Replacing Bush isn't repudiating him

I for one foreigner don't trust Obama because of his vote on the FISA immunity matter. 

Obama might get some uncritical fans - the Pope gets fans.  The Dali Lama gets fans. 

But unless Bush is repudiated and the use of torture and aggressive invasion as Presidential prerogatives is repudiated then no American President can be trusted.  And worse than that no American Congress or the word of Americans on treaties in general will be able to be trusted going forward.   

I will go further than that Rob and accept the consequences of doing so including being placed on a terrorist watchlist or charged with crimes like inciting terrorism.

If Bush is not repudiated then terrorism against Americans should be on the  table as a moral option for all human beings. 

The reason that that is so, is because without the rule of law, the highest priority becomes not mere survival and acquiescence to injustice and tyranny but the establishing of the rule of law. 

At the moment Americans seem to be getting ready to create a new exception for themselves whereby even torture and aggressive invasion are okay as long as it is an American President that gives the order. At the moment it looks like Democrats and Republicans are going to unite amongst themselves to give themselves a right to do to the rest of the world what they have promised the rest of the world that they join with it in not doing.  

But that is NOT Okay. Replacing Bush with Obama is not enough. That may be America's rationalisation for itself but it isn't a solution and it isn't justice for torture and for an illegal invasion. 

By not impeaching Bush, Americans will have accepted a degree of corruption of their political system that will make future decisions by that system suspect.  That sort of corruption doesn't stop - it increases, because more people give up on the rule of law, in the face of the obvious failure of the rule of law.   

I for one will never trust the United States if Bush is not impeached and I will hope for the destruction of the United States and for the disunion and dissassembly of the United States as a criminal conspiracy against the rest of humankind.  I for one will want the corruption removed.

It is possible to find room in the world for a great deal of differences in opinion and in beliefs but it is not possible to have confidence in one set of laws and to simultaneously have Americans be allowed to break those laws just because they are Americans. That is impossible.  Foreigners can't pull off that sort of doublethink as though their own interests and the interests of the people they care about don't matter.

Perhaps I am more exceptional that I know. Perhaps many people in the world are as stupid and as fickle and as unable to remember as Americans clearly hope they are, but it only takes a small minority to continue the fight and whilst American injustice stand outs like a beacon it is not necessary for those who would wish to fight against that injustice to have any contact with each other at all.  

by Brett Paatsch (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 22 diaries, 1041 comments) on Saturday, July 19, 2008 at 12:31:10 AM
 

non-US Citizens are voting

It's not as if non-US Citizens have no voice at all. As Rob points out, one way of lending Obama support is to appear in Berlin in person, on thursday, 24 July 2008 (jeans + "I luv Obama" T-shirt preferred apparal). But there's more...

http://www.voteforpresident.org/ 

This is only the first such website I found while looking for one. Perhaps more exist.

About Vote for President

Voteforpresident.org is an initiative of individuals interested in world affairs and the potential of the internet as a polling tool. This website is neutral regarding the candidates.

Double voting is prevented by using the unique combination of IP address and a cookie. Extra votes can be cast but will not be counted. Advanced techniques have been deployed to prevent votes that are automatically generated.

One aspect about all this does make me sad. People are too far from realizing how little it matters which man will become pResident of the USA. Many are so thirsty for change, they resort to believing and hoping Obama can bring about major changes. Make that MAJOR CHANGES. Not just another face, not just another charisma but a new course. As you can see, the circus is a world-wide circus. People all over the world are falling for it.

On Berlin and Obama's upcoming visit, many here in Germany are asking one very good question and adding a couple of strong messages to it ;

a) if we let Obama speak publicly, should we also allow the other guy to do so ?

b) why can't he wait until he is pResident ?  

c) Germany (Europe) is not a political stage for US elections / keep them out  until the election is over.

by Tony Forest (7 articles, 18 quicklinks, 166 diaries, 1429 comments) on Saturday, July 19, 2008 at 3:15:05 AM
 

"Coming Soon; The Non-US Citizen Vote for Obama" - Rob Kall

(1). The expected crowds at Obama appearances outside the US will be in direct ratio to the level of anger at, despise of and desire to expose the disastrous foreign policy of the US during the two terms of Dubya!   (2). Obviously, there will be no crowds in Baghdad and Kabul but the "absent" crowds will still be able to express their opinion by refraining to greet him with road side incendiaries or suicide attacks. (3). Although Fox News and other Neo-con & AIPAC owned Media will go blank on live coverage, they will go on a free for all Spinning Spree. (4). When it's all over Obama will return quite 'changed', so much so that come November one would fail to differentiate him from MacCain. (5). Much to do about nothing! 

by syed mahdi (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 126 comments) on Saturday, July 19, 2008 at 6:14:22 AM
 

Obama in Europe

Crown Prince Franz Ferdinand comes to mind

by sliphoch (0 articles, 1 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 52 comments) on Saturday, July 19, 2008 at 7:04:34 AM
 

Most of the people of the world understand,...

as so many in the United States do, that Obama may represent the last opportunity for a return of the United States to its former place among nations. The neocon regimes since 1980 have taken us far from that place as a moral leader and fair arbitrator on the world stage. The last time we had such a reputation was during the Clinton administration, and the people of the world responded with their admiration of Bill Clinton.

Obama's work is cut out for him among the governments of the world. Those leaders who can ill afford to trust, must be shown a reason to trust, and it will take more than this trip to accomplish that objective. It will be particularly difficult for Obama among those governments that aspire to the neocon, or as it is called in Europe, the neo-liberal model.

I am confident, however, that any government that places a high value on peace and prosperity will ultimately accept Obama as the only sensible option to head a government that they can reasonably work with.

As for what McCain's camp thinks or says in this matter, it is becoming more and more immaterial. McCain is increasingly marginalizing himself, and is fast approaching the status of laughingstock. His reversals of position, his bald faced lies and the continuing gaffes in his public pronouncements are becoming transparent to all but the hypnotized faithful and, possibly, the corporate media.

by John Sanchez Jr. (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 1266 comments) on Saturday, July 19, 2008 at 8:16:50 AM
 

Foreign 'distaste' for Bush/McCain/Cheney

American's do not realize the damage of the last two president's impact on most foreign countries.  All of us realize the neglect, arrogance, unworthyness of Presidents Bush and Clinton.  McCain will be no different.  Obama has the integrity, moral compass and honesty, to do what America needs to do and regain any type of reconciliation with World Leaders in an intelligent, protective and compassionate way.

 Bill and Hillary Clinton are Repub's in Democrat clothing,  Bush's are their intimate friends.  They secured crime's, these two families committed that no american media will cover.....and then create a charitable foundation in the name of aids.  This was an early crime, overlooked by america.  We don't forget after thousands of our people have died and still dying.

 That, is only one part of the story, in thier early years.  nicaragua, columbia is another one.  Have they no shame.  Vietnam, China....when will it end?  When Obama is elected.  We know him better than the American people.  We do have a say America!!  How do you want to vote?  How do you want cooperation with foreign countries?  How much do you want peace and stability America? 

When Bush entered Iraq, a soverign country, he lost all credibility.  So did McCain.  McCain is a dangerous, arrogant, haughty man.  If he somehow wins this election, I fear America will no longer be a World Stage member.....she is parishing.  North American Free Trade Agreement is not the only one out their folks.  The World does quite well without you....so you must realize change, real change, is your only hope.

by mare (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 5 comments) on Saturday, July 19, 2008 at 1:52:38 PM
 

The sheeple will get the end result they deserve

It doesn’t matter who is elected president, nothing will change. Both candidates are going to maintain the status quo because to do otherwise would be tantamount to committing political suicide. The president and congress have forgotten that they are servants of the people and are bound to represent the will of the people. They consider themselves the lords of the land and do as they wish.

The only candidate with the intestinal fortitude to be an agent of change was Ron Paul and we all know what the main stream media did to him. The typical American citizen is illiterate regarding politics simply because they don’t bother to read and perform even the most rudimentary research. This allows them to be easily manipulated by the corporate media spin doctors. If the information doesn’t come in an easily digested sound bite then it doesn’t get heard. Just listen to what is discussed in your office when people have a few minutes of down time to chat. They invariably discuss nothing more than reality TV or sports. Indeed if a subject with any relevance is introduced the conversation will in all likelihood end. Most corporations discourage the practice of meaningful discourse because their employees would start to question corporate policy and decisions.

The federal government is on of the worst offenders in this area; ever hear of the Hatch Act? The government wants us all to be mindless because it makes us easier to control. The sheeple that the American flock has devolved into need to awaken while there is still time to redeem this country and put it back on track. Only this will save us from the coming disasters.

Even if Obama’s reputation and regard is positive in Europe is positive it won’t matter. There was huge support in Europe for Ron Paul. They don’t vote in this country and frankly the average American has the same disdain for Europeans as the Europeans have for Americans.

In the end it won’t matter there is truly only one party; the Republicrats and their goal is the same as all megalomaniacs; they want to rule the world. The sheeple will get the end result they deserve ineffectual government, further degradation of our money, and endless war to further to goals of corrupt politicians.

by Chuck Hobbs (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments) on Saturday, July 19, 2008 at 4:51:02 PM
 

Dispelling Wingnut Lie, No. 1001

I'm sure large, adoring crowds will greet Obama in Europe. It'll be a far cry from the hostility that Bush has always faced there. In fact, Bush has never really seen first-hand what ordinary Europeans think of him....protesters are always removed to a distant locale when he makes an appearance. I recall reading years ago about how he visited a town in Germany in which virtually the whole population had been evacuated, to spare him the sight of protesters----reportedly the town looked like a ghost town.

Anyway, when Obama is greeted by adoring crowds, I hope that this will dispel Right-Wing Lie, No. 1001. That is: that even before Bush came along, that Europeans hated and feared America. I hear this lie repeated in the Right-Wing media all the time. That's the wingnuts' way of explaining why their hero Bush always faces hostility from overseas crowds. They claim it's basically always been this way for any U.S. president. By repeating lie over and over, I guess they think this makes it true (and it might as well BE true in the bizarre Right-Wing alternative universe).

by Marc McDonald (51 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 10 comments) on Saturday, July 19, 2008 at 7:12:58 PM
 

Mainz

that "town" in Germany is Mainz.

by Tony Forest (7 articles, 18 quicklinks, 166 diaries, 1429 comments) on Sunday, July 20, 2008 at 2:28:46 AM