinks, 23 diaries, 668 comments) on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 4:30:29 PM
 


Science is a passion.
sometimes blindedScience is a passion.

Common sense

. . . hasn't been particularly common on OpeEd lately.  It's good to read some, Dave! 

As others have pointed out here, a third choice is ok when the stacks aren't high, when the differences in the mainstream two aren't significant, and when the third option has been well organized, supported, and strong enough to hold it's own.

My one correction would be to keep climate change as your number 1 issue and not global warming.  The changes you speak of will likely be in the form of extreme cold this winter, heavy precipitation in coastal regions, drought in moderate, midwest areas, late spring with flooding, and hot, short summer next year.  Those conditions will not reflect warming so much as climate change.

by sometimes blinded (1 articles, 44 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 210 comments) on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 6:06:32 PM
 


Dave Lindorff, a columnist for Counterpunch, is author of several recent books ("This Can't Be Happening! Resisting the Disintegration of American Democracy" and "Killing Time: An Investigation into the Death Penalty Case of Mumia Abu-Jamal"). His latest book, coauthored with Barbara Olshanshky, is "The Case for Impeachment: The Legal Argument for Removing President George W. Bush from Office (St. Martin's Press, May 2006). His writing is available at http://www.thiscantbehappening.net
Dave LindorffDave Lindorff, a columnist for Counterpunch, is author of several recent books ("This Can't Be Happening! Resisting the Disintegration of American Democracy" and "Killing Time: An Investigation into the Death Penalty Case of Mumia Abu-Jamal"). His latest book, coauthored with Barbara Olshanshky, is "The Case for Impeachment: The Legal Argument for Removing President George W. Bush from Office (St. Martin's Press, May 2006). His writing is available at http://www.thiscantbehappening.net

I'm talking about much more serious things

It is likely that during the next president's term we will  see huge sections of continental ice slide off of Greenland and Antarctica, noticeably raising sea levels. It is likely that the north polar ice will melt away completely. It is likely that then we will see huge "burps" of methane from undersea cathrates and from melting peat bogs on land bursting into the sky and accelerating warming. It is likely that we will begin to find huge dead zones in the sea, caused by acidity and oxygen starvation. These kinds of crises, and others as yet unimagined, are going to force critical changes in our societies and our political systems. We cannot have a McCain, or more likely, a Palin, at the helm at that moment.

by Dave Lindorff (354 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 163 comments) on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 6:21:55 PM
 


Alan McConnell is a retired mathematician, who
lives near D.C. and can deliver written messages
to House and Senate offices.

alan17b0Alan McConnell is a retired mathematician, who
lives near D.C. and can deliver written messages
to House and Senate offices.

Dave L has gone emotional on us

Dave simply has forgotten the logic of our

admittedly flawed electoral system.  What is one

to make of his paragraph:

  The reason is partly because I know I would vote for Obama if I lived in Ohio or Indiana, where the race between McCain and Obama is too close to call, and so, to vote for Nader when it is simply safe to do so here in Pennsylvania is really a cop-out.

What does that mean?  It seems to be some kind of metephor;  but if so

it is obviously a distorted one.   For it is clear that one does NOTHING

for the Obama cause, or for the voters of Ohio or Indiana, by voting

for Obama in Pennsylvania.

For the umpteenth time: Liberals in ME, NH, VT, MA, CT, NY, NJ, PA,

DE, DC, MD, MI, IL, IA, WA, OR, CA . . . and ID, WY, UT, AZ, TX, LA,

AL, etc,  have a Free Vote.  Use it!

Yes, I know that Cynthia and Ralph and Bob and Ron have very little

traction, publicity, etc.   But what is the alternative?  to stay

forever trapped in mindless acquiescence to Duopoly power?

where our political spectrum varies from Palin on one side to

Pelosi on the other?   (hand me quick my rusty razor . . . )

No, the chance to break out of this system must start today.

Look at all those states listed above!  Suppose 10,000 people

in each of them voted for Cynthia or Ralph or Bob or Ron.

That simple act would give millions of people hope.   Which

precious commodity is now in short supply.

Best wishes,  Alan McConnell

by alan17b0 (14 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 36 comments) on Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 7:31:47 AM
 


Midwesterner, veteran of VietNam era naval service, I still feel an obligation to defend the Constitution against "all enemies, foreign and domestic."
John Sanchez Jr.Midwesterner, veteran of VietNam era naval service, I still feel an obligation to defend the Constitution against "all enemies, foreign and domestic."

I have been flailing about for some time...

trying to make many of the same points, largely to no good effect. However, the way you organized and argued these points is both compelling and incontrovertible. Here is something that I can learn a lesson from. Thanks.

by John Sanchez Jr. (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 1266 comments) on Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 9:12:36 AM
 


Retired university professor.
francineRetired university professor.

If pigs could fly

"if all the people would stop voting for the lesser of 2 evil candidates, and vote Mike Gravel, the only candidate for real change, then there would be just that."

And if all the human beings in the world started being nice to eachother and hold hands, there would be no more wars and we would be a big happy family.

How old are you, fifteen?

by francine (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 361 comments) on Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 11:30:00 AM
 


I am a conservative independant. I believe in the Constitution of the United States.
Jay TimminsI am a conservative independant. I believe in the Constitution of the United States.

One Other Thing

One other thing folks, break out the vaseline and grab your ankles Uncle Sam just turned socialist. Obama wants to redistribute wealth, just open your wallet take out what is left in there and throw it up in the air, the Amero will be in a bank near you soon, just take the NAFTA Super Highway to get there and hopefully you won't hit one of the Mexican trucks full of Chinese junk that is littering the highway on your way to a new ending of Democracy.

by Jay Timmins (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 103 comments) on Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 12:00:41 PM
 


Margaret Bassett is an 86-year old, currently living in senior housing, with a lifelong interest in political conumbrums. She hopes to hold out for one more presidential election. Bachelors from State University of Iowa (1944) and Masters from Roosevelt University (1975) help to unravel important requirements for modern communication. Early introduction to computer science (1966) trumps them. It's payback time. She's been "entitled" so long she hopes to find some good coming off the keyboa...

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Margaret BassettMargaret Bassett is an 86-year old, currently living in senior housing, with a lifelong interest in political conumbrums. She hopes to hold out for one more presidential election. Bachelors from State University of Iowa (1944) and Masters from Roosevelt University (1975) help to unravel important requirements for modern communication. Early introduction to computer science (1966) trumps them. It's payback time. She's been "entitled" so long she hopes to find some good coming off the keyboa...

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Dave, I often read your articles, because I think you are

wise.  That says half of it.  But how I know you well enough to read  your reasoned opinions is because of what you wrote about the night MLK was murdered.  I'm in your camp, friend.

Now I want to spend my minutes asking you to watch a couple of videos.  I quicklinked both.  One deals with "O'Bama is Irish" and the other came in today about the realtime encounter between Barack and the real Joe Plumber.  

Thank you for putting yourself before the public the way you do.  

by Margaret Bassett (31 articles, 1963 quicklinks, 30 diaries, 1279 comments) on Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 12:21:12 PM
 


Having lived six decades now, I've had a lot of experiences! Grew up in a family often oppressed because of our faith - we stood for peace and against war, and for the rights of all regardless of ethnic background. Active from youth in peace and civil rights. Vietnam-era draft resister. Worked for a while for peace and social justice groups, and then became a civil servant. Felt a call to a consistent life ethic, and am currently serving as President of Consistent Life. All this is out of Chr...

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Bill SamuelHaving lived six decades now, I've had a lot of experiences! Grew up in a family often oppressed because of our faith - we stood for peace and against war, and for the rights of all regardless of ethnic background. Active from youth in peace and civil rights. Vietnam-era draft resister. Worked for a while for peace and social justice groups, and then became a civil servant. Felt a call to a consistent life ethic, and am currently serving as President of Consistent Life. All this is out of Chr...

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Take him seriously

"Finally, with respect to war and militarism, I tend not to take Obama’s warmongering seriously."  The hope that a politician is better than he has consistently talked and voted is the stupidest reason you have given.  Look up his first speech against the Iraq War in 2002.  He spent most of it assuring people that he believed in war.  Look at his positions in votes and speeches ever since.  He's been quite consistent.

Even if he secretly believed something else, it is clear that he has determined that politically he should not be for peace.  That won't change once he is elected.  Rather, he might feel it necessary to prove he's serious about being for war - which McCain wouldn't need to do.

If you'll look at the history of major wars, the current wars are an exception.  Most major wars have been started under Democrats.  The Democratic Party is not a peace party.

Who knows what Obama really believes outside his political ambition, and what shaped his thinking.  But he did grow up more in Oahu than anywhere else, and that is an extremely militarized island, with military bases everywhere you turn.  I wonder if that milieu has had a great influence on his views of the military.

"I simply can’t see a smart guy—and Obama is a smart guy—getting dragged into another quagmire."  Obama is certainly smart, but there have been very smart guys around every war.  Intelligence does not inoculate one against military misadventure.  The history of Afghanistan shows that it firmly rejects the influence of any outside power, so it very obviously will be a quagmire, but Obama has long advocated escalation there.

War is not rational.  People start wars from emotions.  Listen to Obama talking about killing bin Laden.  Obama hides his emotions, but it seems to be coming from the gut.  And note his position on the death penalty.  He admits it is not effective, but nevertheless supports it because he says society needs to wreak vengeance.  That is not the attitude I want to see in someone who can push the nuclear button.

by Bill Samuel (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 330 comments) on Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 1:39:04 PM
 


'The people are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.' Thomas Jefferson 1787
Munich'The people are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.' Thomas Jefferson 1787

Re: Why I'm Voting for Barack Obama on November 4

Dave:


You're a brilliant guy, and I truly understand your concerns. However, I'm not one for voting for the lesser of two evils. Why do I say this?


Please explain to me why it is that if elected, Barack Obama insists upon sending more troops to a war torn Afghanistan? They had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. They didn't!


Having said that. Why are we even in Afghanistan in the first place? Is it really about battling terrorists and perhaps subduing the bumper opium crop? Or, is it about fortify the military bases which are strategically situated along the Caspian oil pipeline? That's fact.

If I could digress for just a moment to mention that there are over 500 prominent architects and engineers who believe that all three of the Trade Towers were brought down by a controlled demolition on 9/11. Why is that? Surely all of these people can't be crazy? Then we need a new investigation into 9/11. We need to find out who it was that attacked this country on 9/11. Because this is why we invaded both Afghanistan and Iraq.is it not? Does Barack Obama agree to a new investigation? I know Cynthia McKinney does. But what's that have to do with politics and running America? Everything.


Otherwise Dave we'll only continue down this truculent path of perpetual war for perpetual peace.  


Lastly, we know McCain is out ta lunch. He's on the dance floor but just can't quite get close to the band. But I thought that just once! Once! I would of heard Barack Obama utter the words "World Peace." It wasn't mentioned in the first debate and I don't believe I heard it mentioned last evening. Why?  Perhaps it just isn't profitable?

by Munich (0 articles, 74 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 900 comments) on Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 1:43:22 PM