Roberto.

by GLloyd Rowsey (104 articles, 65 quicklinks, 60 diaries, 828 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 2:54:15 PM

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Rob,

The fact that everyone's idle cash 'shrunk' is not the real story of the envelope.  The envelope is your membership in the ponzi-scheme, where everyone tries to squeeze the poor by proxy.

 As Gandhi said a long time ago, you must be the change you want to see in the world.  Why blame Wall Street for the collapse when you fund the addiction? 

 -> You should take a minute to read the front page of my website. Why does Jesus tell us to give away our money?  What is the problem with idle cash?

 Interest is only paid by the poor to the rich. While you are getting ripped off for your child's education, and are putting him in debt, too, with your other hand you are taking interest monies.  You are divided intellectually and financially, and fail to take a full measure of what you are doing.  One hand is a slave, the other is a master.  You cannot be happy and free in such a state of mind.

In 1929, after the crash, had the ponzi-system been abolished, there never would not have been a 'never-again' of WWII.  Why didn't people say 'never-again' after the crash in 1929?  Instead, "they" (we) protected the ponzi scheme at all costs, and 50+ million people died.

(As many people have been evicted from their homes as were killed in the Holocaust, yet the middle-class is worired about numbers on a piece of paper, rather than people!!!!!) 

 I won't be getting one of your envelopes.  I left the system as soon as I understood it. You can only win by making somebody else a loser.  How is that an act of kindness or compassion?

Like cannibalism, why are you complaining when it is your turn in the pot?  They system is working exactly as you built it.

by Steve Consilvio (18 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 184 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 6:53:25 PM

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Address the charge:

Democrats cracked put the egg in the microwave.

Republicans turned it on high.

You, me, our children, have to clean up the mess and we're still starving while they get paid to service the oven.

by Intelitary Milligence (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 40 comments) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 7:59:33 PM

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 Let it fall... Let karma rain... as it does seem as though (they/we) have learning disabilities ! I did NOT get an envelope either, In fact I was cheated out of my stimulis and I don't care... we should be growing food for americans across this nation, without a hesitation, the actions speak in volumes. We will not go quietly into that good night, rage, rage against the dying of the light, give me liberty or give me death !

by Kimberly C. Townsend (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 6:43:18 AM

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Excellent points! I salute you, fellow drop out from the capitalist ponzi scheme. Stay healthy, Brother!

by Papawhale (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 69 comments [19 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:05:06 AM

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... its working. And that is despite anything being done by either party or either candidate. Because Obama is not the cause of it, McCain or anyone else attacking Obama will not fix it. The American people have decided whom to blame all by themselves.

by Steven Leser (255 articles, 58 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 2147 comments [63 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 8:20:57 PM

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Before somebody thinks of blaming us...

by UncleSim (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 512 comments [74 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 8:33:36 PM

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Are you serious? Are you suggesting that bush had nothing to do with this? If so, could you please sight how he didn't since he's been in charge for the past 8 years?

And don't get me wrong, as far as I'm concerned bush is a bit player, nothing more than a sock-puppet for those that dictate to him what policies are to be employed, but even in that capacity he is guilty as such. But by what measure of intellect you can claim bush is free of responsibility for this calamity smacks of a partisanship that makes you blind to logic and incapable of seeing things with any amount of clarity worthy of discussion, that is unless of course you can explain in any clear fashion how bush escapes any responsibility.

And good luck with that.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 10:26:59 PM

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So, you think that Bush and the neo-con, Reaganite agenda of deregulation which has continued through both Bush I and Bush II administrations have nothing to do with the melt-down we're experiencing now and the world-wide calamity we're facing?

Sorry, but as they say,"That dog don't hunt." Check in with reality more often, my friend.

by DC Rapier (28 articles, 73 quicklinks, 56 diaries, 114 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 2:02:18 AM

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I'm sorry, this debacle is all part of the Republican plan, originally initiated by Prescott Bush against the FDR Administration, to rob the American Public of their self-governance, and their money.  How?

First, they stole the elections.  Is there any real question of that reality anymore?  Then...

The Rs deregulated Wall Street.   Wall Street went on a speculative rampage, selling investments of unknown value to insurance companies, pension funds, mutual funds and any other derivitive vehicle which people bought for their 401ks,

Though ultimately the fault of the investor for blindly throwing money away, the losses stem from undervalued and worthless investments which Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Investment Banking community touted to the public.  The investment rating services lent a hand.   Unbridled speculation, abetted in part by ridiculously low margin requirements, fueled the fire.  The use of the Comptroller of the Currency's office to emasculate state regulation over mortgage origination practices produced the "sub-prme" (read "worthless") mortgages, ready for bundling.

Sorry, Phil Gramm's insane deregulation policies opened the floodgates.  Ruthless Republican Speculators flipped bad paper, sucked millions from the system, and left a dry husk.  And here we are, pressured by threats to productive employers, bailing out the banks that made it possible.  So, they help the speculators rob us, we have to bail them out to keep our jobs, and consequently the worth of our savings drop.

We were robbed first of our votes, then the vote thieves robbed our wealth.  What a suprise.  Now, it just remains to be seen how ruthless the Rovian administration, under President Palin, will be.

by GitarChris (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 142 comments) on Friday, Oct 17, 2008 at 10:02:06 AM

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From what I have seen in the last few days, Republican pundits are finally making consistent and compelling arguments laying the blame for the ecomomic meltdown at the feet of the Democrats who supported Freddy Mac and Fannie Mae and the irresponsible buyers that sought to buy homes much more expensive than they could afford.  While this argument is ignoble, specious, illogical, fallacious, and damn near criminal, it still sounds convincing, and that is all it takes to swing the fulcrum from Obama to McCain in these last weeks.  American voters are oftentimes not deep thinkers.

Additionally, with the theft of probably over 4 or 5 million votes being blamed on the "Bradley Effect," for which we are even now being conditioned, I fear close polls going into the election will result in a November 5th surprise.  The battle in the streets that is sure to follow will give GWB the excuse he has needed to declare martial law, and yet still maintain a sense of legitimacy as he peacefully transfers power to McCain, the "legally" elected President of the United States. 

Don't worry.  Be happy.  We will all be vegetarians soon, eating MRE's or nothing, but we will have made a great point by voting third party and helping to bring about this joyful scenario.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 7:25:58 PM

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It's interesting that you posit that when the polls show an Obama victory and the vote COUNTS show a McCain victory that there will be a "battle in the streets."

I don't think so.  I think they will be much hand-wringing in the media, some yelling in the progressive media (as limited as that is), much consternation and CAPITAL LETTERS in the blogosphere, some anarchists protesting in the streets (cause it's what they do) and not much else.

The only thing that could mobilize the protests of which you speak would be for Barack Obama to call for it, and I would lay 1000 to 1 odds against that happening.  No, make that 10,000 to 1 against.  It just will NOT happen.

by Charlie L (2 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 747 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 9:46:48 PM

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this time is that the candidate being robbed is African American.  The black community has been the salvation of America at large on other occasions because they are not afraid to hit the streets when something stinks in the political or police process.  Not only is Obama a chance for all of us to have an actual progressive in office for the first time since FDR, but he is the final hope for racial justice for the African American community.  Black folks prevented in significant numbers from voting will know it, and history suggests they will not stand for it.  While whites are so thoroughly brainwashed and bought off that they would never risk losing what little they think they have through violent resistance, many people of color have long had nothing to lose and will see violent resistance to an illegal vote as a natural progression of events.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 5:46:12 AM

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A BAD OMEN of things to come way back when Jr first announced he was running for pres the dow lost over 300 points the next day while Clinton was still president with less than a year left to serve. Jr has now wiped out all the gains made since the Clinton days and we're back to a Dow hovering around 8600. American voters usually vote their pocket book when it affects them directly in an election year, and this massive stock market meltdown and the quarterly reports that come in the mail affected everybody alike, and the blame falls on whoever is in the White House. Come election day its Jr's fault no matter what, and every single Repug should pay by getting tossed out of office. Every last one of them. Tossed. That Dow has to be built back up again, slowly but surely, and there's no Repug anywhere capable of restoring what Jr lost during his two terms. A debacle of monumental proportions, a looting of the Treasury beyond belief, and a complete disregard for everyday Americans trying to get ahead and achieve their American dreams. 

by Gene Cappa (43 articles, 28 quicklinks, 113 diaries, 347 comments [33 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 7:26:25 PM

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Do you remember that Clinton wanted to apply his trillions of dollars in surplus to securing the Social Security and Medicare programs for the future?  Bush ran on the plank that if the citizens had overpaid in taxes, those taxes should be refunded to the taxpayers rather than applied to bolstering the failing Social Security program.  I have waited in vain to hear Obama bring that little tidbit up against McCain who voted in favor of Bush's tax cuts and now admits that Social Security and Medicare benefits for future recipients will have to be cut deeply.  Had the Republicans listened to Clinton, these social programs would be on strong footing throughout the 21st century.  It sickens me that the MSM and the American people have no historical memory, and that the Democrats fail to use such arguments against the Republicans when  they are so readily provable and available.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 6:12:33 AM

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...and just think: If Bush had had his way privatizing Social Security, where would all THAT be right now?

Time to call a Pig a Pig, lipstick or no!

Greedy

Old

Pigs 

by Bia Winter (6 articles, 2 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 756 comments [119 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:28:05 AM

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I agree that the GOP is driven by greed, but the "Old" part of your description may not fit.  The new, younger Republicans are flooding the party with their version of a socially conservative but liberal spending ideology designed to bankrupt the government so that "it will be so small as to be swallowed down the drain of a bathtub."  When GWB was appointed as the 43rd president, the Young Republicans were chanting in the background, "Hey, hey, ho, ho, Social Security has to go!"  These are the same thugs that scared the Miami, Dade elections officials into suspending their recount for fear of physical harm as the Young Republicans pounded upon the door to the recount room screaming threats to stop the recount, and the police failed to respond to the officials' calls of distress. 

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 1:18:15 PM

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8 years of the worst management in US history, of literally lifting any oversight over the markets are what allowed this to happen along with tax gifts to the rich and frenzied foreign borrowing. In fact had Bush continued with Clinton's economic policies I'm convince we wouldn't be where we are right now. What I really had to laugh at was Face the Nation. Bob Sheiffer had an economic expert on the last segment of his show. He asked the guy were we in a depression? The guy said absolutely not! Then came the sponsor of that segment of the program-Exxon-Mobile. I would also like to refute what the other gentleman said about blaming all of us rather than Wall Street. Though he is correct many poor people didn't have IRA's because they were too poor to afford them, what he fails to realize are the vast cuts in social programs these people have suffered from as a direct result of the republicans. Some of them are also registered voters and they too know exactly where this problem came from. You can see the results in polls across this nation and short of another stolen election or a declaration of marshal law we will have a new president regardless of Jesus and regardless of pundit trolls who would tell us otherwise.

by Michael Shaw (12 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 439 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 7:27:51 PM

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Sure glad Obama didn't have anything to do with the economy.

Oh wait, he voted for the Bailout too.  And as a Senator, has failed to distinguish himself, economically at least, from the rest of the b*stards.

McCain is a fool, and sounds like one.  Obama is a fool, but sounds intelligent.  Which is more dangerous?

by UncleSim (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 512 comments [74 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 7:50:16 PM

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there are three pointing back at YOU. Obama's no fool.

I didn't like the bailout. Nobody did, including none of the people who voted for it. 

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 8:37:30 PM

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If they vote for something they don't like, after being told all week by their constituents that they don't like it either, then I call them fools.

What do you call people who deny not only their own good sense, but refuse to vote with the will of very people they pretend to represent?

I may be a fool.  I've had lots of good teachers.

by UncleSim (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 512 comments [74 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 8:53:30 PM

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When McCain overcomes you, all of the defaming liberal blogosphere, the 16 out of 17 Mideastern terrorist countries that want Obama in the White House; the irrelevant MSM; the superficial and Communist Hollywood celebrities; the liberal-leaning polling agencies; those who trivialize and do not appreciate his service to our country; all of those odds, to win the presidency. All you can support are ACORN and all of the liberal extremists in Congress, who are at the core of this whole "economic crisis".

Those of us who weren't greedy enough to purchase stocks and bonds, hoping to earn thousands -- perhaps even hundreds of thousands on them, are not suffering. Those of us who did not purchase homes that we darn well knew we could not afford, are not suffering. Those who live well within the boundaries of their income are not suffering. Those who put more emphasis on their family lives, rather than the economics of their lives are not suffering.

Let's put it this way. Those who were smart, are not suffering.

by Lisa Clark (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 32 comments) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 11:57:14 PM

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give it time.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 6:15:02 AM

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Lisa, we are among those you speak of who've always saved and not over-extended ourselves with debt and stupid material stuff we don't need.

But, unlike you, we're also  "SMART" enough to have figured out which side of our bread the butter's on, and which party got us in this mess! 

It had EVERYTHING to do with de-regulation, starting back in Reagan/Bush's day, and continued with almost the same cast of smarmy players -and THAT is what allowed these

Greedy

Old

Pigs

to wreck our country's economy and squander our moral authority with a ruinous unnescessary WAR..probably two, unless you buy the 9/11 ball of crap they sold you!

Of COURSE the Middle eastern countries want Obama! So does Europe and mosty of the REST of the world. The INSANE ignorant warmongers are the only ones who want McSAME, and like you, they'll bend over backwards to try and blame the Democrats for everything and anything.  

by Bia Winter (6 articles, 2 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 756 comments [119 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:43:21 AM

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If you really want to go back to where it all began, you can start with the Carter Administration.

That was when Jimmy "Traitor to our country" Carter, wanted to govermentally fund houses for those who could not afford them, to gain votes. He enacted the CRA (or Community Reinvestment Act) in 1977. Although it was originally meant to lessen the possibility of discrimination in both the housing and credit markets, there was never a line drawn between equal opportunity for those who could pay mortgages and those who obviously could not.  

In 1995, during the Clinton Administration, Barack Obama as a lawyer for ACORN, blackmailed the banks that were not complying with the CRA with discrimination lawsuits if they continued to turn down those who did not have credit or had bad credit. They then complied, because who wants to be sued and given bad publicity? CitiBank was one.

It continued to "bubble" throughout the years and eventually, came to the point where we are now, with the help of the liberals who blocked every effort by the GOP to provide more regulation with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Charles Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, etc. were just some of the culprits who were involved in either participating or covering-up the problems with the housing market. Testifying that things were "okay" and needed "no more regulation", are examples of statements that the liberals in Congress made. Why were they so persistent in deregulating the oversight with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? They used it to get votes. What else? They certainly weren't concerned with the futures of those who they trapped into compromising financial situations! 

But now, here you have low income families who could not afford a mortgage in the first place, going into foreclosure with the homes they received with what were called "NINJA" loans; No Income, No Job, no Assets -- all because of the banks that were forced to provide them. Liberal politicians were granted votes at election time, at the expense of the livelihoods of low income homeowners, who knew nothing of what was to eventually happen. So renting wasn't good enough, thanks to ACORN -- and their ever-so-diligent ex-lawyer.

by Lisa Clark (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 32 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:12:00 PM

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Jimmy "Lets put our shoulder to the wheel and end our addiction to oil" Carter lost to the Great Prevaricator 28 years ago. We've been stuck with the myth that "government IS the problem" ever since and that is at the root of all of our troubles. The fact that this election will put that sorry state of affairs to rest explains why the wingnuts are getting so frantic. They see their fantasy world of l'aissez faire slipping away.

First- check the Declaration of Independence. We formed this government of sovereign people to preserve our rights. And we were warned: eternal vigilence, "arm yourselves with the power that knowledge brings," "if you can keep it," and so on. Instead, in 1980, we went with the guy who said everything will be fine. Look at that  big shining house on the hill. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Second- Community Investment Act loan defaults are lower than industry averages. You need to balance listening to Rush with something less caustic and more newsworthy, perhaps elctroshock therapy.

Third- Although it is not defaulted mortgages per se, but how they've been hidden and distributed throughout the world's economy that's the problem, a huge portion of the bad paper came from mortgage mills, staffed by rich guy wannabes, living the GOP dream, ie getting rich without doing any work. They committed fraud and numerous other crimes in swindling poor folks into mortgages they couldn't afford.

Being willing to drop bombs on innocent civilians when ordered to doesn't make McCain a patriot.  Nor did crashing three planes, or was it four? Having the foresight to warn the country 28 years ago that it faced a huge challenge and needed to sacrifice to become energy independent does make Jimmy Carter one.

by WaltK (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 49 comments [13 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:57:29 PM

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Should I have quoted my sources, because my research came from an encyclopedia. Where did yours come from -- another leftist blog?

by Lisa Clark (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 32 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:02:38 PM

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noted left wing blog- Business Week-

click here

those other flaming leftists- the Federal Reserve Board-

click here

There's plenty more, most is boring, but don't blame an act that requires banks to lend money to its depositors. 

by WaltK (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 49 comments [13 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:38:27 PM

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An act? Well, there is a person behind that "act", who did not look into the future to enough to see the full consequences of his actions. You have to look at it both ways. Carter did enact the CRA, but the Clintons improvised on it, making NINJA loans easier to get and more accessible to those of little to no income.

If the Republicans emphasize more regulation, you have to know that since they are usually against more regulation, there is a damned good reason for them recommending it. By the same means, being that the Dems are usually more for big government, it was strange that the one time they refused more regulation, was when it came to providing more oversight to the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac corporations.

by Lisa Clark (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 32 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:00:57 PM

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It only applied to BANKS. Most mortage loans are not made by individual banks, certainly not sub=prime loans. Over 80% of those loans were made by lenders OTHER than banks.

CRA was passed to reduce red-lining where certain neighborhoods (read:black) were discriminated against. You really need to do some research instead of relying on Fox Noise talking points.

by camanokat (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 81 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 at 1:08:24 PM

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Okay, you just admitted that the terrorist countries along with those that are under sharia law, as well as Socialist and Communistic governments would like Obama to be in office! That speaks volumes of how naive some of you are, when you are supporting the very person who hates our country. Duh.

You will not know what freedoms you've lost, until they are gone. Say goodbye to our Constitution! Oh -- and watch everything you say, too, because our 1st Amendment rights will be gone, as well.

by Lisa Clark (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 32 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:13:01 PM

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Excuse me, Lisa, but those freedoms and rights are already gone!  The Republican majority Congress and Bu$hie have already taken:

1) Privacy - Patriot Act and ILLEGAL wiretapping

2) Free Speech and the Right to Peaceably Assemble - Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act as well as the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Act

3) Habeas Corpus - Military Commissions Act

The list goes on and on!

THOSE were done with the REPUBLICAN majority, NOT the Dems.  Those detention centers being built by KBR are at the behest of the Republicans and Bu$h/Cheney. They're for when Bu$h declares martial law.

You right wing folks are so far gone because all you see are the "oh-so-scary" wedge issues and not the whole picture.  YOU voted to have the biggest government with the most spending and borrowing the world has ever seen because Bu$h managed to frighten you about terrorists....who, by the way, are Bu$h family pals.

Our nation would be dramatically better off financially if we weren't so indebted to foreign nations and drowning in federal debt brought about by your pals, Bu$hCo and the Republican Congress.  We've been losing jobs and lowering wages because of the "free market" attitude that ships our good paying jobs overseas with lower wage ones replacing those lost.  But, hey, that's a great idea, isn't it? 

And before you jump on it, I KNOW that many lower paying jobs also have gone over, but do you realize that they are now sending engineering, computer programming, accounting, legal and other high paying jobs overseas too?  It isn't just about call centers and manufacturing cheap junk anymore.  They're even outsourcing medical jobs!  Yet everyone in favor of it says that "better jobs" are being created here.  WHERE???  More CEOs??  That's about it!

No, Lisa, it IS the fault of the Republicans.  Encouraging home ownership is NOT a bad idea.  It was the greedy bankers and mortgage brokers who kept encouraging folks to get in over their heads.  Most Americans don't understand all the legal jargon and will trust the bank, title company or their realtor to explain.  When that is done in a shoddy way, the people take what they're told, sign on the dotted line and are in trouble from the start.  Folks with less money could easily have been steered towards more modest housing, but the banks pushed for maximum benefit for their wallets with minimum time invested.

This whole debacle could and should have been headed off at the pass over a year ago.  Congress and the pResident should have made the banks refinance all those "toxic" mortgages into low interest, fixed rate mortgages with all overdue monies (say, up to 6 months worth) tacked onto the back end of the loan.  Give homeowners facing foreclosure a month's grace as well and those loans would almost all have been turned into better risks.  Add in raising the FDIC insurance rate and removing mark-to-market and we probably would have averted the entire fiasco.  Credit markets could have stayed more fluid and far fewer foreclosures would take place.  Even now, this COULD have been done. But the banks were greedy, Congress and Bu$h were stupid, and now we face financial disaster.

So, Lisa, YOUR "fearmongering" about losing rights under Obama is a joke.  They're already gone. Our money is gone. Our jobs are gone. Our homes are gone. Our nation is sold to foreign countries. Over 4000 of our soldier's lives are gone. Our budget surplus is gone. Our small businesses are going fast.

And you DARE to blame it on the Democrats????  It is because of people like YOU that all this has come to pass and more hell is on the way before people like Obama and, HOPEFULLY, a better Congress can start to make it right again.  Just what are YOU doing to make things better?

Go back to watching Faux "news" and listening to Coulter and Limbaugh spew their poison.  You, and they, obviously have no clue and no soul.

Meantime, anyone who likes this commentary...I AM running for Congress because it is time we get people who aren't buying their way in, people who live a life like you and I do without "golden parachutes" and WITH common sense.  Check out my website and maybe make a donation!

by Rebecca Schneider (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 at 6:53:24 AM

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 I love those who attempt to lump the individual "free-thinkers" into one category-"liberal".  

   Lisa, you represent to me , what ALWAYS will be wrong with mainstream Americans........they're too lazy, inept and naive, to find the REAL truth and see the history that created it. Always attempting to strip things down to an "us against them" issue rather than an honest and an unbiased and thorough view of the facts. All the facts. Including facts that come from  areas that aren't spoonfed to you by the very people who want you to believe they have your best interest at heart.

Crack a book once in awhile. Open your mind to the possibility that there are some in government who are only there because of EGO. There are those who think completely differently and are morally deficient because of a skewed world view, created of greed and generational arrogance taught them by those who have always been the ruling class.

 In my opinion, "Liberal" means "Truly Liberated". In every and all ways. It's a great feeling.....you should try it !

by joe thomas (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 1:18:24 PM

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What he said. :-)

by UncleSim (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 512 comments [74 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 1:44:10 PM

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So it's okay for you to call me "lazy, inept, naive", but it is not okay for me to call you a liberal, for whatever substitution you may want to use (i.e. individual "freethinker")? Hmm... I call a spade a spade, but you on the other hand, use some pretty insulting words to describe a person you don't even know. "Spoon-fed"? What a riot.

You may be able to intimidate others by twisting and turning the truth, but who are the "people who want you to believe that they have your best interest at heart"?  So simply because I may have a different view than you, you think you can disrespect me as you have? Seems more like you have some books to crack open and read up on getting along with others.

I've got news for you. If you think that all politicians don't have egos, then you need to do some more research. Educate yourself to become more tolerant -- to the point that you possibly could understand that others are going to have different opinions than you, whether you like it or not. Call my view "skewed" as you may, but I have my set of values and beliefs, as you have yours.

by Lisa Clark (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 32 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:36:49 PM

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Glad you're doing well. As a previous commenter said, give it time. Especially if McCain "overcomes" us. The results of another stolen election won't be pretty for anyone. I know plenty of smart, solid folks, who have never lived beyond their means, put their kids through college, and are now having to delay a well-deserved retirement because their 401K just dropped in value by a third. 

According to the great W, in the new ownership society we're all sharing in the prosperity brought about by a churning stock market. Don't recall him mentioning anything about greed. Were it not for us crazy liberals, our social security would be going down in flames right now too. I suppose you'll voluntarily pass on your SS check when the time comes.

This crisis is not about defaulted mortgages. It's about defaulted mortgages being hidden by wrapping them into multiple levels of derivative financial instruments, thus spreading the contagion worldwide. All a direct result of GOP Sen. Phil Gramm's fiscal wisdom in leading the charge to tear down the firewall between commercial and investment banking. 

The philosophy you blame for this mess, the greedy wanting to make big bucks on stocks and bonds is an an exact match to standard GOP economic theory.  Lots of evangelicals have told me that getting rich in this manner is proof that you are one of the righteous. Were they lying or just tools of satan?

One final note. Glad to see you spending so much time in the last few weeks here at Op Ed News. You don't seem to have gotten the idea that most of us aren't enamored of the MSM or give a runny cow patty about Hollywood liberals. But glad you're here and not out doing anything that could help your candidate. Although I didn't see "hacking computer voting systems" in your resume, and that's the only chance McCain's got to come out on top. 

by WaltK (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 49 comments [13 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:30:21 PM

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The possibility for another stolen election is already in the making, if you haven't already heard about ACORN, an organization that, here in Southwestern PA, has already submitted thousands of fraudulent applications.

Gee, I really have to thank you for reminding me of that aspect of the election! It just so happens that ACORN's abuse of the voting process is discovered in several states, so once they are all either charged with felonies, lying to the authorities and covering up a complete scam in order to get Obama in, perhaps this notorious organization will be dissolved. It will only be then, that we will have a fair election -- and no more NINJA loans.

by Lisa Clark (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 32 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:48:28 PM

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ACORN has become the right-wing's whipping boy. They had a few overzealous folks several years ago who went over the line, but their task is to register voters, and that is not a crime. They are required by law to turn in all forms submitted and are doing so. They are flagging suspicious forms. And I have a pretty good notion that the origin of the large number of fictitious names being turned in has something to do with a bunch of Lee Atwater/Karl Rove wannabes, thinking they're smart.

 Here in Washington State, where we heard the GOP screaming loudly about vote fraud that cost poor Dino Rossi the governorship, it turned out that the only organized fraud was that of a GOP nursing home owner who cast GOP ballots for all his comatose and non-responsive patients. 

There is ample evidence of organized GOP voter fraud, including purging legitimate voters from the rolls in Democratic areas, and outright tampering with electronic voting machines. Democrats are just trying to get everyone who has a right to vote the ability to do so. Why would Republicans be so scared of that? 

by WaltK (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 49 comments [13 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:11:54 PM

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....sending out deliberately incorrect early ballots to Democrats who did NOT request them is not election fraud??  That was THIS YEAR!  Those ballots are coming from McCain's campaign.  They either are being deliberately sent to previous addresses or are directed to the incorrect County Clerk's office so that those voters can be disenfranchised.  Ballot comes back "undeliverable", it is not counted.  Goes to the wrong office? Not counted.

The whole ACORN bit was ages ago.  THIS IS NOW.  How is that not voter/election fraud?  And why isn't anyone but the "liberal" media talking about it?  It certainly isn't on MSM or blogs.  It is a crime, but McCain's getting away with it.  You ought not to throw stones about election/voter fraud when McCain is overrun with it!

by Rebecca Schneider (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 at 7:11:15 AM

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But Ms. Clark, purchasing stocks and bonds is at the heart of capitalism and as you know, capitalism is the basis of the whole US economy. The problem did not arise from Democratic party policies. It arose from laissez faire regulations or lack thereof which the Bush administration supported 100%. Capitalism has been shown throughout the centuries to be the best system to raise the standard of living for the largest number of people in any population. But here's where the Bush administration and the Republicans are so wrong, it can't be unregulated or left to its own self regulation. Unfettered greed is just as bad for the greedy as it is for those who suffer the depradations of the greedy. They both suffer in the end. The other huge mistake the Republicans make is the unfair tax structure which overtly favours the already wealthy to the detriment of the middle class. Very foolish public policy that has resulted in today's problems. President Clinton for all his faults left a budget surplus in the hundreds of billions of dollars for  his successor to the office and those funds along with borrowed trillions were promptly wasted by Bush and the Republicans. Trying to change history at this juncture is an effort in futility, so don't even bother. Anyone with half a brain knows who to blame for this current economic mess and it isn't the Democrats!

by Archie (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1750 comments [111 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:05:48 PM

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Lisa - Ya got it all in there didntcha? Those big bad middle eastern countries, communists, etc. I was waiting to read about you complaining about Obama intending to pollute our precious bodily fluids. What stopped you?

by Steven Leser (255 articles, 58 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 2147 comments [63 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:33:49 PM

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by AlexH (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 14 comments) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 7:57:43 PM

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 Alex, About the wandering mccain, thank-u for making me laugh, so true and we r seeing what he/his have done to our once NON_gestapho free home arizona, I have to move my children out of here as in the last 20 yrs we've seen thousands upon thousands be made Insta-felons by age 18 over their want to make cannibas illegal, but NOT using our monies/taxes to STOP massive drug flow instead we send our non-drug kids left to die for a corporate war for what ? Gi bill? HA !!!! They r using drug flow to ruin youth's lives forever, NO american rights and its just a little too easy to become a felon here for youth, a BIG scam here. One half of the youth incarcerated behind "mandatory" drug laws, we spend $50 billion a yr on incarcerating them and only $8 billion a yr on education, when LACK of REAL education is the problem !!! other half fighting/dying in THEIR corporate war. Mccain served our country alright so did my dad and my uncle NEVER came home and Mccain's south american death squad connections make him the REAL terrorist ! Unless LOGIC bounces off one's head !

Is ignorance really bliss ? the question of the day...

We WILL see won't we ?

by Kimberly C. Townsend (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 7:13:27 AM

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on bailout. According to Naomi Klein Bush said he would make the stock market fall 1,000 points a day and if they voted yes he would declare Martial Law as it would be a catastrophy and he would have to control the uprising of the people.

So that is why we got a YES vote on giving the rest of our Treasury to Paulson and his buddies. 

I don't know why they won't impeach that b@$t@rd along with Cheney.

If he is impeached he can't declare Martial Law, and if he still can, then some Attorney General or Prosicuting Attorney can Arrest him and have them thrown in Jail for Treason.There are over 2,000 people that are eligible to have that power to arrest them. So lets hope some one has the guts to do it.

http://www.perkup.us/blog

by Mel Smith (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 60 comments [21 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 10:20:31 PM

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My mother started a trust fund for my son when he was a baby, to be used for his college expenses.  There should have been enough left over even after his last year (next year) for him to start off with a little something; after all, the odds are his job will take him out of this area (he wants to teach).  Of course, this year, the fund has lost so much money we'll be lucky if it actually makes it through next year (I had money put towards his education as well, but I was disabled a few years ago, which made it much more difficult for me to add anything else to it).  The thousands of dollars lost from what was considered a secure investment 20 years ago is disgusting.  Yet I also believe this is only the tip of the iceberg.

by Sharon COOPER (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 10 comments) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 10:24:51 PM

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The very foundation of the system we have is rotten. We've been creating illusions from illusions and now that reality has come knocking you're looking to prop-up the illusion to starve off the reality.

In this system when one gets fat another gets skinny. Now that a very few are getting obese a whole bunch of us are getting skinny.

Interest on money is a fraud. Creating money out of thin air is a fraud and most of you bought into the fraud though no fault of your own because its what we grew-up with, it's all we knew and had, and the fraud was sold to us as reality.

But there is only so long frauds can be perpetrated before they fall, because nothing built on deceit lasts.

And because it's all we've known it's hard to imagine anything else replacing it, but replaced it will be with a cold harsh reality that it is only what you can produce that has any worth and most of us can't produce much of anything worth squat.

Oh, they'll be all kinds of solutions suggested and most of them will be off the mark because they'll be using the same rotten foundation we have always known. Illusion upon illusion.

We have all probably learned more about the structure of our monetary system in the past month than most really understood before and I have heard only a few solutions that made sense and none of them involved using interest, fractional investing or derivatives.

When you can take a dollar and split it 10 times by 10 times by 10 times by 10 times and on and on it ceases to be worth anything anytime along the way when one of those splits fails.

Not only has it failed once, it failed from the first split on and there is no way all the kings men or all the kings horses can put this egg back together again. You can't make something from nothing.

We would do well to let it all fall and ignore those that to have it all and start our own monetary system free of interest and debt. For if it is all just an illusion those that claim it all in reality have nothing of value. For its only value is what our minds give it. For it's not backed by anything of tangible worth what value can it have but what we pretend it has, and pretense is exactly what it says it is. 

Once we went off the gold standard, where the paper you held could be redeemed for equal value of gold and it was only what our minds placed on it as value, it ceased to be real, for even when it was backed by gold it was an illusion, for you can't eat gold, can't burn gold to heat your house, wear it to keep you warm, but without the gold it truly is an illusion. Nothing built on nothing.

But between then and now there will be one reality we will not in any way be able to ignore for its value - hunger.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 11:34:21 PM

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 Everyone really KNEW as they were probably taught in bible school "money is the root of ALL evil", even though I am NOT religious I believe those words to be true and this "calamity" is the concequences of evil and deceit, a entire empire/empires collapsing to hills of dirt ! Let KARMA rain ! The monetary/democracy Cannot work, My answer is to GROW & create and barter, grow food in ur house or ur tents, start today ! stock water in place u know u can stay, grow herbs ! If u get homeless  Don't abandon ur animals ! They r ur family too, get gas masks, sleeping bags, dehydrate foods, first aide kits ( real ones) Sell everything or leave it, it means NOTHING ! Gather tents, jackets, gloves, food, back packs boots. We CAN survive this and rebuild america Let it fall! If u have a home grow food ! Help ur neighbors, This is a true test of our patriotism/humanism,

by Kimberly C. Townsend (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 7:37:09 AM

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No joke, This passionate rant/call to arms/revelation should be posted on every billboard in Despairica. It is at once an awakening and a hope, a plan to survive. Bravo!

It is instructive that the only time (I can think of) that Jesus displayed real and sustained anger was when he threw the "money changers" from the Temple. How does that square with being a Corporate Christian?

by Jay Farrington (13 articles, 2 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 236 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:23:00 AM

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It doesn't.  And if you note Acts 2; 44,45 and Acts 4; 32-37, you will see that Jesus taught the communal ownership of property rather than the private ownership of property.  Of course, one will never hear these scriptures preached in mainstream churches in America, but they are a vital part of the twelve traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous.  Marx, in fact, who was raised with a thorough knowledge of Christianity, used the above scripture as his source for his famous controlling principle of communism: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Despite the secular nature of Marxism, it has been said that the inspiration for this slogan lies in Christianity. An earlier exposition of the idea is found in the Bible, in Acts of the Apostles. Luke describes the organization of the first Christian congregations following the death of Jesus:

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 2:08:45 PM

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Maybe when you really can spell, someone might take you seriously. Until you do, it's not necessary to try changing the views of those who think / believe differently than you. Have you ever read the United States Constitution -- or are you one of those who would like to demolish / skew it?

Read up on the 1st Amendment, if you and others on this forum are not yet familiar with it. Just some good advice. ;-)

by Lisa Clark (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 32 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:00:47 PM

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 I am a Arizona native, family settled here in 1800 from Canada. U think Mccain is the man ??? We watched these people RUIN our home and turn it into a gestapho/police/military dictatorship/prison state.  Now they've got ALL youth Felonized by age 18, stripped of ALL american rights ! U cindy think this is AMERICAN? Not only that, but we found out that mccain is a board/house member for an Ultra-right wing death squad/nazi collaberator in south america, whom sold weapons to IRAN in the 80s to finance their death squad agenda ???? This is the America u want ? Perhaps they r counting on people like u and ur ignorances, as that is obviously how they've succeeded by people "voting AGAINST their own/family's better interests" for what ? COLD blooded killers whom r the ones that SHOULD be in their prisons !!! These generations WILL go down in history for changing the world. We do NOT need their markets ! grow food now ! Do NOT depend on them ! This whole digital tv/radio conversion is a corporate move as OUR govt has gone corporate, that's what republicans have done and allow drugs into our country ( the REAL war we should be fighting) And ALLOWED american's jobs to go to other countries? I mean it IS right in front of you !! Could u get any more ignorant? or are u like MOST republicans?... in DENIAL !

by Kimberly C. Townsend (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 4:25:36 AM

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 Monies are truley irrelevant to OUR survival on THIS planet ! Since Bush & co signed in 3/03 " the north american union" oops ! I mean " the north american trade agreement" has made north america ONE country and I laugh at these so-called "patriots" whom r protesting against the mexicans here in Az taking their jobs after The patriots MOVED here from depressed " outsourced job" states at the tune of doubling our population in a decade and took OUR jobs ? I am shocked at how many people do NOT know about the union or are in denial and refuse to believe it, even though it is a fact ! I am growing food IN my home for MY family, banks/corporations and others I will NOT mention sat in a room and conspired how to "enslave america" that is the TRUTH" and ALL of them are gulity of treason ! They IGNORE the people whom pay them at a tune of $250,000+ a year?? I want them ALL fired and they even rubbed our noses in it, arrows, raceways, and rum ( off-shore dummy corporations) Those of you whom care about ur children's future america MUST fire ALL of them ! It IS OUR responsibility and IF we do NOTHING ????? Whom then can we blame ?????

by Kimberly C. Townsend (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 4:47:20 AM

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 If u r FOR Mccain & Bush & co then u don't care if YOUR children fight/die in a CORPORATE war ! It is different to fight for ur country/home/family not turning military dictatorship/being invaded by ???? or because of the gluttons, then it is to MURDER innocents for CASH !( wether its guns, bombs or STARVATION) U call me a extremist liberal, because I believe WE are intelligent enough to preserve this planet, instead of progressing to destruction ?? I do NOT want a president that is trying to help start a war with Iran ( which seems pretty EXTREMIST to me), the very country his "right wing/death squad group" in south america sold weapons to in the 80s ??? Over/obscene military spending is INSANE/rogue and they want to put thousands of NUclear plants everywhere and our enemies( which are many now) won't need to build nuclear bombs... No, out with the BOMB, scew ur neighbors over for profit era is OUT ! Grow food then they cannot declare martial law ! Live off the land like tha native indians TAUGHT our ancestors ! In tents if u have to... TEACH ur kids, don't put them in govt hands ! (Stop participating in their Extreme corruption) ! Educate ( ur children) them on ALL things in THIS world that they will come  to, don't HIDE the truths of this world from them ! Teach them to grow food, to build, to hunt, to find water, this is what I am doing. Yes "single-MALE" students NO longer can get cost of living help, I take in young students whom r months away from graduation and OUR govt has turned their backs on ALL youth ! They'd prefer if they were ALL in prisons, felons or fighting/dying in their corrupt war ( then they can never change anything) and ALL of them( the govt/sworn to serve AMERICANs whom PAY them) should be convicted ! They've SOLD america/americans down the river and if one CANNOT see this ??? Then  I feel sorry for you when u get ur slap in the face of REALity ! I did NOT need to get a letter in the mail, My eyes can see prices, scam train ( worst in history) NO wages, NO jobs, No safety net that WE PAY for !

It appears as though OUR govt has been overthrown by corporations and banksare: IGNORANCE ! Let KARMA rain down !!

 A elder republican woman came on a show and said " how can they allow a man to come into our country ( a terrorist) and run for president ? This tells us what they are counting on ! IGNORANCE ! Is ignorance bliss? we WILL see.

Rogue military spending and partyin' around the globe on OUR backs is EXTREME, In fact it is ROGUE !!! Wake-up !!!!! or are u going to wait until ur being shuffled into a camp ( built by FEMA) with forced vacinations, mandatory drafts,  and if u think ur vote counts these days ?? ur a fool !! No more war mongers ! I mean the whole world hates us and I wanna know if they've sold american lands to foreign countries ( lets see whom the REAL felons are). NEW era of INTELLIGENCE ,Our youth have evolved passed  The war mongers divide & conquer tactics and we  can save OUR planet/country/children's futures, save america ! No markets !! We are divine in our creation ( humans) barter+ grow, create for trade as it was meant to be !

Education, NOT incarceration, Out with the old and in with the NEW ! America the FREE, give me liberty or give me death !

by Kimberly C. Townsend (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 5:48:54 AM

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 If a black person IS BORN on THIS continent ? They R NOT african american ! They are in fact AMERICAN..... Obama is NOT african american... He was raised by a woman!!!, If u think "whites" as ur labels and divide tactics say r stupid and brain washed ? Think again. They are purposely conned and kept in the dark ! also alot are " mis-informed" and they vote AGAINST their better interest why?, trusting the WRONG con-artists.  We've done alot of petitions, street work in SF,Ca for 20 yrs plus, Here in Az the dot, az mvd and city courts on the scam too, The poor whom cannot afford lawyers are getting the shaft and fixing ( double jeopardy) their deficit  with their family's grocery monies and they care NOT if the tax paying poor( america's back-bone) starve or die as long as they get every single penny of their monies/disability/pensions/retirement, I am watching them ( this state) do this to ALL the tax paying poor. It is simple: All they do is SAY they MAIL notices and THIS releses them of ALL accountability, even if it is 5 times in a row ??? soooo, NOT all whites are ignorant/worthless and Black americans have  definetly embraced  their lives in america, yet we ALL have a common enemy( rogue governments) divide tactics are irrelevant to survival on this planet, so is skin color !, as is religion, because  We Pink skins, or is it beige? hmm... well we WILL, WILL defend OUR home and we are IN the streets WE PAY for EVERYDAY speaking with neighbors, corruption gone wild here in Az ( the zone), How Idiots came to be in OUR white house? and now how to FIRE them all ! Take ur divide/racial tactics back to the library, do some more reading ! Get the facts !

by Kimberly C. Townsend (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 6:32:24 AM

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to take an opportunity and analyse the comments to this article with his editors as a perfect statistical sample. Those comments above (no offense) epithomize all the problems we are now facing on OEN- the wave of Hyde Park- type  noises, pure venting without much sense ( again, no offense) and with a lot of throwing stones at each other. I would remind   to those who are willing still to listen that comments are supposed to ADD VALUE.  And that is not about calling names. Sometimes calling names is fine. What is not fine and will never be fine is to double and triple the already said  nonsense and that I see in abundance. By noises I mean delusional paranoya ( like rants about communists  and liberals) as well as  wallowing about  this race or that race, etc. By noise I also mean the overexagerration of the  role of the ' average Joe who is mad' etc. I see no analysis of the driving forces ( please, spare me from  the New World Order stuff). In fact I  consider as noise anything which  (pay attention)  just follows as a  reaction to the MSM and that is about 90% of the comments  I read.  Only a step further, an analysis, an honest efffort to see the driving forces count.  That analysis, of course must be  based on the solid grounds of the ideology  preferred  and worked out as well as historical knowledge and so far I have to say  unequivocally that in the domain of comments ignorance and childish fascination with half-knowledge are  having a ball.  I am not patronizing: I am warning.  if we have more of that our 'nice friends' in DC will not have to worry about us at all.

Love you all

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:36:07 AM

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Dear Mr. Farrington ( this is a reply to particular comment but that comment since had disappeared and I still retain this as an adder to the first of mine above)

It is only in High School debates ( which we seem to come closer and closer to resemble here) people have not made their minds in advance. Adults  ALWAYS  have their minds settled in advance. That does not mean that they always  understand what they are in many cases but  they ALWAYS try to create legends about themselves, calling themselves liberals or conservatives or whatever 'ists'. they can to cover usually their interests, sometimes rather shallow but always dear to them.  As such I want  this site to which I dedicated  4 years of my participation to promote certain views and ADD VALUE in the way my (sorry ) livelyhood interests are protected. I happen to think that my interests coincide with the welfare of this country and its people. I also happen to  have made up my mind about that particular premise. Again, when I see that the place which I  consider my investment goes amok and publishes unfortunate noises ( including your comment, sorry) I come out as a person who wants that to be corrected. And I draw  the attention  of the management  to the discontent of mine.  I am not sure what 'paleface' means but as far as 'we' goes  I mean the people who like me  have vested interest in  the INFLUENCE  on the events  of life and death which are happening now and here   through whatever means necessary. I lost you?  Sorry, Sir I didn't mean to find you ( figuratively). You better find yourself, no offense.

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:14:52 AM

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Mr Sashine,

Thank you for putting me in my place. It is a place I have found myself in many times. As for finding myself, I would have sworn I did that long ago. What proves me utterly wrong about that is being involved in this exchange. If I had found myself, I wouldn't be; if we could go back in time.... Wait, I can. I'm heading for the time machine...

See you, mark, wish me luck.

by Jay Farrington (13 articles, 2 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 236 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:43:58 AM

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I sincerely wish you the best of luck, Sir and it does not mean you have to reread HJ Wells. It does mean though that in these times we all better see  how the particular events affect uss personally and   use  that knowledge to  promote those forces which should help us.

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 12:23:42 PM

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I assume you refer to my original comment when you speak of people "wallowing about this race or that" as adding nothing to the thread, but I beg to differ.  I think it is your lack of knowledge of American history that would lead you to make such a statement.  My argument to Rob was that with an African American candidate going into the election with a clear lead in the polls, if the white candidate should win, I do not think that American Blacks will sit idly by watching this once in a lifetime opportunity be stolen.  American history bears this claim out.

As a student of history, I have often agreed with the substance of your comments and articles, especially those regarding the Soviet resistance to German fascism.  However, in commenting on my position that black Americans have had a unique impact upon American politics, I fear you lack an historical insight into the politics of this country.  Understanding their readiness to fight is a direct comment on Rob's original article, assuming this election is stolen like that of 2000 and 2004.

Of course, before the Civil War, which caused the U.S. more casualties than all its other wars combined, numerous African American leaders led rebellions against slaveholders in the South leading to a society that was a virtual powder keg of fear of rebellion.  The best know of these rebellions was that of Nat Turner, but some slaves joined the white preacher John Brown in taking the federal arsenal at Harper's Ferry, which was finally retaken by Robert E. Lee.  

The Underground Railroad was started and run in large part by slaves and free blacks who constantly faced capture and resale into slavery once again.  During the civil war, African Americans not only fought for the North, but formed guerilla units operating behind enemy lines and faced certain and tortuous death if captured.  

Leading the way again, Black Americans successfully formed one of America's first unions, the Pullman Union, facing for fifty odd years killings,  beatings, imprisonment and torture, before the Pullman Union was finally established.

The civil rights movement and the Black Panther movement both preceded and morphed into the white anti-war movement and the Weather Underground, respectively, while retaining their separate identities.  The white radicals learned their trade from their more experienced African American brothers and sisters.

In addition, of course, the most famous conscientious objector in the history of the world, one who set the example for blacks and whites to come, was the heavy weight prizefighter Muhammad Ali.  

In all of these instances, the black Americans involved were not afraid of spilling their blood on America's streets long before the privileged Americans were ready to risk their bodies in resistance to injustice.  

Thus, I think you disrespect the great contribution of this people when you so lightly blow off my assertion that a stolen election from Obama will cause rioting in the streets.  African Americans have historically led other Americans into the fray when the moment was right, and they will do so again if this election is stolen.  Do not dare betray their great and sacred place in the history of this country with the flippant attitude you have used in addressing my argument made to Rob.  You simply are too knowledgeable to do so.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:32:59 PM

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...is that it is no longer backed by gold and silver, as it once was. If indeed it was backed by precious metal, it would hold more value and therefore, we would not have the problems we are now experiencing with the economy.

by Lisa Clark (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 32 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:15:12 PM

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is fun to watch. Its like watching a Tasmanian Devil on crack.

by Steven Leser (255 articles, 58 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 2147 comments [63 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:36:39 PM

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I would hope, in all the postmorteming of this situation, that those on the left would not lose sight of the interesting, canary-in-the-cage political assassination of NY Gov. Eliot Spitzer.  Google BrasscheckTV - Eliot Spitzer - political  assassination.  The Right is going to try to lay this fiasco at the feet of liberals who pressured Fannie Mae  and Freddie Mac to support mortgages for low-income and high-risk people; but Spitzer saw the scam going down, of what is called predatory  lending practices - deceptive teaser rates, undisclosed charges and fees - which hooked people into serving a larger scenario,  and tried to blow the whistle.  Oops.  Bad for his career...

The Bush admin used the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) to accomplish the mission, by preventing the states's own consumer protection laws to be activated, & actually stopping state-level investigations.  Spitzer, as AG of NY, tried to do something about it all.  As I say: Big mistake.

 Why would the Powers That Be do such a thing?  Ah,  well.  Therein hangs a story...

...but even someone on a liberal thread doesn't want to go into the New World Order thing.

Another big mistake. 

by kibitzer2 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 49 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 12:13:43 PM

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The correct view on the events ( and it does seem that  what you have shown points into the right direction) does not mean that cosmic powers like New World Order are to be involved. Moreover, the argument against the NWO comes from the diametrically contradictive  explanation of the goals of this mystical force whoever uses it: left- wingers say it wants to make all impoverished slaves; right- wingers say it wants to take away freedom and sovereignity; US nationalists claim it wants to take away the US Independence; Russian nationalists claim it is the driving force in the new crusade against Russia... Meanwhile the  most sober way would be concentrated in two powerful statements:

1.' My fellow -citizens, I would advise you always to  consider the poor logic, greed and negligence as  plausible causes of unfortunate events rather than conspiracies and plots.'

P. Cont, deputy of the French Revolutionary Convent, 1793.

2.'Idiot is a member of the all- powerful international organization whose influence on the affairs of Humanity progressively rises..'

Ambrose Bierce. The Devil's Dictionary.

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 12:34:45 PM

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You are absolutely right, but if there was something that we could actually do about it, it would be a whole lot better than watching the stocks go erratically up and down everyday. There is obviously a lot of information that the government has not provided us with, yet.

To be honest, I still am a bit suspicious, as there are several ex-politicians who have stated how little time this 451-page bill took to be enacted into law, compared to how long the bureaucratic process usually takes for an even shorter bill to be put into action.

Admittedly, it would be nice if the price of gasoline would stay low, the interest rates low and if the stocks would stay up (wishful thinking). However, we have to be prepared in case something else happens and stop the blame game, as it accomplishes nothing. It is wasted energy.

by Lisa Clark (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 32 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:28:48 PM

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«should» put the final nail in the coffin reserved for the McCain/Palin campaign. But will it ? I still fear that a large proportion of the US electorate will, in the privacy of the voting booth, find that voting for a «black man» for president is beyond them. And besides, even if they should vote for Senator Obama, who or what is going to be counting the vote ? In the event the official poll results differ largely from the exit poll results, as they did in both 2000 and 2004, will Obama - and more particularly,  the Democratic Party - have the courage to take the matter to the country, something which was not done on the occasion of the two previous coups d'ètat ? I'm not certain that it was, in fact, Stalin who said that it's not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes, but whoever did was no fool....

Henri

by mhenriday (0 articles, 17 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 157 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 1:17:12 PM

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"I still fear that a large proportion of the US electorate will, in the privacy of the voting booth, find that voting for a «black man» for president is beyond them."

As a conservative, I have never felt that way. As a person who has voted for a black incumbent on a couple of occasions, I find that to be not "beyond me" to vote for the person who I sincerely believe will do best for our country, regardless of skin color. That will never be a factor in my voting for someone.

When voting, I take all of the issues into consideration. If that is something that someone mistakes for racism, then they need to take another good, hard look at themselves.

I have and always will have friends of every race, creed and color -- some, who are voting for McCain / Palin, as well -- others who probably won't. Some issues mean more than others, but I will never compromise my faith, values, patriotism and beliefs, simply because someone tries to break them with their own.

It would be completely unconstitutional if we could not make our own decisions, have different views and beliefs, as well as the other privileges that our Constitution provides us with.

by Lisa Clark (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 32 comments) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:54:08 PM

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"It would be completely unconstitutional if we could not make our own decisions, have different views and beliefs, as well as the other privileges that our Constitution provides us with."

 Absolutely, Lisa.  But for how much longer?...

While the sellers and insurers of 'toxic mortgage instruments' quietly left their intricate packages behind to explode after they had left the scene - in a riff similar to the Enron refrain that demonstrated so painfully the need for governments to play a proper regulatory role in the real as opposed to the theoretical world of capitalism - there is another activity that has been going on which deserves at least equal attention to such suspicious details of life in our time.  And that is the subtle development of a national police force.  And listen up, both right and left:  it involves both your camps.

In the '90s - therefore under Clinton; but as originally organized under Bush Sr (they of the 2 peas in a criminal pod involved in the drug running through the Mena, Arkansas airport) - the states were inveigled into taking federal funding to convert local and state forces into a national police force.  It was called the MJTF - Multi Jurisdictional Task Force.  Its primary mission: house-to-house search and seizure, separation and categorisation of men, women and children, their transfer to detention facilities,  and the use of those facilities for interrogation purposes.  The rationale for this move was the war on drugs.  (Sweet, that.)

This idea is associated with the work of FEMA - Federal Emergency Management Agency.  Who was the brains behind its creation?  One Zbigniew Brzezinski; who worked for Jimmy Carter, but when Reagan came into power, he stayed over into the new administration to complete operations and deployment of FEMA inside the US.  

Who is he advising now?  

Barack Obama.

 Who has called for a national police force in our day and age?

Barack Obama. 

Who would inherit all the Executive Orders that have been put in place to suspend the Constitution and take over the country if a crisis occurred?

Either candidate.  Behind both of whom, and their parties, are the same shadowy characters who need to be brought to justice. 

How is that going to take place?

If conservatives like you, Lisa, and liberals like those who engage in Rob Kall's OEN, decide you do have some  common ground, after all, and go for it.

And the internet is where you can meet, and talk it up.  So don't leave this site,  Lisa.  You're needed in the great work ahead, for Americans to take back their country from those who would submerge it into their New World Order.

I'm not saying that Obama is involved in the inner workings of this cabal.  I'm saying that he can be used, just like the perps used financial folks to bring about a Crisis in the international financial scene, the better to set up their Opportunity.  Which may well come when/if the election is rigged for McCain, and the left takes to the streets; or if there is a false flag operation; or however the Powers That Be try to make their final move to take on total power.

Liberals and conservatives have different takes on the Constitution.  But at least they understand its importance.  For without it, it's the law of the jungle at work, and in play.  Which will need a Big Stick to control.  And it doesn't matter which side of the political aisle that stick is wielded from.  Behind the 'seen', it's the same den of thieves.

May The People win the day.  Or it will be a long, dark night.  Which we have been well warned about.   

by kibitzer2 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 49 comments) on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 at 5:31:57 PM

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Just remember - don't spit into the wind!

 Or ...

Just be careful what you do, it will all come back on you (With apologies to The Band at Big Pink).

-a.

by AlexH (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 14 comments) on Sunday, Oct 19, 2008 at 4:48:43 PM

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