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The Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show Podcast

CIA Veteran Ray McGovern on Ed Snowden, NSA and Lying Spying Liars

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Permalink Headlined to H1 7/11/13

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Ray McGovern, being manhandled after he stood, silently, back turned, in protest, while Hillary Clinton was speaking. 

Co founder of veteran intelligence professionals for sanity  VIPS

27 veteran of the analysis division of the CIA

Prepared the president's daily briefs  to presidents  nixon, ford and Reagan, and delivered it one on one to top staffers. 

Ray is a progressive hero, brave enough to engage in civil disobedience, smart enough to brief three presidents on CIA intelligence.

I took this photo, with the White House in the background, just a few minutes before these progressive heroes were arrested for civil disobedience, Dec 16, 2010, protesting against the Iraq/Afghan war. 

Top row left to right: Ray McGovern, Daniel Ellsberg, Chris Hedges

Lower row: Debra Sweet, Jodie Evans (pink hat) and Medea Benjamin

Rough Interview Notes-- mostly my questions

How has the espionage and intelligence community changed since then?

A lot of people say "I don't care if my phone calls are recorded or my emails are saved. I don't have anything to hide?"

What do you have to say to them?

Why do the germans tie the disclosures of Edward Snowden to the Gestapo?

Bundes nachen ddddddddddd

german for hero or traitor

How will the Snowden revelations affect the German elections?

But a lot of people are saying that the Germans, the British, French, etc. are doing the same to us as we do to them. 

So, you're saying that any time any US spy agency doesn't want to do spying in the US, they will ask their UK counterpart to do it for them?

A lot of people have said that Edward Snowden has not revealed anything new that people did not know about. Is that true?

What do you think they'll do to Snowden if they get him?

Cyberwars will be the great leveler. 

So-- the NSA engaged in an act of war using cyber attack on IRan. That suggests that the NSA, without congressional oversight, since the NSA people lie to congress, can start a war without congressional authorization. And then, on top of that, you've suggested that Obama may claim that HE didn't know. 

Size: 21,955,200 -- 0 hrs, 45 min, 44 sec


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Rob Kall has spent his adult life as an awakener and empowerer-- first in the field of biofeedback, inventing products, developing software and a music recording label, MuPsych, within the company he founded in 1978-- Futurehealth, and founding, organizing and running 3 conferences: Winter Brain, on Neurofeedback and consciousness, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology (a pioneer in the field of Positive Psychology, first presenting workshops on it in 1985) and Storycon Summit Meeting on the Art Science and Application of Story-- each the first of their kind.  Then, when he found the process of raising people's consciousness and empowering them to take more control of their lives  one person at a time was too slow, he founded which has been the top search result on Google for the terms liberal news and progressive opinion for several years. Rob began his Bottom-up Radio show, broadcast on WNJC 1360 AM to Metro Philly, also available on iTunes, covering the transition of our culture, business and world from predominantly Top-down (hierarchical, centralized, authoritarian, patriarchal, big)  to bottom-up (egalitarian, local, interdependent, grassroots, archetypal feminine and small.) Recent long-term projects include a book, Bottom-up-- The Connection Revolution, debillionairizing the planet and the Psychopathy Defense and Optimization Project. 

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Over 200 podcasts are archived for downloading here, or can be accessed from iTunes. Rob is also published regularly on the

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