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March 12, 2008 at 06:30:53

Headlined on 3/12/08:
Elliot Spitzer and America's Ethical Perversity

by Rabbi Michael Lerner     Page 1 of 1 page(s)

http://www.opednews.com


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  The cross-the-political-spectrum attacks on Elliot Spitzer and the intensity of the demands that he resign his office show just how far the  Right-wing sexual moralizing has been able to trump any other kind of ethical reasoning in American society.
 
 Going to a prostitute is legal in some states and some countries around the world, and is often the very arrangement that saves families from splitting up whose sexual energies have diminished but whose love is intact. It's not uncommon for men (and now increasingly women as well) who have achieved great power in our society by adopting an outer show of ruthless pursuit of power and influence (even, as in Spitzer's case, if the power is aimed at pursuing laudable ends) to feel a deep  emptiness and loneliness that is not addressed by friends or spouse, and hence to seek some kind of outside connection no matter how superficial that is not bound by previous rules and roles. Nevertheless, I and many others in the religious and spiritual world oppose that practice when it involves adultery or prostitution, because it depends on the objectification of another human being, so that sex is disconnected in ways that it should not be from a significant encounter with the spirit of God in the other or a deep recognition that is the only real way to overcome existential or situational alienation.
 
 Moreover, the trade in women for sexual purposes has frequently led to rape and abuse and the kidnapping of young women who are sold into sexual slavery. All of these outrageous practices are abhorrent and should be challenged. The flaunting of sexuality in the media, and the implicit message that the only real satisfaction comes from having the most physically attractive people as sexual partners, not only generates huge dissatisfaction even as it allows corporate advertise to become predators manipulating our personal sense of inadequacy to sell their products, but also generates desires that feed the sexual trade in women. Given this larger social context, until sexual satisfaction is so broadly available in our society that no one has to pay for it and so deeply tied to love that no one is objectified in the process, this kind of exploitation of women and degradation of sex is likely to continue. All of these practices foster the sexual predators of the contemporary world.
 
 So Elliot Spitzer deserves to be critiqued and ought to be doing deep atonement for what he did.  His previous moral arrogance and willingness when he had power to do so to prosecute others for their participation in creating prostitution rings makes him an easy target. We, in turn, might practice the forgiveness that our religious and spiritual traditions preach, particularly those of us who have been willing to honeslty face how flawed we ourselves are, and how at times we ourselves fail to embody in our actual practice with others the values that we publicly espouse. Humility and compassion are also part of the path of a spiritual progressive.
 
 But the intensity of the critique of the N.Y. governor, tied with the demand that he resign, shows more about American society's ethical perversity than about Spitzer.
 
 The President of the U.S. and the Vice President, working in concert with several other high ranking officers of our government, lied and distorted to get us involved in a war that has led to the death of over a million Iraqis, the displacement of 3 million more, the death of 4,000 Americans and the wounding of tens of thousands more. After token opposition in Congress, our elected representatives have overwhelmingly passed budgets funding this war, rather than refuse to fund any military projects until the President stopped the war and withdrew the troops.
 
 Meanwhile, our government has overtly engaged in torture, wiretapping of our phones, and violation of our human rights and the rights of people around the world. Senator Diane Feinstein and Senator Charles Schumer votes to confirm as Attonrey General a right-wing judge who refused to repudiate these crimes.
 
 The U.S. government has rejected every attempt to implement the Kyoto environmental agreements or to work out new agreements sufficiently strong to reverse environmental destruction that is certain to lead to new levels of flooding particularly in several poor countries around the world. The consequence: tens of millions of deaths.
 
 The Clinton Administration pushed, along with corporate support, a set of trade agreements that have devastated the farmers of many developing countries, forcing many off their farms and into city slums where their daughters and sons are often sold into sexual slavery.  The global economic system we have fostered has led to increasing gaps between the rich and the poor, so that over one out of every three people on the planet lives on less than $2 a day, 1.5 billion live on less than one dollar a day, and over 15,000 children die every day from malnutrition-related diseases and inadequate availability of medicine that is hoarded by the rich countries who can afford the prices made to ensure huge profits to the pharmaceutical industry.
 
 Health insurance companies and private medical profiteers are doing all they can to ensure that there will be no health care for tens of millions of Americans, unless that is provided in ways that guarantee corporate super-profits and thereby guarantee that the cost of health care paid through taxes will be huge and create anger at all government social welfare and well-being programs, leading to their likely de-funding.
People in the US have faced severe economic crises on a regional and soon on a national level because corporations move their centers of production to countries in Asia where they can exploit workers with less government or union interference and where they can destroy the environment with less societal restraints. Wild to achieve greater profits, corporations and the rich have managed to support politicians who lower the taxes on the rich, in the process bankrupting the public sector or severely reducing its ability to provide enough funds for quality education, health care, libraries, public transportation, and social welfare.
 
 That there is no outcry for these government officials and corporate leaders to resign immediately or be impeached, that there is no moral outrage at the entire system that produces this impact, is America's ethical perversity. Instead, the only crime against humanity that the media takes seriously and the politicians fear is being exposed for personal sexual immorality. While everyone basks in their own self-righteous demands on Spitzer, we all allow media and elected officials to fundamentally distort our ethical vision and play out our morality on the smallest of possible stages while ignoring the global and personal consequences of our larger ethical failures.

 

http://www.tikkun.org

Rabbi Michael Lerner is editor of Tikkun and national chair of the Tikkun Community/ Network of Spiritual Progressives. People are invited to subscribe to Tikkun magazine or join the interfaith organization the Network of Spiritual Progressives-- "both of which can be done by going to www.tikkun.org

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29 comments

I'm a 61year old white guy, Veteran of 66-68, operate my own business with my wife and love to travel. Built a big sailboat in the 70's and went sailing for a few years, which ruined me for real work. Now, I fly hot air balloons for a living. Have been initiated as an Andean Paq'o. Yes, I am a liberal.
RogerI'm a 61year old white guy, Veteran of 66-68, operate my own business with my wife and love to travel. Built a big sailboat in the 70's and went sailing for a few years, which ruined me for real work. Now, I fly hot air balloons for a living. Have been initiated as an Andean Paq'o. Yes, I am a liberal.

Christianity

With the arrogance of a 'Christian Nation' what other result can we expect?  Sexual morality is a Christians hot button, but repudiation of human sensuality in their beliefs sure brings them to grief again and again.  I find it interesting and amusing that Democrats generally get in trouble for sex with women, Republicans for sex with men and little boys.   Good Christians all though.....for a few hours each Sunday anyway.  To me, this is the result of an ideology 'made up' at a convention who's purpose was a better way for an Emperor to control his subjects.  Conventions have had booze and hookers ever since.

by Roger (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 235 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 9:12:01 AM
 


Mark Sashine is an engineer and a writer. Working hard in trying to love and understand the new country he has to live in.
Mark SashineMark Sashine is an engineer and a writer. Working hard in trying to love and understand the new country he has to live in.

Bravo, Rabbie!

I am not much of a fan of Rabbie Lerner but here he  is terrific.  I  just cannot agree more.

by Mark Sashine (38 articles, 19 quicklinks, 221 diaries, 3085 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 9:24:36 AM
 


This quote summarizes the nature of my concerns and the content of personal experiences which stir my activism:

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement on human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves". --Paul Revere, House of Commons

Kathryn SmithThis quote summarizes the nature of my concerns and the content of personal experiences which stir my activism:

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement on human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves". --Paul Revere, House of Commons

Bravo! And thank you, Rabbi Lerner

Hello everybody

I am so grateful for this, Rabbi Lerner. I have often been irked and much worse by the superficial "morality" which shuns and judges our humanness while allowing mass murder rings to go unchecked.

We studiously talk like Victorians in the tea parlor over our spectacles, about the "reason" why Bush went to war...."It's his Daddy's war and he has to finish it" "he's only a puppet" etc....all while people are writhing on the ground. It's so easy for us to be studious and scientific from afar. And  we don't hold the culprit accountable.

 I say if it even is true that Bush is "only" a puppet----in a mass murder ring----then hold the guy who is "only" a puppet accountable. It doesn't matter whether or not someone is a ring leader: It matters only what they actually do. And accountability is everything here. Puppets are doing their thing as much as ringleaders are.

Tell me, please: Is going to war based on a lie a pre-meditated act, or not? Don't talk to me about puppetry, please.

The National Enquirer-type mentality that judges and has a broo-ha-ha over somebody's sexuality is self-righteous and ugly. I think the fact that the Catholic church touts celibacy (priests,nuns et al) and shuns sexuality (ditto) should be a wake-up call to all of us: Look at the molestation of young children by priests. Celibates! It ain't natural to be without our human sexuality----the key word is human----and those who judge others are themselves in practice of  that same illusion of "moral" spiritual purity. Only God is pure.

What's so immoral about sex anyway? Only when as you so beautifully say, MIchael Lerner, that we become objects instead of humans with a divine essence, which is met and known deeply in the sexual act, is it divorced from caring and spiritual encounter. That's when it does our soul harm, when we become calloused to the deeper truths and the awareness thereof. Only when it damages kids who are molested, probably for life, being forced into the sex act before they are ready for it, is it immoral. Only when it damages hearts and creates marital rifts is it immoral.

This so-called "purity" is illusion. I much more celebrate the Jewish religion for actually consecrating the sex act between two committed, married people as a sacred act, actually to be encouraged as holy especially on the Sabbath.

Thank you Mr Lerner for bringing us this new perspective about sex as a bridge to the divine within. We all need that awareness. I think given that awareness, then making people into objects as you say will cease. We can't do it when we are in touch with the essence within our own selves and in others. Instead, we simply have to fall in love. We can no longer be casual, insensitive and detached once that inner spirit makes itself felt to us.

Ye shall know the tree by its fruits, said the Christ who, after all, though not hailed as the Messiah in Jewish tradition, also is hailed as a great saint in that same tradition. Words of the wise (Christ). Comparing the fruits of objectification of  a person to mass murder, what say ye is the worse of the two sins?

I say take off your tea parlor spectacles, get empathetic and stop the mass killings and the violations to our human freedom. Then and only then will we be practicing true morality. At least, that's my belief.

by Kathryn Smith (57 articles, 0 quicklinks, 23 diaries, 142 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 9:32:17 AM
 


A veteran of the "Cold War", serving as the missile launch supervisor on ballistic missile submarines through the 1970's. Finished my first degree while on active duty and then went through an electrical engineering major at night school while working for a major aerospace company. Married to the same wonderful woman for the past 27 years and raised two wonderful children.

I love this country and am terribly afraid of where it is heading. The "great experiment" started by our foun...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Sean FreemanA veteran of the "Cold War", serving as the missile launch supervisor on ballistic missile submarines through the 1970's. Finished my first degree while on active duty and then went through an electrical engineering major at night school while working for a major aerospace company. Married to the same wonderful woman for the past 27 years and raised two wonderful children.

I love this country and am terribly afraid of where it is heading. The "great experiment" started by our foun...

to see more of bio, click on member name

A Good Discussion

Although I agree with many of the rabbi's points in the article, there is still the issue of obedience to the rule of law. Prostitution is not legal in Washington, D.C., or many of the union states and an elected official of one of the states (where prostitution is not legal) committed a crime in our nation's capital city (where it is also not legal).

 We either have "the Rule of Law" or there are no rules at all!

Clearly, prositution is supposedly the oldest profession, politics is likely the second oldest, and  they are both closely related.

Our republic is supposed to be based on the rule of law and those who we have elected to official positions must at least live to the standards that they enforce against those who they serve. 

by Sean Freeman (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 11 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 12:22:21 PM
 


Steven Leser specializes in Politics, Science & Health, and Entertainment topics. He has held positions within the Democratic Party including District Chair and Public Relations Chair within county organizations.

Steven Leser writes for www.opednews.com, an internet only media site that has grown to become one of the highest traffic news sites in America, reaching more traffic, according to alexa.com, than all but the thirty largest daily newspapers in the US. Mr. Leser is one of t...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Steven LeserSteven Leser specializes in Politics, Science & Health, and Entertainment topics. He has held positions within the Democratic Party including District Chair and Public Relations Chair within county organizations.

Steven Leser writes for www.opednews.com, an internet only media site that has grown to become one of the highest traffic news sites in America, reaching more traffic, according to alexa.com, than all but the thirty largest daily newspapers in the US. Mr. Leser is one of t...

to see more of bio, click on member name

I disagree. False Dilemma...

I love the false dilemma we so often see on the internet proposed by some who claim that if we allow any minute transgression against any law, all law somehow becomes meaningless.

Ever taken a look at the highways recently? What percentage of drivers adhere to the speed limit? Are those people on the road to committing capital crimes?

There have been bad laws for as long as there have been humans in existence and people of conscience have chosen to disregard those laws while continuing to observe the rest. While this particular law might not be disregarded so much out of principle, it is a bad law nonetheless.

by Steven Leser (178 articles, 29 quicklinks, 30 diaries, 1203 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 12:45:30 PM
 


A veteran of the "Cold War", serving as the missile launch supervisor on ballistic missile submarines through the 1970's. Finished my first degree while on active duty and then went through an electrical engineering major at night school while working for a major aerospace company. Married to the same wonderful woman for the past 27 years and raised two wonderful children.

I love this country and am terribly afraid of where it is heading. The "great experiment" started by our foun...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Sean FreemanA veteran of the "Cold War", serving as the missile launch supervisor on ballistic missile submarines through the 1970's. Finished my first degree while on active duty and then went through an electrical engineering major at night school while working for a major aerospace company. Married to the same wonderful woman for the past 27 years and raised two wonderful children.

I love this country and am terribly afraid of where it is heading. The "great experiment" started by our foun...

to see more of bio, click on member name

If you don't like the law, do SOMETHING to change it!

There are many people who disregard "bad laws" and it's only when they get caught that they get punished.

I too believe that prostitution laws, like drug laws are bad as they invade the rights of a free people to choose their courses of action in life as long as they do not cause harm to another or anothers property.

That said however, he was caught violating a law. He is the chief executive of a "state" that has the same laws. How hypocritical to think that his violation should be ignored while law enforcement officers in the city are likely arresting hundreds of "average" people per day, potentially ruining their lives, while he is guilty of the same violations.

"Bad Laws" can only be changed by the actions of the true government, the people. As exemplified by the failure of our congress to overturn Bushie's veto of the torture prevention bill, we are to blame! We continue to re-elect the same constitution-violating "representatives" and "executives" and they continue to appoint constitution-violating "judges" and "attorneys".

This is what we've all allowed to continue for nigh-on 100 years.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

by Sean Freeman (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 11 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 4:40:30 PM
 


Steven Leser specializes in Politics, Science & Health, and Entertainment topics. He has held positions within the Democratic Party including District Chair and Public Relations Chair within county organizations.

Steven Leser writes for www.opednews.com, an internet only media site that has grown to become one of the highest traffic news sites in America, reaching more traffic, according to alexa.com, than all but the thirty largest daily newspapers in the US. Mr. Leser is one of t...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Steven LeserSteven Leser specializes in Politics, Science & Health, and Entertainment topics. He has held positions within the Democratic Party including District Chair and Public Relations Chair within county organizations.

Steven Leser writes for www.opednews.com, an internet only media site that has grown to become one of the highest traffic news sites in America, reaching more traffic, according to alexa.com, than all but the thirty largest daily newspapers in the US. Mr. Leser is one of t...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Which has nothing to do with the main thrust of my comment..

My comment was pointing out the fact that you offered a false dilemma. You suggested that we have to either obey every single law to the letter or this ceases to become a nation of laws. As I said, the speed limit law is just one small example of this. People often park where they are not supposed to park. People cut corners on their taxes, etc.

A secondary argument is that as far as I am concerned, any laws against two adults having consensual sex are unconstitutional. The pursuit of happiness is absolutely a component of the constitution as described here in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_liberty_and_the_pursuit_of_happiness Supreme Court justices have referred to it in at least two opinions. Marrying a consenting adult of your choice and having sex with another consenting adult of your choice is about as basic about pursuing happiness as you can get.  Thus, your comment about me needing to change the law is constitutionally incorrect.

by Steven Leser (178 articles, 29 quicklinks, 30 diaries, 1203 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 11:18:13 PM
 


A veteran of the "Cold War", serving as the missile launch supervisor on ballistic missile submarines through the 1970's. Finished my first degree while on active duty and then went through an electrical engineering major at night school while working for a major aerospace company. Married to the same wonderful woman for the past 27 years and raised two wonderful children.

I love this country and am terribly afraid of where it is heading. The "great experiment" started by our foun...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Sean FreemanA veteran of the "Cold War", serving as the missile launch supervisor on ballistic missile submarines through the 1970's. Finished my first degree while on active duty and then went through an electrical engineering major at night school while working for a major aerospace company. Married to the same wonderful woman for the past 27 years and raised two wonderful children.

I love this country and am terribly afraid of where it is heading. The "great experiment" started by our foun...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Pardon my Idealism!

I completely agree that unconstitutional laws can and should be ignored as they clearly are in violation of the Supreme Law of the Constitution. However, as a realist, it needs to be understood that being caught for "violating" an existing "law", no matter how wrong that "law" is, will likely result in punishment. Our "representatives" have, at best, callous disregard for the US Constitution and our court system is so hopelessly flawed that justice, pursuant to our supreme law, cannot be found in today's world.

As an example, assess Bob Schultz's petiton to the USSC and their denial of a writ to hear an unprecedented First Amendment complaint. The USSC, by their denial to hear, upholds the decision by the lower courts that our servant government has no compelling need to reply to a petition for redress of grievance from the sovereign people. It is OUTRAGEOUS to consider that the servant can state that they can refuse to answer the master! A request from the sovereign is a command to the servant.

The title of Andrew Napolitano's latest book is so telling as we are truly "A Nation of Sheep".

I am all for attacking each and every elected servant to live by the very laws they write or enforce as harshly as possible. Only that might persuade them to revisit the concepts that were the foundation of this republic. 

by Sean Freeman (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 11 comments) on Thursday, March 13, 2008 at 9:08:17 AM
 


DOB -- September 20, 1940. Became active in civil rights and peace movements in 1962. Active in socialist and antiwar movements -- 1963-69. Active in Gay Liberation from 1969 to present.
rhalfhillDOB -- September 20, 1940. Became active in civil rights and peace movements in 1962. Active in socialist and antiwar movements -- 1963-69. Active in Gay Liberation from 1969 to present.

UNJUST LAWS SHOULD BE DISOBEYED

Unjust laws should be disobeyed.  And that is true whether the unjust law forbids you to hide a fugitive save or interferes in your private decisions about which drugs to ingest.  If a person of either sex freely choses to sell sexual access to them and another person of either sex choses to buy that access, it should be no business of the law.  And no business of morality either  if all parties freely consent.

rhalfhill@juno.com

by rhalfhill (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 227 comments) on Thursday, March 13, 2008 at 1:59:05 AM
 


DOB -- September 20, 1940. Became active in civil rights and peace movements in 1962. Active in socialist and antiwar movements -- 1963-69. Active in Gay Liberation from 1969 to present.
rhalfhillDOB -- September 20, 1940. Became active in civil rights and peace movements in 1962. Active in socialist and antiwar movements -- 1963-69. Active in Gay Liberation from 1969 to present.

UNJUST LAWS SHOULD BE DISOBEYED

Unjust laws should be disobeyed.  And that is true whether the unjust law forbids you to hide a fugitive save or interferes in your private decisions about which drugs to ingest.  If a person of either sex freely choses to sell sexual access to them and another person of either sex choses to buy that access, it should be no business of the law.  And no business of morality either  if all parties freely consent.

rhalfhill@juno.com

by rhalfhill (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 227 comments) on Thursday, March 13, 2008 at 1:59:11 AM
 


Mark Sashine is an engineer and a writer. Working hard in trying to love and understand the new country he has to live in.
Mark SashineMark Sashine is an engineer and a writer. Working hard in trying to love and understand the new country he has to live in.

A little more

Our ' corageous' MSM has its day in full swing on Spitzer down to Leno and  that another comedian guy.  And that has nothing to do with legality or illegality of what  Spitzer had done; it  has a lot to do with a cultured vulturism whether it is Britney Spears or Spitzer. Now, these vultures suddenly forget their appetite when it comes to touching of the ones who are untouchable. Imagine a  headline,'Cheney kills 400  birds and then  wounds a man. is he mad?'  Hey, if our MSM had treated ALL THE SAME, I would be the first to gloat on  Spitzer. But they don't. So we  see that. And we warn.

by Mark Sashine (38 articles, 19 quicklinks, 221 diaries, 3085 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 1:11:05 PM
 


Politically, I lean Libertarian. When discussing issues, I will slam Dems and/or Republicans.

Now, when it comes to really irritating me, just make an unfounded charge; I will clobber whomever makes the charge if there are no facts to back it up! Another version of this is when I see something that is just plainly silly/ridiculous.

An example could be something stated which could be very easily disproved. Another example, and I see this frequently: Rather than...

to see more of bio, click on member name

steve scheetzPolitically, I lean Libertarian. When discussing issues, I will slam Dems and/or Republicans.

Now, when it comes to really irritating me, just make an unfounded charge; I will clobber whomever makes the charge if there are no facts to back it up! Another version of this is when I see something that is just plainly silly/ridiculous.

An example could be something stated which could be very easily disproved. Another example, and I see this frequently: Rather than...

to see more of bio, click on member name

I figured I would read comments like this...

The cross-the-political-spectrum attacks on Elliot Spitzer and the intensity of the demands that he resign his office show just how far the Right-wing sexual moralizing has been able to trump any other kind of ethical reasoning in American society.

 

Any other kind of Ethical reasoning? HELLO??? We have the most corrupt politicians in history operating in the DC Beltway, and NOW, we have a man who kept jumping up and down on the public stage as the "ANTI-CORRUPT" politician.

NOW, we have the scandal demonstrating corruption of the anti corrupt politician, and we have people excusing his behavior by suggesting some ludicrous things...

It is OK for him to have sex with a prostitute because there is no universal health care..

It is OK for him to have sex with a prostitute, because the government lied to get us into Iraq

It is OK for him to have sex with a prostitute, because farmers are poor due to NAFTA

It is OK for him to have sex with a prostitute, because the government is wiretapping us...

It is OK for him to have sex with a prostitute, because the government tortures people...

Well, here we have a corrupt politician who stated that he was incorruptible... I truly am aghast at the concept that this guy should be let off because there are far worse crimes being perpetrated... Here is a thought... Why don't we go after the CORRUPT POLITICIANS who are even more corrupt IN ADDITION to this particular case? You people were OK with the idea of piling onto the latest Republican to go down in a sex scandal... He was the scum of the earth according to everyone for tapping toes with a cop in a bathroom stall somewhere...

Please, Demonstrate some consistency. If it is bad to have sex outside of marriage, then it should be bad across the board. If you hate the fact that there are corrupt politicians doing worse things, then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Stop whining about how this is a miscarriage of justice because there are worse things going on...

Oh, and feel free to bash me proving that you are the only person on the planet that knows the difference between right and wrong... You talk about arrogance?

Ciao, CZ

by steve scheetz (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 320 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 1:33:29 PM
 


Mark Sashine is an engineer and a writer. Working hard in trying to love and understand the new country he has to live in.
Mark SashineMark Sashine is an engineer and a writer. Working hard in trying to love and understand the new country he has to live in.

No

It is not OK to have sex with the prostitute no matter what. But  we are not talking here about the actual fact. We are talking here about treating the same kind of abominations the same way.  It is not OK to solicit a prostitute when pretending to be another Elliott Ness? Sure. How about is it OK to go kill 400 birds with your drunk cronies and then, next time nearly kill a man while being a VP of this country?  That's OK?  And I am not talking about  legal system. I am talking about the way it is presented in the media. Hey, what if gov. Spitzer produces a medical  record that he is  an impotent? Then what, our mSM would retract those corny jokes?  Hardly? I am sure they would gloat on that too. But  Cheney can kill whoever he wants- no biggie. Not a story.

That's the problem. The way the dogs are unleashed selectively. The way  people are destroyed. The way  we live.

by Mark Sashine (38 articles, 19 quicklinks, 221 diaries, 3085 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 1:42:52 PM
 


I'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.
Michael ShawI'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.

I agree Mark

but I would like to add that Spitzer was doing a great job in cleaning up the corrupt deadlock mess that is New York politics where nothing has been accomplished in decades. The sad part is that his biggest rival will now assume the authority of Lt. Governor effectively ending the tie breaking vote in the state senate, enabling the continuation of the most enept state legislature in the nation.

by Michael Shaw (6 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 249 comments) on Thursday, March 13, 2008 at 11:31:43 AM
 


56 years on this jumpin' green sphere. Musician. Own and operate a music store to help kids find a possible life long friend. I believe in the soul and the search. Happily married w/ 2 boys. Published songwriter. play bass, piano and gut string guitar. there are no solutions..only alternatives. Ask questions. Listen. Be fair and don't expect. Baseball is a mirror. Don't ask....unless you have time and a sense of humor. Peace is never easy, but worth it. Always.
mikel paul56 years on this jumpin' green sphere. Musician. Own and operate a music store to help kids find a possible life long friend. I believe in the soul and the search. Happily married w/ 2 boys. Published songwriter. play bass, piano and gut string guitar. there are no solutions..only alternatives. Ask questions. Listen. Be fair and don't expect. Baseball is a mirror. Don't ask....unless you have time and a sense of humor. Peace is never easy, but worth it. Always.

it is nice to hear reasoned thought...

     the intensity of the critique of the N.Y. governor, tied with the demand that he resign, shows more about American society's ethical perversity than about Spitzer

    Thank you for your nail on the head.

    I have read posts on other articles re:Spitzer that attempt to make this a rule of law argument. I cannot argue that point. Prostitution is illegal in this case. However.............

    ............Your reasoned thoughts are appreciated greatly. As I said on another comment, I could care less who was caught. This is between him, his wife, his family and as he deems, his god. We have no businees here. Until we understand what this is about, we will forever end up in this mess we've made for ourselves.

    Your comment in italics above says it all.

    peace

by mikel paul (0 articles, 1 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 254 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 1:58:30 PM
 


I am a Musician, political Junkie, Father, Husband, who cares very much about the United States of America and what is being done to the Ideals and citizens of this great Nation.

I want to restore the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to what the founders of this nation intended to protect us from.

I was born in Niagara Falls, N.Y. and I now reside in Florida. I am tired of the media being manipulated by Faux News and right wing propaganda that leading our Democracy i...

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Michael ChaversI am a Musician, political Junkie, Father, Husband, who cares very much about the United States of America and what is being done to the Ideals and citizens of this great Nation.

I want to restore the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to what the founders of this nation intended to protect us from.

I was born in Niagara Falls, N.Y. and I now reside in Florida. I am tired of the media being manipulated by Faux News and right wing propaganda that leading our Democracy i...

to see more of bio, click on member name

The stupidity of this act boggles my mind.

  After a career of busting organized crime who would think that a HO (don’t know if she was a nappyheadedho or not) who probably works for organized crime would finger the governor in a sex sting.

I believe that prostitution is an issue that should be controlled but legal.  Just like marijuana.  These are vices not crimes and should be treated thusly.  By being illegal they only encourage organized crime to move in and take the profit in these highly profitable enterprises.

Like a lot of the comments from the right the hypocrisy is running rampant.  Spitzer should have kept his “Dick Cheney” in his pants and honored the commitment he made to his wife, and I think he should resign, but the republican cry for impeachment while the Commander and Thief and his trained pit bull Cheney are still is in the White House.  WTF!!!!

by Michael Chavers (33 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 131 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 3:22:27 PM
 


Politically, I lean Libertarian. When discussing issues, I will slam Dems and/or Republicans.

Now, when it comes to really irritating me, just make an unfounded charge; I will clobber whomever makes the charge if there are no facts to back it up! Another version of this is when I see something that is just plainly silly/ridiculous.

An example could be something stated which could be very easily disproved. Another example, and I see this frequently: Rather than...

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steve scheetzPolitically, I lean Libertarian. When discussing issues, I will slam Dems and/or Republicans.

Now, when it comes to really irritating me, just make an unfounded charge; I will clobber whomever makes the charge if there are no facts to back it up! Another version of this is when I see something that is just plainly silly/ridiculous.

An example could be something stated which could be very easily disproved. Another example, and I see this frequently: Rather than...

to see more of bio, click on member name

You make my point!

How about is it OK to go kill 400 birds with your drunk cronies and then, next time nearly kill a man while being a VP of this country?  That's OK?

 

No, it is NOT OK!! However, we are not talking about that right now, and I am just stating that it is NOT OK to suggest that our country is out of its mind to be going after Spitzer because there are so many other issues wrong in the US...

 I am simply suggesting that if we don't like what is going on then we need to do something to point out how bad other things are, rather then complain about how we are going after something that is bad...  I mean this thread makes zero sense to me...  anyone else feel that way?

Ciao, CZ 

by steve scheetz (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 320 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 3:28:08 PM
 


DOB -- September 20, 1940. Became active in civil rights and peace movements in 1962. Active in socialist and antiwar movements -- 1963-69. Active in Gay Liberation from 1969 to present.
rhalfhillDOB -- September 20, 1940. Became active in civil rights and peace movements in 1962. Active in socialist and antiwar movements -- 1963-69. Active in Gay Liberation from 1969 to present.

IT'S BECAUSE IT SHOULD NOT BE ILLEGAL

No, I am not saying it is allright for Elliot Spitzer to patronize a prostitute because Bush vetoed a bill outlawing water boading, etc.  I am saying it was allright because there was nothing wrong with it and it should be no cooncern of either law or morality.

   And the other relevant argument is that oppressive governments also selectively prosecute for law violations, prosecuting those they want to eliminate and not prosecuting those they don't want to get.  In such circumstances, it is not okay to hypocritically say that A doing x cannot be excused because B did x and was not prosecuted.  Instead, anyone who is not a pious hypocrite will immediately demand that the government be consistent by prosecuting both A and B if what they did was justly proscribed by law or prosecute neither if what they did was something that should not be a crime.

rhalfhill@juno.com   RobertHalfhill@gmail.com

by rhalfhill (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 227 comments) on Thursday, March 13, 2008 at 2:30:45 AM
 


Marta Steele is a writer/editor/blogger/sometime professor/indexer/proofreader extremely concerned that our democracy is going to pot and using all my skills, including some knowledge of some foreign languages, to try to make things better. I blog several times a week on peace and election protection, among other issues.
Marta SteeleMarta Steele is a writer/editor/blogger/sometime professor/indexer/proofreader extremely concerned that our democracy is going to pot and using all my skills, including some knowledge of some foreign languages, to try to make things better. I blog several times a week on peace and election protection, among other issues.

Rabbi Lerner's article

The premise that we ignore far worse evils than promiscuity by focusing on such scandals and forgetting the rest that are infinitely worse is right on the mark. We let the corporatocracy get away with infinitely more than a bit of infidelity. Let? Can we do otherwise? That's a good question. That leads to "Is democracy dead or alive?"

But I plunge into infinite despair when I read such false generalities as  "That there is no outcry for these government officials and corporate leaders to resign immediately or be impeached, that there is no moral outrage at the entire system that produces this impact, is America's ethical perversity." Rabbi, please read some of the other articles published at opednews.com. We progressives have been screaming and howling about this since time immemorial. Progressives and other ethical dissenters anyway.

Marta Steele

by Marta Steele (19 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 15 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 8:49:18 PM
 


I'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.
Michael ShawI'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.

I agree wholeheartedly Rabbi

In a nation where recent polls suggest 41% of the nation's population support the idea of water boarding, this holier than thou nonsense is simply that. Judge not lest ye yourself be judged. Furthermore the investigation into Spitzers affair seem rather unusual. But then again when it comes to the justice system under Bush, we're dealing with a stacked deck where only one out of every seven ethics investigations are aimed at republicans. Spitzer stepped on a lot of toes. I see this as nothing short of political retribution from a party that hasn't any ethics whatsoever.

by Michael Shaw (6 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 249 comments) on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 10:10:41 PM
 


I'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.
Michael ShawI'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.

I'd like to ad a little more

This comes from courtesy of Democracy Now:

 

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/12/spitzer_expected_to_resign_over

WAYNE BARRETT: Well, he could be charged under the Mann Act, because he paid for the transportation of this woman from New York to D.C. for the liaison that you referred to at the top of the show, so that’s a Mann Act violation. That’s a 1910 law. Very few prosecutions under that law have occurred in recent decades, but theoretically that’s what they were investigating.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And it’s rarely—even more rarely against someone who’s a client, rather than an actual organizer of the ring.

WAYNE BARRETT: Right. And it’s—now, what they are talking about a great deal now is structuring, which is the attempt, on his part apparently, to conceal the payments that he was making to the prostitution ring, and the structuring allegation is based on whether or not he was trying to remain under the $10,