That our election process if broken, flawed, corrupt, take your pick, should have been as evident as the nose on one's face after the 2000 election, if not before, and the fact that there wasn't a Manhattan type project to fix it before the next election should have made it even plainer that those in power don't want it fixed.

We live in a country that is about to pay dearly for it's folly and fixing our election process would be a huge step in the right direction. My fear is that it's too late and we don't have enough time, certainly not before this next election. And I can't help but feel that given the speed in which our fall is coming we may never have another chance.

No matter what happens we're going to experience another world-wide depression, and unlike that last Great Depression, this one will spawn disasters that weren't available to us the last time. The wars coming from this coming collapse will stand a good chance of ending life as we have known it, or indeed end it all together. Voting may be important, but when this calamity hits finding shelter and something to eat might take president.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:17:05 AM

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I really think it's way past the edit for this subject. We stand more on grounds to have a civil war here, and I would be astutely shocked if it doesn't happen. What with all the military overseas, it would be a good time to employ "Out with the old, in with the new". It happened before, it can and probably will, happen again.

by Elliott Van Reamer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 9:42:06 PM

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The Rethuglicans were brilliant and the timid and generally docile Democrats were complicit.  The "Manhattan Project" was actual the HAVA, and the plan was not to "solve" the problems of 2000, but to solidify and greatly enhance their control of elections to steal EVEN MORE VOTES in 2004 and beyond.

And it worked like a charm.

And will work EVEN BETTER in 2008.

by Charlie L (2 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 747 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 14, 2008 at 9:08:05 AM

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If you enjoyed Dorothy Fadiman's film, you'll love "FREE FOR ALL!" by John Wellington Ennis.  He uses a comedic and entertaining approach to daunting information.  There's also hope at the end of the tunnel.  Check it out at www.freeforall.tv

It's streaming for free! 

by Heather B (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments) on Friday, Aug 15, 2008 at 4:02:20 AM

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My fear is that the movie makers of " the movement" have not educated themselves regarding solution to the election system crisis.  Though clicking one's heels together and praying for a return to the days preceding computers might be good strategy to the lesser informed, those in- the- know acknowledge the necessity of paper ballots, then move forward to attack the computers.   Looking for a smoking gun might be fun quasi police work, but to expedite solution we must harrass the officials into blockading proprietary systems, and towards only accepting open source when utililizing computerization.   DF"s film, like the rest of her tribe's, is missing the essence of reform. To fail to acknowledge the open source code/ paper ballot solution plays into the hand of Microsoft and raises many questions regarding motivation-  Brent Turner 

by Brent Turner (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 94 comments) on Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 10:09:52 AM

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Why is it we always hear of the flawed, corrupt voting systems immediately prior to an election?  It seems that when the voices are heard it is too late to do anything about it in the upcoming election.  Therefore, maybe the motive is to actually discourage people from voting.

Now I am fully in agreement that something has to be done with the system in order to restore confidence in the system, thus bringing out more people to vote, plus we need to have the people representing us who we actually want.  

I have come across a system I feel gives us everything a sound system gives us.  It verifies, audits, and verifies again.  It provides a written receipt to the voter. It goes something like this - the individual votes on a computer and three similar ballots are printed out.  The voter gives the original ballot to the volunteer at the poling station, plus one of the remaining ballots.  The original is placed in the official ballot box and the second copy is placed in the secondary box. The voter saves the third ballot for their records. When the polls close the official box is counted electronically.  Upon completion of this count the secondary box is counted. If the two do not agree, an immediate handcount is conducted.  The day after the voting day the voter can go online to confirm their vote was counted as they intended. This online display will reveal the entire count of that precinct, however each voter's identity is concealed through a coding system.

This is a rough explanation of the system, you can view it at http://www.seeVote.com 

by Dennis Kaiser (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 35 diaries, 730 comments [137 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 11:37:18 AM

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i want to say that i, personally, have been writing on this topic or almost four years.  as have many of my colleagues.  it is misleading to imply that someone in the election integrity movement is trying to keep the voting down.  on the contrary.

but it is ridiculous that the press has not covered this issue in a meaningful way.  in fact, when they do cover it, they often slant it enough as to be of no value. 

in my opinion, criticism should be directed at the press (as well as the deceptive voting machine vendors and their shills) and the politicians and election officials who either refuse to get it or don't mind that the system has been corrupted.  it is hard to conclude otherwise.

by Joan Brunwasser (206 articles, 3757 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 751 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 11:45:22 AM

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Comment from Ratings:   Your review was great, thanks for the reminder, I hope I can see this at the Laemmle here in LA next week ... I'm especially encouraged that the movie ends on a upbeat note to encourage people to positive action, instead of leaving the viewer in a disempowered sniveling heap upon the floor. There's always hope. Thanks!

by Meryl Ann Butler (70 articles, 82 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 721 comments [29 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:01:44 PM

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...will be the main priority for most people very soon.  This "election" is already lost... whatever blathering sock-puppet the "ghost in the machine" decides to "select." 

While discussion of the political simulacrum is interesting, it may be best to concentrate on underground food-distribution systems at home.  After the economic collapse (happening now) becomes nose-on-face obvious to enough of the population, several "private industries" may be selected for "public ownership."  

"Government" should be the first of these... along with the "military."  

by waldopaper (15 articles, 3 quicklinks, 34 diaries, 609 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:24:03 PM

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Dennis Kaiser:  Is there some reason that this method cannot be accomplished?  At least we would have proof that we voted and how we voted.  This is somethiing we ALL need as our computer voting machines can be rigged to make certain people come  up with the most votes.  The citizens are losing all confidence in voting.  We never know if the one we voted for actually got that vote.

by Margaret Denson (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 9:12:29 PM

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I think people need to have the option to publish their individual ballots with their name attached.  The right to a private ballot is fine but it also means there is no way to ever prove how you intended to vote.

I am not ashamed of who I vote for. I would like to be able to actually place my name on my ballot with my voter ID and take a "certified" copy home with me after voting including a pink and a yellow copy.  ( It could still remain anonymous but still provide for a "certified" copy of your own, just in case.)

This is the ultimage "hard copy paper trail" to help prevent fraud in elections because there would be a distributed record of every vote cast that would be beyond the reach of anyone who would want to steal an election.

That pink copy could be mailed in to be counted again in the event there is suspected fraud, or could be required to be mailed in to a separate location to be counted. 

Perhaps two drop boxes for ballots at polling places with totally separate counts done by (a) the usual elections commissions and (b) by private auditors under public watch. Compare the results...they should match.

In any case all votes collected and counted should be watched by independant citizen groups much as a police officer must maintain a tight chain of evidence to avoid tampering or contamination.

ANY vote cast on election day must be counted. States have to assume that if anyone did not have a right to vote, that must have been determined prior to election day and that it is presumed that if they are passed in to vote, they have a right to vote.

by Paul Kruger (39 articles, 1 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 304 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:55:07 AM

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No system that relies on audits or recounts will ever work.

They will steal the election by wide enough margins to make recounts or audits moot.

They will make the process expensive as well, and by stealing by a wide margin, will make recounts impossible.

PAPER BALLOTS, COUNTED BY HAND BY MULTIPLE PARTIES, AT THE PRECINCT LEVEL, WITH TRANSPARENT TOTALS COMMUNICATED TO CENTRAL LOCATIONS FOR TRANSARENT CENTRALIZED FINAL TABULATION.

Now, that wasn't hard, was it?

by Charlie L (2 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 747 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 14, 2008 at 9:20:08 AM

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