vegetarians save the world

If people really cared about the oil, the poor and hungry, the environment for generations to come, we would be  vegans.  It is a moral and ethical issue churches should be teaching.

I recently read that China (who is adopting the disease ridden Western diet) will not be serving dog meat at the Olympics in respect for their tourists.  They would do well not to serve any meat to show the world that they will begin to respect human life and animal life. 

Jan

by Jan Fredericks (0 articles, 1 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 9 comments) on Sunday, July 13, 2008 at 12:33:28 PM
 

Why lesson your meat intake

I really don't know what more we can say to the world at large re the terrible consequences of our meat-guzzling lifestyles.  Cattle raising produces greenhouse gases; too much meat in the diet can be harmful to our health; meat production uses great quantities of our precious water and grain supplies and rain forests are sometimes leveled for grazing.  Then there is the cruelty involved to the animals.   Isn't it sad-- that despite all these reasons to either eat less meat, become vegetarian or vegan, many still can't get past their voracious taste for meat.  How lucky are we Jan and others who are more than satisfied with vegan foods which are not only delicious and wholesome, but are cruelty-free as well.   

by Suzana Megles (30 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 104 comments) on Monday, July 14, 2008 at 8:31:33 AM
 

um

the last time i received something from the heifer folks, most of those animals were being used for diary, eggs, as well as sheep and stuff that would provide wool.  when people live in places where sometimes crops are not as diverse, or don' t have the lovely supermarket where they can just pick up a pack of tofu, there's animals.

i've got nothing against vegetarians, but this charity group is simply not the same as factory farming of cows.  i don't think you could farm animals like that in these impoverished areas--when those types of places do that, it's not even to eat, it's to sell for profit, so they can dig themselves out of that miserable poverty--after all, what else do they have, if not their land to exploit until it won't sustain any agriculture at all?

anyways, i don't think the heifer program will lead to that sort of nastiness.  i'm an onimvore myself, but just as i don't drive an suv cuz i don't need it, we don't eat a lot of meat either, esp beef.  simply reducing the amount of meat a family eats would cut down on these problems, as well as put the agriculture industry back into a proper balance...not to mention, it's simply healthier.

by kenshin (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 19 comments) on Monday, July 14, 2008 at 8:29:08 PM
 

um

I'm sorry but I think you're missing the bigger part of the picture.  Anytime live animals are involved in transportation, they are caged and cramped and many probably will die en route.  Can you picture how that would feel if we were that living animal?  You also don't address what will happen if  these poor people will decide animal husbandry is profitable and they will want to raise more and more for food.  Yes, I've seen happy children with calves in their brochures.  But these calves will grow up and be exploited.  If only animal husbandry was kind and benevolent, I would not object.  But that doesn't seem to be the case --certainly not in countries where meat eating is a very important way of life.  I wish that you would visit animal factory farms in the US.  I wish that you would visit slaughterhouses in the US where sometimes cows go through the slaughter line alive having their legs cut off and their skin ripped off while alive.   I find it so sad that people who defend animal husbandry probably know very little about it.  They only see the neatly wrapped celephane packages of animal flesh in the grocery stores.  Again, I and people like me would not object to our voracious appetite for meat  but for the sad fact that most of these animals suffered a great deal to get to this stage.  One day I hope we will be a gentler people and like the Indians will only kill an animal for sustenance--not gastronomical pleasure.  If you want to be part of that gentler people, I would recommend reading "Every Creature a Word of God" by Annika Spalde & Pelle Strindlund.  I am not surprised that Sweden has produced this lovely Lutheran couple who view animals so differently than most of us.  

I hope people like me are wrong and you are right but I view Heifer International as a profit- making business more than a charity.   I also  envision cruelty to animals in this scenario and further down the road more global warming from the raising of animals. 

by Suzana Megles (30 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 104 comments) on Monday, July 14, 2008 at 11:39:19 PM
 

I know I should give facts to back this up...

but it's very late, so i just have to say the level of analysis on this thread is pitiful.  Heifer International is making a real difference out there in helping small communities make baby-steps towards actually supporting themselves, and most of the animals they bring to people are already to some degree commonly used in that region.  It's about giving people a leg up and insisting they share that support instead of hoarding any profits ie The American Way.  Nowhere in this scenario is there mass transporting of animals across continents, disregard for the health of animals, or a push for areas to change their diets towards increased meat-eating. 

Sorry to insult any delicate sensitivities but most of the world has some degree of meat in their diet.  Diets differ primarily by climate and culture, NOT by degree of their love of animals.

More importantly, given the current CRISIS in global food economy -- where currently people in Haiti eat cookies made of fat and mud, and people in India spend all day harvesting/packing rice for export but have no rice for their own family to eat -- to zero in on one aspect of the world food situation without addressing its relationship to this current global crisis is typical middle-class PETA-style "Animals Are Just Better Than Humans" sillyness.

S.F.W.M., please...

by Mars Caulton (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 82 comments) on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 1:35:20 AM
 

i know I should....

Yes indeed -you should give facts.  I have and you choose to ignore them and call them pitiful.  The same of course can be said for your unsubstantiated rationale.  I will never be sorry that I care about animals who are terribly mistreated and abused because people are basically so uncaring.  But - forget for the moment that I care about animal suffering. There is absolutely no excuse for the rich countries of the world for using our precious limited resources of water, grain, and oil in the production of meat to satisfy our palate. And, obviously you don't feel that raising animals is detrimental in producing green house gases as I do.  I'll give you concern for the poor and hungry wherever they are-- but I too care for them.  

I  believe in prayer to help cure the ills of the world and am one of the "sheep" who goes to church every day.  You made me realize that I haven't prayed nearly enough for the starving of the world.  Hopefully, I will improve in that department, but I will also pray that animals be used less and less to address hunger here and in the Third World.  Thanx for reminding me of my lack.  We just differ on how to address the problem of world hunger.  Animal husbandry for me is an abomination in this country and in most parts of the world. I can't believe that using Heifer International is the right tool to lesson hunger.  There are credible people behind me who you choose to ignore.  Did you REALLY read the highlighted links?   

by Suzana Megles (30 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 104 comments) on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 6:11:48 AM
 

Sermon

Suzana -- thank you for your interesting, to-the-point comments. This world is being destroyed one piece at a time-- the area where I live has lost so many trees and native plants already and the air quality at times almost  feels poisonous.

 There are times I cannot sleep at night when I realize what sentient beings are going thru-- the innocent animals and the humans. When people ask me why I am so dedicated to the animals, I tell them I resonate with them and perhaps it is my calling to minister to them. Of course I pray for humans who suffer too -- but I understand very well what an innocent being, an animal, must feel when it is being brutalized or abused -- as an innocent little child I suffered abuse and brutality myself. My screams were eventually heard... The animals-- sometimes never.

Keep praying.

 I wrote a Sermon For The Animals many years ago:

 http://bronxace.homestead.com/Sermon2.html

 and every year just before October, I send copies of it to local churches with the suggestion that they use it as a sermon, in whole or in part on St Francis' Day (although it CAN be used any time of the year)

 Thanks for all you are doing!!!

Ace

by Azar Attura (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments) on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 2:55:25 PM
 

sermon

Thank you Azar.  I appreciate your kind words.  I asked others who I thought felt as I to comment, but sadly only one did so far, and so the caring words of a stranger are even more appreciated.  God bless you.  We share compassionate souls. 

by Suzana Megles (30 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 104 comments) on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 3:03:29 PM
 

"PETA Sillyness"

How hard is it to disagree without ridiculing?

by Azar Attura (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments) on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 2:47:31 PM
 

Enforcing Western views

You don't seem to be aware that many Third World people have already very restricted diets, both in quantity and in diversity; for instance, populations of nomadic sheperds in parts of Africa have--obviously by necessity not by choice--diets based essentially on animal products.  The Tuaregs' diet  is based on millet, milk, dates and meat--cut down the meat and milk, and these people will starve.

being vegan is fine in the US, where you have the luxury of access to a wide variety of non animal foods that allow for a balanced and abundant diet, but it's not the case in many parts of the world.

Not only you are enforcing your Western views on non Western cultures--some would say telling natives what to do like during colonial times--but you are denying  these people access to a decent diet in the name of animal rights.

And, by doing so, you are telling these people that,  for American animal rightists, their lives have less value   than sheeps' or goats'.

Frankly, and based on my experience in Third World countries, I don't think your (well meaning) ideas are going to be well received if presented like that.

Generally speaking, you are not going to gain support from humans by telling them that you value animal lives over human lives, and even less by trying to convince people who hardly get enough to eat to cut down on their already limited food choices to please spoiled American  idealists.

I used to be favorable to animal rights, and am--almost--a vegetarian myself but this type of ignorance and insensivity to human problems from animal rightists turned me off completely.

by francine (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 299 comments) on Thursday, July 17, 2008 at 8:31:10 AM
 

enforcing...

Francine - Merritt Clifton's article is with my other submissions.  I won't have to write to your particular concerns if you will take the time to read his very scholarly article.  He knows his stuff.  He is editor of Animal People which you can find on the internet though I feel you are not really interested in animals all that much. 

by Suzana Megles (30 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 104 comments) on Thursday, July 17, 2008 at 9:50:24 AM
 

enforcing....

At 77 I am well aware that the people of these countries are suffering and I AM BY NO MEANS TRYING TO ENFORCE MY DIET ON THEM. I will try to address all your statements after I write about the 2 million cats and dogs who are being skinned alive in China. How many people really care?
Do you? You don't seem to care about the exploitation of farm animals by Heifer International. Truly if you can prove me and others wrong who have this belief, I will be the first to apologize.

As for my article, please ignore my thoughts and read CAREFULLY THE HIGHLIGHTED ONES which are not mine. And also I was able to get Merritt Clifton's GLOBAL VIEWS on the foolishness of sending animals to the African countries. Please read his educated and knowledgeable views on this subject today so that you won't miss it. And please don't paint me as an uncaring individual who places animals before humans. This idea of who is first and second is ridiculous. The animals and we have both come from the creative hand of God. Both deserve compassion and caring. I submit that the animals get short shrift from many, many people.

For 30 years I have been receiving material re how badly we treat our fellow living creatures in research, CAFO's and we even mistreat and abuse our pets. If you've never gone to Petabuse.com - you will be shocked at all the cruelty we perpetrate on our innocent defenseless pets. A chihuahua was baked in a microwave by two horrible young men when they broke into his home. I said to a very loving Catholic who took me on at one of the internet sites, I believe that we Christians are guilty of most of the abuse in this country unless I am wrong about the religious content of America. If there is cruelty here -then Christians are to blame. She couldn't fault me on that observation. I told her that I didn't believe that the majority of Christians are concerned about animal suffering. I thank God every day that I am and I will never apologize to anyone for my concerns.

by Suzana Megles (30 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 104 comments) on Thursday, July 17, 2008 at 9:08:46 AM
 

Ms.Megles

You are certainly well meaning, and I certainly do not wish to offend a well meaning lady of 77.

I absolutely hate animal suffering--I have done what I could during my life to prevent it--and frankly, I am repelled by the Chinese habit of eating dogs. But how do you tell people they are not to eat animal foods that are the staples of their traditional diets, and without which they'd starve?

Wild animals, or animals that do not cost much to raise, like free range chickens, are also a free or cheap source of food for people of modest means; in a number of African countries, just about everybody in the countryside   has chickens in their backyards. In some countries, farmers raise also rabbits, because you can feed them essentially on grass and leftover veggies, it costs nearly nothing--and they proliferate like ... rabbits. And let's be honest, both these meats are also very good tasting.

And in muslim countries, eating meat is intricately linked to religion: during the celebration of the Aid el Khebir, Muslims traditionnally sacrifice a lamb/sheep--not in a painless way unfortunately, in fact they bleed it after slitting its throat-- they cook the meat and and share it with other faithfulls during a meal. It's a survival of the animal sacrifices of yore, but it's a tradition you won't be able to stop just by telling these people that animal rights take precedence over their beliefs and appetites. Not only they would think you are a nut, but from what I heard, these views are downright sacrilegious to them.

This is just to convey the idea that doing away with meat everywhere is not that simple--in many Third World countries, it's just too costly or just impossible to do, at least as long as people there do not have cheaper or wider food choices. 

My point was: reallistically, you cannot convince people to starve just to comply with your--mostly--Western ideas. It's not too complicated to be a vegan in the US. But the fact we have this luxury in our country should not lead us to think we have the right to preach veganism to people who do not have our wide and cheap food options. People in these countries will not accept the valid notion of animal rights if these rights are seen as having harmful consequences for them.

by francine (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 299 comments) on Thursday, July 17, 2008 at 12:24:06 PM
 

ms. megles

Francine, Francine.  I am not feeble at 77 and I haven't read your entire comment, but I am NOT trying to stop people from eating meat.  I am trying to awaken us to all the cruelty that surrounds it.  Of course I'm not a one woman show.  There are thankfully many more people out there just like me.

I've seen pictures of dogs in Korea being hung slowly and beaten as well to make the meat more "tender."  Where there is no other food available I can understand the eating of meat - but I cannot understand the cruelty that often goes with it.  I think people like me will do a whole lot more to make this earth a better place for the animals.  You are just stating status quo.  Sorry you don't get my vote for compassion. 

by Suzana Megles (30 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 104 comments) on Thursday, July 17, 2008 at 1:22:43 PM
 

I can support you on that

The priority should be to let people eat meat, if it's one of the few foods that are easily available in their area, but to try to educate them to slaughter animals as painlessly as possible; this is not easy either but that would be a beginning.

In developping countries, life is very hard for most people, they die young, kids are still beaten if they are unruly, women are treated harshly etc. So they tend to treat animals as harshly as they are treated.

As a result, the suffering of animals is not a concern, they have their own suffering to deal with, so they just don't see it and don't care.

Plus there is the fact that in Muslim countries, the slaughtering of animals must be ''hallal''--that is, done by people appointed by imams, and who are trained to kill animals according to specific religious procedures. This hallal way of slaughtering animals is, as I said, far from being painless; it's done by slitting the throat of the animal and bleeding it to death. I know that in France, Brigitte Bardot, the ex sex symbol of the 60s,  has launched a war against these practices, to no avail--no politician wants to get Muslim voters angry by questioning their religious customs--and animals don't vote.

by francine (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 299 comments) on Thursday, July 17, 2008 at 3:54:34 PM
 

i can support...

I'm glad we found some common ground.  Thanx.  As for Bridgette - God bless her.  She has planted a seed.  Not only are the Muslims cruel to their animals but their treatment of women is abominable.  Hopefully, like that young Muslim woman in Holland who exposed the cruelty of Muslims, and of course is now in danger of being killed, that more and more will follow her and one day change will come. 

 Before I forget again, did you read Merritt Clifton's report on the Global views re Heifer International?  It's now on my article site since I got his permission to print his very comprehensive and thorough article. 

by Suzana Megles (30 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 104 comments) on Thursday, July 17, 2008 at 4:27:49 PM
 

Not yet

but I will try read it over the we. Thanks for suggesting this reading.

by francine (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 299 comments) on Saturday, July 19, 2008 at 3:18:07 AM