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October 12, 2007 at 17:13:32
Ann Coulter and Justice Antonin Scalia to Synagogue - Jews Are Safer with Christians in Charge by Thom Hartmann Page 1 of 2 page(s) |
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“While Ann Coulter has freedom of speech, news outlets should exercise their freedom to use better judgment,” said NJDC Executive Director Ira N. Forman. “Just as media outlets don’t invite those who believe that Martians walk the earth to frequently comment on science stories, it’s time they stop inviting Ann Coulter to comment on politics.” Media Matters for America has a complete transcript of Coulter’s comments — and video — available here. Similarly, Justice Antonin Scalia turned history on its head several years ago when he attended an Orthodox synagogue in New York and claimed that the Founders intended for their Christianity to play a part in government. Scalia then went so far as to suggest that the reason Hitler was able to initiate the Holocaust was because of German separation of church and state. The Associated Press reported on November 23, 2004, “In the synagogue that is home to America’s oldest Jewish congregation, he [Scalia] noted that in Europe, religion-neutral leaders almost never publicly use the word ‘God.’”
“Did it turn out that,” Scalia asked rhetorically, “by reason of the separation of church and state, the Jews were safer in Europe than they were in the United States of America?” He then answered himself, saying, “I don’t think so.”
Justice Scalia and Ann Coulter may well benefit from looking back at the photographs that came out of Germany that were all over the newspapers and news magazines at war’s end. The photos that can be seen, for instance, at www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm of the Catholic Bishops giving the collective Nazi salute. The annual April 20th celebration, declared by Pope Pius XII, of Hitler’s birthday. The belt buckles of the German army, which declared “Gott Mit Uns” (”God is with us”). The pictures of the 1933 investiture of Bishop Ludwig Müller, the official Bishop of the 1000-Years-Of-Peace Nazi Reich. That last photo should be the most problematic for Ann Coulter and Justice Scalia, because Hitler had done exactly what Scalia is recommending - he merged church and state.
Which brings up one of the main reasons - almost always overlooked by modern-day commentators, both left and right - that the Founders and Framers were so careful to separate church and state: They didn’t want religion to be corrupted by government.
Many of the Founders were people of faith, and even the Deists like Franklin, Washington, and Jefferson were deeply touched by what Franklin called “The Mystery.” And they’d seen how badly religious bodies became corrupted when churches acquired power through affiliation with or participation in government.
The Puritans, for example, passed a law in Plymouth Colony in 1658 that said, “No Quaker Rantor or any other such corrupt person shall be a freeman in this Corporation [the state of Massachusetts].” Puritans banned Quakers from Massachusetts under pain of death, and, as Norman Cousins notes in his book about the faith of the Founders, In God We Trust, “And when Quakers persisted in returning [to Massachusetts] in defiance of law, and in practicing their religious faith, the Puritans made good the threat of death; Quaker women were burned at the stake.”
Quakers were also officially banned from Virginia prior to the introduction of the First Amendment to our Constitution. Cousins notes: “Quakers who fled from England were warned against landing on Virginia shores. In fact, the captains of sailing ships were put on notice that they would be severely fined. Any Quaker who was discovered inside the state was fined without bail.”
Throughout most of the 1700s in Virginia, a citizen could be imprisoned for life for saying that there was no god, or that the Bible wasn’t inerrant. “Little wonder,” notes Cousins, “that Virginians like Washington, Jefferson, and Madison believed the situation to be intolerable.”
Even the oppressed Quakers got into the act in the 1700s. They finally found a haven in Pennsylvania, where they infiltrated government and promptly passed a law that levied harsh fines on any person who didn’t show up for church on Sunday or couldn’t “prove” that s/he was home reading scripture on that holy day.
Certainly the Founders wanted to protect government from being hijacked by the religious, as I noted in a previous article that quotes Jefferson on this topic. But several of them were even more concerned that the churches themselves would be corrupted by the lure of government’s easy access to money and power.
Religious leaders in the Founders’ day, in defense of church/state cooperation, pointed out that for centuries kings and queens in England had said that if the state didn’t support the church, the church would eventually wither and die.
James Madison flatly rejected this argument, noting in a July 10, 1822 letter to Edward Livingston: “We are teaching the world the great truth, that Governments do better without kings and nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson: the Religion flourishes in greater purity without, than with the aid of Government.”
He added in that same letter, “I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together.”
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| 8 comments |
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peace
Wise, wise decision. This woman is hate incarnate and most Americans who abhor right wing fanatics of any country (including those in America and Israel) know its lose/lose for the Earth (literally!) to give this woman the slightest attention. Hearing her vicious voice attack the Jewish community which has given the human race so many glories in science, art, and civilization at it best, is beyond nauseating. peace, Bill Epler by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (291 articles, 59 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 763 comments [44 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 8:17:06 PM  (0+)
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Reply: my, my, my
My goodness, much ado about nothing. I stand by my affirming remarks about the Jewish community, having Jewish blood myself on both sides of my family. So, edit away, you'll never change my mind about Ann Coulter (gag). peace, Bill by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (291 articles, 59 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 763 comments [44 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 7:46:41 PM (0+)
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It's a private matter
Everyone should keep his faith to himself. I'd be perfectly happy if I never heard a politician ever say "God bless you" at the end of a speech. One, he doesn't mean it; it's as meaningless as saying 'have a good day.' Two, perhaps there are more people than we think who are offended by it. His god isn't my god, my god isn't her god, her god isn't their god, and so it goes. I don't want a president, like the current one who professes to be a man of deep religious conviction and abiding faith, yet hasn't done one thing that exhibits the qualities, which I alway thought were the basic tenets of that faith. Regardless of what faith the president choses to believe in, I don't want faith-based leadership; I don't want his leadership based on anything other than clear-headed logical thinking and doing the best thing for the people of this country. As far as Coultergeist goes, it's all been said every time she opens her vicious mouth, and still, nothing happen to her. She's laughing all the way to her Swiss bank account. by Sandy Sand (198 articles, 0 quicklinks, 227 diaries, 1548 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 10:32:39 PM (0+)
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Thom Paine to Thom Hartmann
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, Roman Church, Greek Church, Turkish Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church." "Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty." Samuel Adams A bedrock principle , a cornerstone of our nation, separation of church and state, for whatever reason one may ascribe to our founders, is imperriled by those who know not the full ramifications of their actions. While I am nowhere as versed in the intentions of the founders as is Mr. Hartmann all my studies of their intent leads me to believe that it was the freedom of the individual, to worship or not, free from any duress, of any kind, that was at the heart of their stance. by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 8:03:09 AM (0+)
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Ann Coulter may have a point, but SO WHAT?
It has always been Christians who stood beside the Jews, but that statement just BEGS to be bashed.. The Republicans all tend to CRINGE every time Ann Coulter opens her BIG FAT MOUTH, and Democrats just love to say "WHITE" every time she says "BLACK" pretty much because if Ann Coulter says it, IT HAS to be EVIL incarnate... I suggest everybody just step back, GROW UP, and look at her statements with the thought that MAYBE she speaks truth, ONCE IN A WHILE... And MAYBE if Ann Coulter would decide to be a bit less of a SHOCK VALUE WHORE, it could be that she might be taken seriously once in a great while... Ciao, CZ by steve scheetz (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 829 comments [52 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 5:15:10 PM (0+)
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Reply: Oh, BTW
I don't care what she says, because at some point, people will just turn her off, and she will be out of a job.. Ciao, CZ by steve scheetz (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 829 comments [52 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 5:16:16 PM (0+)
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Crooks, Suckers, and Lazy Cowards
The human race is made up of crooks, suckers, and lazy cowards regardless of race or creed. Coulter is a crook who uses insults to get rich. The media would carry child porn if it could make money from it. by John Hanks (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1762 comments [39 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 14, 2007 at 10:57:15 AM (0+)
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Reply: sink or swim
John, It certainly seems that way, doesn't it? Especially now that the dems have betrayed us utterly. But my fear is that if the patterns you so excellently articulate aren't somehow "broken", we are doomed beyond doomed. This, if fact, I suspect this is the quantum jump challenge of the early 3rd millenia. FINALLY the human race has to do it right. Rampant immorality is something I think evolution will no long permit the human species to get away with. If we don't get our rationality/morality act together as the "human race", I think its extinction time for bipeds with language. I doubt if the rest of the planet would give a rat's ass. by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (291 articles, 59 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 763 comments [44 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 14, 2007 at 7:41:44 PM (0+)
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