This June will mark an anniversary that will live in infamy for the people affected by the event it commemorates following a far greater one 19 years earlier on May 14, 1948. On June 5, 1967, Israel launched its so-called "Six-Day (preemptive) War" against three of its neighboring Arab states - Egypt, Jordan and Syria - claiming it was in self-defense to avoid annihilation Israeli leaders later admitted was spurious and false cover for a large-scale long-planned, calculated war of aggression it believed it could easily win and did.
The New York Times quoted Prime Minister Menachem Begin's (1977 - 83) August, 1982 speech saying: "In June, 1967, we had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that (President Gamal Abdel) Nasser (1956 - 70) was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him."
Two time Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin (1974 - 77 and 1992 - 95) told French newspaper Le Monde in February, 1968: "I do not believe Nasser wanted war. The two divisions which he sent into Sinai on May 14 would not have been enough to unleash an offense against Israel. He knew it and we knew it."
General Mordechai Hod, Commander of the Israeli Air Force during the Six-Day War said in 1978: "Sixteen years of planning had gone into those initial eighty minutes. We lived with the plan, we slept on the plan, we ate the plan. Constantly we perfected it."
General Haim Barlev, Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) Chief told Ma'ariv in April, 1972: "We were not threatened with genocide on the eve of the six-day war, and we had never thought of such a possibility."
Other Israeli leaders and generals voiced the same sentiment that in June, 1967 Israel was under no threat, yet preemptively undertook a war of aggression falsely telling the world it had no other choice. It had a clear one. It could have chosen peace, but didn't and never did earlier or since to the present because discretionary aggressive wars of choice serve Israeli interests as they do its US imperial partner.
In 1967, it was the Jewish state's third major aggressive war that grew out of the founding of Zionism in 1897 by Theodor Herzl aiming to establish a permanent Jewish state. He planned the first Zionist Congress in Basle, Switzerland, became its first president, and envisioned a permanent Jewish homeland in Palestine justified by what Professor Norman Finkelstein called the "colossal hoax" Jews got there first establishing their ancestral home on "a land without people for a people without land." It became the state of Israel in May, 1948 during the new Jewish state's first preemptive aggressive so-called "War of Independence" Palestinians call "al-Nakba" - the catastrophe.
From it, Jewish forces seized 78% of British Mandatory Palestine establishing the state of Israel May 14 when the Mandate ended. It was 40% more territory than UN Resolution 181 of November, 1947 allowed with a 56 - 44% division that already gave Israel most of the fertile land, nearly all urban and rural territory, and 400 of over 1000 Palestinian villages their residents lost by UN mandate, with no right of appeal, to the Jewish population comprising one-third of the total at that time.
The 1948 negotiated cease-fire line became known as the "Green Line." Egypt occupied Gaza, and Jordan controlled the West Bank. It was Israel's moment of triumph. The war lasted six months, expelling and killing about 800,000 Palestinians. It destroyed 531 Palestinian villages, 11 urban neighborhoods, and was a clear case of ethnic cleansing international law calls a crime against humanity. Guilty Israeli leaders were never held to account for it or forced to admit what, in fact, they indisputably did according to recently declassified Israeli archival material Israeli historian Ilan Pappe used for his important new book, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Noted British journalist and documentary filmmaker John Pilger calls him "Israel's bravest, most principled, most incisive historian."
In his book, Pappe documented Israeli crimes including cold-blooded mass-murder; destruction of homes, villages and crops; rapes; other atrocities; and massacres of defenseless men, women and children shown no mercy. It happened because British Mandate forces did nothing to stop it, and when neighboring Arab states finally intervened, they acted pathetically without conviction against a superior Israeli fighting force easily able to defeat the small, ill-equipped and unmotivated token forces matched against it.
Israel's second war of aggression was launched along with Britain and France October 29, 1956 against Egypt following President Nasser's decision to nationalize the Suez Canal. Invading forces gave in to US and Soviet pressure to cease fighting eight days later, and after the Federal Reserve began selling large amounts of British pounds undermining the dollar-pound exchange rate. It ended when Israel withdrew its last troops March 8, 1957.
On June 5, 1967, Israel launched its third major war of aggression but hardly its last with another one always planned and ready to unleash on the flimsiest pretext almost no other nation could get away with. It did it for the usual reasons nations go to war when under no external threat to do it - territory, resources (for Israel Golan's water was key), and a desire for unchallengeable regional dominance. As it always did since, Israel falsely claimed its security was threatened by creating myths Syria was shelling Israeli farmers; legitimate, non-threatening Egyptian military exercises masked a preparation for war; and that "incendiary Arab rhetoric" proved it. With plans set and a date picked, Foreign Minister Abba Eban flew to Washington May 26 to inform Lyndon Johnson of Israel's intentions and was assured the US backed them.
The war began preemptively June 5 and proved to be an impressive display of overwhelming power with Israel destroying 90% of Egypt's 300 + aircraft on the ground and two-thirds of the Syrian Air Force the first day. After 24 hours of conflict, Israeli Air Force (IAF) Commander Mordechai Hod announced the combined Arab air forces were destroyed, and the devastating toll on them proved it. Israel lost a mere 19 fighter aircraft while Egypt lost about 300, Syria 60, Jordan 35, Iraq 15, and Lebanon one or more. The Palestinians were about to lose much more - the remaining Gaza and West Bank parts of their nation leaving them stateless.
On day 2, Israel invaded Gaza and the West Bank; on day three Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) entered northern Sinai, devastated Egyptian brigades, captured Jerusalem, and got Jordan to surrender. On day four, the IDF invaded Haram Al-Sharif and central Sinai, and by day five had advanced to the Suez Canal, taking all of Sinai and the Syrian Golan Heights. The war was practically over before it began, but Israeli forces showed no mercy using their unopposed air power to massacre thousands of defenseless Egyptian troops on the ground. It was a turkey shoot made possible largely because Washington supported it providing Israel with the latest munitions including tarmac-shredding explosives preventing undamaged planes from taking off making them sitting ducks to follow-up attacks. In addition, a US carrier group provided intelligence and communications help standing ready to intervene if needed.
Though nothing like today, even then Washington showed its commitment to Israel, and ignoring and covering up the USS Liberty incident highlights it. The intelligence ship was in the Mediterranean about 13 nautical miles off the Sinai Peninsula when Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats attacked it with full knowledge it was a US vessel as the senior Israeli lead pilot later admitted. Thirty-four on-board were killed after which Johnson Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered an inquiry that concluded the incident was a case of "mistaken identity" despite knowing full well it wasn't. Later, retired Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Admiral Thomas Moorer said the incident was "one of the classic all-American cover-ups" for a close ally Washington has made excuses and allowances for ever since along with providing huge amounts of financial aid and modern weaponry and munitions in near-limitless amounts.
I am a 72 year old, retired, progressive small businessman concerned about all the major national and world issues, committed to speak out and write about them.
"It's long past time people of conscience everywhere take a public stand and demand 40 years of illegal repressive occupation end so Palestinians can finally have what all people have a right to expect and demand - to live freely in their own land the way international law mandates with nations supporting it accepting nothing less."
In the '60's we knew if you weren't a part of the solution; you were a part of the problem.
Silence is complicity and ALL USA Tax Payers are culpable in the occupation of Palestine, by virtue of our over 100 BILLION dollars that have gone to Israel to continue its military domination over the indigenous peoples of the Holy Land.
What is needed is an HONEST broker for peace to intervene and demand Justice be done:
Justice requires equal human rights for all and an end to the occupation.
Justice will lead to peace and security and that will deflate the hate that fuels militants.
DO SOMETHING: Join and Endorse the Global June 5th Initiative:
June 10-11, 2007, the US Campaign and United for Peace and Justice are sponsoring a two-day mobilization in Washington, DC to protest the 40th anniversary of Israel's illegal military occupation of the Palestinian West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip. Under the banner, "The World Says No to Israeli Occupation", the US Campaign and UFPJ will hold a massive rally, teach-in, and grassroots lobbying day:
I have been to OPT four times since June 2005. I am returning this summer to be with the children in the nearly 60 year old refugee camps-three in the Little Town of Bethlehem alone!
I have been writing on the web and in two books bearing witness to the Christian Exodus from the Holy land which has dropped their numbers from 20% to less than 1.3% of total population and the migration is due to THE OCCUPATION!
Oprah is traveling to Israel.
Drop her an email and ask
WHY NOT GO TO OCCUPIED TERRITORY TOO?
WHY NOT TAKE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WITH YOU?
I hope Stephens words will reach OPRAH, this Administration and Congress too.
Telling one side of a story is not honest journalism...
... and I frequently tell that same thing to people on both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian debate. When I covered the Ohio 2004 Presidential election, even though I believed it was stolen, I offered Blackwell the opportunity to tell his side and he did so through Carlo LoParo. I published LoParo's comments in their entirety. I went on to disprove them in later articles through fact-checking, but at least the "other side" got some real say.
I would encourage people to read this Wikipedia entry with its over 130 citations ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War as well as the discussions that cover disputed points (linked to on that page)
The above links cover everything and more than Stephen does on the Arab/Palestinian side, but adds the Israeli side as well.
We need to start regarding people who tell one side of a story as part of the problem and part of the reason people engage in wars in the first place. If you inflame people with journalism to believe that one side has no justification whatsoever and are animals, of course the logical consequence is that people will regard them that way and regard killing them as not the same as killing "real" human beings. That is essentially the problem in the Middle East and this article is, as I said, part of the problem, not in any way part of some solution.
by
Steven Leser (213 articles, 45 quicklinks, 33 diaries, 1399 comments)
on Thursday, May 24, 2007 at 8:26:00 AM
I totally disagree I'm only telling one side except that there is only one side - THE TRUTH, and that's the only side I ever tell. There's no disagreement on this except among those spreading lies or blind to what's going on in the OPT.
by
Stephen Lendman (252 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 76 comments)
on Thursday, May 24, 2007 at 8:31:50 AM
In fact, this idea of ' telling both sides of the story' is a ludicrous, purely hypocritical invention of those, who just get money from both sides to engage in prostitution. There were such people before, who literally wrote for both sides, sold their skill. Wilkipedia has been long ago discarded when it came to the proper interpretation of the historical events. It only can be used to verify some very particular factual references like dates of birth or something. Mr. Lendman is absolutely right: he looks at the facts, makes logical conclusions and presents his vision the way he sees the truth from his experience and his analytical skills. As far as I see it, he is not paid for his visions like Dershowitz and other prostitutes. BTW, the truthful and compassionate vision displayed by Mr. Lendman in no way insults the Israeli people ( I have to admit that I deliberately and attentively read the whole thing trying to find anything of that kind, sorry); it tells us a story of an ugly, criminal powergrabbing by the ruling Israeli elite which to rule supreme will sacrifice its own people ( and only that is how the current policy of theirs can be defined).
Israel as a country had become a trap for its own people. We here in the US do a great disservice to the Jewish people by blindly supporting anything what Israeli govt is doing. We here in the US thus become compliant in sacrificing the Jewish youth for the cause wrong. Moreover, the disgusting stance of artificial Jewish nationalism ( of course, nomal, reasonable Jews don't care for all that crap), presenting Jewish people in some specific role as a 'forepost of the Western civilization in the barbaric lands' etc.- is pure racism and also betrayal of the Centuiries' long noble Jewish tradition of peace. I can vouch that I personally read nearly the whole library of the Zionist book club when I was a refugee. Those books were supposed to glorify Israel and Zionism and were aimed at the newcomers from the former Soviet Union. Not only they were a disgusting hate propaganda of the lowest level, but to my amazement many of those were actually written by the people who formerly were active Communists in the former SU, members of the Party elite and ... ReichJude- active participants in the rampant antisemitism. They are still doing that serviing their new masters. That tells you a lot.
I thus would say that the truth that sadly tells us that Jews can be as atrocious and mean as anyone else if they have a chance and means to do that helps us, Jews including to understand ourselves, maybe even forgive ourselves but it also puts an obligation on us not to be blind fools.
by
Mark Sashine (51 articles, 19 quicklinks, 244 diaries, 3463 comments)
on Thursday, May 24, 2007 at 9:05:32 AM
I dissent, for the other side gets PLENTY of Press
"On March 10, 1948, eleven men had a fateful meeting in the Red House headed by Ben Gurion. The eleven decided to expel one million Palestinians from historical Palestine. No minutes were taken, but many memoirs were written about that fateful meeting. A systematic ethnic cleansing of Palestine began and within seven months the Zionists managed to expel one half of all the Palestinian people from their villages and towns."The New York Times followed Israeli troops and reported the truth of the expulsion and separation of men and women, and of the many massacres. The world was well informed in 1948, but a year later not a trace was reported in the USA press or books. It was as if nothing ever happened.
"From March to October 1948 the USA State Department stated what was happening was a crime against humanity and ethnic cleansing. When ever one ethnic group expels another group they should be treated as War Criminals and the victims should be allowed to return. This is never mentioned in the USA about Palestine.
"Israel is so successful in their ethnic cleansing because the world doesn't care! The ethnic cleansing continues via the apartheid policies of the Israeli government and because of the denial of the truth by the USA media.
"To claim Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East is bullshit! The Six Day War of 1967 escalated the ethnic cleansing and today in Jerusalem every Palestinian who fails to pay taxes, or has a minor infraction will loose their citizenship.
"In 1948 the mechanism of denial and ethnic cleansing as an IDEOLOGY, not a policy but a formula began. When Zionism began in the 19th century it was meant to be a safe haven for Jews and to help redefine Judaism as a national movement, not just a religion. Nothing wrong with either of those goals! But by the late 19th Century it was decided the only way these goals could be achieved was by ridding the indigenous population and it became an evil ideology.
"Israeli Jewish life will never be simple, good, or worth living while this ideology of domination, exclusiveness and superiority is allowed to continue. The mind set today is that unless Israel is an exclusive Jewish State, Palestinians will continue to be obstacles. However, there has always been a small vocal minority challenging this.
"The only thing that can save Palestinians is for the world to say "ENOUGH is ENOUGH!" The way to challenge and change the ethnic cleansing is to pursue true democracy and the use of sanctions and divestment, for money talks."-Dr. Pappe's opening remarks November 8, 2006 during SABEEL [Arabic for THE WAY] Conference in Jerusalem, excerpted from MEMOIRS of a Nice Irish American 'Girls's Life in Occupied Territory.
Since 1948, USA taxpayers have provided nearly 100 Billion dollars to Israel. However, America's $84.8 billion in aid to Israel just from fiscal years 1949 through 1998, and the interest the U.S. paid to borrow this money, has cost U.S. taxpayers $134.8 billion, not adjusted for inflation.
The original hope of Zionism was that the Jewish people would have a safe and peaceful dwelling place.
Jews remain a traumatized people and their Holocaust hangover affects all of us.
For millennia the Jewish people have been threatened and oppressed, but in the 21st century, they have become the oppressors. In the 60's the comic strip Pogo critiqued Vietnam, and the words still echo four decades later, "We have seen the enemy and he is US."
If America had forced Israel to abide by International Law and not supplied billions of weapons of destruction at bargain basement prices and financial aid, Israel would have made peace with her neighbors long ago.
A safe and peaceful dwelling place cannot be had through the barrel of a gun.
Nonviolent Palestinians must be supported and encouraged, and all violence must be unequivocally renounced.
During World War II the Nazis cold bloodedly murdered six million innocent Jews because good people did nothing for far too long. Afterwards, the UN, the USA, and the European states decided to create a Jewish state in Palestine.In 1947, with the termination of the British Mandate and rising violence and terrorism between Jews and Palestinians, the UN called for a Jewish-Arab partition of Palestine. Neither side liked the deal, but the secular Zionists jumped at the chance while the Palestinians and Arabs opposed it, citing the injustice of demanding Palestinians pay for Hitler's atrocities.
Israel proclaimed it's independence in May 1948 by affirming: "One the day of the termination of the British mandate and on the strength of the United Nations General Assembly declare The State of Israel will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel: it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion it will guarantee freedom of religion [and] conscience and will be faithful to the Charter of the United Nations."
IMAGINE what a wonderful world it will be, when Israel keeps its words!
Many thanks for your wonderful, thoughtful comments
I wish I had time to respond as your comments deserve. So forgive my being brief and only thank you for all of them. Like you, I'm committed and passionate on this issue because I, too, believe in equal justice for all, and that In Israel and the OPT that doesn't just mean for all Jews only.
I reviewed Ilan Pappe's important book - The Ethnic Cleaning of Palestine written from recently disclosed official Israeli archival records. It's a vital to know ugly story of mass murder and a stolen country from people living there for 100s of years and justified on the "collosal hoax" Jews got there first that's pure baloney.
Read Pappe, Norman Finkelstein, James Petras crucial book - The Power of Israel in the United States (I also reviewed), Chomsky and many other writers and scholars not afraid to tell ugly truths. I'm proud to say I'm not either.
by
Stephen Lendman (252 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 76 comments)
on Thursday, May 24, 2007 at 9:05:46 AM
You didn't tell the truth, and sorry, the rest of you are
wrong as well. The fact that many others on both sides are telling only one side does not relieve a journalist of their duty to the truth.
Mr. Lendman, what you penned is not the truth. It is one of many sad one-sided rants in a long history of them. Here is the 'Truth' as well JewishLibrary .
I am as repulsed by this version of events as I am by yours. Even worse, telling half truths like this provides further instigation and justification for people on both sides to commit violence.
Both accounts, yours and the one I linked above and many others use quotes out of context liberally to achieve the intent of the journalist. Again, that is not honest, that is not the truth as you tried to suggest. Telling the truth does not require quotes out of context.
by
Steven Leser (213 articles, 45 quicklinks, 33 diaries, 1399 comments)
on Thursday, May 24, 2007 at 10:50:33 AM
for some comparisons I will make but during the Hitler's expansion there were a plenty of people who claimed that the world was biased against him and his purposes. ' Balanced Approach' was sought many times. That was also promoted by Nazis who always had some explanations of their behavior: the treaty of Versailles, the Communists, the stabillity, the necessity to liberate the Osterreich ( Austria) as the historic place of the birth of Fuhrer, the fate of Sudetendeitch, the fate of the Polish Germans, the bad behavior of the International Jewry, the necessity to help the Volksdeiche- the Germans in Baltics and in Russia, etc. etc. BTW, many of those who actually were helped by the Nazis benefited from that process and some of them still reap the harvest. Some paid the price, though. Hey, the Nazis used to justify their deeds by historical and pseudohistorical arguments, they quoted the Nibelungs and lauded the batlle in the Tevtoburg Forest against the Romans. Reminds you of something?
Here is something for all of us to think about as if we all are in the same room. There is no absolute truth and nothing can be achieved by accusing each other of bias or taking words out of context. There are, though absolute criteria for analysis, developed by humans: Those are-interests, consistency, comparison and reputation ( who does it). Those criteria do not bring to the conclusion; they only help to sort the data after a person encounters his own experience and makes his own first put. I made mine. Thousands of the first- generation immigrant Jewish children from all places of the world died in the Israeli wars since 1967 thus rendering the whole effort of immigration hopeless. It was a crime to lure people to immigrate, tear their roots off only to sacrifice their children, the only hope of their lives for whatever damned doctrine imposed. It was a crime to use the Russina, Moroccan, Hungarian, Romanian Jewish children to kill the Arab children of the same age. It is a crime still, the worst of the crimes. No purpose can justify it. Here is your consistency, Mr. Leser. As for who perpetrated those crimes, you are welcome to look at the faces of the Zionist leadership as well as to ponder of what their interests were. Hey, if not for all that blood Golda Meir would be what she was supposed to be- some small potatoe latka in some Jewish anclave in New York. Of course, what a game- to play with the fate of the whole nation, many nations instead.
There is no such thing as objectivity here: everyone chooses his/her own way and we should not expect an agreement. But the dead are dead. And maybe the sign of justice is that very thing that we do not engage in ' balanced discussion' but each of us puts his pain on the table and lives with it. Pain is justice, the highest justice and it is never balanced.
by
Mark Sashine (51 articles, 19 quicklinks, 244 diaries, 3463 comments)
on Thursday, May 24, 2007 at 1:25:35 PM
Sleser001, Thank you for your response to this one sided, very biased article. Your only reward is knowing you are trying to look at both sides with some sanity and fairness.
Panurg, Ms Fleming and Mr. Lendman had better get used to the idea that the Republic of Israel is here to stay. The refugee camps should be abandoned and the Palestinians amalgamated into the mainstream of Palestine (not greater Palestine as on the Hamas and Fatah maps as, Panurg, to use you analogy, as Hitler spoke of Greater Germany in the thirties, but a the nation of Palestine standing beside the nation of Israel. Good night they have been there over sixty years. How long can one be a refugee before they become a Lebanese or a Jordanian?
The radical fundamentalist Muslims use the refugee camps to incite war and hatred while trying to illicit tears from the West. There are tears from the West but none from the Muslim countries. How strange? They could make peace tomorrow if they wished. They do not wish. Hamas exists as does Hezbollah to violently destroy Israel. It is in their charter and no amount of denying by Mr. Lendman and Ms. Fleming will change their avowed goal.
What will happen to the Jews if Israel loses the first war of however many the Arabs wish to start. They will be exterminated as they have been over a long twenty-six hundred years. Israel knows that all that stands between her and total annihilation is the nation of Israel itself, not the United States. Israel trusts the US about as far as I can through a two ton gorilla.
The cry of European Jewry at the end of WW II was, "Never Again." They meant it with all their heart. They still remember Auschwitz, Dachau, Bergen-Belsen, Treblenka and a hundred other camps:
Just in case some of you have so conveniently forgotten: Auschwitz-- 2 million Jews exterminated, Belzec-- six hundred thousand Jews exterminated, Chelmo-- three hundred and fifty thousand Jews exterminated, Majdanek-- 1 million four hundred thousand Jews exterminated, Sobibor-- two hundred and fifty thousand Jews exterminated, Treblinka-- eight hundred thousand Jews exterminated-- all for just being Jews by definition of having a Jewish grandmother who was Jewish.
This death camp numbers do not count all the Jews murdered by the death squads as they moved through the USSR like a sharp knife through hot butter. Panurg, you are from the USSR if I remember correctly, maybe you should inform Ms. Fleming and Mr. Lindman about the "Einsatzgruppen". There was "Einsatzgruppe A, Einsatsgruppe B, Einsatzgruppe C, Einsatzgruppe D. They worked with each of the German armies from the invasion of Poland to the gates of Moscow. They were the brain child of Richard Heydrich of the RSHA. Otto Ohlendorf was hung at Nuremberg because of his through work with them. There are now in Germany seventeen miles of Nazi file cabinets giving details of these six million murders. The German were pretty efficient record keepers. I am glad they were just some we can keep the holocaust deniers from winning the Big Lie.
From what we see of the terrorist who are more than willing to murder school children and women in market places, the indescribable horror of what Iraqis are doing to Iraqis, what the Taliban is doing to doctors and school teachers in Afghanistan, it appears that the Gestapo and SS were mere boy scouts compared to the likes of Hezbollah, Hamas and Al Qada. They will put ten million Jews to death and cry that there are not more for them to expterminate if Israel ever loses the first time. I wonder how many chances Israel will keep giving them to try and try again. Usually when you lose a war, you pay a pretty stiff penalty. Just ask East Germany, Bugaria, Romania, Poland and Hungry after WW II. You may not believe radical Muslims will exterminate every Israeli Jew. but the Jews in Israel know it and live on that premise.
Hang in there Steven and keep standing up for the truth.
by
pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 962 comments)
on Thursday, May 24, 2007 at 8:52:44 PM
Reverend, I surely am from those places and all you mentioned above is true and even more. I actually wrote all that in my ' Slimy love' series and recently in my articles but you do not seem to remember. What a knowledge! Now, the only thing- those horrible things were done by... Germans, Croatians, Polish, Hungarians, Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians- all nice Christian folks with crosses and Christmases.. There was a some involvement of the Arab legions in the Nazi onslaught in Africa but those were capitalizing on nationalism and did not last long.
Now, #1: If you and people like you are so concerned about Jews why don't you protest the installing the diplomatic relations with Baltics where all the former SS are legalized or Ukraine, when UPA, the nationalist collaborators are considered heroes. Those who machine-gunned the Jews, boiled people alive, etc- they are openly heralded and our Prez loves it and Israelis love it too. They have embassies there and their relations are terrific. They now call the Salaspiels concentration children camp in Latvia (that's where children wre kept for medical experiments) a 'former correctional facility'. BTW the overwhelmign majority of the German concentration camps were liberated by the Russians. I wrote an article about it. Did you join me in the congratulations of the Russain nation an dother nations of the former Soviet Union who lost 27 million people doing just that? Eat your foot, Reverend. BTW, I would very much caution from using the words as 'plight of European Jewry' because if there was a plight, there was not ' Never again' but ' Leave us alone'. That plight was ignored and instead of letting those poor survivors to live in peace whenever they wanted, they were sold to the Zionists to go fight Arabs.
#2: It is becoming tiresome to argue about ' Republic of Israel' every time as if the Oklahomian cares more for the Jews than the Jews themselves.. Slimy love, here we go again. Oh, my- those pesky Arabs, who happened to live there before- they all just thinks about nothing else but to exterminate the Jews. What a picture! So far they are being exterminated, but so what - they multiply like rabbits, right? Poor Jews- they think about Holocaust every day, poor souls. It is in their psyche, that's why they have to be so mean sometimes..
I once told you, Reverend- leave the Jews alone. Israel is one thing and Jews are another. If you want to satisfy your morbid sense of Slimy Love- invite some Oklahomian Jews to your Church and ask them whey don't they send their children to fight for Israel. See what they say. Just be prepared to duck.
by
Mark Sashine (51 articles, 19 quicklinks, 244 diaries, 3463 comments)
on Friday, May 25, 2007 at 8:06:56 AM
Panurg, "If you and peole like you are so concerned about J
"If you and people like you are so concerned about Jews…"
Panurg, let us get something straight about me or your "you" and I will not try to answer for your "and those people like you," I have no more love for the Jews than I have for Palestinians or the Arabs or the Blacks or the Latinos or Irish or anyone else. I abhor cowardly terrorist who think the going to Paradise to rape nine year virgin girls for eternity for killing nine year olds on buses.
I remember your comments before. I hope you read my last one to you on the last robopednews. I wrote it tongue in cheek, but still I meant every word. You come across to me as a "lost" Jew having no moorings. You seem not to fit in the Jewish world; you seem not to fit in the Gentile world; you seem not to fit in the Russia world; you seem not to fit in the United States.
You speak about being tired of someone from Oklahoma claiming to know about what is best for Jews or Israel. I could say I get tired of someone who seems to have left his heart back in the old USSR and thinking his being a Jew makes him a spokesman for all Jewry and being from Russia makes him an expert on everything WW II.
I do not know what your major was in the University, but it seems you had a special training in "Argumentum Ad Hominem" with a training to avoid the argument. Do you not realize that it makes no difference where you were reared, of what race you were born, what education you have, or any other personal item? A person may be deficient in each of those areas, but it does not change his argument one wit. If you do not understand the logical fallacy, I would suggest you quit attempting to argue. Time and again you attack the person as who is, what he has written, or to what organization he belongs and from this you seem to think it proves your false arguments to be true.
Time and again I have asked you, "Who put you as the international spokesman for all Jews?" You can talk about the Baltic and the former SS in power and it probably used to be true. If an SS eighteen year old private in 1944 is in power anywhere in the world, that private would be eighty-one years old today. I do not imagine many privates in any army would be in power anywhere at eighty-one years old. If they were in power in the Baltic, it was with the permission of the Communist Party of the USSR. It would be less likely a Communist and a Nazi would be bedfellows in anything knowing that they are diametrically opposed theories of government as much as Sadaam Hussein and Osam bin Laden were opposed as a secularist and a fanatical religious Muslim.
Since you answered none of my propositions I take for granted that you agree with every one of them.
I am glad that you agree if Israel ever loses the first war it will result in the extermination of ten to twelve million Jews.
I am glad you agree that Iran is headed to nuclear weapons as is Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Israel.
I am glad you agree if just three or four of these nations get the "BOMB" it will result in dozens if not hundred of them detonated in places like Damascus, Cairo, Istanbul, Tel Aviv, Mecca, Medina and other places.
I am glad you agree that every country in the UN should recognize Israel immediately and began multi-lateral negations with her.
I am glad you agree that Israel and Palestine should stand together as two independent proud nations.
I am glad you agree that terrorism is evil in all forms as it intentionally murders civilians.
Since you never answer those arguments that I have presented to you time and again I just realized you were agreeing with me all the time and thought it was unnecessary to answer them since we were in absolute agreement. Dumb Me! Not to realize your agreement with me all the time.
By the ways those who had "slimy love" for the Jews in WWII paid with their lives in most cases and are called "Righteous Gentiles" by the survivors of the Holocaust.
by
pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 962 comments)
on Friday, May 25, 2007 at 11:28:43 AM
from all this bickering, which I ( sorry) had started. I should have known better. I am not a dollar to satisfy everybody and neither are you. I consider that I belong to whoever I want to belong and as a Jew with certain Jewish experience I can, of course, say something for the Jews. I love Jews. But this is all very unfortunate. OK, we both can sit on our hills and throw pumpkinseed at each other and hope it worth it. But it is no use. This is a big world and we most likely will never meet. That is to the best; at least I am not a moslem cleric anymore per your new definitions:)
by
Mark Sashine (51 articles, 19 quicklinks, 244 diaries, 3463 comments)
on Friday, May 25, 2007 at 12:34:33 PM
