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October 24, 2008 at 13:58:07

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End Social Security – Republicans

by Mr. Moderate     Page 1 of 1 page(s)

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The campaign for President has exposed the raw truth about Republican economics. The Republicans don’t believe in socialist policies called “transfer payments.”  A “transfer payment” is when government takes money from one set of people and gives that money to another set of people.  The wealth is “transferred” from one group to another. In a recent article about the campaign, the CNN web site had these quotes on this topic:

McCain charged that Obama believes in "redistributing the wealth, not in policies that grow our economy and create jobs and opportunities for all Americans.""Sen. Obama is more concerned with controlling who gets your piece of the pie than he is in growing the pie," McCain said.

Obama explained his tax plan in depth, saying it's better to lower taxes for Americans who make less money so that they could afford to buy from his business. His tax plan would lower taxes for people making less than $250,000 a year."I think that when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody," Obama told Wurzelbacher.McCain and running mate Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin have said that Obama's plan sounds like socialism. Obama shot back Wednesday at a rally in Leesburg, Virginia, telling voters:"Let's be clear about who John McCain is fighting for. He is not fighting for Joe the Plumber, he is fighting for 'Joe the Hedge Fund Manager.' He is fighting for 'Joe the CEO.'"

However, as CNN reported in another article, both sides are tacitly ignoring the building crisis in the Social Security system.  The Social Security budget for 2007 was bigger than the Pentagon budget for 2007 (not counting the costs of the two wars, which Congress has agreed should be “off budget”). Every year that goes by, the Social Security system comes that much closer to being a train-wreck of a crisis. But Social Security has long been known as the “third rail of politics,” so neither side wants to touch it as an issue that it is dealing with openly and loudly.

And of course, the rhetoric by the Republicans about “redistributing the wealth” or “socialism” or “who gets your piece of the pie” all point to one obvious conclusion: the Republicans really want to end Social Security. It seems like they have tacitly agreed to do nothing, and to block anything that even begins to look like a “cure,” so that the system will crash into a brick wall a few years into the future and that crash will give them the excuse they need to end Social Security once and for all. However, they most certainly don’t care to be honest about this goal as it would probably result in the Republican Party reverting to permanent minority party status in Congress.

A few years ago, George W. Bush started a debate over diverting some of the money contributed into the Social Security system into the stock market.  Of course, today we know what would have happened to a large part of that money if that plan had been adopted: it would have been lost, and large quantities of it would have ended up in the pockets of the high executives on Wall Street. We’ve just been watching that happen with other peoples’ money, and we should be thankful that the Bush plan for Social Security never got off the ground.

But of course, the real reason for the Bush proposal was to cause the Social Security system to go into crisis even faster, by depriving the system of some significant part of its revenue stream.  Less revenue coming into the Social Security system would mean that the time when Social Security payments exceeds Social Security income will come all that much sooner.

Over 50 million Americans depend on Social Security payments to one degree or another.  That is about one-sixth of the population of the United States, and that one-sixth tends to vote at a lot higher rate than the other five-sixths of the population, which is exactly how Social Security got to be labeled as “the third rail of politics.”  It seems that a number of politicians were a bit incautious about voicing their proposals to destroy the Social Security system, and they found themselves rapidly voted out of office.

So, the modern Republican mantra never once mentions Social Security.  This allows the Republicans to deny that they intend in any way to change the Social Security system in such a way as to impair the benefit stream of our nation’s current crop of senior citizens. However, as the current campaign rhetoric and the record of past performances by Republicans should make clear, Republicans are philosophically opposed to any form of “transfer payments,” and Social Security represents the largest system of “transfer payments” ever devised.

So, if you should find yourself at a rally for a Republican politician, don’t hesitate to scream out this question: “Hey, X, you are against redistributing wealth, right? So what are you going to do about this socialist security system which is rapidly redistributing my wealth?”  Please report back on whatever answers you receive.

I would like to see as many Republicans as possible admit that their true aim is to eliminate the Social Security system here in the United States.  And I would like to see those admissions get as much publicity as possible.  Then, let the people vote, and we will just see what happens!

 

http://www.mrmoderate.com/

I am an early baby-boomer, growing up in Orange County California during the 1950s and early 1960s. During the 1964 election, I strongly supported Barry Goldwater, even though I was too young to vote (just 17). I still consider myself to be a Goldwater Conservative. After high school, I tried college, but for various reasons, I didn't do well. So, after I was granted a 1-A draft classification, I joined the Navy. Discretion is the better part of valor, and while I was glad to serve my country in the Navy, I didn't care to be a target for some other jerk serving HIS country. I made it to Vietnam a few months after the Tet offensive. After President Ford finally brought our involvement in Vietnam to an end, the Navy decided it didn't really need as many people as it had, and I was encouraged to leave. So, I did, and like many former military veterans, I joined the "military industrial complex." I worked at that for a few years, and then leaped all the way out into private enterprise, starting a series of high-tech companies. But I never hit it big with any of them, and lost my shirt a couple of times along the way. That is the nature of a free market economy: few will succeed and many will fail. I now work for a "Fortune 50" company, still in high-tech of course. But outsourcing means I will never have anything that even resembles job security. My best hope is to somehow manage to keep working until age 70, at which point I will qualify for the maximum amount of Social Security I can ever hope to earn. After that, it is all about where to live to stretch those dollars to the max, as my 401K can't be relied upon to provide anything resembling a retirement income.

 

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6 comments

I am a longtime political activist and current affairs analyist having been a State Director of the California Young Americans for Freedom and Legislative Aide to 2 leading Legislators in California.

I am now in the Inland Empire(of CA NOT the United States!) and daily(when Im not working) - psuedo legal file clerk these days - surf the net for all sides of the debate on US freedom and liberty and soveriegnty.

I have a nationwide political contact list who I do forward...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Chris BieberI am a longtime political activist and current affairs analyist having been a State Director of the California Young Americans for Freedom and Legislative Aide to 2 leading Legislators in California.

I am now in the Inland Empire(of CA NOT the United States!) and daily(when Im not working) - psuedo legal file clerk these days - surf the net for all sides of the debate on US freedom and liberty and soveriegnty.

I have a nationwide political contact list who I do forward...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Why the GOP DOESNT want to get rid of Socialist Security

Because the GOP(and most Americans) have accepted the PREMISE of socialism in that the State exist to MAKE things "fair" and "equitiable" and that the State is the source AND GRANTER of individual rights.

The 99.92% of the GOP(other then Ron Paul, me and a few others REALLY do want to get rid of the SOCIALIST(Social Sec Act almost verbatim from Mussolini's Charter of Labour, the Fabian Socialist Charter, and the SDP platform of 1870) Security system...IN ADDITION TO THE REST OF THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND SOCIALIST FEDGOV that the GOP concedes/condones/AND PROMOTES.

Me Too! GOP candidates AND THEIR VOTING RECORDS prove they do NOT want to stop the socialism....they want to be the ones(the PARTY) running the mostrocity/wielding the club of the State in a "conservative' "Republican" and "cheaper and more efficient" way...

The socialist house of cards(the State as it is and the utterly oblivious and sportsAmericanIdol sotted populace) almost had a card pulled out when Congressman Ron Paul ran for the GOP nomination  and addressed these issues and called for Congress to follow the rules and its duty to OBEY the Constitution and ABOLISH the FedGovs involvement in our States Cities and individual lives and stop the controlled(rigged) election charade of the GOP and the Election process.

But the Pavlovian Skinnerbox mazecrawler Americans rejected it on cue and now the collapse of the country is immanent.

and the masses demand a strong leader to FIX things...

the SYMPTOMS/logical consequences of Socialism.

Notice the GOP and its megalmaniac candidate DOES NOT MENTION GETTING RID OF ANY!!! the Socialist Federal Government at all...only "fixing" and making it "better" and "cheaper"...

A false Hegelian choice......like the election itself

how much longer do we have?????????????????

 

by Chris Bieber (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 48 comments) on Saturday, October 25, 2008 at 12:31:08 PM
 


retired mfg plant maintenance mgr.
vthomretired mfg plant maintenance mgr.

a-b-c--

1. government itself is a socialistic endeavor. Style is the question now.

2. the wealth has already been redistributed by those who accuse you of it.

3. the right wing revolution is accomplished. All that's left to do is obscure the tracks.  Mind your manners or-else!

by vthom (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 47 comments) on Saturday, October 25, 2008 at 1:51:30 PM
 


I am an early baby-boomer, growing up in Orange County California during the 1950s and early 1960s. During the 1964 election, I strongly supported Barry Goldwater, even though I was too young to vote (just 17). I still consider myself to be a Goldwater Conservative.

After high school, I tried college, but for various reasons, I didn't do well. So, after I was granted a 1-A draft classification, I joined the Navy. Discretion is the better part of valor, and while I was glad to serve...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Mr. ModerateI am an early baby-boomer, growing up in Orange County California during the 1950s and early 1960s. During the 1964 election, I strongly supported Barry Goldwater, even though I was too young to vote (just 17). I still consider myself to be a Goldwater Conservative.

After high school, I tried college, but for various reasons, I didn't do well. So, after I was granted a 1-A draft classification, I joined the Navy. Discretion is the better part of valor, and while I was glad to serve...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Fascism is Pro-Business

The NAZI Party in Germany was explicitly socialist until the time when Hitler gained complete control of the German state, after which time no further talk of new socialist programs can be found. Mussolini was a socialist journalist before he flipped over and became extremely pro-business as the head (and inventor) of fascism in Italy. Socialism is never in the interests of business owners, so no pro-business party would ever advocate socialism or socialist programs once they have a firm grasp on political power.

So, while I might agree with you in the short term, that Republicans will never admit to wanting to eliminate the Social Security system and would assert instead that they want to "improve" it, as you suggest, in the long term the Republicans do want to totally eliminate Social Security because of the huge costs to business (nearly 9% of total payrolls once you factor in unemployment compensation, etc.). The practice of the current generation of Republicans is to engage in double-speak about their proposals. Thus, a bill to allow greater air pollution is called the "Clear Skies Initiative" and a bill to allow strip-cutting of trees on federal land is called the "Healthy Forests Act." Accordingly, whenever a Republican speaks of "improving" Social Security, you can bet that the overall goal is to further weaken it until it gets to a point where it can be eliminated entirely (along with the supporting taxes).

You would seem to be advocating a libertarian perspective, which is all well and good except that libertarian philosophy is impractical in any sort of a society more complex or technological than America in the early 1800s. If we wish to have a modern technological society, there needs to be agreed and enforced standards, and the government is the only organization which is properly positioned to be the regulator of technological standards. Think of the role which the Federal Communications Commission plays in ensuring that electronic broadcasts don't interfere with each other. Libertarian philosophy does not allow for such governmental activities, and without those governmental activities, technological devices of all sorts would be far less useful than they actually are today.

As the total quantity of knowledge expands tremendously, people necessarily need to specialize or else they would become incompetant at every kind of knowledge. Libertarian philosophy presumes an equal distribution of knowledge (about market conditions, about technological comparisons between competing products, etc.) so that people can willingly enter into contracts which are not based upon fraud or force. That equal distribution of knowledge can't really take place in a true Libertarian society because each individual lacks equal access to the necessary knowledge as impaired by the various contractual relationships within which they find themselves bound.

The only selling point for libertarian philosophy is that everybody likes to feel that they are "free" (or that they have "liberty"), and so the false goal of complete liberty is held up as a selling point for libertarian philosophy. However, that goal truly is false as it would necessarily deny each member of society access to almost everything which they might desire because virtually any such transaction necessary to acquire any such thing almost necessarily requires the compulsive intrusion onto an area of rights held by other members of society.

Consider the desire for modern electric power. While it is certainly possible for each of us to take responsibility for generating our own electric power, the costs associated with individual generation are actually quite large and beyond the means of all but the most wealthy. Low-cost electric power for the masses requires the ability to force all property owners to give up some part of their property rights in order for society as a whole to obtain the benefits of widely-distributed cheap electric power.  A libertarian society would not allow the compelled yielding of individual rights, and the inability to compel people in that respect would all-but-totally eliminate the ability of large projects to be performed.

So, to my way of thinking, libertarian philosophy, while it would be preferable to fascism, is not as good for the vast bulk of humanity as would be a moderate form of socialism.

by Mr. Moderate (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 15 comments) on Saturday, October 25, 2008 at 1:56:26 PM
 


I am a libertarian activist and writer. I believe in a free market, complete civil liberties and a non-interventionist foreign policy. We do not have anything like this at this time. I am a firece opponent of the Bush administration. Please see my web page.
Alice LillieI am a libertarian activist and writer. I believe in a free market, complete civil liberties and a non-interventionist foreign policy. We do not have anything like this at this time. I am a firece opponent of the Bush administration. Please see my web page.

I WAS FORCED INTO THE SYSTEM!!!

When I was a 22 year old recent college grad, and a radical libertarian, I started applying for work.

I learned right away that I had absolutely no choice about Social Security.

The only alternatives were to either get married and be a housewife (I have no philosophical problems with that, it is just not what I am cut out for) or else go into a line of work (such as drug dealing or prostitution) that would sacrifice much dearer principles.

(I have no respect at all for victimless crime laws such as laws against these jobs, but I do have major issues about the jobs.)

I was of course admonished by some (who obviously don't think past the ends of their noses) that Social Security was "for my own good" and someday I'd "thank" the government for it.

That made me spit thumbtacks then and it does now.

That money could have served me much better in a low yield savings account!!!

So, my comment to the goverment is:

THANKS FOR NUTTIN' as&(*#%s!!! You ***HARMED*** me "for my own good!!!" I am worse off.

But, I am getting something back now, true, but I AM REFUSING TO USE IT ON MYSELF! For the sole purpose of defiance against being harmed for my own good I am contributing it to an organization that advocates radical libertarian principles.

The Social Security system must be ended. I think that making it voluntary for people currently working now, and closing it to people who enter the work force starting, say, 2010, is the way to phase it out over time.

Persons who are collecting it now, especially low income elderly, should go on collecting as before, as you cannot simply turn it off like a water faucet on these people.

It needs to go with the major tax cuts I have been advocating and severe cuts in government spending.

But eventually it needs to end, along with other nanny-state big brother programs. People need to be independent.

See my blog at http://www.alicelillieandher.blogspot.com

by Alice Lillie (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 60 comments) on Saturday, October 25, 2008 at 1:54:06 PM
 


I am an early baby-boomer, growing up in Orange County California during the 1950s and early 1960s. During the 1964 election, I strongly supported Barry Goldwater, even though I was too young to vote (just 17). I still consider myself to be a Goldwater Conservative.

After high school, I tried college, but for various reasons, I didn't do well. So, after I was granted a 1-A draft classification, I joined the Navy. Discretion is the better part of valor, and while I was glad to serve...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Mr. ModerateI am an early baby-boomer, growing up in Orange County California during the 1950s and early 1960s. During the 1964 election, I strongly supported Barry Goldwater, even though I was too young to vote (just 17). I still consider myself to be a Goldwater Conservative.

After high school, I tried college, but for various reasons, I didn't do well. So, after I was granted a 1-A draft classification, I joined the Navy. Discretion is the better part of valor, and while I was glad to serve...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Self-Contradictory!

Alice, your thinking seems really confused. You advocate not turning off payments to "low income elderly" now, but you turn right around and advocate turning off those same payments for the low income elderly of the future who are just unlucky enough to enter the work force after some arbitrary date (i.e., 2010). You can't have it both ways and be viewed as presenting a logical argument. Either low income elderly are to be left with whatever they have or low income elderly are to receive payments to ensure that they have some minimal standard of living. The latter is what we have had since the 1930s. The former is what we had before the 1930s. We have tried both in this country. Before the 1930s you can find elderly people living with their kids. Somebody needs to support them. If not the government, then their own kids will have to do it, as they had to before the 1930s.

It all boils down to just who is getting forced to pay for any non-productive members of society and just what sort of a minimal standard of living all people ought to have in order to prevent pressure building up in favor of violent revolution (such as happened to cause the French Revolution of 1789). Social Security is designed with both these ideas in mind.

by Mr. Moderate (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 15 comments) on Saturday, October 25, 2008 at 2:05:42 PM
 


I am an early baby-boomer, growing up in Orange County California during the 1950s and early 1960s. During the 1964 election, I strongly supported Barry Goldwater, even though I was too young to vote (just 17). I still consider myself to be a Goldwater Conservative.

After high school, I tried college, but for various reasons, I didn't do well. So, after I was granted a 1-A draft classification, I joined the Navy. Discretion is the better part of valor, and while I was glad to serve...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Mr. ModerateI am an early baby-boomer, growing up in Orange County California during the 1950s and early 1960s. During the 1964 election, I strongly supported Barry Goldwater, even though I was too young to vote (just 17). I still consider myself to be a Goldwater Conservative.

After high school, I tried college, but for various reasons, I didn't do well. So, after I was granted a 1-A draft classification, I joined the Navy. Discretion is the better part of valor, and while I was glad to serve...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Wrong Occupation!

Actually, you did have a choice about joining the Social Security system. Certain jobs are exempt, although the list of exempt jobs has narrowed substantially since I entered the work force back in the 1960s. For instance, it used to be that federal government employees were exempt from Social Security, but then they were forced into the Social Security system. However, still to this day, religious ministers have the option of claiming exemption from Social Security taxes. If you wanted to avoid paying Social Security taxes, you just failed to pick an occupation where that was permitted.

by Mr. Moderate (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 15 comments) on Saturday, October 25, 2008 at 2:11:16 PM
 

 

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