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August 20, 2008 at 08:25:11
Promoted to Headline (H2) on 8/20/08: by Rob Kall |
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Obama Support July August Difference Democrats 83% 74% -9 Women 50% 42% -8 Catholics 47% 36% -11 Ages <35 59% 47% -12 College Grads 51% 40% -11 Live in Cities 54% 43% -11 Income <$50,000 53% 46% -7 Southerners 46% 35% -11 Total % Barack Obama 38.8 John McCain 44.0 Ralph Nader 1.9 Bob Barr 2.6 Someone else 3.0 NS 9.6 Total 100.0 
Obama in Deep Doo Doo
Between the bashing he's been receiving from dirtball Jerome Corsi, his low profile during the Russian invasion of Georgia and his movement to the right, Obama is in deep doo doo, according to a Zogby Reuters poll. The poll shows McCain ahead of Obama by five points, with Obama losing ground with some of his most important bases.
Pollster John Zogby observed, " Since Obama returned from his overseas trip, it seems like McCain has thrown all the punches. Clearly, the blows have landed. In recent days, Obama is fighting back, going after McCain on the economy, the issue voters care about most. McCain has changed the dynamic of the race heading into the two conventions. That puts more pressure on Obama to go to Denver and effectively define himself and McCain."
It is not unreasonable to apply another consideration to current polls-- the potential for the "Bradley Effect" to kick in. Bradley, the mayor of Los Angeles, and a black, ran for governor of California. Polls predicted he woudl win,. but many white voters who said in polls that they'd vote for him lied. For Obama to win, he needs more than a small poll margin predicting victory. He needs a margin big enough to overcome the Bradley effect. White voters will lie and say they will vote for him when they really won't.
Obama may be hitting a perfect storm of bad news this week. The approval for the Dem led congress is down to 9%, down to 6% for independents and only 12% for DEMOCRATS!
Zogby reports, "Likely voters remain pessimistic about the direction in which the country is headed, with 70% who believe the nation is on the wrong track compared with 73% who said the same in July. Democrats are most likely to take a negative view of the countrys direction, with 86% who now say the country is on the wrong track, a slight increase from 84% who said the same last month. Fewer political independents now think the country is on the wrong track, 73% this month, falling from 82% who said the same in July. Republicans are also less likely to think the country is headed in the wrong direction, with just over half (51%) who now hold that view, compared to 55% last month."
. Bush's approval is slightly up from 25 to 29% approval overall, though one good sign is that for independents, Bush's approval has fallen from 27% in July to 22% in August.
Lower gas prices, the bump in the dollar, and distractions from bad news as the MSM have focused on the feel good coverage of the Beijing Olympics may be contributing to this McCain bump. But that would suggest that Obama's previous leads have been based more on dissatisfaction with Bush and the current state of affairs rather than positive support for Obama. It may indicate that it's not Obama, it's the change he offers that's driven his positive positive poll results before.
On the progressive, further left side of the aisle, there is not a lot of great enthusiasm for Obama. There IS hope. Most progressives knew all along that Obama was not a progressive or even a liberal-- that he was a centrist democrat, not far from bluedog. That's why he was not the choice of most of the progressives and liberals in the blogosphere. When the primary contest narrowed down to Obama and Clinton, with Obama being more of an unknown, and Clinton, having a long history as a centrist, even right wing Democratic Leadership Council Democrat, it was a natural step for progressives to take to back the less right wing candidate. But enthusiastic is not the word one would apply to progressive interest in Obama. They, for the most part, see him as far superior to Republican McCain, but also a disappointment, because of his soft stance on continuing the war, his betrayal on FISA immunity for telecoms, his position on gun control and other examples where he moved towards the right. There's a saying about centrists that progressives often cite-- "People would rather vote for real Republicans than Democrats who act like Republicans.
The fact that Obama is even losing among women is very bad news for Obama, as women are among the strongest demographic for supporting Democrats. Now, this number change once the final convention votes are over and Hillary is officially out of the race. I have a feeling there's still a strong, pent up holding back by a considerable percentage of Hillary supporters-- which will ultimately go Obama's way.
Obama's strongest base is among young voters, under 25. But these are the most unreliable voters and recent polls suggest their intentions to vote are dropping quickly. These poll results look a lot worse if you factor in the reality that among those under 25 voters, a daunting percentage will, instead of voting, stay in their dorm playing on-line multiplayer or the lastest shoot-em up or music video games.
Another point where Obama is in trouble is third party candidates. The Zogby poll asked about Libertarian Bob Barr, independent Ralph Nader and "someone else," the response that pulled more than Barr or Nader. The someone else Obama has nipping at his heels is very likely green party candidate Cynthia McKinney. She's the candidate most often mentioned by progressives who say there's no difference between Dems and Republicans, who say they will no longer vote for the "lesser of two evils." .
Former Democratic congresswoman McKinney was defeated in her last Democratic primary by a much more right-leaning, AIPAC supporting democrat. I'm convinced she was one of those rare incumbents booted out of office because of her opposition to US policy towards Israel. I don't think that's the main reason progressives are supporting her. It's one factor, but most are supporting her because she is not what they consider a corporatist who has "sold out to corporate interests."
This race is still Obama's to lose. There is a huge amount of dissatisfaction with George Bush and the Republican brand, but Republicans are very good at turning voters against Democrats, especially those who don't fight back and who those who try to act like Republicans. As soon as Obama returned from his vacation, he started talking about the economy-- using language almost identical to what Paul Krugman advised that he use in his latest NY Times column.
It looks like Obama is depending upon his political advisors to bring him to victory. Kerry did the same thing. They may have helped him play the primary game, with effective caucus and delegate strategy and gamesmanship defeating Hillary, but to win the presidency, you have to do more. You have to go all the way, showing who you are, what you stand for and what you'll fight for. Mike Dukakis demonstrated how successful Democrats are when they refuse to get tough and fight. Obama better do what he's said and prove to McCain that he doesn't know who he's dealing with-- and make sure McCain finds out soon that Obama is tough enough to fight McCain-- which might show Americans he's tough enough to stand up to our enemies. That will help with the male vote. To get the women's vote Obama needs to show he's a real Democrat, not a Republican lite.
One issue that's a powerful wedge issue Democrats should be using full force this cycle is birth control. The Bush administration is trying to lump birth control/contraception with abortion. Obama and every Democrat running for office should be making it their number one issue after the economy, forcing Republican opponents to take positions on health insurance funding for contraceptives. This has already tripped up McCain, when he was asked why Viagra should be covered and not birth control. It's an issue that drives a huge wedge between pro-life supporters and women who believe in birth control-- an issue that could further divide the evangelical right and weaken the right's hold on them.
This is just one poll, but it captures a moment when a number of forces oppose Obama's favor. It could happen again, in November, particularly with the help of Bush and the right wing's predilection for October Surprises. Obama has the potential to overcome it, but this poll should be a wake-up call that he's not going to coast in and he's not going to do it selling out his progressive base. Most contemporary presidents have won by less than two percentage points. Obama is now losing 5% to Nader and "someone else" and he's losing to women. He better figure out fast how to turn those two factors around.
Rob Kall is executive editor, publisher and site architect of OpEdNews.com, President of Futurehealth, Inc, more...)
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| 48 comments |
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It's a choice between a real Republican and a fake one.
One noteworthy feature about how this has happened is that it's Obama who has chosen to play the entire ballgame on rightwing turf. McCain hasn't moved a millimeter leftwards; while Obama has positioned himself as a virtual Republican -- pandering to TV preachers, evangelical reactionaries, AIPAC zealots, Miami anti-Castro fanatics, Reagan admirers, & the like. Obama is just as enthusiastic about the "War on Terror" as Bush or McCain. Question for Rob: You use this phrase: "...which might show Americans he's tough enough to stand up to our enemies..," apparently recommending that Obama do something along these lines. I hope you realize that this entire idea is nuts. America doesn't have "enemies" that need to be "stood up to." The only reason we have enemies is because we're constantly trying to bully the rest of the world, & they've naturally come to resent it. America doesn't have to be "tough" -- it's already way too tough. It has to look at itself in the mirror, & renounce the path of global domination. by Richard Mynick (2 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 1552 comments [255 recommended, 5 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:02:50 AM  (0+)
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Reply: Bad vibe
Is this a joke ? Polls should be illegal as corruptive to the electoral process..- Better minds conclude Rueters and Zogby to be part and parcel to the election reform debacle- Skewing poll results to justify bogus vote counts is a crime against the state and the people of the world- Crooked pollsters. and those who assist them, should be noted by all as part of this sinister game. BT by Brent Turner (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 94 comments) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:32:49 AM (0+)
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Reply: Exactly
Beyond the very valid reasons Obama's not doing better, is the initial question about why he's down in the polls; my first reaction was "IS he?" I've had the feeling for some time that these polls are seriously skewed -especially right-wing Zogby! It's just a matter of questioning the "Right" people, after all! Still, Obama would do well to heed the advice here. He may have to go as far as selecting Hillery after all to win. Selecting Bayh, Biden, or the guy from Virginia just ain't gonna get it! (although I like the Caroline Kennedy idea of Moore's!) (Sigh) the Year of Pragmatism! by Bia Winter (6 articles, 2 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 756 comments [119 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 8:25:54 AM (0+)
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Reply: Hillary?
Oh please, let's not go there! by L.M. Arndt (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 54 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:28:03 PM (0+)
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Reply: The Polls, like the news, is MANUFACTURED -here's why...
Clearly Republicans are dead in the water and the Democrats have been blocking impeachment, funding the war, passing FISA, funding big PhRMA, etc., etc., etc., on and on and on... face it -there are maybe seven members of congress who aren't dirty. I firmly believe that there has been such a mass exodus from the Democratic Party and the admitted dearth of donations should bear this out that the head-cheezes are putting out orders to falsify the polls to make it seem that McCain is in the lead only to scare people into voting democrat. In the final analysis, it doesn't matter which party takes power... they own them both. Herd in all those, and I don't say sheeple because they are the opposite, who might be leaning Green Party or Independent. Case in point: Bob Barr and Nader's ratings barely register. Are you kidding me? These clowns still want to keep the polish on the myth that there are only two parties in this race. DON'T BUY THE HYPE... I'm not going to pull the lever for the immoral turd who will lie, tax, poison, bankrupt, terrorize, imprison me. and ruin my environment, kill my children and neighbors, make wealthy wealthier and make me their slave, treat animals like they are plants, etc., etc., etc., on to infinitum... peace, love and mercy... pass it on. by bucketslogg (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 259 comments [99 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 at 4:12:50 AM (0+)
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Obama the Lama
Unless Obama shows some balls he's going to go the way of Kerry and Gore. Voters perceive him as a "willy milquetoast" and not a pugilist. He needs to take the gloves off and hit hard and hit again. His rescindent positions on the Iraq war and FISA turned off many "progressives". People are really pissed off after the democrats folded two years ago after promising change, but then did nothing. There's no incentive to vote for another mediocre candidate who tries to appease everyone, votes "present", and otherwise offers nothing of substance to differentiate himself from the mentally deficient McCain. by Cinderfella (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 248 comments [95 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:15:26 AM (0+)
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A white male VP might be the nail in Obama's coffin
Linda Milazzo, Michael Moore and I (in separate articles on this site) all proposed Caroline Kennedy for VP, and according to this Zogby poll, she might be the one thing that can save Obama now. Think of the effect her participation would have on all the groups listed in the table, above: her presence would make an immediate reversal on most of them. Not to mention that it’s time for a woman VP. by Meryl Ann Butler (70 articles, 82 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 721 comments [29 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:40:33 AM (0+)
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Reply: Caroline Kennedy
Good god, why not Minnie Mouse? If Obama loses to McCain, it will merely prove that the lights are well and truly out in America and we need no one to flip off the switch. What the hell is this, American idol? by Jim Freeman (108 articles, 53 quicklinks, 227 diaries, 386 comments) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:56:42 AM (0+)
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Reply: If Obama had tried just a little bit to stay true...
If he didn't sell out on FISA, the Patriot Act, Afghanistan, off-shore drilling, etc., he could have balanced (what would have been) some of his truly progressive liberalism with a tough guy (like Wesley Clark) to balance the ticket. But now that he's alienated so much of his leftist support he'll have to consider that when choosing his running mate. And another perceived liberal on the the ticket won't help him with the votes he needs from the so-called center. Clinton would, unfortunately, be his best option to shore up the center. But does enough of the voting public really want her to be the VP? Maybe, I don't know. But that's all he had to do... keep his left support happy and then balance the ticket with some token good ol' boy. Not that I'm an Obama backer, but he should have had this election won already. Instead, he just kept blatantly selling out and now he's going to have a weak ticket as a consequence. McCain, on the other hand, will probably run with some big image politician and get a shoo-in. I think the real threat in that regard would be Lieberman. I mean... if Obama and his running mate both appeal to the left, a McCain/Lieberman ticket could destroy any chance they have (as those two are often presented and perceived as "centrists"). I'm still hopeful that McCain and Obama will actually come to blows during one of their debates so we'll truly have a better idea of who should lead this nation. After all, Putin is a judo expert donchaknow. by R. A. Louis (12 articles, 13 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 87 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:56:05 AM (0+)
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Reply: He deserves Lieberman!
(WE don't!) Come to think of it, he deserves Condi even more! by Bia Winter (6 articles, 2 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 756 comments [119 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 8:31:16 AM (0+)
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This race should be a shut out
Obama should be winning by 20% or more. The problem is he is fighting against the Republicans most effective and deftly wielded weapon ... American stupidity. I consider myself to be extremely lucky in that I have the time to read about news and all manor of issues both foreign and domestic at great length. I am considerably well informed on everything from abortion to macro economics to current geopolitical conflicts and their historical context. But most voters in America are not so lucky. They rely on local news and sometimes CNN or Faux for their understanding of world events. Each day I read cnn online just to see what the world looks like through the eyes of the average American. What I find is that plain every day folks are not only completely blind to most the problems they should be concerned with, they are also misinformed, mislead, and manipulated on those problems they do hear about. Obama would clearly make a better president but he has go through the near impossible task of educating Americans to the point that would allow them to realize it. And although I believe there is a deliberate anti-intellectualism movement in America, the real fault for this phenomenon lies with the press. by erik mouse (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 106 comments) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:40:33 AM (0+)
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Reply: Touché
well put, thanks. by Meryl Ann Butler (70 articles, 82 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 721 comments [29 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:45:13 AM (0+)
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Obama may well lose the election and here's why:
This hurts me to say it, it genuinely hurts me, but I don’t think Obama will win for the following reasons: 1) It seems that no presidential or vice presidential candidate with a foreign sounding, non redneck-mainstream name ever seems to win. Witness Dukakis, Lieberman, Barry Goldwater (sounded Jewish), there may be others. American’s don’t like a name that doesn’t sound white, mainstreet and that has more than two syllables. Won’t vote for ‘em. 2) Obama is too intelligent and intellectual. The same mistake George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, John Kerry made was that they didn’t realize that the American public wants “all stupid all the time”; they want black and white contrasts presented to them; they want militaristic, sloganeering, simple minded, instant solutions to all national problems and the Democrats keep forgetting that the public dislikes nuance and detailed policy presentations that require a bit of rationality. Public hates that.. It makes their brains hurt and they even suspect a person who is too ‘pointy headed’as if they aren’t somehow manly enough. The public hates a candidate who advocates any forethought, any planning, any deferred gratification or any telling of inconvenient truth. Witness the reelection of George W. Bush even after being caught in more than one scandal between 2000 and 2004, even after starting a bogus war and bankrupting the country. The public knew Bush was a lying crook but didn’t care. He offered them those comfortable slogans and that smearing that the public loves so much even as it complains about negative campaigning. Bush played Rovian slanderous, patriot-baiting politics.and the American public mistook it for ‘decisiveness’. 3) .Obama hasn’t been on the offensive in this campaign. As Michael Moore says, whoever isn’t attacking first and doing the defining is losing. Obama ought to have been constant and relentless on McCain as McBush. Instead he just issues a few vague attacks but then lets McCain’s low blows keep landing with a daily drumbeat in the co-conspiratorial mainstream press which has already anointed McCain and has decided Obama isn’t up to the job. And this, in spite of the fact that McCain is a liar, has a terrible record of duplicity, dirty dealing, bad character, bad temper, falsified hero status, and so forth. The false public image of himself put out there has stuck, to his benefit in the public mind, in spite of his obviously being a slanderer, and committing multiple gaffes that ought to call into question his fitness and expert status. The press passes over McCain’s constant outbreaks of dishonesty and instead credits him with being an experienced, steady, maverick, a cranky but kindly old grandfather figure who will keep our country safe from those big bad Russians and all the terrorists over whom McCain promises easy victory. Yes, the press kingmakers have decided on McCain, probably aided by hefty influence from Exxon Mobile and other right-leaning corpies with fat wallets. The press is a big factor in this. They tell the public what to think and the public thinks exactly what they’re told to think. 4) If Obama doesn’t pick Hillary to be his running mate and let her and Bill run interference for him, then he’ll lose. Plain and simple. And it sounds like he hasn’t picked Hillary. Biden won’t get the job done, much less unknowns like Kaine or Bayh. Even if he pulls a rabbit out of the hat and nominates Wesley Clarke so he can run on national security, Obama is going to have to completely change his current campaign tactics of letting McCain call the shots or he’ll lose. I think he’s going to lose and it pains me beyond compare, because I see exactly what John McCain is, and I will say with confidence that if and when McCain gets in, it will certainly be the end of this country because McCain is crazy, dishonest, unprincipled, low down and dirty. He will make a much worse president even than George W. Bush and in the deal may just start a nuclear war when the USA runs out of credit, out of military options and out of time. McCain is so enamored of war and has such a hot temper, I do believe he’d press the button and wipe us all out in the name of vengeance and national security. So the long and short of it is Obama is too smart, too foreign sounding, too rational, not mean, down and dirty enough and is too black to become president. The rednecks, a lot of them, will vote on the basis of something as stupid as race or foreign sounding name. America is too moronic to elect Barack Obama. I’m really sorry to have to say all this but it is how I see it. by JOHN LORENZ (23 articles, 117 quicklinks, 118 diaries, 313 comments [25 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:45:23 AM (0+)
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Reply: You forgot about the facts that he stands for nothing, & is
Republican-Lite. Don't you suppose the public can see that he's adopted almost all Republican positions, & that this demonstrates gutlessness and lack of conviction? The guy panders to AIPAC, the anti-Castro fanatics, evangelicals & TV preachers. He supports the fraudulent "War on Terror." He sided with Scalia on several recent Court decisions. He took Bush's position on FISA. Why should the public choose the "more-intelligent" wannabe-warmonger over the real thing? Obama is running a rightwing campaign, trying to compete on the traditional turf of Republicans. If the public wants a rightwinger, they may as well choose the real thing. Obama's problem is not being "too intelligent" or too "foreign-sounding." Rather, exactly like Kerry & Gore before him (who were also more intelligent than their opponent), he's not really offering anything to the public, and they can see it. by Richard Mynick (2 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 1552 comments [255 recommended, 5 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:31:22 PM (0+)
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hardly surprising
The Obama campaign gas been inept so far, letting his candidate being railroaded all over by the Rovians in McCain's staff. Obama lecturing McCain: ''dignify your campaign'', for God's sake. When you hire Rove's thugs to run your campaign, it's obviously because YOU DON'T WANT a dignified campaign, you want under the belt blows, slander, lies and dirty tricks. The world is a nasty place, and Obama better get used to it, fast, instead of ''rising above the fray'' and ''taking the high road'' straight to nowhere. The Obama image is beginning to set in people's mind: weak, too angelic, too academic, can't fight worth a damn, no balls, a loser--like Kerry, like Gore. He will have a hard time changing it now. by francine (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 385 comments) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:53:00 AM (0+)
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Mr Lorenz
Your analysis is sharp and absolutely spot on. Intellectualism is the kiss of death in the US; apparently Obama hasn't figured out yet that when he talks to American voters, he is not addressing a class of law students at Harvard. And this notion that ''Americans will know better'' than to fall for McCain's BS and slander!!! No, they won't; a minority of them will, the rest is either too brainwashed to know better, or too tired to search for the information they need to know better, what with the two jobs, mortgage and bills to pay. Appealing to their higher sense of ethics is not a valid electoral strategy against Republicans, you might as well lecture a pig about not wallowing in the mud. In fact, it's annoying as hell and it's beginning to grate on everybody's nerves, including staunch Democratic supporters. by francine (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 385 comments) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:20:46 AM (0+)
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A couple of points
If progressives had gotten their way the presumptive nominee would now be...John Edwards! Perhaps Obama and his people are concentrating on the big poll in November, the one that counts. by Maxwell (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 409 comments [85 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:51:54 AM (0+)
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Reply: Maybe if he Led the Charge for Impeachment
that would up his toughness quotient, refocus the debate on the Republicans, and differentiate him from the rest of Congress who won't give the people the satisfaction of kicking Bush's behind out of the White House? by ClearEye (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 20 comments) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:59:45 AM (0+)
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Mixed Signals
I found Rob's recounting of results of the Zogby/Reuters poll a depressing conclusion to my morning's survey of news and opinion offered by many fine alternative channels, including OEN, of course. All the more so because of the contrast between that subject and findings from the Drum Major Institute's "first annual survey on the middle class and public policy", which I first read about this morning. Based on my quick perusal, I'd say the majority of the middle class members surveyed strongly supported many elements of a fine, very progressive agenda -- whether Democratic, Republican, or Independent, politically. Of course, the rumor that Obama may choose Evan Bayh -- reportedly Lieberman Lite, a neocon and Bilderburger to boot -- as a VP nominee had already greatly dampened my optimistic outlook, so discussion of the Zogby/Reuters poll wasn't the downer it could have been. If Obama does select Bayh, however, I'll move on to work for and support a so-called "third-party candidate". I join others in rather having "real Repubicans" in the open and in charge so that, when things go really bad, people still in the dark today will know to whom to point their fingers. Then, perhaps, we can all take personal and individual responsibility for our collective mess and start the clean up and restoration of our nation. by Alan Donelson (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 86 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:02:11 PM (0+)
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Grumble P*ssies
Seems to be alot of bitter Hillary supporters falling over each other to say 'told you so!'. So let's be clear, Clinton lost. I know some of you are harboring hopes of a convention upset. I know that some of you are hoping for a McCain victory so that 2012 will go easily to Clinton. I know any bad news for the Obama campaign is like a little victory for Hillary supporters in their football team mentality view of politics. But this attitude is not going to save you from a failing economy. Be in a grumble p*ssy will not lessen your childrens or your grandchildrens obligation to pay the debt America is still racking up exponentialy. It won't restore respect and dignity to the lable 'American'. We are litteraly in the fight for our lives with this election. And if the democratic party nominated Micky f'n Mouse the candidate I'd be wearing those stupid ears everyday. So get on the bus or get the hell out of my lane. by erik mouse (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 106 comments) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:04:27 PM (0+)
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he has to stop hiding in the back of the political bus
Well, at least its better to get polls like this now instead of getting them for the first time in, say October. His campaign is FUNDAMENTALLY flawed becaue he still hasn't got it that his core base are passionate liberals. Naturally we need some political chess to keep as many centrists as possible on board, but he's got to come to the front of the political bus and kick some liberal ass. Part of this is the corporate press, but we know all that and we also know that can be overcome if Obama SPEAKS OUT. His mouseyness has been a terrible disappointment. If he reconnects with the liberals we're fire him up again with intelligent, moral, patriotic passion. We've got to get him away from Clinton-type DLC advisors who, as always, are running (and ruining) EVERYTHING!!! by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (291 articles, 59 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 763 comments [44 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:10:04 PM (0+)
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FISA Obliterated Obama's Hope
Those who voted to trash the 4th Amendment, both in the House and the Senate, betrayed this nation. They are traitors__and St Barack is no exception. The only conceivable reason for Obama to abandon his January pledge to support a fillibuster and spit on the sacred rights of every American is that he wants to retain those spying powers for himself should he become the President of the United States. Throughout the primary I held a dislike for Hillary Clinton and equally fervent praise of Obama. But I am no fool, nor am I a lemming so mesmerized that I can't see at last just what great oratory hid from all of us: We now must recognize that Barack is a liar. We must now recognize, therefore, that he will treat as just words, as has Bush, the Presidential Oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. If Obama refused to abide by that oath taken as a senator, only a fool can believe he will as President. Our freedoms have been further eroded by the candidate of "change". The "hope" he offers is dependant on our desperation to believe. He has demonstrated repeatedly he will jilt all those who brought him to the dance, even ejected his primary advisors for the same old same old Washington insiders. When the history of this campaign is written, historians will pinpoint the end of any chance of an Obama presidency to his FISA vote. And I do have a choice in November. I will write in the name of the woman who honored her oath to the Constitution when she voted against FISA: Hillary Rodham Clinton. by Robert Arend (24 articles, 30 quicklinks, 21 diaries, 240 comments [22 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:22:39 PM (0+)
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Lets not forget that they all had another choice!
In reading this comment page (briefly) and I say briefly simply due to the fact that the mention or print of McCain or Obama's name makes me ill and I didn't see one mention of Ron Paul! Yes, I am a Ron Paul supporter and did my time in the snow supporting the campaign. I would like to say that I had the privilege to meet this very sincere and honest man and when shaking his hand, felt that I was indeed shaking the hand of a true patriot. Not only did I feel this way but so did my 2 yr old son! You see, my son is very shy and reserved when it comes to meeting new people. We all went down to see Dr. Paul at a rally in Indiana. After the rally, Dr. Paul sat at a table outside of the hall. There was a long line awaiting the chance to get a signature or a picture. When we finally got up to the table, I had my book and shirt signed. I also wanted to have a picture with my son and Dr. Paul. I sent my son around the table to get his picture taken. Being he was 2 and short, Dr.Paul didn't see him on his right side but my son, my shy reserved son stood next to him with his arms on the table as if it were Santa Claus! Finally, Dr.Paul seen that my son was patiently waiting and he put his arm around him and gave us a very good picture opportunity. Actually two as my son blinked. All this time, my 2 yr old didn't flinch. It was like he knew him for the first two years of his life. I tend to think of my son as having very good intuition. Just as an animal has due to the fact that they are typically innocent and untrained. After seeing this, it was cemented that the ONLY viable candidate for president was RON PAUL! Due to the fact that what was done to RON PAUL by the MSM in where they failed to follow or give him the proper time or airplay, also cemented my feelings. This is why I said, you all had another choice! Had the right thing been done, we wouldn't be dealing with all the propaganda BS! We wouldn't care about VP's. We would have a real conservative leader waiting to come in a fix our broken country and now, now we have two candidate's that combine into one party. They both want the same thing and offer all the same lies to the ignorant public! More wars, more taxes, more control, loss of liberty, loss of freedom and loss of our country. by Hal Smith (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 67 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 3:06:53 PM (0+)
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How low can you go?
Obama says he won't withdraw troops from Iraq and will keep a "strike force" in the Middle East. He doesn't plan on offering health care for all Americans. He is OK with Bush's FISA bill, he is wishy washy on NAFTA, he will change nothing on Wall St, and the insurance, banking, and credit card companies can continue to screw us until we're all blue in the face. It looks like all that change he was talking about amounted to a lot of nothing. Let's see, why was I supposed to be excited about Obama? Oh yeah I remember now,..... because he isn't John McCain. He has been setting the bar lower every day......is he running for president or doing the limbo? by vidiot (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 300 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 3:43:54 PM (0+)
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Maybe if ...
Obama called 9/11 an inside job, called for impeachment, indictments, trials, hangings, quit acting like war is the answer, stopped being a sock-puppet for international bankers and corporations and quit playing to the lowest common denominator that represents what I jokingly call the American public. It's all a lie. Every bit of it. The polls. The media. The delegates. The e-voting machines. Your nuance of a sham of an election that represents no one but the people that put it on to give us the illusion we have some say in anything. Apparently you can fool all of the people all of the time. Or at least the people of this dumbed-down, deluded, self-important, selfish, self-indulgent, pseudo-intellectuals in this country. Ooooh, Obama is down, no he's up, he needs to do this, no that, and for what? To influence a thumb-sucking public that is going to go to vote on a machine that may or may not ("not" being more likely) count their vote, for a person that in the end is nothing more than an accomplice to mass murder. Some choice. Some election. Some sham. For Christ's sake, even Pakistan has a better handle on how a government should work. We'll be lucky to even have an election the way these cretins are trying to push us over the cliff by provoking a war with Russia. But, never mind that, what are the polls telling us? Is that a real Abominable Snowman? What does Paris Hilton have to say? Plate after plate of crap is placed in front of you and you keep eating it up as though it were a gourmet meal. M-m-m, give me more! Did any of you think that Obama was selected to be shot down? That this whole thing was a set-up from the get-go? Think for Christ sake. What would crush any hope faster than to crush the messenger of hope? What would further disenfranchise an already disillusioned public and bring on Martial Law faster than to have another phony election slapped in the face of those stupid enough to be suckered into believing they had a chance? Ah, what does it matter? We have murders in office, enablers of murders running for office and a whole bunch of people thinking - scratch that - if they were thinking we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. Want the truth? Forget about this sham of an election, buy seeds, hand tools, guns, ammo, medical supplies and lots of preservable food and pray like hell you can get through the next few years. We should of taken these cretins down for Waco, Oklahoma City, the first WTC bombings, but we didn't and they committed 9/11 and now that they've gotten away with all these murders this idiot, cowardly public keeps hoping against hope that some illusion will save them and not interrupt their lifestyle. You fools, you idiots, it's over. Like those poor souls that jumped to their deaths from the WTC buildings we're half-way to the ground and all we can do is watch. Sorry if these words are too harsh. I tend to feel this way when I'm among fools. It's gotten to the point I couldn't care anymore than those that planted the charges in the WTC buildings cared about the people they would kill, and until I hear Obama say he wants them swinging from a rope I couldn't care less if he jumped from a building himself. by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:03:54 PM (0+)
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Reply: MR. M
They should have been taken down for the Iran-Contra affair. George H.W. Bush's hands were all over that one, and he proved it when he chose an idiot as his V.P.. They sabotaged Jimmy Carter's presidency, then committed treason behind Reagan's back, and now they are all either high officials or heros of the Republic--Ollie North tells us War Stories on Fox News once a week when he should be doing life in a federal prison for treason. by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 6:24:21 PM (0+)
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Reply: Indeed
The more one studies the subversion of this country the more one finds just how rotten it is. The same names keep cropping-up, only the times change, the players don't. One could follow this back to 1913 and the formation of the Federal Reserve Bank, or if you wish even further back to ancient ruling families. The Illuminati is real, Bilderbergs, Tri-Later Commission, Skull & Bones, Free Masons, these are all real and frightening organizations that are in place for one reason, to keep themselves on top and us in slavery. What's real is real, Operation Paperclip which brought over an estimated 5,000 Nazi intelligence agents and scientists and placed them in our government is real. We didn't defeat them - they concurred us. Prescott Bush was a Nazi, does anyone think the fruit falls far from the tree? But no, not in this country, we pretend all this isn't real. We're "free". Free, my ass. CODEX Alimentarius is real. Mossanto is real. GMO is real. FEMA Camps is real. E-voting machines is real. Eugenics is real. What's unreal is that everyone pretends these things aren't foremost in our lives. We'd rather nuance the trivial. by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 8:33:50 PM (0+)
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You can't erase or suppress the truth
I have been warning about this for months. Since the primary Obama has been sounding more like a Neo-con than most of them. He has said more than once he may rehire Blackwater. What, does he live in a cocoon cut off from the news? He says he wants to move the troops in Iraq into Afghanistan. That was the real reason Clinton was impeached he refused to use US troops to protect the oil pipeline there or to give the Taliban "2 billion "Protection" money to NOT rupture the pipeline. He has said not word one about rescinding the Patriot Act or the Military Commissions Act of 2006, or the Bankruptcy Act, and much much... less. He sounds more like Hillary than she does, and more like Bush than McCain does. Vote for a democrat who espouses Neo-con ideals, or a republican who espouses Neo-con ideals. Right now there is one party of two parts. One a tiny bit shy of fascism and the other two tiny bits shy of fascism. Take your choice. Personally, I chose Mickey Mouse, or better still, Minnie Mouse, or even more betterlyingness, Mighty Mouse. Good article Rob! by Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1317 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 6:16:18 PM (0+)
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thank u mr m
Mr M.. Once again you nailed it. This sham election is just a play enacted for us by the powers that be to keep us arguing amongst ourselves while they plot and plan WWIII. A real life "truman show". It matters not which nwo puppet wins. They are one and the same. Choice? ha! There is only one "choice". That is to wake the hell up and stop playing the fool. You know who McCain is. Obama has been trying to show you who he really is. A liar who has voted for fisa in order to keep the same civil liberty crushing powers that bush has now. That is all you need to know in order to NOT vote for him. Just like McCain. Obama will lose many votes to third party candidates. Amen to that. by jersey girl (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1201 comments [734 recommended, 12 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 6:17:20 PM (0+)
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Reply: You're welcome ...
you and me in the bunker together ... I'll bring the wine. by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 8:38:45 PM (0+)
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Other than Sham Polls...
Like this one because if you read between the lines the polled are those who are at home sitting on their asses in front of their beloved electronic god in the living room vs. the more savvy and informed who choose not to rot in front of their TV you can see that the numbers are skewed and a scam as well. Now WHY is this happening NOW A cynic like myself smells a Clintonist overthrow at the Denver Convention next week by portraying Jesus Obama as unelectable - at the very least it is pressure for the V.P. slot and we all know how well that worked out for LBJ. On the other hand, a lot of folks including myself are pissed as hell at Mr. Obama for his feckless pandering - screw the nauseating display of him prostrating himself in front of AIPAC the vomit reflex was triggered during that false prophet Rick Warren's travelling salvation show last week - which has turned off those of us who are very serious about this change thing and aren't going to be hornswoggled by some finely atired frontman for the looter capitalist empire. Now here is the funny thing, an Obama advance research operative called me at home tonight asking me what I thought. -I said that while I have ALWAYS been a registered independent I have always voted Democrat with the exception of Ross Perot in 96. -I said that I am furious over busting my ass to elect Democrats in 2006 only to go Judas and refuse to live up to their implied contract in ending the war and holding the war criminals accountable. -I told her that the minute that St. Barack threw Reverend Wright under the bus for telling the truth (although it could have been expressed better) that I smelled the big con coming again. -And finally I said that my vote will NOT go to any Democrat from now until hell freezes over until that corrupt lie of an opposition party stands up for working class Americans again. There was a long and uncomfortable silence on the other end of the phone and then I said please feel free to call back in October. Just my two cents The polls lie as badly as the charlatans that the two party oligarchy trots out as legitimate choices. EE by Ed Encho (12 articles, 20 quicklinks, 65 diaries, 438 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 6:28:36 PM (0+)
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Poll
Comment from Ratings: Thanks for the good laugh Rob. Polls such as Zogby's serve only one purpose, keeping it believable that McCains imminent improbable victory was not by electronic chicanery by kato krause (2 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 216 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 6:35:29 PM (0+)
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A No-Brainer
Quote: "But that would suggest that Obama's previous leads have been based more on dissatisfaction with Bush and the current state of affairs rather than positive support for Obama. It may indicate that it's not Obama, it's the change he offers that's driven his positive positive poll results before." BINGO! And that's why McCain's attack ads dispelling the "myth" of Obama have seemingly been so effective. The shine is tarnsihed from "Obama the agent of change" and "Obama the world celebrity" thanks to McCain's Rovian tactics. What's the lesson here? Negative campaigns work! They always have and they always will and few are better at it than Republican operatives like Rove and his ilk. Obama needs to take the gloves off at and after the Democratic National Convention or he's toast. He needs to tie Bush and McCain together at the hip, especially keep hitting him for non-sensical tax breaks to the oil giants. Unfortunately, he can't hit McCain for his bellicose foreign policy because he's trying so hard to mimic him in that way (he doesn't want to be seen as soft on foreign policy, McCain's perceived strength). The only real foreign policy difference he offers is a phased withdrawal from Iraq as opposed to an open ended commitment, and the good news from Iraq lately has hurt Obama's position and bolstered McCain's. These numbers and the so-called Bradley effect are a bad omen for Obama at this stage of the race. For him to turn things around he has to take off the gloves and run some hard-hitting attack ads of his own. I think Obama's people understand this and are planning some negative attack ads (at least that's what I've heard). Why they've taken so long to really respond to the GOP attacks in beyond me. Just wait until the "Swiftboat" ads start appearing in the Fall. Obama will be under a barrage of negative attack ads, so he'd better know how to fight back. So far he's seemed too effete to fight. He took care of Hillary's attack ads. Now he needs to do the same from those emanating from the right. by Sam Adams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 90 comments) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 6:56:25 PM (0+)
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Okay, let's calm down
Seems like a lot of folks have got their panties in a wad (knickers in a twist, if any Brits are bothering with us at the moment) in several directions at once. We're now in the doldrums before the DNC, and the pollsters and media wind machines have very little to spin with. Before yelling I TOLD YOU SO, or WHAT'S WITH HIM? or PROGRESSIVES NEVER LIKED HIM ANYWAY, SO THERE! let's keep cool and keep the faith. And with all respect, Brother Koll, you might search your soul as to whether you're slowly morphing into one of those wind machines. by Jim Stinson (14 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:17:15 PM (0+)
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Reply: Gunshot wound in foot
It's Kall, of course. No matter how hard I proofread... by Jim Stinson (14 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:18:37 PM (0+)
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Change they have been fooled about.
Obama needs to satisfy his ego, and he is not going to do anything to jeopardize his chance of becoming president. That is one of the reasons why he will continue to endorse the Illinois politicians who epitomize nepotism, patronage, and corruption in general. He also has no qualms against supporting Blue Dog Democratic Congresswoman, Melissa Bean (IL. 8th). by John Olsen (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 60 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:23:20 PM (0+)
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Reply: Right,
you can say that again. by vidiot (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 300 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 8:07:47 PM (0+)
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fake corporate election 08!
FAKE CORPORATE ELECTION O8 We saw CNN nominate Obama or Hillary the two furthest right of the dems. As it turned out they needed to go with Obama because he was better at equovocation. The Dems have used none of the best horrible bush stuff . THey shooting bbs because they are paid to lose. How in thehell could OBama not be using class issues after the class mugging we have seen bey Wall Street over the last 20years? I DONT BELEIVE I EVEN NEED TO TYPE THIS PEOPLE KNOW THIS ITS JUST NOT BEING MEDIATED BY THE CORPORATE MEDIA. by Nathaniel Heidenheimer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 47 comments) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 9:06:37 PM (0+)
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don't get me wet started
I keep getting this nagging feeling the whole damn show is rigged now. Gore sure gaveled the voices into silence when he "lost" like he relished it. And Kerry was not only fast to concede defeat in 2004 despite the exit polls, his claims of being brave, and holding a sizeable war chest to dispute the discrepancies, but he deliberately chose to say that he approved of the "way the vote was counted". I look at his half hearted investigations that always ended just before fingering the Bush mafia and Skull and Bones background and think no wonder they chose him for the role of "opponent". And now watching Obama take massive public support for change and a twenty percent lead and systematically destroy his credibility as though he is following orders, I wonder if he really is just another actor in a tragedy who gets off on plane rides and rubbing shoulders with the powerful. it was abundantly clear that he didn't have to pander to AIPAC because three fourths of American Jews opposed the war in Iraq. Obama was never answering the demands of any political constituency unless you include fascism which is the real master of all these players. Obama was getting way too popular with talking about changing things to where war would not be waged for the old reasons, then he abruptly pledged total fealty to the regime foisting war on us all, and that makes no sense whatsover for a supposedly intelligent dude. He's obviously a puppet. Oh Mr. Obama get a backbone and bring back the old change mantra to match te signs on your airplane. It's bizarre to me that Bush and McCain both have shaky military experience- http://judicial-inc.biz/82jjohn_mccain_and_the_uss_forresta.htm because the last thing you want is a loose cannon on board. by mary sunshine (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 149 comments [79 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:16:15 PM (0+)
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Reply: bingo !
Mary, I felt that right after Kerry conceded so quickly. I thought, aha! the ole skull & bones committment is kickin' in. You aren't crazy. Those who call us tin foil hatters are the crazy ones because it's all right in front of them but they refuse to see. by jersey girl (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1201 comments [734 recommended, 12 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:06:32 AM (0+)
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Reply: The AIPAC thing
"it was abundantly clear that he didn't have to pander to AIPAC because three fourths of American Jews opposed the war in Iraq." Yeah, Mary, but at least 3/4ths of them still have more allegiance to Israel than the U.S.. Call ME a tin-hatter, but it's Israel and treasonous AIPAC that's really calling the shots and pulling the strings here. That's why all the politicians feel they have to kiss Aipac-ass. Just witness the debacle in Georgia: Israelis trained the "Uprising" and supplied the weaponry..most probably bought with OUR tax money! by Bia Winter (6 articles, 2 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 756 comments [119 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 8:58:48 AM (0+)
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What's with the glum mood over Obama?
I said back in January that I would not vote for the guy and I still wouldn't. Now if all you people really want change, vote for Mike Gravel in November. by Stanimal (2 articles, 226 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 1254 comments [233 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:27:57 AM (0+)
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Thanks Mr M
I'll bring the freeze dried pasta. lol Just send good directions to the bunker because I have a feeling we're gonna need it really soon.......... by jersey girl (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1201 comments [734 recommended, 12 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:03:28 AM (0+)
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Frick and Frack
Remind me of that old commercial for chicken mcnuggets or something done by a competitor - pieces are pieces and parts are parts. Obama and McCain are interchangible ass clowns who will do nothing whatsoever to change the course of a disastrous foreign policy that now incredibly has the U.S. on a collision course with Russia who does have nukes and a shitload of them. I defended Obama against that corporate harlot Hillary Rodham Clinton despite the protestations of others as well as their good advice at the time of people not as naive as I to believe that there was enough of a functional system left that it could still be changed through traditional means - I was wrong. The Reverend Wright thing put a burr up my ass because every damned thing that the man said was spot on and the full pressure of the pocket media kingmakers was brought down on Mr. Obama including a brutal interview on Press the Meat by the prematurely deceased courtier and stooge Tim Russert. Obama could have used it as an opening to address the issues of American imperialism, racism, state sanctioned medical experimentation on blacks (see Tuskegee) and the blowback of 9/11 (which I am a skeptic of because I still believe that it was a highly coordinated Edward Luttwak style coup d'etat undertaken by a multi-national cadre of professionals). But he caved Then there was the groveling at the feet of those extremist right wingers over in Israel to prove that he was trustworthy enough to continue to turn a blind eye to their monstrous human rights violations, their infiltration of the U.S. government for the purpose of espionage and blackmail and their ongoing cynical abuse of The Holocaust as justification to wage their own genocidal campaigns. FISA was what really soured me on Obama, the Democrats have NO intention whatsoever of restoring the rule of law to the land or our civil liberties and the cowardly cave in on Bush's illegal spying (to GWB's credit it was going on long before he arrived though through ECHELON and Main Core )and the granting of Telecom immunity for their crimes. There have been a myriad of other things as well but the disgusting suckfest in front of the Raptureheads and other misguided knuckledraggers who hate for Jesus at that false prophet Rick Warren's goat barn was the final straw. To hell withi them all man, this thing is too far gone to be saved and I no longer advocate even participating in the con game by voting (in this particular election anyway) - it is a waste of time and bestows the aura of legitimacy on a corrupt lie of a process. Just my two cents over the Morning Joe EE FLUSH THE TOILET IN 2010! by Ed Encho (12 articles, 20 quicklinks, 65 diaries, 438 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:14:35 AM (0+)
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"What the hell is this, American idol?"
Exactly. Maggie Simpson's steering wheel. by waldopaper (15 articles, 3 quicklinks, 34 diaries, 609 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 7:04:00 AM (0+)
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A Surprise Ending?
Rob, in your article I think you said: "Now, this number change once the final convention votes are over and Hillary is officially out of the race." I may have misunderstood what you are saying, but it made me think of this: Barack Obama decided that at the convention he wanted to put Hillary's name into nomination, then let her throw her delegates to him. Bill Clinton is still campaigning for her by trashing Barack. They don't call the Clintons the comeback kids for nothing. It isn't over till it's over. The superdelegates have been flipppping back and forth and their votes don't count until they vote at the convention. what if Barack offered her vp and she said no? Becuase she's going for it all at the convention. She swept the last bunch of primaries and all the big states and where he is week demographically, wwith women and whites, she is strong. I can see the party leadership saying at the convention, "We are at war with russia. Nobody is going to elect a green black guy. Hillary and Bill are our only hope. Lets vote for Hillary and give her a kick ass vp." Then Hillary clinton wins the nomination. Would the Democrats have the balls to pull this off? It may alienate blacks forever. But she could make Barack VP. Or colin Powell or condi. Hillary and condi would be unbeatable. I'm not predicting this, but stranger things have happened. by Karen Fish (55 articles, 14 quicklinks, 41 diaries, 106 comments) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:45:30 AM (0+)
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Reply: Republicrats are circling the wagons...
What people need to remember is that there are HUGE protests planned for BOTH conventions. And you can believe, as large as they'll be, more people would show up and protest if they could! Lots of people are perfectly aware of how corrupt the system is and they are literally taking to the streets! And while not everyone in the U.S. may support the protest movement, many do -- and around the world that percentage of support is even greater! With overtly rigged elections (which most people don't vote in), a repressive police force, and despite corporate media domination... the facade of stability in this nation is cracking. The fascists may be in control of this country but not everyone in it is a fascist (not by a long shot). And people are actively resisting modern American fascism. Well beyond these fixed elections we need to organize every day and every where in an effort to stand up to these warmongers and these environmental villains who are in control and destroying the world. As I pointed out... people are already taking to the streets in the tens-of-thousands (more if you look at 2003-4 and consider simultaneous protests around the world), how many more are with them in spirit and how many more need only the slightest nudge to make that further commitment and join the protest? My suggestion would be come to one or both of the convention protests and stand with the masses in the streets. A number as large as 100,000 is being thrown around in possible attendance of the protest in St. Paul at the RNC. And these people are planning on something very much like a general strike. The truckers unions are planning a convoy protest on the second day of the convention. I see this as a great opportunity to show our power and demand immediate and dramatic change. If we wait wait until we're all starving or imprisoned it will be to late. We need to take action now and support those who already are. by R. A. Louis (12 articles, 13 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 87 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:45:51 PM (0+)
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Obama's rightwar tilt
"People would rather vote for real Republicans than Democrats who act like Republicans." by L.M. Arndt (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 54 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:24:05 PM (0+)
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