I wanted a new 'American Party'!

I wanted a Democratic Presidential Candidate, Al Gore and a Republican Presidential Candidate, Chuck Hagel, two Americans willing to come together for the good of the American people.  It doesn't look as though that will happen, so it's anyones guess.  I want a candidate that will demand accountability for the past 7 years. 

Because things have been reported once, doesn't mean it's old news and unpunishable.   We don't let the masses judge what is a crime and then walk away.  One of my favorite sayings is, 'Nothing to see here, move along', and we do? 

by Conniepae (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 9 comments) on Saturday, December 8, 2007 at 7:49:25 PM
 

solidarity

"accountability for the last seven years"

Oh God, if only, if only . . .

I think some kind of critical mass is forming with America's progressives and we may be very, very close to a fundamental paradigm shift away from all this insanity.  The pendulum is definitely swinging back.  These last seven years have been the incarnattion of pure evil and a counter force is I think ready to go ballistic.  Treasonous 9/ll is the epicenter of hell.

Keep he faith (something I tell myself several times a day!)

Solidarity, Bill

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (231 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 539 comments) on Saturday, December 8, 2007 at 10:12:43 PM
 

3rd party

the only solution is a 3rd party.As long as politics  and winning is based on money.politicians will cater to those with money which unfortunately the middle class no longer has.the only current candidate who espouses true democratic values which people say are being ignored is Dennis Kucinich and he is being ignored by Democrats and Republicans alike.Working within the party you may change things for a few years as FDR  did but fthe party always reverts back.The only choice is a 3rd party with a strong grass roots organization willing to compensate for a lack of money,the only other solution is to keep complaining on blogs as nothing changes

by liberalsrock (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 117 comments) on Sunday, December 9, 2007 at 8:07:32 AM
 

I second that position.

I was puzzled, frankly, by the author's dismissal of what appears to me to be the only way out of the swamp, third party politics. Our two parties are so enmired in a corrupt system, so dependant upon the money given by the corporations who now control our government precisely through the empowerment of this money that the only hope for progressives is to make the leap to a third party.

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Sunday, December 9, 2007 at 10:46:22 AM
 

Liberalism: no longer a politically dirty word!

ardee,

You know, I probably did give that impression, but I'm sorry if I did because I honestly don't know WHAT is coming next.

Perhaps a better way to say it is that I wonder if we're heading for a new permutation of our 2 party system, in which the DLC dems are absorbed into the Republican Party (where they belong!) and then the Democratic Party will basically become the Liberal Party (a name I would much prefer). So, still a 2 paty system, but between the dem/pugs and liberals.

I confess (thanks to the many nsigful responses to my ponderings -- even those that think I'm a schmuk), I'm backing away from a kind of either/or view and replacing it with both/and.

Nationwide boycotts, for example (which I still think is THE new political form which will save us) certainly aren't either/or with a "reformed" Democratic Party. Au contraire, each would butress the other and I think I've been throwing too much of the baby of the Democratic Party out with the bathwater and I'm going to stop doing that. Especially, since so many courageus liberals are trying to change the dem party from within -- and Godspeed to them, since they're working to start an American Reformation.

But my focus is increasingly on "alternative forms" for freedom and Democracy. In a since, I'm leaving the political stuff to people I trust and respect, and trying to start a kind of "Power of the People" movement.  I don't want to call it a "party", since I profoundly believe the internet has given us the means to do MANY empowering apolitical things, such as (here I go again!) nationally orchestrated boycotts. And other things too, like nation wide strikes and Constitutional referendums. But more of this later . . .

solidarity, Bill

ps Have you noticed, the word "liberal" isn't a dirty word anymore? But this is still the tip of the iceburg of liberal/progressive activism. We still don't dream how strong we are!

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (231 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 539 comments) on Sunday, December 9, 2007 at 2:48:45 PM
 

I appreciate the response, Bill

and second the sentiment that we do not know which way our political structure will evolve, but evolve it must.

I have long thought that the system had become rather peculiar when moderate republicans had more in common with their democratic counterparts that they did with the leadership of their own party, and that holds as well for the conservatives in both parties. We might very well see such a change as you conjecture but I think it more likely that the power of money in politics will serve as a glue to hold the two parties together in a sort of hopeless and unnatural union. Especially as it would seem that earlier and earlier primaries are serving to heighten not lessen the power of that money.

I am forced to the conclusion that the real course for liberals to take is to serioulsy consider the growth of third party politics, if only as a way to make the conservative leadership of the Democratic Party asnwerable for the loss of registered democrats.....

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Monday, December 10, 2007 at 7:50:42 AM
 

Steer Them to the Water of Reason

I recently posted the following.  It's no revelation, but the point is -- a great mass of people out there have an "inkling" they are being hoodwinked. They need more education, less propaganda and more unadulterated information, and a kick-in-the-ass to get over the hump.  They're used to being herded, so steer em to the water trough! 

The numbers of the liberals/progressives can increase Exponentially -- by turning on those in the dark to Education and Enlightenment.  Since the elites don't want this happening...we know exactly what to do!  This is a battle line where we can help OUR cause.  (I was going to say MANKIND; but our nation doesn't even deserve to be included in this humane-sounding category until we cut out the cancer of evil enveloping us).

So...

HELP THE SPOON-FED!

by boomerang (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 273 comments) on Sunday, December 9, 2007 at 8:29:24 AM
 

The most powerful voice

The progressive political movement is continually bombarded by cause after cause that it has become fragmented to the point of near ineffectiveness as evidenced by two personal facts:

1.  My dwindling bank account.  Contributions to OpEd, MoveOn, Save the Wolves, Save the environment, 911 Truth,  Political campaign, PBS, NPR, Democracy Now.  It's a long list.

2.  At least one email from each of the above - EVERY DAY. 

The system is broken and I doubt it will be mended in my lifetime, although I do hold hope that it will during my children's lifetime.

The most powerful voice we have is the voice of the worker and the buyer.  The workers of this country must unite to provide a single, unified voice to rise up against the capitalistic regime that is truly governing the planet.

PLEASE READ NAOMI KLEIN'S "SHOCK DOCTRINE" AND GIVE COPIES AS HOLIDAY GIFTS.  I'm send 5 copies to friends knowing it will not bring cheer to their Holiday Season, but will open their eyes to the travesties that have foisted on the world in the name of the American government and, more importantly, the American people.

If this book could be exposed to everyone, worldwide, I would simply be ashamed to call myself an American. 

by Angelo (5 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 176 comments) on Sunday, December 9, 2007 at 8:48:00 AM
 

I would add...

Send everybody Niomi Wolf's LETTERS TO A YOUNG PATRIOT (or something close to that) which lets them also see how close we are to corporate fascism.

by Charlie L (2 articles, 3 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 674 comments) on Sunday, December 9, 2007 at 9:25:12 AM
 

It's all going to come down to who the GOP nominates.

If the GOP puts up an ultra-fascist like Gulianni or a theocrat like Romney, then progressives/liberals are by-and-large put back into the "lesser of two evils" trap, even if the Democratic candidate is as Rethuglican-lite as Hillary or Obama.  Clearly the DCCC, DNC, DSCC, and the other party tools all WANT us to have one of those two are are doing everything they can to destroy the others.

Personally, I will take the philosophy of the Red Brigade in the 1980's and NOT support the Democratic Party if they don't give me a candidate I can believe in.  That is, LET'S SEE HOW BAD IT CAN GET, AND THEN MAYBE PEOPLE WILL WAKE UP.

That's why I don't really care about somebody as stupid (weasel) as Biden saying he will ask for impeachment if we attach Iran -- YOU KNOW, KINDA A LITTLE LATE, DON"T YOU THINK, JOE?  But the truth is, as horrible as an attack on Iran will be for many human beings, it will cause PAIN to AVERAGE AMERICANS WHO CONTINUE TO STAY UNINVOLVED AND DUMB and PERHAPS wake them from their sleep.

by Charlie L (2 articles, 3 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 674 comments) on Sunday, December 9, 2007 at 9:30:49 AM
 

What to do if Kucinich doesn't win the nomination?

I agree, the DLC had turned the Democratic party into "Republican Lite".  If Kucinich doesn't win the nomination, and Hillary, Obama or Edwards loose the General Election, why don't we, the Progressive Base of the Democractic Party march to the local Democratic Party offices, State or County Democratic Headquarters and burn or shred our Democratic Party Voter registration cards and than march to the Voter Registration Offices in our cities, towns and townships and register as Independent or Green Party?  We can always change our registration back to Democrat for the Primary but lets shake the  DLC up.  We won't have our loyality and hard work taken for granted again.

In the mean time, organize and fight for Kucinich.  Run as a Delegate in the states that use that form for selection Delegates to the Democractic National Convention or attend the caucuses.  Tell every one you meet about Kucinich.  Put a sign on your lawn, put a button on your coat and a bumper sticker on your car. Put a flyer or brochure under the windshief wipers of every car that has a Kerry/Edwards Bumper sticker still on their car, impeach Bush bumper sticker, or War is not the answer bumper sticker while at the mall doing Christmas Shopping. Remember your history, only about 5% of the general population actually actively supported the American Revolution.  We can be the tiping point.  Keep blogging, but bogging is not enough.  You have to get out of the blogsphere and talk to ordinary people.  The Swing Voters will decide the general election.  If we get all the discouraged Democrats to vote for Kucinich and then the Swing voters, we can win.  If ordinary Democrats can take over the township in which I live, with a 3 to 2 edge of Republicans to Democrats voter registration ratio, and then add a seat 6 years later, it can be done.  Don't just blog, organize!

by Trainer12 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 49 comments) on Sunday, December 9, 2007 at 9:50:53 AM
 

I'm voting Kucinich or Paul, or indy/3rd party

if they're not nominated, which won't happen without more awareness raised among the electorate, which may happen, as people are waking up in increasing numbers. 

I say if people want to take back their Democrat and Republican parties from the corporate/elite war class and can get Kucinich or Paul nominated, great, i'll vote for a candidate who's words/actions/voting record demonstrates they're loyal to the Constitution and not money/privilege/power. 

I will never again vote for a Republocrat, which is what any "top tier" candidate is. 

In the meantime, I've registered Green, as they're the only party that has called attention to the fact that the official 9/11 story is BS, and called for a real investigation. 

by Better World Order (4 articles, 417 quicklinks, 27 diaries, 881 comments) on Sunday, December 9, 2007 at 1:48:23 PM
 

one more lot to dispise?

What guarentee that the third party won't go into coilition with one of the others?

Or will simply be one more lot to dipise?

I'm a firm believer in multiparty systems despite the risks of instability (Italy comes to mind). The trick is to find the balance.

But in the final analysis a third party solution is a guarentee for the above criticisms Unless you first change the system that is creating the distortions.

The problem is the issue of outside influence ($$$$$$) untill you negate or reduce that a third party would I think would be more of the same.

by Andris (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 531 comments) on Monday, December 10, 2007 at 12:29:03 AM
 

ahh but wait

The third party syndrome is based upon the stated refusal by these parties to abstain from accepting corporate monies. This alone gives me reason to support such entities. If we do get enough third party Congresspersons and Senators, and some day I am convinced that we will, then the two parties will need coalitions to pass legislation. This will give the progressive agenda a boost.

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Monday, December 10, 2007 at 1:51:35 PM
 

politicians are people and systems should guard against

their foibles and yes, believe it or not failings (note the cynicism).

Absolutely, third parties can work and as stated here and elsewhere I too believe that third party syndrome is the best but it’s part of the solution.

I accept that any non American solution can’t be considered as anything but indicative and instructive but are worth the effort to consider. If there is any truth in politics its motivation is always the same human nature. Yes there are cultural variations but this tantamount to tatting along the edge. I am a fan of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs., again it isn’t absolute but a fair lode stone.

In Italy there are up to 40 different parties all vying for power the net result is in the mind of many usually right wingers is unmanageability/instability in government. The public (generally) tend to want predictability/stability and they erroneously see as strong government. To some degree they are right as this country has had 40+ governments since 1946 an average 14 months each. This has come about because of because of coalitions like sugar cubes in hot coffee. It has been argued by Italian academics that this fragmentation has among other “cultural’ causes (village mentality being one) provided the bed for institutionalized corruption to flourish (Mafia). The instructive bit is the need to get elected/ money and the excessive fragmentation.

In the Aust example the Aust Dems were created “to keep the Basteds Honest” (their slogan. Keep in mind basted has different connotations there). For thirty years they held the balance of it had the desired effect. But as I said human nature took over and two leaders in a row wanted to be wheelers and dealers….internecine power struggles lead to the party’s demise. Hence the conservatives got control and “work Choices”.

One final permutation is that  there are two conservative parties in Aus the ‘Liberals’ (john Howard’s big business lot) and the ‘National Party’ (country party) that form a coalition that has dominated politics here off and on for 50 years. Neither party could rule on their own right but together they can. Statistics show that if they merged they would rarely gain power. It is this type of coalition I would caution against.

by Andris (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 531 comments) on Monday, December 10, 2007 at 5:15:57 PM