Don't bother looking for this story on the front pages of the NY Times, Washington Post, Guardian or Wall Street Journal. Gestapo police state tactics apparently don't interest them.
For months, people most would describe as tinfoil hat wearers have been predicting the cancellation of the November 4th election. And gun ownership supporters have been fighting for their right to bear arms to protect themselves from a police state. Are they crazy?
There's something coming down in Minneapolis-St. Paul that looks very menacing-- real "Can't Happen Here" fascist, gestapo tactics that look they are coordinated from on high-- with FBI and Homeland Security participation.
Preventive strike forces by police have invaded homes of people planning protests, or even planning to protect protesters by video-taping police. The victims of these raids have been forced to lie face down on the floor, have been handcuffed, and then their computers, records and some money has been taken from them. This frightening abuse of constitutional rights has been done using vague claims that the police are preventing riots. Here's what Glen Greenwald reports:
Protesters here in Minneapolis have been targeted by a series of highly intimidating, sweeping police raids across the city, involving teams of 25-30 officers in riot gear, with semi-automatic weapons drawn, entering homes of those suspected of planning protests, handcuffing and forcing them to lay on the floor, while law enforcement officers searched the homes, seizing computers, journals, and political pamphlets. Last night, members of the St. Paul police department and the Ramsey County sheriff's department handcuffed, photographed and detained dozens of people meeting at a public venue to plan a demonstration, charging them with no crime other than "fire code violations," and early this morning, the Sheriff's department sent teams of officers into at least four Minneapolis area homes where suspected protesters were staying.
Jane Hamsher and I were at two of those homes this morning -- one which had just been raided and one which was in the process of being raided. Each of the raided houses is known by neighbors as a "hippie house," where 5-10 college-aged individuals live in a communal setting, and everyone we spoke with said that there had never been any problems of any kind in those houses, that they were filled with "peaceful kids" who are politically active but entirely unthreatening and friendly.
In the house that had just been raided, those inside described how a team of roughly 25 officers had barged into their homes with masks and black swat gear, holding large semi-automatic rifles, and ordered them to lie on the floor, where they were handcuffed and ordered not to move. The officers refused to state why they were there and, until the very end, refused to show whether they had a search warrant. They were forced to remain on the floor for 45 minutes while the officers took away the laptops, computers, individual journals, and political materials kept in the house. One of the individuals renting the house, an 18-year-old woman, was extremely shaken as she and others described how the officers were deliberately making intimidating statements such as "Do you have Terminator ready?" as they lay on the floor in handcuffs. The 10 or so individuals in the house all said that though they found the experience very jarring, they still intended to protest against the GOP Convention, and several said that being subjected to raids of that sort made them more emboldened than ever to do so.
Several of those who were arrested are being represented by Bruce Nestor, the President of the Minnesota chapter of the National Lawyers' Guild. Nestor said that last night's raid involved a meeting of a group calling itself the "RNC Welcoming Committee", and that this morning's raids appeared to target members of "Food Not Bombs," which he described as an anti-war, anti-authoritarian protest group. There was not a single act of violence or illegality that has taken place, Nestor said. Instead, the raids were purely anticipatory in nature, and clearly designed to frighten people contemplating taking part in any unauthorized protests.
Nestor indicated that only 2 or 3 of the 50 individuals who were handcuffed this morning at the 2 houses were actually arrested and charged with a crime, and the crime they were charged with is "conspiracy to commit riot."
Greenwald updates his report, describing what a Democracy Now reported:
...she was present at a meeting of a group called "I-Witness" -- which videotaped police behavior at the 2004 GOP Convention in New York and helped get charges dismissed against hundreds of protesters who were arrested. The police surrounded the St. Paul house where they were meeting even though they had no warrant, told them that anyone who exited the house would be arrested, and then -- even though they finally, after several hours, obtained a warrant only for the house next door -- basically broke into the house, pointed weapons at everyone inside, handcuffed them, searched the house, and then left.
Here is the press report released by a victim of the police gestapo tactics:
This is Eileen Clancy, one of the founders of I-Witness Video, a NYC-based video collective that's in St. Paul to document the policing of the protests around this week's Republican National Convention.
The house where I-Witness Video is staying in St. Paul has been surrounded by police. We have locked all the doors. We have been told that if we leave we will be detained. One of our people who was caught outside is being detained in handcuffs in front of the house. The police say that they are waiting to get a search warrant. More than a dozen police are wielding firearms, including one St. Paul officer with a long gun, which someone told me is an M-16.
We are suffering a preemptive video arrest. For those that don't know, I-Witness Video was remarkably successful in exposing police misconduct and outright perjury by police during the 2004 RNC. Out of 1800 arrests, at least 400 were overturned based solely on video evidence which contradicted sworn statements which were fabricated by police officers. It seems that the house arrest we are now under and the possible threat of the seizure of our computers and video cameras is a result of the 2004 success.
We are asking the public to contact the office of St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman at 651-266-8510 to stop this house arrest, this gross intimidation by police officers, and the detention of media activists and reporters.
Don't look for the authoritarian tyrants running USA to denounce the St. Paul police department and their sheriff's allies for crashing into the homes of law-abiding citizens, handcuffing and intimidating them, taking their papers and computers, and engaging in other violations of the U.S. Constitution. The society of freedom and free speech that George Washington and his countrymen fought for no longer exists and this election is the last, slim chance the American people have to do something about it. Some St. Paul residents got a tiny taste of the tactics the Bush-Cheney communazis have been using in the Middle East and if the people of the Twin Cities don't demand the firing of the chief of police, sheriff, and all those who participated in these infamous raids they don't deserve to be called Americans. Let them replace the star on the flag that stands for Minnesota with a swastika. Every day impeachment is delayed is a day closer to full-blown Soviet- and Nazi-style dictatorship. Is there any better proof of this than what the St. Paul police did yesterday?
Sherwood Ross
by
Sherwood Ross (222 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 155 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 8:00:28 AM
Hell, I was threatened with prosecution by a "special agent from Homeland Security" simply because I filed a complaint with Health and Human Services' Office of Inspector General, against several employees of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.
The "special agent", as he identified himself via a phone call, turned out to be a Federal Protective Services cop. FPS is under DHS. It appears that somebody at CMS (Region V - Chicago) asked him to threaten me because I had become a pain in the ass. The really scary thing is is that not many people have thought that the call was a big deal. That made me more angry than the call. (One of the people who did not think that it was a big deal, is Dr. Dora Hughes, Senator Barack Obama's Health Policy Advisor. I have spoken with her in depth about it as well as the wrongdoing that I had encountered via HHS/CMS.)
I can imagine what they are going to do with protestors at McCain's Beauty Contest. All I was trying to do was obtain the Medicare managed care rights that had been denied to my folks, and I was going through the proper channels.
I am sure there are going to be plenty of self described liberals who will say that the protestors must be doing something wrong. I can testify that it can happen here and it has.
My mother has since died, so they won't have to worry about me trying to obtain her rights anymore.
I tried to post my experience as a diary entry, but I ran into trouble with the cut and paste. I intend on posting it, but for now here is a link:
It was not a crank call. He had left a message a week earlier, and I had returned the call, but he had been out sick. He finally got a hold of me a little over a week after he first had called.
I also verified it with DHS in Washington. The individual with whom I spoke in Washington, was a little skeptical when I told him about the content of the call, but he checked it out, and comfirmed that it was legitimate. He refused to comment about it. My FOIA request for further information was acknowledged but never fulfilled.
by
John Olsen (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 60 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 at 9:43:01 PM
The KEY to ABSOLUTE DICTATORIAL RULE and a FULL FLEDGED POLICE STATE is staging a FALSE FLAG attack and then suspending constitutional rights in the name of tyranny CLICK HERE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=948EPlw-vCs
by
Gene Cappa (43 articles, 28 quicklinks, 113 diaries, 347 comments [33 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 10:02:20 AM
...we'll see. There were knock-downs and bullying at the DNC... but we were too busy chirping about who "Obama" would pick for "VP." Now it's peeping about the Alaskan stripper.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
No... "Obama" did not mention "9-11," why, golly... he did not even mention TORTURE. The goons in the vests and masks with the fun poppers are our NEIGHBORS... and WE PAID FOR all those swell "toys." Each and every one of us is AFRAID to be even remotely critical of any pork-stuffed flak-jacket that totes a popgun. They are all "brave heroes" who "serve." That's why the DNCers wore their lips out kissing military bums.
Just wait 'til next week. You'll see a "convention" that makes the 1937 Nurenberg Ralley look like Girl Scout Camp. The bullet-heads will all drench their undies in patriotic panty-dew... and we will be afraid to laugh at their sick bondage fantasy... (for fear of "offending" the "heroes") we'll even join in. Why not? We have to "win" the "election."
So we will "salute our brave heroes" who hide behind masks, flak-vests and assault rifles to confront kids with computers. We are all just "doing our job." Wait for it...
We can solve it all by "voting" for "Ron Paul."
by
waldopaper (15 articles, 3 quicklinks, 34 diaries, 609 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 10:08:27 AM
Waldopaper, Sir, you need to write your Congressperson! Do it now! Won't hurt if you go to your nearest Church and pray a little too. Pray for FREEDOM. Pray for DEMOCRACY. Pray for our fearless leader and pray for them brave candidates. They are there to save us and to lead us from tyranny! Why can't you get it, man?
Some people are just beyond being helped. Such a shame.
God bless AmuhriKKKa !!
(spits on the shoes of the guy standing to the left of him)
That's what I say!
Friggin Hippies.
by
Tony Forest (7 articles, 18 quicklinks, 166 diaries, 1429 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 12:16:42 PM
...will I write me Congressdork and Senateperps... I'm gonna sign an INTERNET PETITION... AND I'm gonna VOTE for RON PAUL... AND... uh... uh... post an ANGRY BLOG. Because as you know, everytime you post an angry blog-- it causes some fat kapo's 'roids to puff up...
THEN they gotta put more air in their rubber donut so they dingles can swing properly... and then BAM- rubber donut pops...
...and the fascist state collapses. Hey- I used to be a RADICAL.
by
waldopaper (15 articles, 3 quicklinks, 34 diaries, 609 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 1:13:44 PM
Well there were police state tactics used at the democratic convention and the democratic leaders didn't say a word. Now here we are at the republican convention and guess what? Same thing ! Why would anyone be surprised ?
The democrats let it happen on their turf and the republicans are following suit. Where is Obama, the great orator, speaking out against the destruction of our civil liberties and speaking out for our right to protest? Oh yea, that's right, he voted for fisa and the renewal of the patriot act.. He's not gonna save us. He's a HUGe part of the problem and apparently is looking forward to having the same power when he takes control of this fascist regime.
Why on earth do you expect anything better from the ruling facist party and their ilk?
Those who are screaming, and have always been screaming, about the 2nd amendment have been right all along. I never thought I'd say that. But many of we liberals are now feeling the need to protect ourselves. Not from some faceless neighborhood burglar but from the abuses of our own government.
by
jersey girl (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1201 comments [734 recommended, 12 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 10:15:11 AM
These raids show exactly why you can't empower the government, something progressives have done. Now your Frankenstein comes back to get you & you can't understand what's happening. There is no such things as a powerful, taxing, energetic government & human rights. They are mutually exclusive.
"Confidence is everywhere the parent of despotism. Free government is founded in jealousy, and not in confidence."
--Thomas Jefferson
"I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive. It places the governors indeed more at their ease, at the expense of the people."
--Thomas Jefferson
by
Darren Wolfe (15 articles, 400 quicklinks, 141 diaries, 1031 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 10:32:32 AM
Leave it to Darren to come up with some convoluted logic to blame a corporate Fascist police state, the final fruit of fully metastesized capitalism, better known as monopoly capitalism, on progressives.
by
Mac McKinney (53 articles, 113 quicklinks, 240 diaries, 1413 comments [31 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 11:28:05 AM
All these gestapo raid techniques have been embedded during the war in Iraq. The only thing missing is black hoods and beatings. Give that a few more years if there isn't a hue and cry now.
by
Mac McKinney (53 articles, 113 quicklinks, 240 diaries, 1413 comments [31 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 11:31:31 AM
Good to see you all here. Wonderful quote, Mr. Wolfe-- I haven't seen that one before, thank you. (and I read the five-volume bio of Jefferson written by Dumas, I believe.)
Anyhow, we are discussing the police state. Personally, I think if it really comes, it will come in like the fog of Sandburg, on little cat feet so no one will notice.
After 9/11, the GOP had the Patriot Act, a thick stack of documents, ready to go. They seem to believe they can control us somehow. Or at least they fear being out of the control they think they have by virtue of our collective forbearance. They may be in for a big surprise when the left uses their tyrannical devices against them.
Leftist governments have always been more successfully oppressive than fascists. The KGB was a much more effective organization than the SS. But neither one is still around. Government by paranoia always collapses. Who can one trust? Who is currying favor, who is telling the truth? After awhile, the truth becomes illegal, not like here, where the truth is merely inconvenient and ignored by mainstream media.
We can still indict Bush for mass murder, which would get us a lengthy prison sentence in China or Burma, where the truth is already illegal. But they are fighting a losing battle. Half a billion Chinese guys are going to exchange the truth in unofficial channels-- they have to. Reality has a way of dope-slapping those who ignore it. And we know there are meth-heads with scoped high powered rifles, unlike those who champion "food, not bombs". So these particular police-state tactics, made legal by the Patriot Act, are really rather amateurish. They strike no fear in our hearts. They do not confront real threats, but embarrassing ones. So the discussion becomes rather moot.
What would we do if they started rounding up masses of liberals? Gays? Jews? Catholics and those of Roma persuasion? I believe we would put a stop to it toute suite. But they aren't scaring me yet. Frankly, I don't think Americans are actually scared of anything. Problem solving? Yes, we can.
by
martinweiss (41 articles, 6 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 503 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 11:55:16 AM
I think that all these incidents need to be vigorously challenged in Court.... And that a Legal Defense Fund be established for the people charged and victimized that we who are concerned can contribute to. This can also eventually bring out who ordered these criminal and Anti-American tactics.
It all needs to be publicized; and lengthly trials will be a continuous reminder.
by
Steve Windisch (jibbguy) (17 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 360 comments [54 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 12:08:04 PM
That is the Sheilah Jones refrain. "They did it, too!"
"All those Arabs, they torture people, too! So nobody can blame us for a little torture."
"People were illegally harrassed by cops at the Democratic convention, too! So it's OK if they beat the hell out of people at the Republican convention."
"They did it, too!"
Sounds like a 6-year old kid's protest, to me.
by
JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 12:44:53 PM
Comment from Ratings: Thanks for posting this stunning info. I sent out a special urgent email to all those on my list who are well positioned to get the word out, both nationally and internationally.
by
Meryl Ann Butler (70 articles, 82 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 721 comments [29 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 1:09:03 PM
Police Chief Appeared on C-Span Washington Journal
The police chief of St. Paul, or was it Minneapolis, appeared on C-Span at 5:00 a.m. my time (PST)and claimed that they only arrested these people because they had definitive foreknowledge that these people planned to do some kind of violence. He claimed they had bricks and 'other things' and were "ready to commit acts of violence with them."
Now don't get me wrong, I don't buy his story. The posting on here yesterday said these were harmless kids living at 'hippie pads' and were not violent at all. So this obviously is a cover story by the police chief to try to whitewash his actions. He claimed that anyone who was willing to do 'legitimate, non-violent protest' was able to come there and exercise their right to free speech. He said they would only pre-emptively arrest people that they had "certain knowledge" that they were about to "commit some kind of violence to disrupt the convention."
I don't buy this but I thought I would report it, that this is the spin they are giving the story, at least the police chief was giving, on the arrests.
by
JOHN LORENZ (23 articles, 117 quicklinks, 118 diaries, 313 comments [25 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 2:05:09 PM
But we have not inventoried them so we do not yet know yet if something is missing.
Don't be worried about what may have been taken. Make very sure nothing was planted in anticipation of a return raid. Police have been known to do this!!
by
Paul Kruger (39 articles, 1 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 304 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 2:15:03 PM
NAZRAN, Russia (Reuters) - An opposition Internet news site owner in Russia's troubled Ingushetia region was fatally shot on Sunday soon after being detained by police, and his colleagues called for a rally to protest his death.
Magomed Yevloyev is one of the most high-profile journalists to be killed in Russia since investigative reporter Anna Politkovskaya was shot dead near her Moscow apartment in 2006, provoking condemnation of Russia's record on media freedom.
Yevloyev, owner of the www.Ingushetiya.ru website, was a vocal critic of the region's Kremlin-backed administration, accused by opponents of crushing dissent and free speech.
A lawyer for the website -- which survived repeated official attempts to close it down -- said police met Yevloyev at the steps of the aircraft after he flew in to Ingushetia's airport, put him in a Volga saloon car and drove him away.
"As they drove he was shot in the temple... They threw him out of the car near the hospital," lawyer Kaloi Akhilgov told Reuters by telephone.
"He was discovered there and they quickly put him on the operating table, which is where he died."
Akhilgov said Yevloyev, who was in his thirties, flew from Moscow to Nazran on the same flight as the Kremlin-backed local leader Murat Zyazikov. A spokesman for Zyazikov could not be reached for comment.
A posting on Yevloyev's website called on "all those who are not indifferent" to his killing to gather for a demonstration in Nazran, Ingushetia's biggest town where Zyazikov's opponents have clashed with riot police in recent years.
"A preliminary investigation is being carried out into the incident as a result of which M.Yevloyev was killed," said Vladimir Markin, a spokesman for the investigations unit of the Prosecutor General's Office in Moscow.
Markin said police had tried to bring Yevloyev in for questioning but that an incident occurred in which he received a gunshot wound that led to his death.
Interfax news agency cited an unnamed law enforcement source as saying Yevloyev was shot by accident and said prosecutors had opened a criminal case for causing the death by carelessness.
Akhilgov said he doubted the shooting was an accident. "It was in no way a mistake," he told Reuters.
Media freedom groups say Russia is one of the world's most dangerous countries for journalists.
Ingushetia is a poor, mainly Muslim, region in Russia's North Caucasus region and borders Chechnya, scene of a separatist rebellion that has now been largely quelled.
Ingushetia's leader, Zyazikov, has been struggling to contain a low-level insurgency by Islamist militants. Opponents accuse Zyazikov of persecuting opposition activists.
Zyazikov, a former security service officer in the local KGB, has criticized the reporting by Ingushetiya.ru and brought a court case earlier this year trying to close down the site.
by
martinweiss (41 articles, 6 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 503 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 2:46:46 PM
Because the frog water is 200 degrees instead of the full 212, it appears Martin chooses to consider it merely a balmy day at the beach.
The question is, at which point does a 'Police State' become obviously a police state. And if you look at the literature, there are sufficient examples of executions ... er, ah, I mean 'suicides' abundantly available.
by
richard (0 articles, 5 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 1359 comments [400 recommended, 8 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 3:12:31 PM
My goodness. You'd think that the streets were a sea of blue and black, automatic weapons and batons. A scene from "I-Robot". Isn't the reality that the whole thing involved a select few locations?
Do people here have any desire whatsoever for their police departments or other government officials to act preemptively at all? Should law-enforcement be 100% wholly reactive?
Might it just be that these "hippies" were indeed planning to threaten public safety during the convention? "They were always just a nice bunch of kids, wouldn't harm a flea". Well, how many times have we heard that from friends and neighbors and even relatives of people who turned out to be child-molesters, serial killers, cannibals and other misc. people-gone-postal?
Instead of conjuring up all these wild assumptions regarding police-states and campaigns of intimidation ordered from on-high, could we perhaps stop for a moment and consider the more likely explanation? The police were merely acting on credible information that someone was actively planning to engage in activity that had a high likelihood of hurting or perhaps even (unintentionally, I'm sure) killing people, and they were just *gasp* doing their jobs -- serving and protecting.
We heard endless accusations directed at the Bush administration of not doing enough to stop 9/11 before it happened. They were supposed to anticipate which planes were going to be hijacked, and which buildings were going to be hit, or at the very least track down and arrest the terrorists before they could act, presumably even if they weren't 100% sure of their intentions. But according to this rather selective mindset, we're supposed to completely ignore information pointing to a likely crime, just trust that it won't happen, and only act afterward if it does.
And the hypocrisy is always entertaining. It was just fine for the left when Castro reached out via the proxy of Janet Reno's long arm of the law bearing an assault rifle to retrieve his precious future hero of the state Elian Gonzalez. And those naughty bible-distorting, weapons collecting Davidians deserved what they got for defying government orders.
Those on the left would argue that they were acting properly and professionally in their operation to secure Elian and safeguard he and the public from harm. They would argue that indeed the Davidians were given every chance to surrender, and that citizens simply can't be allowed to build up weapons arsenals and hold children in a potentially dangerous situation.
And I would largely agree. I don't think we should have been so darn eager to return the boy to a dictator thug against the wishes of his dead mother, but I sympathize with the agents during the "raid". And I certainly don't cry any tears for the Davidians, except of course for the unknowing children caught up in it.
Let's apply the same thinking to the situation in Minnesota. Police really are largely concerned with YOUR safety, regardless of your politics, and with enforcing laws that enable us to live in a predominantly peaceful and safe country.
The police in Denver would have done the very same thing, had they had information that a radical group of University GOP club presidents was planning a dangerous leaflet drop, potentially resulting in slip hazards and causing people to become distracted and run into one-another.
by
Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 3:50:56 PM
I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I certainly didn't agree with the paramilitary raids to get Elian, or to mess with the Davidians. Or to mess with a man who lived out in the woods with his family that were killed for nothing other than a cooked-up weapons charge. Or any of the rest of it.
And NONE of them were putting me or anyone at risk of harm, anymore than these people who were planning to protest. That's why we don't have "preventive" laws. That's why all this post-9/11 bullcrap of thought crimes and preventive war and ridiculousness is so antithetical to everything that America was founded on.
You keep your thought police and preventive law enforcement. It has no place here.
by
JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 4:19:02 PM
Nobody said anything about "though crimes". But surely you don't think that law-enforcement doesn't include a certain amount of pro-action, that is, when they get information about a crime likely to occur.
I don't think anybody really knows that this isn't exactly the case. Why does everyone jump to all these extreme conclusions without knowing the particulars of the situation?
by
Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 10:55:42 PM
Alan, what crime has been committed by citizens? NONE.
The only crime ACTUALLY committed?
ARRESTS for Conspiracy TO COMMIT.
There is no crime if the crime has not been committed. There is no committed if there is no action.
There is no hope, rhyme or reason to dispute this to you. It will only waste my time, and annoy me.
THOUGHT CRIME is the crime of thinking to commit.
You claim the police have "credible information?" There is no evidence of credible information. There can be no evidence of crime committed if the crime has not been committed.
I suppose you are with the INNER PARTY?
Ministry of Love, Safety, Plenty or Security?
Don't worry, they will take you, too. Room 101.
by
Drew Terry (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 28 diaries, 125 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 11:26:42 PM
But surely you don't think that law-enforcement doesn't include a certain amount of pro-action, that is, when they get information about a crime likely to occur.
What, they got "information" that somebody was planning to throw a brick?
If you get information like this, you drive over to the house, knock politely on the door, and politely ask about it. You say, "We just want to make sure that the law is followed and nobody's gonna get hurt. You guys can protest and carry signs, have your say - hey, it's the American way. Just make sure you're not throwing stuff or doing something that can harm other people."
This is totally ridiculous. What if I called down to the sheriff's office and told them that there was a mean ol' terrorist named Alan who was planning on throwing a brick at one of their patrol cars?
What would you do if they stormed into your house in full SWAT gear, M-4s and Glock 9s drawn, yelling at you and your wife and small children to get down on your faces NOW! Then they cuffed you, searched your house, took your computers and private journals, financial records, and anything else they thought might be interesting, and said, "Call in a few days to see about getting your stuff back."
That's what happened, Alan. Is that the country you want to live in? Is that the country you want your children to live in?
These raids were made to intimidate people from protesting. They were made to put fear into the hearts of those who, for whatever reasons, simply wanted to have their say. They didn't want them to have their say, so they "nipped it - nipped it in the bud," as Barney Fife would say.
Imagine how dehumanizing and humiliating that would be to you and your family, Alan. It's just as dehumanizing, demoralizing and humiliating to those kids. And it was meant to be. It was the whole purpose.
by
JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 at 1:25:31 AM
The police were merely acting on credible information that someone was actively planning to engage in activity that had a high likelihood of hurting or perhaps even (unintentionally, I'm sure) killing people, and they were just *gasp* doing their jobs -- serving and protecting.
Alan, you assert that since nothing was done to stop 9/11, everything should be done now to stop anything which is alleged will but not yet actually happened?
I assume you are being paid to promote and defend this action.
If people actually agree with Alan, there is no reason to waste time and energy to object here. A runaway train will not be stopped until it stops.
The fat lady is singing, "America was beautiful, America was brave."
It was fun while it lasted. At 232 years the longest running of the still existing empires. Not long at all compared to Rome.
Well, if there is a silver lining it will be bittersweet to be vindicated. My guess is, if all the people who think I have lost my mind over the last two years suddenly woke up behind bars with me, they would still deny what happened, call it preemptionism instead of fascism. Oh well, f*ck it. No matter what happens will not surprise me. If that is the saving grace of awareness then I am already well satisfied.
by
Drew Terry (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 28 diaries, 125 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 11:12:03 PM
"Police really are largely concerned with YOUR safety, regardless of your politics, and with enforcing laws that enable us to live in a predominantly peaceful and safe country."
What kind of freakin TOOL-TALK is THAT? "Police are largely concerned with" getting PAID. Just like "our brave troops."
by
waldopaper (15 articles, 3 quicklinks, 34 diaries, 609 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 4:28:38 PM
but this is VERY VERY BAD NEWS. The militarized police state is ramping up to martial law. These are the death rattles of our republic. She is dying right before our eyes. To any thinking of leaving the US, when I lived on the border I witnessed Customs and Immigration agents searching cars LEAVING the US. They are looking for cash,illegal aliens (who go to jail)guns and wanted individuals. If the background check shows someone to be a dissenter in the future they could be arrested. I have thought for some time now the border fence is not to keep Mexicans out but to keep us in.
by
john riggs (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 463 comments [24 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 5:13:18 PM
That is what I SAW the Denver cops wearing and holding(knuckles sewn into gloves). Now who in the hell needs to beat someone that bad when they have tear gas and 100 to ONE ratio in number? I saw that cocky bast*rd cop take his billy club and bash that little code pink gal in the face and knock her down (Denver). What kind of crap is that? Code pink is verbal but NEVER ever been violent for the record.
Let me give you some REAL factual statistics and if I step on a toe or two, so be it. Cops are in the TOP FIVE of abusers to their wives and children. Abusers use their "brawn" to over power women and make themselves feeeeel high and mighty. That episode with the Code pink gal was nothing more than bullying and abuse by the cop that "protects and serves" us. Baloney. If I am ever robbed or attacked, the LAST ppl I will call is the GD cops. They scare the pants off me and I have witnessed their frankenstein behavior too many times. I have been a victim of both their physical abuse and their CRIMINAL behavior.
We saw both parties' TRUE colors. Now we are clear as to WHY they desire to determine anyone they want as a "enemy combatant".
In all the LAW I have studied and classes in college, there was never a chapter on "pre-emptive arrest" or even a paragraph on it. However, there is plenty of information on pre-emptive arrest during Napoleon and Hitler's regimes.
300 Million Americans and 250 million asleep. Stay in denial. In awhile, it will be too late. Then those of you that don't SEE the police state, will someday look up and say, huh, what happened. JFC, I just can hardly stand to watch this country metamorphasis into this fascist/commie state.
May I suggest the ACLU as another group to contribute to. They are over burdened with constitutional right offense cases and could surely use more Lawyers.
I can't thank Rob K enough for this wonderful educating site. It's all we have left for news and free speech.
by
shirley reese (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 592 comments [98 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 5:31:24 PM
here in Illinois only have Drew Peterson and his missing wife and his dead third wife to refer too to prove your point. The entire Bolingbrook Police Department should be indicted for blowing off evidence that showed that he was nuts.
by
John Olsen (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 60 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 at 9:59:58 PM
when shi* like this happens--you get more people-when more people does not help ya get mean---------we havent even begun to get mean yet----people must fight for rights not just talk about it ---i called and got a woman who said she was taking down everything for the mayor------said i dissaprove of their methods and said so------its a fact that lots of shi* is hitting the fan---we must protest for what we believe in-or we are not alive -are we????????
by
TRADESMAN (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 335 comments [40 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 6:15:45 PM
Evidently...discernment, freedom and constitutional rights, black & white, torture, rendition, pre-emptive offensive actions versus defensive reactions, quality & inequality, taxes & inflation or robbery & greed, morality or the end justifies the means, thesis/anti-thesis, and on and on... its all grey?
There are no clear lines to make a distinction? Semantics convolutes it all, and renders the Rule of Law, the Bill of Rights, Truth or Error, Good or Evil...they're all impotent in the ugly face of Rationalization? This is the BS nouveau pitch and connotation sold by today's Snake Oil Salesmen. So now, NoOne can ever point to something significant or trivial and CALL IT WHAT IT IS?!!!
This "sickness" has spread and infected many. It is Propaganda to confuse and divide 300 MILLION PEOPLE on exceedingly important issues. When folks will actually "GET TOGETHER", recognize and be cognizant of "things" for what they are, instead of getting all "wobbly" about straight-up stuff their Daddies and Grand-Pappies would have IMMEDIATELY called BS on, and would have recognized what the Hell is going on Right Now-- Then, and Only Then, will the Interlopers and Usurpers be caught and cornered by their words and deeds (sorry for long sentance). C'mon. This ain't hard to figure out. We Don't need some Loser to 'splain things to us?! To say, "you didn't just see what you just saw...you didn't experience what you just went through".
Let the No Spin Zone be in American's heads -- call the game as you see it, and freakin do something about it! Our truly Patriotic ancestors would Kick Our Asses for operating in the Waffling Zone we've been inhabiting.
by
boomerang (0 articles, 7 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 556 comments [215 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 7:16:49 PM
Why would the RNC want this kind of stuff going on. Unless of course they also want Obama to win. Bush has certainly done his part to make McCain look bad, negotiating time tables for an Iraq withdrawel, negotiating with Iran, etc. And 29 Republican congressmen are stepping down after this year. After all, we are a 1 party system with 2 colors to choose from (red and blue), and it's the blue teams turn to give people hope and change. And when they don't deliver after 8 years, it's the red teams turn to not deliver.
The fact that nothing like it happened at the DNC convention, or at least it was not reported, and the fact that there has been little evidence of any protests in this country outside of the angst over China over Tibet makes you wonder how real this is.
Fear is a useful tool, and in this case the purpose may be to scare some people into voting for Obama, or to discourage any real protests.
by
pft (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 601 comments [7 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 7:23:02 PM
I apologize if this has already been posted elsewhere -- just passing along an alert:
Hey friends, we need your help! Our Earth Activist Training Sustainable Skills Bus has been seized without cause by the police. Below is an account from the Wilsons, who have been travelling in the bus for the last seven months doing trainings in permaculture and sustainability, including ways you can help. My own accounts from the action can be found on www.starhawk.org and I’ll be posting daily as long as I can—or sign on to my own list by emailing starhawk-subscribe@lists.riseup.net. If you’re on that list, my own account follows. Please support these folks who have been doing such good work for us all. Thanks!
POLICE SEIZE PERMIBUS
Please Post Far and Wide including any Media Contacts You May Have
At approximately 6:25 pm on August 30, 2008 Minneapolis Police, Minnesota State Troopers, Ramsey County Sheriffs, Saint Paul Police, and University of Minnesota Police pulled over the Earth Activist Training Permaculture Demonstration Bus (Permibus) by exit 237 on Interstate 94.
Initially the police told the people on the bus to exit. When the people on the bus asked if they were being detained they were told that they were but police were unable to provide justification. When asked why they pulled the bus over they refused to answer.
After repeated requests to explain why the bus had been stopped Officer Honican of the Minneapolis Police explained that this was just a routine traffic stop though he did not explain the reason for the traffic stop. The police then told Stan Wilson, the driver and registered owner of the Permibus, that they were going to impound the bus in case they wanted to execute a search warrant later. After more than an hour of being questioned by Stan and Delyla Wilson as to the legalities of their detainment and the impoundment of the Permibus, the police then informed Stan that the bus, which is legally registered as a passenger vehicle in the state of Montana, was being impounded for a commercial vehicle inspection. Shortly afterward Sergeant Paul Davis, a commercial vehicle inspector arrived on scene.
Despite the police insistence that the reason for impoundment was for a commercial vehicle inspection the Permibus crew were not allowed to remove anything from the bus including computers, toiletries, and 17-year-old Megan Wilson's shoes. The police finally allowed the animals to be removed from the Permibus before it was towed, leaving the Permibus family standing beside their chickens and dogs, homeless on the highway.
The Permibus was relocating from the Bedlam Theatre in Minneapolis, where they had spent the day teaching Urban Permaculture, to a friend's house in Saint Paul for a well deserved break. The Permibus has been in the Minneapolis area since August 2nd when the crew appeared at the Midtown Farmers Market for a morning of Permaculture education including Permaculture 101, chicken care, seed ball making for kids, and the Permi-puppet show.
During the past month the Permibus has parked at several local businesses and, as a neighborly gesture of respect for local police, Mr. Wilson contacted the appropriate precincts just to let them know the Permibus was in the area and had permission from the business owners to be parked on their lot. Through this, as well as other casual discussions with Minneapolis and Saint Paul police officers, the Permibus crew found the local police to be interested and respectful.
However on August 30th all that changed when, for no apparent valid reason the police pulled over and seized the Permibus. After the incident Stan Wilson said, "If the combined law enforcement of Minneapolis, Saint Paul, Ramsey County, and the State of Minnesota can pull over and impound a vehicle and home used to teach organic gardening and sustainability, one has to wonder what it is our government really fears. After all, we seek to teach people that the real meaning of homeland security is local food, fuel and energy production. For that we have had our lives stolen by government men with guns."
As of now, after repeated requests to be present at any vehicle inspection, with an list of what they are inspecting for, as well as requests to be served any warrants for searches of the vehicles prior to a search and to be present during the search the Permi-family has been unable to ascertain the current status of the Permibus.
On site Mr. Wilson was told that Officer Palmerranky was the inspector in charge of the case and would determine if the Permi-family's rights protecting them from unreasonable search and seizure would be respected. Neither Officer Palmerranky nor his supervisor has yet to return Mr. Wilson's calls.
The loss of her home and possessions is particularly difficult on seventeen-year-old Megan Wilson. Megan, a shining example of what this country asks of today's youth, has dedicated herself to making positive changes in the world. She was the youth keynote speaker at the Local to Global conference in Phoenix AZ, has taught conflict resolution at youth shelters and is the outreach coordinator for the Skills for a New Millennium Tour, the family traveling educational project. Megan believes that, "While I understand that the world we live in is not as it should be I strive to live and teach in a way that shows the world how life could be. What I don't understand is why I can't get dressed for an evening out with friends in my own home without armed men stealing my life out from under me." The Permi-family, along with their dogs and Permaculture super-hero chickens are currently being housed by folks in the Twin Cities.
The Skills for a New Millennium Tour is a family education project that travels around the United States teaching homesteading, citizenship, and life skills at farmers markets, community gardens, churches, intentional communities, schools, and in people's living rooms. The Skills Tour is a donation supported project dedicated to providing tools for sustainable living, including Permaculture, to anyone who is interested, regardless of income. "We believe that any solution that is not accessible to the poor and urban areas is not a real solution for the future," states Delyla Wilson.
Permaculture is a design system with ethics and principles that can be applied to food production, home design, and community building in order to increase sustainability in food production, energy production, and social systems. The Permibus is a rolling demonstration of small scale sustainable living with three people, three dogs, three chickens, and a box of worms as permanent residence. The chickens and worms are part of a closed-loop food productions composting system that supports the Permibus's traveling garden.
For more information on the seizure of the Permibus, the Skills for the New Millennium Tour, or Permaculture, the Wilson's can be reached at 406-721-8427 or through email at skillstour@gmail.com. You can also see pictures and read stories about the last six months of their educational adventures at permibus.livejournal.com.
To our supporters: First we ask that as many people as possible contact precinct one in Minneapolis, MN at 612-673-5701 and Mayor Rybak at Phone: (612) 673-2100 or call 311 or call (612) 673-3000 outside Minneapolis. Also call the Ramsey County Sheriff Sheriff - Bob Fletcher 651-266-9300 and demand the immediate release of the Permibus.
We are also in desperate need of donations. Though we do not yet know the full cost of getting the permibus returned we know that it will include tow fee, impound fees, and legal fees. To donate contact us directly for a local address or... Donate On-line: Go to: earthactivisttraining.org/donate Click on: Donate Now! Under "Gift Information" write: Permibus Under "Please send acknowledgment of this gift to" write: skillstour@gmail.com
Donate by Mail:
Make check payable to: A.C.T. On the "For" line write: Permibus Send check to: A.C.T. 1405 Hillmount St. Austin, TX 78704
by
Mark E. Smith (21 articles, 30 quicklinks, 100 diaries, 1325 comments) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 8:12:35 PM
we really don't have to worry about a thing. These guys are amateurs. They aren't as good as the KGB. What alot of crap. These amateurs trained the death squads in latin America. They trained the torturers all over the world. This is a trial baloon. The local yokles get the go ahead. This is the new rules of the game. Every local fascist has high tech weapons. Obama your mama ain't against these tactics. He voted for them. It is up to us, Stop waiting for divine intervention from Nancy Pelosi's party. They don't like old fashioned Americans who believe in the silly constitution. They have all willingly sold us out. They are the people they warned us against. they my friends are the terrorists. Who else but a terrorist would go for a raid on some protesters with automatic weapons and riot gear to stop an alledged brick attack. Our brave law inforcement and air force blowing up mud huts. They did the same thing in Santo Domingo in the fifties. They have done this crap all over the world. One hundred forty lovely bases. They have come home to haunt us. They are real good. They are also cowards. Until Americans are ready to take off their blindfolds they will push us around like the bullies and rats they are. They are the true enemies of the states. As Dennis said, "wake up America" They will use whatever force they deem appropriate to keep us cowering in our devalued overfinanced homes. Then they will foreclose on our sorry ass, undervalued.already illegal civil liberties.
by
robert braunstein (60 articles, 0 quicklinks, 21 diaries, 194 comments [40 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 8:14:23 PM
They will use whatever force they deem appropriate to keep us cowering in our devalued overfinanced homes. Then they will foreclose on our sorry-ass, undervalued already-illegal civil liberties.
Now... back to the Amerikkkan Idol "election."
by
waldopaper (15 articles, 3 quicklinks, 34 diaries, 609 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 8:33:03 PM
Who else but a terrorist would go for a raid on some protesters with automatic weapons and riot gear to stop an alleged brick attack.
Doesn't get much simpler than that, does it?
Overkill. Totally disproportional response.
There is a precept in the law known as "necessary force." While it is very subjective and, in many cases, difficult to determine the absolute boundaries of necessary force in a given situation, this is not one of those difficult situations.
by
JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 10:50:26 PM
Now you may have a better idea why I wrote my challenge a week or so ago. I wasn't just writing for the heck of it. But what we're seeing now is only the tip of the iceberg and we're only seeing that because there just happens to be a large body of media activists around at this time.
Let it be known that these raids are happening other places too -- not just in St. Paul! The Long Haul infoshop in Berkeley, CA was raided just thursday. The police busted in, guns drawn, and stole their computers and files and other equipment. (Perhaps you might want to update your article with that information.)
As I like to say, "they only give us our rights so they can take them away." But I expect this will really give the protesters another reason to protest -- since they're obviously not even safe from the police at home with their children.
The thing is... as bad as things are, I think they're probably even worse than most people imagine. If we don't defend ourselves and our neighbors now, we may never again get an opportunity like this one.
But the whole world will be watching St. Paul and the masses of the world will be in support of the protesters. The tasers will be out and the whole world WILL be watching. The rise of personal video cameras and media tools will make this protest more widely viewed and analyzed than any other -- and much of it will be in real time. This could be huge. This is something that could unite people around the world.
by
R. A. Louis (12 articles, 13 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 87 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 11:58:52 PM
America, the constitution and the bill of rights has gone the way of the Soviet Union. We no longer exist except on old maps.
It is fast coming to a time when we Americans will have to make a choice, to goose step down pennsylvania ave or fight our way down pennsylvania ave to take back our country. It is time to make a decision as to which side of the line in the sand you stand on.
By the way, if you think that this up coming election will happen, you are a fool. By November this country will be a police state "In our best Interest" and we will be slaves to the "cream" on top.
Just remember I told you so.
by
Michael Morris (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 316 comments [4 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 at 7:42:09 AM
What's with the anti-war movement? It's o.k. to break windows and vandolize private property just to protest the war and riot in the streets and scream police brutality? I didn't read anyhting about this in Denver. You're all punks that need to go visit a third world country. try this in Russia or China and you'd be shot, no questions asked. Where is Obama now? Where is our savior of the Universe? We supposed to be proud Democrats.. I'm voting McCain I don't want to associate this this kind of behavior
by
don bybee (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 206 comments) on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 at 6:48:59 PM
Sorry, but this was deliberately caused by agents on behalf of our government, to justify the "need" to suppress our rights for our "safety and security."
by
Drew Terry (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 28 diaries, 125 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 at 9:38:29 PM
I want to know why Obama hasn't commented on the police raids and the other fascist activity. I wonder if he will just let it blow by, because the MSM isn't covering anything other than the "violence", so that is all many people will know about.
by
John Olsen (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 60 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 at 10:05:42 PM
Just got word earlier that Amy Goodman was arrested and they are charging her with rioting> OMG, Amy a reporter, was not rioting. I saw her interviewing this morning. They drum up charges and where are the democrats in congress. This is crap.
So long Don. You are one lost cookie with no knowledge of what is really going on. figures.
Best keep this article rolling.
by
shirley reese (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 592 comments [98 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 at 9:21:16 PM
I just flipped on the TV and CNN was having a brief and stated that "anarchists" are being arrested in MN. This is not good. Amy Goodman and those ppl JUST protesting are not anarchists. Let me make this clear by giving all of you the definition of anarchism:
"the theory that all forms of Gov't are oppressive and undesirable and should be abolished. Active resistance and TERRORISM against the state as use by some anarchists." (who determines who are the "some"). ~~American Heritage.
I think the republicans set the protesters up. Look, they all split and are waiting till ALL the protesters are Locked up and far away not to make them hear the TRUTH. Gaawd, the truth must just burn those sonnofabitch's bloody ears. Probably chokes their bloody windpipes. Oh, that truth they hate, and then they hide behind this supernatural god.
Ask a gray if there is this God that serves you fascists. This cuts deep.
Mister Louis, I read your letter. Please, get some counseling and do take good care. Your story is sad. However, I admire your moxie. OEN doesn't stand with anarchy. We stand with liberty and constitutional law, rule of law including the Bill of Rights. Isn't that correct Mr Kall? Moderator?
by
shirley reese (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 592 comments [98 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 at 10:45:30 PM
The storm has been organizing, and now it is almost here.
I have been called a "chicken little" for many years now, but the writing is on the wall, even to all of those non-believers out there.Just wait until we get a new president, or the old one declares himself dictator(for real).Demo's and Repub's(except for Ron Pau) are all the same. Neither party can stoop low enough to reach their real agenda.Right now they are just warming up. I am not a Bible-thumper, but I do know that Tribulation is just a small part of Revelations.Our country and the entire world is now part of that last chapter.Actually it is now in GOD'S Hands.Maybe I am a "chicken little". I certainly hope so.
by
linda jordan (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Tuesday, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:10:17 PM
In Chicago, if police spotted me carrying a gun they'd pre-emptively arrest me -- because I _might_ use it to commit a crime. In fact, the law tells them to do that!
At least the convention city doesn't _require_ police to pre-emptively arrest protesters, so the 1st Amendment is still ahead.
by
Frank Silbermann (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 14 comments) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 7:49:08 AM
(0+)
Want to post your own comment on this Article?
How would you rate this?
You must be logged in (if signed up) to do ratings.
It's free to signup! And easy. And takes just a minute or two....
Must Read (0) 
Well Said (0) 
News (0) 
Touching (0) 
Funny (0) 
Supported (0) 
Interesting (0) 
Inspiring (0) 
Valuable (0) 
