The corporatists that are pushing globalization are transfering the wealth of the American middle class to the world's poor, but at the same time most wealth generated in the US is going to the Upper Class.  Does this sound good to you?

by Joel S. Hirschhorn (141 articles, 50 quicklinks, 65 diaries, 546 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Dec 11, 2007 at 8:23:39 PM

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Your title promised 'the truth about immigration' but there was none. All that was included was an irrational rave that bordered on Xenophobia or nationalistic ferver akin to .....? What's next 'the truth about non whites'?

If you want to debate immigration and not be seen selfish racist then put together a cogent argument that includes supportable facts.....

by Andris (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 531 comments) on Tuesday, Dec 11, 2007 at 8:53:49 PM

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There was nothing xenophobic or nationalistic about the piece. Did you read it?

by Terry (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 36 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Dec 12, 2007 at 11:23:29 AM

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Illegal immigrants are "ILLEGAL". Is that so hard to understand?
If it is, it's because you are co-opted by the fact that your landscapers are illegal or the new sweater you bought was made by illegal workers and therefore cost you much less. Tell the truth, am I not right? You bet I'm right. That makes the question of illegal workers one of possible acquiesence, leaving the moral dilemma of having coerced the illegals into believing they are wanted and accepted. Now what? Do you say sorry get lost? I wonder.

by Archie (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1761 comments [112 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Dec 11, 2007 at 9:50:17 PM

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Anne Frank was ILLEGAL. Is that so hard to understand?

This mantra about "illegal" as if it's a self-proving argument, is actually a non-argument.

by Terry (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 36 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Dec 12, 2007 at 11:20:18 AM

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...as a sort of shout, but if someone doesn't understand your premises from the outset, I'd say they won't get it. The comments here are good indications.

When I got to the phrase, "...lazy parasites pouring over borders to leech off another nation's resources..." I admit I was already mentally preparing some off the mark comments of my own, until I read on.

Unfortunately, what you see as so obvious is something that is not part of most people's worldview. So it's likely that all the background and context must accompany any comments you might wish to make. I think that's Noam Chomsky's problem too, one which he's talked about. Me, I wouldn't have the patience.

As for the actual so-called immigration issue, I think it's a non-issue and a distraction. Unfortunately again, that sort of thing will be the focus of many people, causing the usual polarities, while their houses are deconstructed around them. 

by Terry (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 36 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Dec 12, 2007 at 11:29:20 AM

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Hence the request for facts not an emotionally charges piece that blames 'illegals' for everything. 

 It's not the illegals who are screwing things up in America. No one issue or group of people can rightly take the blame for the current mess. To do that much mischief you need a whole population.

 It is the citizens who vote for governments and it is citizens who allow/sanction the policies, structures in their name and apathy that creates the problem.

This essay smacked of national elitism (it’s ours and no one else can have it..we are superior...like the  Boston Legal character who justifies every thing with his name " Denny Crane") and scapegoating of the illegals. Why them?

 Why not the plutocrats/Corporations who caused the poverty in their home countries in the first place.Ask yourselves what if you had to break the law cross hostile land, deal with racists and work like a slave for an absolute pittance so your family back home could eat would you or would you say "well it’s their country I'll stay home and let my family starve." Do you think for a moment that these illegals are risking death because it seemed like a good afternoon's diversion? Why single out this group in this way? Answer Xenophobia 'fear of others not the same as one's self'. Why not target those that look like us maybe those useless 'celebrities' who are famous for being famous. How about the useless silver spoon children? Why not those half informed over opinionated citizens who don't vote but complain that the government doesn't represent them? Maybe those who seek overtly simple solutions to complex issues because anything more would require more effort than they would like. Those millions for citizens who also helped create the problems by being too busy or couldn’t be bothered to try and look at issues objectively. How about those who employ these illegals on iniquitous wages to work menial or disgusting work ‘Americans’ won’t do. (Certainly not for that for the money). 

Then there are those wanting that extra TV so cheap that it has to be made in countries where the people are mercilessly exploited. Then there are those who at the same time scream about jobs lost at home. Small point, the US rams its ideas of capitalism down everyone’s throats even to the point of war or meddling in other countries’ internal affairs. Lecturing and hectoring these countries how they need to be competitive while forcing the selling off of national services and assets to American Corporations.  

America helped to create the situation and morally America is therefore responsible for cleaning it up not demonizing its victims.

Yes My comments are justified. I suggest anyone who doubts this read historic facts from both perspectives about America’s actions in Latin America then judge me.

by Andris (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 531 comments) on Wednesday, Dec 12, 2007 at 10:59:40 PM

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...it's about corporatism. Again, I suggest you read it again.

Meanwhile, I'm glad my comment got your back up, so to speak, if it led you to so impassioned and eloquent a response.

I agree with every word you said. So much so that I won't even expand upon it, behaviour very unlike me, believe me.

You might be surprised to learn that I've been arguing your point exactly in a forum I regularly visit, in response to a usually liberal minded person who has been quite vociferous in his alarm over immigrants.

In short hand, I argue usually that it is a non-issue, a divisive non-issue, and a distraction from those things that should concern us all. Like so many other things, it dismays me that this non existent issue has become a front runner for the attention of our population, our voters, and all our candidates.

You are absolutely right in everything you say.

And I still recommend re-reading the editorial. 

by Terry (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 36 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Dec 13, 2007 at 2:59:42 AM

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