Pastor, of the profit driven life or something ,also said he went to hand out one question before the event .He gave Obama the sheet then slips and says Mc Cain wasn't in the building when he handed out the papers. 

The coin toss was days before the event. I would not consider a coin toss in a football game fair if it took place out of view and not right before the kickoff. The right to examine the coin by your opponent in the open field keeps it honest.

If Pastor Ricky tried to throw the election the church's tax exempt status should be reviewed. 

by tjb (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 255 comments [9 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 11:00:04 AM

  (0+)

The fix was in at Saddle Back, but we have the constant daily 'fix' of the mainstream press that is REFUSING to report stories like this one that if the public knew that there was cheating it could change the public perception of McCain and the 'evangalical' right's fairness (lack thereof).

How can there be a free and fair election when one side gets institutional. support from the news media and the other side gets its hands tied behind its back?

 Instead of 'Saddle Back' forum it should have been 'Stab-in-the-Back' Forum.

You can bet this story will NEVER be carried on the mainstream evening or morning news shows.

What a SHAM. I think "Uncle Sam" should be changed to "Uncle Scam".

by JOHN LORENZ (23 articles, 118 quicklinks, 118 diaries, 313 comments [25 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 3:36:33 PM

  (0+)

We were told that Obama went first as a result of a flip of the coin.  How could that be if McCain wasn't even there?  He was in a motorcade!!!

The fix was in from the start. 

by Dennis Kaiser (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 35 diaries, 730 comments [137 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 4:43:10 AM

  (0+)

Does George W. Bush lie?

by JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 11:06:32 AM

  (0+)

Nevermind that McCain may have overheard Obama's answers. He didn't need to hear the answers, since he  already had the questions. So did Obama. If you listen carefully, you'll hear irrefutable evidence that both candidates had advance knowledge of the questions.

Here are two specific examples: 

Obama, when asked about the many millions of orphans available for adoption, said (I'm paraphrasing) "I confess I cheated on that question. I did some research." 

McCain interjected the following (paraphrased) comment: "Are  we going to get back to the appointment of Supreme Court Justices, or should we just move on?". This was before he was asked the question.

You can't "get back" to a question you haven't yet been asked. 

by Deeplip (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 11:26:45 AM

  (0+)

Thank you, deeplip.  I also heard both of those comments by Obama and McCain.  It was obvious from the beginning that this was a setup for McCain.  The questions were shallow and directed toward confirming a Christian fundamentalist point of view. 

As a former elected official, I know how extremely difficult it is to answer a shallow question with any kind of intelligence.  I thought Obama did very well, under the circumstances.

by Shirley Bianchi (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 97 comments) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 12:33:22 PM

  (0+)

What is missing from the analysis that McCain cheated is that unlike Obama, McCain has taken an oath to not lie, cheat or steal. He took that oath in 1954, like all of the rest of us who attended Service Academies did. To suggest that he cheated is to suggest that he violated an oath that all of hold sacred. It may be easy for Obama to cheat, but it is a monumental failure of character for McCain to do so. Suggesting that he did is not only way out of line, it suggests how uninformed those who suggest that he would do such a thing are.

by johne37179 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 12:06:58 PM

  (0+)

McCain may have taken an oath at the Naval Academy, but I doubt very much that he honored it there, and he clearly believes himself to be released from its requirements at this late date. John McCain's entire political career has been a lie to his constituents, as he cultivated a "straight talk" image while bending over backwards for every lobbyist that slithered through his office. The series of lying slanders that he has articulated about Barack Obama alone would be enough for a man of conscience to condemn himself to hell.

McCain was lying when he took that oath!

by John Sanchez Jr. (9 articles, 0 quicklinks, 25 diaries, 1791 comments [148 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 12:19:08 PM

  (0+)

are you suggesting that Mr. Straight Talk was honest with his first wife as he serially cheated on her? That alone is clear evidence of what light regard this faithless liar holds for any vow he's committed to. He also vowed to uphold and defend the Constitution numerous times, but that doesn't seem to hold any more attraction for him as any of the other promises that he has made.

by John Sanchez Jr. (9 articles, 0 quicklinks, 25 diaries, 1791 comments [148 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 12:26:10 PM

  (0+)

You're either kidding, or have not watched TV, read a paper, or used the internet from the date you graduated until today.

McCain has lied so many times his dog doesn't come when he calls it by name.

And the most easily proven - by his own admission - was his cheating on his wife.

Don't you think you might be bringing shame upon the Academy yourself by your words?

by JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 12:42:09 PM

  (0+)

"Some of the richest people I've ever known in my life are the most unhappy." I really have to wonder if was referring to Cindy McCain.

by John Sanchez Jr. (9 articles, 0 quicklinks, 25 diaries, 1791 comments [148 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 12:51:43 PM

  (0+)

It is "uniniformed" to suggest that McCain could cheat? What planet have you been on lately? How about McCain's whole history? From being the "Songbird" commie collaborator in Vietnam, to dumping his first wife when she got in a car accident, to the Keating-5 scandal, to his lying flip-flopping on a host of issues, to his being a revisionist of his own history and ignoring his earlier statements and positions when it suits him to lie for his current campaign (I'll give you a host of examples with documentation if you request them). How can  YOU DARE deny McCain HAS done these things frequently and often? Question your own temerity, not that of those of who know this snake better. We've lived through his cheating for years. Where have you been?

by JOHN LORENZ (23 articles, 118 quicklinks, 118 diaries, 313 comments [25 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 3:42:09 PM

  (0+)

Comment from Ratings:   John McCain should have come out with the truth when confronted by Warren when asked whether he had been secluded in the Cone of Slience. JOHN MCCAIN IS A CHEAT. Anyone watching the program could see that he was way ahead of the questions!! Warren even mentioned that fact to McCain.

by diane vann (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 12:24:10 PM

  (0+)

I was reminded by Mother Jones that regardless of whether he heard Obama's interview (& I believe he did) he clearly lied to "Pastor Rick" when he said that he was trying to hear through the wall. Lying to a man of God in a church. Wow.

by Amy Fried (45 articles, 127 quicklinks, 77 diaries, 247 comments) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 12:34:55 PM

  (0+)

Sir,

I take profound umbrage to  your vile and disgusting smear of Senator Obama. Offer up proof that ,as you imply, he has a character flaw which Mc Cain does not otherwise you owe us and Senator Obama an apology.

" It may be easy for Obama to cheat" 

by tjb (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 255 comments [9 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 12:44:13 PM

  (0+)

Nice try.  It was actually Obama who admitted to cheating, according to Andrew Sullivan:

In his official correspondence to both campaigns, Pastor Rick Warren provided both candidates with information regarding the topic areas to be covered, which Barack Obama acknowledged during the forum when asked about Pastor Warren's idea of an emergency plan for orphans and Obama said, "I cheated a little bit. I actually looked at this idea ahead of time, and I think it is a great idea;"

by Florida Lady (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 11 comments) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 1:51:26 PM

  (0+)

Do you think this was the first time that Obama looked at this problem?  It well could be too that they did a bit of research into the church and their pet projects prior to the forum.  This is not cheating, this is simply doing your homework.

by Judy Swindler (19 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 79 comments) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 2:24:04 PM

  (0+)

It is anybody's guess if McCain "cheated", this time or some other time, but his record seems to be available for anyone to see. But he probably lied: he seems to whenever he opens his smarmy mouth. But the press and the naive masses fawn all over him and no one seems to care. We have allowed politics to become a circus. McCain is old, untrustworthy, mean-spirited and dangerous. I am afraid we are in for enough trouble to make Bush/Cheney look good in comparison.

by Ivan Hentschel (12 articles, 0 quicklinks, 10 diaries, 302 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 1:57:30 PM

  (0+)

Pandering to the Chrisitan evengelicals. Can't imagine the Founders approving of this entire dialogue. Of course it was a set up for Obama. Of course McSame, commie commercial king of Vietnam, knew what to say. He never sounded so rehearsed and being someone who played many roles in plays, I know rehearsed when I hear it..................smooth verbal replies...............calm, collected behavior w/o no need to THINK much. Obama had to do some thinking before answering.........he wasn't "rehearsed". Mac has been getting the green room rehearsal scenario for some time now. The only time he isn't "rehearsed" is those town meetings and such and he clammers for words and stumbles through his tangled thoughts and then puts his foot in his mouth and back tracks quite often, later in the day.

Wow, do I sound perturbed about this whole religious pandering? Absolutely. Read the "separation of church and state" documents/letters written by the Forefathers. This is strictly forbidden...this religious forum bullcrap.

Open mouth, insert foot. Btw, McCain's Az damn in the Grand Canyon broke. Good job monitoring the infrastructure in AZ, Mac.

by shirley reese (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 592 comments [98 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 2:43:15 PM

  (0+)

It followed the same script that's been the story of presidential campaigns for the last few decades.  The Republican ignores the question and delivers insipid but satisfying sound bites, that they can have whatever they want and not have to pay for it.  The Democrat tries to be all things to all people, demoralizing his base while convincing the swing voters only that they have no idea what he thinks.  It's why we're fixin' to lose again.

by Gregg Gordon (26 articles, 47 quicklinks, 15 diaries, 199 comments) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 3:29:17 PM

  (0+)

The possibility that he may have cheated is a very real one. John McCain was too glib and well prepared in his responses to Rick Warren. In fact he appeared too well-rehearsed in my professional opinion. McCain is not a particularly good speaker on any stage. He is clumsy with words and has difficulty articulating more complex issues so he compensates by dumbing down his presentations in a "folksy" style to win followers. Perhaps  even more incredulous was how this mediocre orator was able to colour almost effortlessly, most of his responses with his election propaganda - those tired personal tales - all carefully calculated to evoke emotions. Even when he spoke about his biggest moral failure, the "emotion" was faked with clockwork precision in my view. A man of McCain's age, military discipline and predatory instincts   does not sincerely "emote" in front of millions of people over an issue he already worked through and written about in a book. Even the most experienced debator would had problems  trying to integrate election rhetoric with  a suitable, coherent response to Warren. Yet McCain sailed through that challenge with effortlessly ease. It is very suspicious to me and something which merits further investigation. The pieces are not fitting together at all.

by Fleur (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 29 comments) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 3:27:50 PM

  (0+)

That was my brother's first reaction upon hearing McCain. He said "he heard the questions in advance: he was too quick and prepared with an answer.'

 Now we know my brother's instincts were correct.

by JOHN LORENZ (23 articles, 118 quicklinks, 118 diaries, 313 comments [25 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 3:29:12 PM

  (0+)

Is why is there any need to pander to the Jesus Juicing, willfully ignorant, low information and regressive knuckledraggers to begin with?

Screw this false argument about McCain cheating as it is just another of those same distractions that are pimped by the pocket media while they are providing cover for those picking ALL of OUR pockets.

The idiot demographic has given us 8 years of George W. Bush aka Man of God....

Can't we all just give this superstitious hogwash a rest and get about the business of becoming an enlightened nation?

Just My Thirty Pieces....

EE

by Ed Encho (12 articles, 20 quicklinks, 65 diaries, 438 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 5:43:20 PM

  (0+)

If nothing else, all these comments are a pretty good indication that those making them don't think their guy came off very well.  In desperation, they resort to playground "he cheated" accusations. 

So let's see.  Are we saying that if Obama had seen the questions before-hand he would have instantly blurted out "at conception"?  That he would have instantly said "defeat it"?

McCain didn't really behave or answer questions in a way much different than he always does, and neither did Obama.  McCain has had these same questions a thousand times during this campaign, and so has Obama. The simply reality is that McCain didn’t feel the need -- and perhaps isn't clever enough anyway -- to couch and qualify his answers a dozen different ways, and never has.  Obama did, and always has.  The real problem people are having is that the contrast between the two world-views and life experiences was made so obvious and stark by this particular format, what with the same questions being asked by the same guy within the same hour or so.

I thought Obama answered the questions in a much more thoughtful, in depth manner.  I'm suspecting that someone who's a fan of his in the Rick Warren organization leaked a copy of the questions to him days before-hand.  His answers really reflected that, in that they were so long and detailed. They would have required lots of preparation time.

Of course, I have no evidence for that being the case. 

by Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 10:14:34 PM

  (0+)

Why is it unfair when this happens to a Democrat,  if the tables were turned and McCain went first would there still be an out cry.  I would be more upset at Obama's answer on who he would  look to for advise once he became President and his answer was, his wife, grandmother and Ted Kennedy. Are we really happy with this answer, as Iran turns her ugly head.  I thought we saw the real Obama when his answer was above his pay scale

by don bybee (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 206 comments) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 10:20:19 PM

  (0+)

His comment was so impressing. Especially, his closing comment "Senator McCain, Grow up."

 lol

by Tazza Hwang (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 7 comments) on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 10:36:10 PM

  (0+)

Keith's comment makes very little sense, considering that McCain was only reacting to the media uncritically reciting a childish accusation by his opponent, not to mention the prevailing background bias against him by the media in general. Those accusing others of cheating minus evidence are the ones who need to "grow up".

by Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 3:20:01 AM

  (0+)

When I heard from Olbermann's saying, there was no bias against McCain.

Olbermann's saying was perfectly logical.

It was absoultely logcial.

by Tazza Hwang (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 7 comments) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 10:12:52 AM

  (0+)

I don't know how familiar you are with American news media, Tazza, but the reality is this:  The vast majority, somewhere between 85 and 95%, of the supposedly unbiased just-the-facts-mam news (not opinion, mind you) media personnel in this country are registered Democrats and vote Democrat.  The vast majority of financial donations coming from the news media go to Democrats.

The people who decide what to cover and how, where to place it on their pages or in their broadcast and what take or interpretation to put on it -- are largely Democrats.  It's just the way it is.   The New York Times is of the most liberal and most Democrat dominated news organizations, and they pretty much dictate what the nightly news broadcasts cover as far as stories, and it's been like that forever.

I find it a little refreshing to finally see a candidate calling these guys on their bias and unbalanced coverage, as most simply accept it.  It's a huge advantage the Democrats have enjoyed for years, and when you think about it, it's not really fair.  Imagine if the tables were turned, and 90% of journalists and editors were right-wing Republicans.  Do you really think that Keith Olberman would be silent about it, and accept it when someone told him to "grow up" if he dared complain about it?  No, I don't think he would be silent, and he shouldn't be silent if that were the case.

Think of a team sporting event, where the referees were the fathers of 90% of the players on one team.  You would expect them to be fair and unbiased, and they would probably try to at least maintain that posture, but could you really expect them to not let their love and preference for their own leak through?   Would you really expect that the other team and their fans would be just fine with such a scenario?  Would you tell them to "grow up" if they dared say something?

by Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 12:53:48 PM

  (0+)

of the personnel who supported the democrats. That's why you thought that this game was not fair.

Personnally, I agreed with your saying if your logic was correct.

It seemed to me that your sayng was based on an assumption: Almost all of the media is composed of the personnel who have a preference for the Democratic Party.

However, your assumption could be false one. I do not agree that a television program, such as CNN, is controlled by the higher-ups within CNN who have a preference for the Democratic Party. Whenever I see "Lou Dobbs's Show" on CNN, I recognize him as not liberal person. Also, when I read a NY Times, I could not find any article that seemed to be in favor of the Democratic Party.

In a word, I want to point out that your saying is based on a false assumption. Therefore, I do disagree with your saying.

by Tazza Hwang (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 7 comments) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 5:04:59 PM

  (0+)

McCain particularly asked for the Supreme Court question.   How could he ask for that question if he didn't know it was coming his way.   Plus - McCain is never that lucid.   He pulled up his 4 Supreme Court members with much more lucidity than usual.   

There are so many inaccuracies to this story.  I believe Rick Warren is lying.   He only had 2 men to account for at this event.   How could he NOT have known where McCain was before he went on stage since there were only McCain and Obama involved?    To have made a blanket statement that McCain was securely ensconced in his "cone" is evidence he was outright lying since he had NOT seen McCain beforehand.  

This religion/god crap does not belong in this presidential campaign - or in ANY secular campaign in a secular society.  

by Linda Milazzo (128 articles, 1 quicklinks, 18 diaries, 210 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 4:49:03 AM

  (0+)

The only cone of silence John McCain could have possibly been in would have been him wearing an orange traffic cone on his head during the ride to the forum so he couldn't hear the radio or see a Blackberry.

From today's news it looks like the pastor knew he had not been in the green room but kept quiet, even after McCain made his joke about trying to hear through the walls.

by Judy Swindler (19 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 79 comments) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 10:43:59 AM

  (0+)

No one can be one hundred percent certain that McCain cheated at Saddleback but his uncharacteristic performance  suggest that such  a possibility must be considered. Any responsible and intelligent American - Democrat or Republican - should want to know the truth. This is a man who seeks the highest office in the land. During the period 2009 - 2013  McCain may be at the helm of an America that will be facing serious and unprecented economic and social challenges against the background of a rapidly changing and unravelling world. If such a potential  leader could find himself compromising his much- touted integrity in such a relatively unimportant forum as Saddleback, then what else is he capable of doing to Americans once he hold the reigns of power?  Ask yourself this question before allowing emotions and party politics to cloud your judgment. Both Obama and McCain must be evaluated objectively and critically without the fog of childish emotions.

by Fleur (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 29 comments) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 1:09:27 PM

  (0+)