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August 24, 2008 at 17:23:24
Promoted to Headline (H2) on 8/24/08: by Phillip Butler Page 1 of 1 page(s) |
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John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I won’t vote for him for President of the United States. When I was a Plebe (4th classman, or freshman) at the Naval Academy in 1957-58, I was assigned to the 17th Company for my four years there. In those days we had about 3,600 midshipmen spread among 24 companies, thus about 150 midshipmen to a company. As fortune would have it, John, a First Classman (senior) and his room mate lived directly across the hall from me and my two room mates. Believe me when I say that back then I would never in a million or more years have dreamed that the crazy guy across the hall would someday be a Senator and candidate for President! John was a wild man. He was funny, with a quick wit and he was intelligent. But he was intent on breaking every USNA regulation in our 4 inch thick USNA Regulations book. And I believe he must have come as close to his goal as any midshipman who ever attended the Academy. I could tell many midshipman stories about John that year and he unbelievably managed to graduate though he spent the majority of his first class year on restriction for the stuff he did get caught doing. In fact he barely managed to graduate, standing 5th from the bottom of his 800 man graduating class. I and many others have speculated that the main reason he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates. People often ask if I was a Prisoner of War with John McCain. My answer is always “No – John McCain was a POW with me.” The reason is I was there for 8 years and John got there 2 ½ years later, so he was a POW for 5 ½ years. And we have our own seniority system, based on time as a POW. 
John’s treatment as a POW:
1) Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to September of 1969. After September of 1969 the Vietnamese stopped the torture and gave us increased food and rudimentary health care. Several hundred of us were captured much earlier. I got there April 20, 1965 so my bad treatment period lasted 4 1/2 years. President Ho Chi Minh died on September 9, 1969, and the new regime that replaced him and his policies was more pragmatic. They realized we were worth a lot as bargaining chips if we were alive. And they were right because eventually Americans gave up on the war and agreed to trade our POW’s for their country. A damn good trade in my opinion! But my point here is that John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals.
2) John was badly injured when he was shot down. Both arms were broken and he had other wounds from his ejection. Unfortunately this was often the case – new POW’s arriving with broken bones and serious combat injuries. Many died from their wounds. Medical care was non-existent to rudimentary. Relief from pain was almost never given and often the wounds were used as an available way to torture the POW. Because John’s father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely seen. But it must be known that many POW’s suffered similarly, not just John. And many were similarly exploited for political propaganda.
3) John was offered, and refused, “early release.” Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to “admit” that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was “lenient and humane.” So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW’s were released, with the sick and wounded going first.
4) John was awarded a Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroism and wounds in combat. This heroism has been played up in the press and in his various political campaigns. But it should be known that there were approximately 660 military POW’s in Vietnam. Among all of us, decorations awarded have recently been totaled as follows: Medals of Honor – 8, Service Crosses – 42, Silver Stars – 590, Bronze Stars – 958 and Purple Hearts – 1,249. John certainly performed courageously and well. But it must be remembered that he was one hero among many - not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe. Among the POW’s John wasn’t special. He was just one of the guys.
John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and tenacity. More than 600 of us did the same. After our repatriation a census showed that 95% of us had been tortured at least once. The Vietnamese were quite democratic about it. There were many heroes in North Vietnam. I saw heroism every day there. And we motivated each other to endure and succeed far beyond what any of us thought we had in ourselves. Succeeding as a POW is a group sport, not an individual one. We all supported and encouraged each other to survive and succeed. John knows that. He was not an individual POW hero. He was a POW who surmounted the odds with the help of many comrades, as all of us did.
I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate.
Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60’s and 70’s. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John’s age (72) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for 4 or more years.
I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button.
It is also disappointing to see him take on and support Bush’s war in Iraq, even stating we might be there for another 100 years. For me, John represents the entrenched and bankrupt policies of Washington-as-usual. The past 7 years have proven to be disastrous for our country. And I believe John’s views on war, foreign policy, economics, environment, health care, education, national infrastructure and other important areas are much the same as those of the Bush administration.
I’m disappointed to see John represent himself politically in ways that are not accurate. He is not a moderate or maverick Republican. On some issues he is a maverick. But his voting record is far to the right. I fear for his nominations to our Supreme Court, and the consequent continuing loss of individual freedoms, especially regarding moral and religious issues. John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist ministers. I was also disappointed to see him cozy up to Bush because I know he dislikes that man. He disingenuously and famously put his arm around the guy, even after Bush had intensely disrespected him with lies and slander. So on these and many other instances, I don’t see that John is the “straight talk express” he markets himself to be.
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I don't get it.
Comment from Ratings: I don't think that McCain believes that being a POW qualifies him to become president of the US. I get so tired of hearing that illogical premise. I'm assuming that you believe that writing 2 books qualifies you for becoming the president. How about belonging to a racist church for 20 years? Let's not forget having very little executive experience. What about being so liberal that he seems almost communist? How about his justification for infanticide. Oh, I know, it's because he's black. I think the reason that conservatives bring up McCain being a former POW is to highlight the fact that he put his country first. He wasn't sitting around at some militant church bad-mouthing his country...he was off in a foreign country defending people like Rev. Jeremiah Wright. You people are in love with Obama and I genuinely don't understand why. I'm African American so throw the "r" word at me like you would anyone else. Obama is no messiah - not even close. Here's a typcial Obama speech "Change blah, blah, blah, they're wrong. Change blah, blah, blah that's a bad idea. Change blah, blah, blah I have superior judgement." He offers no solutions to anything...he just offers "change". Not all change is good and his is one that I absolutely do not believe in. by B D (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:07:32 AM  (0+)
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Reply: BD You're Mistaken
Yes, John McCain has touted his 'war experie nce' many times as 'qualification' to be president. by JOHN LORENZ (23 articles, 118 quicklinks, 119 diaries, 313 comments [25 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:24:05 AM (0+)
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Reply: Uh,
McCain has ZERO "executive experience" also. by JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 2:17:11 PM (0+)
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Reply: Explain specifically how Obama is "so liberal he's almost
communist". I don't think he even qualifies as a "liberal," let alone a communist. Also, you are confusing Obama & Rev Wright. Obama never said anything that could possibly be interpreted (even by an ignoramus) as "bad mouthing his country." And in fact, you're dead wrong about Rev Wright, too -- because he spoke the truth about the US. I challenge you to give us some specific examples of what he said that you think was incorrect. You probably just don't know enough about US history to understand how right he really was. By the way, I'm not the slightest bit "in love with Obama." I would never even consider voting for him, or for McCain, because I see them both as unacceptably militarist. Neither is committed to defending the liberties guaranteed by the Constitution, & both are agents of corporatism & plutocracy. by Richard Mynick (2 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 1552 comments [255 recommended, 5 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 2:31:35 PM (0+)
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Reply: I don't get you,
You people (republicans) cry about abortions then let it slide that your illustrious leader allowed planes to fly into the towers and the pentagon killing thousands of "live" people and then LYING in order to start an illegal war, killing, maiming and displacing millions more "live" people. I guess that in your mind a fertilized egg with no prospect for any sort of future beyond being the starving, abused child of a drug addict is far more important than a living breathing soul with loved ones and purpose. You're no "brother" your just another bought sheep. Like every other republican you let your so-called morals call your moves, thumping your "holier than thou" chests while you murder and create grief for 2/3 of the earth so you can make a buck. You're all F'n hypocrites. by PeterJ (16 articles, 3 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 236 comments [53 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 3:00:52 PM (0+)
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I get it.
It's nice to get an opinion about John McCain from someone who knew him before his campaign. Thank you for your article and especially thank you for your sacrifice for this country. by Ron R. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 152 comments [11 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:44:08 AM (0+)
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thanks
Its good hear the truth about a candidate from someone who knows his character first hand. I hope you can tell us more as the election goes on. by Ben Kall (1 articles, 16 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 35 comments) on Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 4:58:05 AM (0+)
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more info please
Your article's title was interesting, but the article itself failed to deliver the details. The first two thirds of your article seemed to be downplaying the significance of a POW, in my book all POW's have earned the respect and gratitide of the nation, one for volunteering/serving the country, and two for living through being a prisoner and coming home with dignity. Alone it's no reason to elect someone president, but as part of the package it's certainly not a detriment to someone's respectability or character. I was convinced more to want to vote for him by your comments about how long he was tortured and held, I was also detecting some level of bitterness by you because your POW experiance was longer and harder, I would think you would be proud that a fellow POW would be elevated and esteemed because by extension it also elevates you and your sacrifice. You eluded to JM's tendancey to break the rules, but you didn't elaborate with examples and citations, you also eluded to his temper without examples from your own experiance of him. It's really hard to just take your word for it without hearing the full story, I think your point would have been best served if you had concentrated on these points rather than putting a lot of time into JM's POW credentials, for me, any POW is a hero, end of story, I believe this is a pretty widely accepted thought too. Your last reasoning about JM being the same as Bush on the war and Economic issues doesn't do much for anyone since these views are a dime a dozen, everyone has an opinion about these things based on the same reasons you gave, there is nothing unique about those views. Again, your personal contact with McCain is what drew me into your story wanting to hear more, not your political opinions or comparison between POW experiances... I write this in all respect, just was disappointed to not really get a unique reason why you won't be voting for McCain... also, what's your conclusion, will you be voting for Obama, if so, why? by Joseph Fountain (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:45:36 AM (0+)
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Reply: re: more info please
Well, as David Gruder explains below, I recommend you listen to the man's interview with Rob. It's about a half an hour. I think you'll find most of your answers there. by Terry (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 36 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 11:34:39 AM (0+)
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WHO CARES?
I do not see why anyone would care for whom this individual would vote or not vote? He certaqinly gives no reason why I should care or even why he would not vote for Senator McCain. We all likely agree that being a POW is not a qulaification to be president, but hopefully, we also agree that it is not a disqualification. by E Lew (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 6:54:16 PM (0+)
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Reply: Definitely not a disqualification
The disqualification that trumps all others is exactly the one Mr. Butler points out: John McCain will continue the policies of George W. Bush. For 100 years, if it's up to him. So if you like the job 'W' has done the past 7 years, you'll love President McCain. by JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 at 1:43:40 AM (0+)
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Reply: The knee jerk POW response
McCain USES to the extent of abuse, his POW experience. He gets asked a tough question and instead of answering it, in the present, dealing with issues and today's realities, he throws a semi-glib remark about his being a prisoner. It gets tired and overused. He hides behind it, rides it to death. That's because, besides being a politico funded by a beer heiress, and a man with a known hot temper, he doesn't have that much to say for who he is. So he constantly uses his POW history. by Rob Kall (953 articles, 4178 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 2:46:14 PM (0+)
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This is relevant because McCain...
Comment from Ratings: is using his POW status to trump his idiotic positions... by Son of our Father's (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 1:00:10 AM (0+)
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Before you weigh in with your opinion about this article...
I strongly suggest that you first listen to Rob's interview with Phillip Butler, which you can access through the links toward the top of this page. For me, Butler explains in much more detail during the interview what he observed about Senator McCain as a fellow midshipman and how he connects his observations from then with how he sees Senator McCain functioning as a politician today. As a psychologist who is also a non-partisan integrity analyst I believe this kind of personal information is valuable for citizens to have in assessing who the candidates really are (assuming, of course, that Butler truly doesn't have an ax to grind). I would like to hear a similar interview with someone of similar apparent goodwill who knew Senator Obama in a similarly personal way. David Gruder by David Gruder (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 5 comments) on Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 2:22:20 AM (0+)
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