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March 12, 2008 at 06:30:53
Elliot Spitzer and America's Ethical Perversity by Rabbi Michael Lerner Page 1 of 1 page(s) |
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Going to a prostitute is legal in some states and some countries around the world, and is often the very arrangement that saves families from splitting up whose sexual energies have diminished but whose love is intact. It's not uncommon for men (and now increasingly women as well) who have achieved great power in our society by adopting an outer show of ruthless pursuit of power and influence (even, as in Spitzer's case, if the power is aimed at pursuing laudable ends) to feel a deep emptiness and loneliness that is not addressed by friends or spouse, and hence to seek some kind of outside connection no matter how superficial that is not bound by previous rules and roles. Nevertheless, I and many others in the religious and spiritual world oppose that practice when it involves adultery or prostitution, because it depends on the objectification of another human being, so that sex is disconnected in ways that it should not be from a significant encounter with the spirit of God in the other or a deep recognition that is the only real way to overcome existential or situational alienation.
Moreover, the trade in women for sexual purposes has frequently led to rape and abuse and the kidnapping of young women who are sold into sexual slavery. All of these outrageous practices are abhorrent and should be challenged. The flaunting of sexuality in the media, and the implicit message that the only real satisfaction comes from having the most physically attractive people as sexual partners, not only generates huge dissatisfaction even as it allows corporate advertise to become predators manipulating our personal sense of inadequacy to sell their products, but also generates desires that feed the sexual trade in women. Given this larger social context, until sexual satisfaction is so broadly available in our society that no one has to pay for it and so deeply tied to love that no one is objectified in the process, this kind of exploitation of women and degradation of sex is likely to continue. All of these practices foster the sexual predators of the contemporary world.
So Elliot Spitzer deserves to be critiqued and ought to be doing deep atonement for what he did. His previous moral arrogance and willingness when he had power to do so to prosecute others for their participation in creating prostitution rings makes him an easy target. We, in turn, might practice the forgiveness that our religious and spiritual traditions preach, particularly those of us who have been willing to honeslty face how flawed we ourselves are, and how at times we ourselves fail to embody in our actual practice with others the values that we publicly espouse. Humility and compassion are also part of the path of a spiritual progressive.
But the intensity of the critique of the N.Y. governor, tied with the demand that he resign, shows more about American society's ethical perversity than about Spitzer.
The President of the U.S. and the Vice President, working in concert with several other high ranking officers of our government, lied and distorted to get us involved in a war that has led to the death of over a million Iraqis, the displacement of 3 million more, the death of 4,000 Americans and the wounding of tens of thousands more. After token opposition in Congress, our elected representatives have overwhelmingly passed budgets funding this war, rather than refuse to fund any military projects until the President stopped the war and withdrew the troops.
Meanwhile, our government has overtly engaged in torture, wiretapping of our phones, and violation of our human rights and the rights of people around the world. Senator Diane Feinstein and Senator Charles Schumer votes to confirm as Attonrey General a right-wing judge who refused to repudiate these crimes.
The U.S. government has rejected every attempt to implement the Kyoto environmental agreements or to work out new agreements sufficiently strong to reverse environmental destruction that is certain to lead to new levels of flooding particularly in several poor countries around the world. The consequence: tens of millions of deaths.
The Clinton Administration pushed, along with corporate support, a set of trade agreements that have devastated the farmers of many developing countries, forcing many off their farms and into city slums where their daughters and sons are often sold into sexual slavery. The global economic system we have fostered has led to increasing gaps between the rich and the poor, so that over one out of every three people on the planet lives on less than $2 a day, 1.5 billion live on less than one dollar a day, and over 15,000 children die every day from malnutrition-related diseases and inadequate availability of medicine that is hoarded by the rich countries who can afford the prices made to ensure huge profits to the pharmaceutical industry.
Health insurance companies and private medical profiteers are doing all they can to ensure that there will be no health care for tens of millions of Americans, unless that is provided in ways that guarantee corporate super-profits and thereby guarantee that the cost of health care paid through taxes will be huge and create anger at all government social welfare and well-being programs, leading to their likely de-funding.
People in the US have faced severe economic crises on a regional and soon on a national level because corporations move their centers of production to countries in Asia where they can exploit workers with less government or union interference and where they can destroy the environment with less societal restraints. Wild to achieve greater profits, corporations and the rich have managed to support politicians who lower the taxes on the rich, in the process bankrupting the public sector or severely reducing its ability to provide enough funds for quality education, health care, libraries, public transportation, and social welfare.
That there is no outcry for these government officials and corporate leaders to resign immediately or be impeached, that there is no moral outrage at the entire system that produces this impact, is America's ethical perversity. Instead, the only crime against humanity that the media takes seriously and the politicians fear is being exposed for personal sexual immorality. While everyone basks in their own self-righteous demands on Spitzer, we all allow media and elected officials to fundamentally distort our ethical vision and play out our morality on the smallest of possible stages while ignoring the global and personal consequences of our larger ethical failures.
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Christianity
With the arrogance of a 'Christian Nation' what other result can we expect? Sexual morality is a Christians hot button, but repudiation of human sensuality in their beliefs sure brings them to grief again and again. I find it interesting and amusing that Democrats generally get in trouble for sex with women, Republicans for sex with men and little boys. Good Christians all though.....for a few hours each Sunday anyway. To me, this is the result of an ideology 'made up' at a convention who's purpose was a better way for an Emperor to control his subjects. Conventions have had booze and hookers ever since. by Roger (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 465 comments [22 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 9:12:01 AM  (0+)
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Bravo, Rabbie!
I am not much of a fan of Rabbie Lerner but here he is terrific. I just cannot agree more. by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [130 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 9:24:36 AM (0+)
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Bravo! And thank you, Rabbi Lerner
Hello everybody I am so grateful for this, Rabbi Lerner. I have often been irked and much worse by the superficial "morality" which shuns and judges our humanness while allowing mass murder rings to go unchecked. We studiously talk like Victorians in the tea parlor over our spectacles, about the "reason" why Bush went to war...."It's his Daddy's war and he has to finish it" "he's only a puppet" etc....all while people are writhing on the ground. It's so easy for us to be studious and scientific from afar. And we don't hold the culprit accountable. I say if it even is true that Bush is "only" a puppet----in a mass murder ring----then hold the guy who is "only" a puppet accountable. It doesn't matter whether or not someone is a ring leader: It matters only what they actually do. And accountability is everything here. Puppets are doing their thing as much as ringleaders are. Tell me, please: Is going to war based on a lie a pre-meditated act, or not? Don't talk to me about puppetry, please. The National Enquirer-type mentality that judges and has a broo-ha-ha over somebody's sexuality is self-righteous and ugly. I think the fact that the Catholic church touts celibacy (priests,nuns et al) and shuns sexuality (ditto) should be a wake-up call to all of us: Look at the molestation of young children by priests. Celibates! It ain't natural to be without our human sexuality----the key word is human----and those who judge others are themselves in practice of that same illusion of "moral" spiritual purity. Only God is pure. This so-called "purity" is illusion. I much more celebrate the Jewish religion for actually consecrating the sex act between two committed, married people as a sacred act, actually to be encouraged as holy especially on the Sabbath. Ye shall know the tree by its fruits, said the Christ who, after all, though not hailed as the Messiah in Jewish tradition, also is hailed as a great saint in that same tradition. Words of the wise (Christ). Comparing the fruits of objectification of a person to mass murder, what say ye is the worse of the two sins? by Kathryn Smith (110 articles, 2 quicklinks, 43 diaries, 542 comments [23 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 9:32:17 AM (0+)
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A Good Discussion
Although I agree with many of the rabbi's points in the article, there is still the issue of obedience to the rule of law. Prostitution is not legal in Washington, D.C., or many of the union states and an elected official of one of the states (where prostitution is not legal) committed a crime in our nation's capital city (where it is also not legal). We either have "the Rule of Law" or there are no rules at all! Clearly, prositution is supposedly the oldest profession, politics is likely the second oldest, and they are both closely related. Our republic is supposed to be based on the rule of law and those who we have elected to official positions must at least live to the standards that they enforce against those who they serve. by Sean Freeman (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 12:22:21 PM (0+)
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Reply: I disagree. False Dilemma...
I love the false dilemma we so often see on the internet proposed by some who claim that if we allow any minute transgression against any law, all law somehow becomes meaningless. Ever taken a look at the highways recently? What percentage of drivers adhere to the speed limit? Are those people on the road to committing capital crimes? There have been bad laws for as long as there have been humans in existence and people of conscience have chosen to disregard those laws while continuing to observe the rest. While this particular law might not be disregarded so much out of principle, it is a bad law nonetheless. by Steven Leser (255 articles, 58 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 2147 comments [63 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 12:45:30 PM (0+)
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Reply: If you don't like the law, do SOMETHING to change it!
There are many people who disregard "bad laws" and it's only when they get caught that they get punished. I too believe that prostitution laws, like drug laws are bad as they invade the rights of a free people to choose their courses of action in life as long as they do not cause harm to another or anothers property. That said however, he was caught violating a law. He is the chief executive of a "state" that has the same laws. How hypocritical to think that his violation should be ignored while law enforcement officers in the city are likely arresting hundreds of "average" people per day, potentially ruining their lives, while he is guilty of the same violations. "Bad Laws" can only be changed by the actions of the true government, the people. As exemplified by the failure of our congress to overturn Bushie's veto of the torture prevention bill, we are to blame! We continue to re-elect the same constitution-violating "representatives" and "executives" and they continue to appoint constitution-violating "judges" and "attorneys". This is what we've all allowed to continue for nigh-on 100 years. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. by Sean Freeman (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 4:40:30 PM (0+)
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Reply: Which has nothing to do with the main thrust of my comment..
My comment was pointing out the fact that you offered a false dilemma. You suggested that we have to either obey every single law to the letter or this ceases to become a nation of laws. As I said, the speed limit law is just one small example of this. People often park where they are not supposed to park. People cut corners on their taxes, etc. A secondary argument is that as far as I am concerned, any laws against two adults having consensual sex are unconstitutional. The pursuit of happiness is absolutely a component of the constitution as described here in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_liberty_and_the_pursuit_of_happiness Supreme Court justices have referred to it in at least two opinions. Marrying a consenting adult of your choice and having sex with another consenting adult of your choice is about as basic about pursuing happiness as you can get. Thus, your comment about me needing to change the law is constitutionally incorrect. by Steven Leser (255 articles, 58 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 2147 comments [63 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:18:13 PM (0+)
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Reply: Pardon my Idealism!
I completely agree that unconstitutional laws can and should be ignored as they clearly are in violation of the Supreme Law of the Constitution. However, as a realist, it needs to be understood that being caught for "violating" an existing "law", no matter how wrong that "law" is, will likely result in punishment. Our "representatives" have, at best, callous disregard for the US Constitution and our court system is so hopelessly flawed that justice, pursuant to our supreme law, cannot be found in today's world. As an example, assess Bob Schultz's petiton to the USSC and their denial of a writ to hear an unprecedented First Amendment complaint. The USSC, by their denial to hear, upholds the decision by the lower courts that our servant government has no compelling need to reply to a petition for redress of grievance from the sovereign people. It is OUTRAGEOUS to consider that the servant can state that they can refuse to answer the master! A request from the sovereign is a command to the servant. The title of Andrew Napolitano's latest book is so telling as we are truly "A Nation of Sheep". I am all for attacking each and every elected servant to live by the very laws they write or enforce as harshly as possible. Only that might persuade them to revisit the concepts that were the foundation of this republic. by Sean Freeman (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:08:17 AM (0+)
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Reply: UNJUST LAWS SHOULD BE DISOBEYED
Unjust laws should be disobeyed. And that is true whether the unjust law forbids you to hide a fugitive save or interferes in your private decisions about which drugs to ingest. If a person of either sex freely choses to sell sexual access to them and another person of either sex choses to buy that access, it should be no business of the law. And no business of morality either if all parties freely consent. by rhalfhill (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 325 comments) on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 at 1:59:05 AM (0+)
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Reply: UNJUST LAWS SHOULD BE DISOBEYED
Unjust laws should be disobeyed. And that is true whether the unjust law forbids you to hide a fugitive save or interferes in your private decisions about which drugs to ingest. If a person of either sex freely choses to sell sexual access to them and another person of either sex choses to buy that access, it should be no business of the law. And no business of morality either if all parties freely consent. by rhalfhill (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 325 comments) on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 at 1:59:11 AM (0+)
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A little more
Our ' corageous' MSM has its day in full swing on Spitzer down to Leno and that another comedian guy. And that has nothing to do with legality or illegality of what Spitzer had done; it has a lot to do with a cultured vulturism whether it is Britney Spears or Spitzer. Now, these vultures suddenly forget their appetite when it comes to touching of the ones who are untouchable. Imagine a headline,'Cheney kills 400 birds and then wounds a man. is he mad?' Hey, if our MSM had treated ALL THE SAME, I would be the first to gloat on Spitzer. But they don't. So we see that. And we warn. by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [130 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 1:11:05 PM (0+)
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I figured I would read comments like this...
The cross-the-political-spectrum attacks on Elliot Spitzer and the intensity of the demands that he resign his office show just how far the Right-wing sexual moralizing has been able to trump any other kind of ethical reasoning in American society. Any other kind of Ethical reasoning? HELLO??? We have the most corrupt politicians in history operating in the DC Beltway, and NOW, we have a man who kept jumping up and down on the public stage as the "ANTI-CORRUPT" politician. by steve scheetz (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 829 comments [52 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 1:33:29 PM (0+)
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Reply: No
It is not OK to have sex with the prostitute no matter what. But we are not talking here about the actual fact. We are talking here about treating the same kind of abominations the same way. It is not OK to solicit a prostitute when pretending to be another Elliott Ness? Sure. How about is it OK to go kill 400 birds with your drunk cronies and then, next time nearly kill a man while being a VP of this country? That's OK? And I am not talking about legal system. I am talking about the way it is presented in the media. Hey, what if gov. Spitzer produces a medical record that he is an impotent? Then what, our mSM would retract those corny jokes? Hardly? I am sure they would gloat on that too. But Cheney can kill whoever he wants- no biggie. Not a story. That's the problem. The way the dogs are unleashed selectively. The way people are destroyed. The way we live. by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [130 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 1:42:52 PM (0+)
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Reply: I agree Mark
but I would like to add that Spitzer was doing a great job in cleaning up the corrupt deadlock mess that is New York politics where nothing has been accomplished in decades. The sad part is that his biggest rival will now assume the authority of Lt. Governor effectively ending the tie breaking vote in the state senate, enabling the continuation of the most enept state legislature in the nation. by Michael Shaw (12 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 439 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 at 11:31:43 AM (0+)
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it is nice to hear reasoned thought...
the intensity of the critique of the N.Y. governor, tied with the demand that he resign, shows more about American society's ethical perversity than about Spitzer Thank you for your nail on the head. I have read posts on other articles re:Spitzer that attempt to make this a rule of law argument. I cannot argue that point. Prostitution is illegal in this case. However............. ............Your reasoned thoughts are appreciated greatly. As I said on another comment, I could care less who was caught. This is between him, his wife, his family and as he deems, his god. We have no businees here. Until we understand what this is about, we will forever end up in this mess we've made for ourselves. Your comment in italics above says it all. peace by mikel paul (14 articles, 1 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 570 comments [13 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 1:58:30 PM (0+)
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The stupidity of this act boggles my mind.
After a career of busting organized crime who would think that a HO (don’t know if she was a nappyheadedho or not) who probably works for organized crime would finger the governor in a sex sting. I believe that prostitution is an issue that should be controlled but legal. Just like marijuana. These are vices not crimes and should be treated thusly. By being illegal they only encourage organized crime to move in and take the profit in these highly profitable enterprises. Like a lot of the comments from the right the hypocrisy is running rampant. Spitzer should have kept his “Dick Cheney” in his pants and honored the commitment he made to his wife, and I think he should resign, but the republican cry for impeachment while the Commander and Thief and his trained pit bull Cheney are still is in the White House. WTF!!!! by Michael Chavers (53 articles, 0 quicklinks, 15 diaries, 198 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 3:22:27 PM (0+)
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You make my point!
How about is it OK to go kill 400 birds with your drunk cronies and then, next time nearly kill a man while being a VP of this country? That's OK? No, it is NOT OK!! However, we are not talking about that right now, and I am just stating that it is NOT OK to suggest that our country is out of its mind to be going after Spitzer because there are so many other issues wrong in the US... I am simply suggesting that if we don't like what is going on then we need to do something to point out how bad other things are, rather then complain about how we are going after something that is bad... I mean this thread makes zero sense to me... anyone else feel that way? Ciao, CZ by steve scheetz (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 829 comments [52 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 3:28:08 PM (0+)
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Reply: IT'S BECAUSE IT SHOULD NOT BE ILLEGAL
No, I am not saying it is allright for Elliot Spitzer to patronize a prostitute because Bush vetoed a bill outlawing water boading, etc. I am saying it was allright because there was nothing wrong with it and it should be no cooncern of either law or morality. And the other relevant argument is that oppressive governments also selectively prosecute for law violations, prosecuting those they want to eliminate and not prosecuting those they don't want to get. In such circumstances, it is not okay to hypocritically say that A doing x cannot be excused because B did x and was not prosecuted. Instead, anyone who is not a pious hypocrite will immediately demand that the government be consistent by prosecuting both A and B if what they did was justly proscribed by law or prosecute neither if what they did was something that should not be a crime. by rhalfhill (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 325 comments) on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 at 2:30:45 AM (0+)
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Sound Familiar?
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. 24 “You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 4:27:59 PM (0+)
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Rabbi Lerner's article
The premise that we ignore far worse evils than promiscuity by focusing on such scandals and forgetting the rest that are infinitely worse is right on the mark. We let the corporatocracy get away with infinitely more than a bit of infidelity. Let? Can we do otherwise? That's a good question. That leads to "Is democracy dead or alive?" But I plunge into infinite despair when I read such false generalities as "That there is no outcry for these government officials and corporate leaders to resign immediately or be impeached, that there is no moral outrage at the entire system that produces this impact, is America's ethical perversity." Rabbi, please read some of the other articles published at opednews.com. We progressives have been screaming and howling about this since time immemorial. Progressives and other ethical dissenters anyway. Marta Steele by Marta Steele (44 articles, 0 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 48 comments) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 8:49:18 PM (0+)
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I agree wholeheartedly Rabbi
In a nation where recent polls suggest 41% of the nation's population support the idea of water boarding, this holier than thou nonsense is simply that. Judge not lest ye yourself be judged. Furthermore the investigation into Spitzers affair seem rather unusual. But then again when it comes to the justice system under Bush, we're dealing with a stacked deck where only one out of every seven ethics investigations are aimed at republicans. Spitzer stepped on a lot of toes. I see this as nothing short of political retribution from a party that hasn't any ethics whatsoever. by Michael Shaw (12 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 439 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:10:41 PM (0+)
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Reply: I'd like to ad a little more
This comes from courtesy of Democracy Now: WAYNE BARRETT: Well, he could be charged under the Mann Act, because he paid for the transportation of this woman from New York to D.C. for the liaison that you referred to at the top of the show, so that’s a Mann Act violation. That’s a 1910 law. Very few prosecutions under that law have occurred in recent decades, but theoretically that’s what they were investigating. JUAN GONZALEZ: And it’s rarely—even more rarely against someone who’s a client, rather than an actual organizer of the ring. WAYNE BARRETT: Right. And it’s—now, what they are talking about a great deal now is structuring, which is the attempt, on his part apparently, to conceal the payments that he was making to the prostitution ring, and the structuring allegation is based on whether or not he was trying to remain under the $10,000 threshold—a transaction with a bank that involves a withdrawal of more than $10,000 is supposed to be reported to the government—and whether or not he was avoiding that. The irony really—and, of course, there’s so much about this case that we don’t understand. It was made extremely quickly by a United States attorney’s office. JUAN GONZALEZ: That’s what I wanted to ask you. As somebody who has covered a lot of federal investigations, this is an astonishingly rapid progress. WAYNE BARRETT: Well, Juan, not only that, I mean, they had wires on two phones. And they had a warrant approved by the court for those wires that would have extended, in one case, for almost another full month. And they brought the case down when they had wires on these lines. They wanted one man, they wanted one man only. Maybe too many rich guys were walking through the—you know, coming through on the same wires. Whatever the reason is, they brought these wires down almost instantly, as soon as they closed the deal on Eliot. And so, I find it to be a very peculiar investigation. by Michael Shaw (12 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 439 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:25:29 PM (0+)
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Hypocracy
When AG Spitzer was nailing those Wall Street golden-parachute ripoff artists, I could only applaud. His appearance on Jon Stewart's Daily Show was very amusing. The "Sheriff of Wall ST;" "Eliot Ness;" "Mr. Clean?" He even nailed some minor league hookers/clients during his law days which just makes the hypocracy of it all even more stunning. As some psychologists have observed, when humans achieve the political/power levels of Gov., Sen., VP, President, they of necessity have outsized egos that apparently convince many, like Nixon, that whatever they do, because of their position, it is legal. Well, guess what guy's? It's not! As amusing as the late night comics make the specter of the Idaho Sen.'s encounter with the Minneapolis cop in a toilet, I, for one, have no desire to gloat just because he's Republican. But by the same token, I'm aghast at the hubris, arrogance Spitzer has demonstrated. C'mon, people, get a grip! by L. RETZACK (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 41 comments) on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:25:56 PM (0+)
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Reply: Character Assassination/ Smear Campaign
Elliot Spitzer's demise had nothing to do with sex. Problem with him, as was the case with Bill Clinton, was honesty and integrity. Sex scandal is the cheapest and the meanest way of doing in an opponent in political circus/circles. Any and all of of them in politics have some sort of sex 'scandal' hanging around their necks til the day it becomes the hangman's noose. But not for sex crime. Mutual consent is never a crime. by ramsheyi (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 793 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 at 7:32:22 AM (0+)
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Reply: Aghast at this?
What about the loss of civil liberty, the killing of thousands in a war based on false pretense, the stacking of the courts and the complete rip-off of government, waterboarding etc. etc. etc. And why was only Spitzer targeted when many other well to doers, including British royalty are allowed to walk scot free? If you want to nail Spitzer fine! But also nail everyone else involved, not just him. To do otherwise would make it look exactly as it does, a political targetting on one guy and a complete coverup for the rest. by Michael Shaw (12 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 439 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 at 11:24:26 AM (0+)
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Nothing wrong with hiring a prostitute...
if you're in Nevada, or the Netherlands. And, in my belief, if a woman (or man) freely chooses to sell sex/and/or companionship there is nothing wrong with that, or with buying it if you have the need--I don't. Some prostitutes are the best counselors for lonely, unattractive men. This is a good opportunity to debate a change in the law: New York should de-criminalize prostitution, and regulate it to protect the health of its workers and clientele. What's astounding is Spitzer's hypocrisy, since he led prosecution against other prostitution rings and loudly proclaimed his own rectitude. Further astounding is Spitzer's stupidity: he knew better than practically anyone--having used and helped set up the machinery--how easily someone could be picked up on a wiretap, especially if they were a high-profile politician. If you read the NYr profile on Spitzer months ago, you would have come away with the feeling that something was a bit off about him: he came across as the epitome of the driven, repressed male, maybe even OCD. He can't even wear blue shirts (only white), and is uncomfortable when someone tells a dirty joke. Spitzer was elected with a mandate to "clean up" New York. His whole political career was built on his squeaky-clean persona. His major failing before was that he was, as he liked to describe himself, "a steamroller." Well, steamrollers don't make friends, and he didn't; he made enemies. So it was inevitable that when a failing of this magnitude hit the air-waves, he had nowhere to go but OUT. True, the Assembly Republicans began talking impeachment, but they are in a permanent minority. A lot of the talk was grandstanding. Even without it, Eliott would not have been able to accomplish anything if he stayed, because, through his own persistent and determined stupidity ($80,000 worth of prostitutes was a long-term commitment, not just a one time thing), he has lost all credibility. I agree, however, that the quick talk of impeachment for this stupidity is in glaring contrast to the Democrats in Congress, whose timidity on Bush-Cheney high crimes just becomes that much more marked. I hope, that besides our getting our first black and blind governor, the outcome of this could be added impetus to impeach Dick Cheney, and W, as well. by Douglas Smyth (27 articles, 5 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 90 comments [7 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:44:13 AM (0+)
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Reply: Well Douglas
it's like the drug wars. The system creates the victims yet never addresses the real problems. If prostitution were legal it would be a safer and healthier environment for both the client and the provider. It would not only provide healthcare and health screenings, but tax dollars too. Same with drugs. The stigma is in that you are not allowed to have them. If you were, that stigma would wear off, or at the very least be regulated by the FDA the same way alcohol(a drug) is. Look at the mess of prohibition! In the end the results are always the same and the truth is whether legal or not, there will always be a small group amongst us who abuse substances. So you tax it and you use those tax dollars to rehabilitate and to educate. The biggest addiction we have to break is the addiction of the criminal justice system itself that feeds off of our tax dollars and makes criminals out of those who wouldn't have been otherwise. Like everything else in America if there isn't a profit in it for certain corporations and individuals then it isn't viable. The justice system is a big business, plain and simple. They care not about the victims beyond creating enough of them to keep their slick profit making scheme running. The more criminals they make the more money. by Michael Shaw (12 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 439 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 at 11:58:57 AM (0+)
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Speculaors w/Put Options On Ehtical Perversity Projections?
What are "we" doing here? Besides "the press" having already played judge and jury on this, even before an actual charge has been made, the comments are all chiming in on that same wave length. Personally, I think SOMEthing really SMELLS here! Did any of you notice somewhere along the line that though they had Spitzer's hotel room staked out, NObody showed up?! That's right, no woman was seen either coming TO Spitzer's room nor leaving, nor meeting with him elsewhere, so what do they REALLY have here? What are they pulling? Did you watch his wife as she stood there? We have seen a few of these situations going by on our television screens, and plenty of each since the broadcasters so love to amp that up, to play and replay again and again those scenes with the wife standing by.... This lady was not appearing chagrined, disgusted, ashamed, embarrassed, piqued, nor personally betrayed behind a 'putting on a brave face' for the cameras. She didn't look like she appreciated the situation, while yet she quite lovingly appreciated HIM. So, what does she know about this whole thing that we haven't heard or considered? What kind of set up IS this??? (-:G by G Achin (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 110 comments [9 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 at 10:16:42 AM (0+)
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Very good article
Rabbi, your article was great! Stirling by Lord Stirling (26 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 151 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 at 1:13:46 PM (0+)
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