Zubaydah may have been crazy as a loon, but

he DID give FROM MEMORY the palace and cell phone number of Prince Bandar of S. Arabia.

He mentioned 3 other "princes" and Pakistan's head of their Air Force, saying they were all in on 9/11.  These four were all dead within the month.

A million dead Iraqi's is of course beyond tragic.  But what allows this crime to escape widespread condemnation is not waterboarding or who knew/authorized what, it is people like Collins who are afraid to go there.  Pure cowardice to face the fact that 9/11 was an inside job.  S.Arabia and Pakistan are our boys and the CIA and Mossad play them like violins.

Are you angry at the genocide?  Upset about the orphans?  Grow a pair and join the brave....DEMAND A NEW INVESTIGATION

by CamusRebel (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 61 comments) on Tuesday, January 1, 2008 at 2:31:19 PM
 

Hey rebel guy...

I've been there, 9/11 General strike Thought Control on the Internet Internet thought Control Bill Under Fire. (Part 2- see link for Part 1)

called for a new investigation a number of time s. I agree that 911 is critical to all of this. It was the "prelude to war," that's no doubt. Since about 50% of the people want a new investigation. we're both passe;)

But read this, early call on FoleyGate and rokken on

Zbig's tip off of the Iraq war plan.

Whatever, stop the kiling,now!

by Michael Collins (81 articles, 11 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 289 comments) on Tuesday, January 1, 2008 at 3:42:27 PM
 

CamusRebel - your attack is seriously misdirected

Michael Collins has been out front in public with all of us for years working to bring the truth to light on 9/11, on election fraud, on torture, on Congressional lies and misconduct.

Don't attack the people spreading the truth. Get out there and spread some yourself.

by Kathlyn Stone (33 articles, 204 quicklinks, 19 diaries, 557 comments) on Tuesday, January 1, 2008 at 7:20:30 PM
 

Thanks kstone

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Rebel guy got me to haul out some of my favorite articles.

There are definite sources, central to what's going on today. But my view is, this is just horrendous. I'll bet that 99.9% of the country would be outraged at these figures and furious that they, the clique that rules, perpetrated these acts. The media is so giulty here. AP did a good article on the 23rd I believe, but missed the Iraqi government and AlterNet follow up on the 18th concerning the 5.0 million lost children. Here's today's Google "News" results for orphans Iraq.

Note the absence of any mainstream media.

Wonder if we'll ever hear this story in MSM?

by Michael Collins (81 articles, 11 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 289 comments) on Tuesday, January 1, 2008 at 9:57:36 PM
 

Tapes?! We don't need no stinking tapes

Demand the TRANSCRIPTS.  They must still exist.  They are just one of many smoking guns waiting to be noticed.  Lets start the new year right.  All of you terrified little sheeple that cry, "oh no, i could never accept that our honorable, moral and righteous leaders could ever have put thermite in those buildings to blow them up so they could kill millions, torture at will and rape our treasury for trillions.....its just too horrible to even consider"...you all need to wake the f**k up.  And soon, like today.

Why were there so many "War Games" going on that day?

Why did the moron not get whisked away IMMEDIATELY, instead of remaining in a publicly announced location for over a half hour?

Do yourselves a huge favor.  Read "War On Truth"  by Nafeez Ahmed.

All this "terrorism" is a phoney boogeyman created to scare us into accepting genocide, torture and the shredding of our Constitution.

by CamusRebel (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 61 comments) on Tuesday, January 1, 2008 at 2:42:21 PM
 

I'm with CamusRebel...........

on this one...........being on the ground in the War Zones, I can see this "Bushco Terrorist War" and the block and mortar war facilities construction is so far ahead of public attention that it's mind boggling............the only way to stop the war machine is to sever the head of the snake...........and it must be done now..........our children's children's money is being spent before they are born............

by Ernest (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 130 comments) on Wednesday, January 2, 2008 at 12:53:55 AM
 

Facts about the torture bill (Military Commissions Act)

Michael and everyone, please know that I agree whole-heartedly that the war death statistics are horrible and it's all based on a lie, which makes it all the more evil and nothing less. I believe it to be organized violent crime on an international scale and that jail, not impeachment, is the only just punishment. Having so said, and having served on the board of the County Chapter of the ACLU in my locale, let me give some facts/statistics about torture just for the record, stating unequivocally that the torture crimes are just as bad and even worse, and are much more of a threat to society than may be currently believed: 

"His torture was conducted either with or without the full knowledge of Bush-Cheney."

The Military Commissions Act (torture bill) grants the President and future Presidents of the United States the power to "interpret" the Geneva Conventions (which provide a guide of what comprises torture/what does not) and the U.S. Constitution. Thus, it is the President himself who presides over torture and what form it takes.

That Cheney and Bush knew about the torture and what form it took, there can be zero doubt.

Also, torture is defined in the MCA as invoking pain levels "equivalent to severe organ failure and death". Get an idea why the tapes were whisked away? Torture is a euphemism often ending up in actual murder. (Examples: Being whipped with steel cables 2 inches thick. Groin cut with a scalpel and body engraved, with boiling liquids poured into the wounds. Dogs biting body up and down is called "walking the dog". Psychological torture with statements like "you will never get out of here and are doomed forever, will always be under our power forever" and the next day some prisoner was freed but committed suicide just one day prior to his release, because being denied contact iwht his attorney he didn't know that there was any hope). Etc.....

As to who is being tortured and the so-called necessity for it, here is a rebuttal to that one. Studies have proven that torture victims will squeal up all kinds of false confessions in order to stop the murder without actual death occurring. CIA officials claim that it's necessary to achieve intelligence, but of course they are biased. Other studies indicate just the opposite: Due to torture, the wrong people confess to crimes which they never committed while the dangerous guys walk around free. Further, when terrorists know that an ally is in captivity, they change their tactic. So any "intelligence" coughed up by an actual terrorist, under torture, is useless anway.

As to who is being tortured, it is preciously few among them who actually are terrorists. The Red Cross estimates that 70% or more of the Guantanamo detainees are innocent while the Center for Constitutional Rights and ACLU echo each other with unremitting consistency: Most detainees are held (and a few of them released) "without so much as being charged with a single crime".

A BBC report recently disclosed that the US Government announced that the Supreme Court has "sanctioned" kidnapping anywhere in the world. ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT WE/YOU/I ARE NOT VULNERABLE HAD BETTER THINK AGAIN. For example, bankers in England were kidnapped by the CIA because of fraud crimes. Some "Terrorists", eh? Criminals yes, but do they deserve Guantanamo et al?

With the Patriot Act definition of "terrorists" as loosely worded as to include religious and peace groups and activists in its deceptive sweep, it is you and I, folks, who are vulnerable. "IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN TO ME/YOU" IS AN ASSUMPTION TO BE LOOKED AT AGAIN.

The statistics on the ACLU's website of activists and vocal people DUBBED as "Terrorists" and targeted as such by teh FBI is just overwhelming.

Look here for examples of citizens like you and me being targeted as "Terrorists" by teh FBI, including bird watchers, charitable organization contributors, and yes subjects of religious profiling, but in fact most of them ordinary Americans like you and me (black, white, Asian, Middle Eastern, you name it).....http://www.rightsmatter.org/multimedia/

Again the war crimes are unbelievable, and I couldn't agree more> The threat of torture for vocal citizens is all hte more possible as the Thought Crimes Bill passes into law, especially when paired up with the Patriot Act. We are deluding ourselves if we think there is less of a threat in torture than with the war: Wrong! Torture is the way that dictatorships abroad ROUTINELY do away with vocal citizens. The shootings in Tianenmen Square are only one example: I know people whose lives were threatened for free speech in dictatorships abroad. It's coming here now wiht S. 1959 and we'd better wake up and smell the reality fast: "It will never happen to you/me" may be a thing of the past. Be ye forewarned.

by Kathryn Smith (84 articles, 1 quicklinks, 33 diaries, 306 comments) on Wednesday, January 2, 2008 at 5:01:34 AM
 

Thanks, that's useful. My intent was to juxtapose "erased

tapes," which is the next big thing, and 5 million orphans plus the dead.  I agree with everything you say about our loss of rights and protections.  I was coming driving home from the "We Count" voting rights conference in Cleveland in 2006, just after Congress wiped out habeas corpus.  I was pulled over for speeding, nice highway patrol guy.  We were talking and I mentioned this and said that torture was now applicable to U.S. citizens.  He was surprised thinking it was just for 'terrorists.'  When he came back and gave me the ticket, I said, "Does this mean I'll be tortured?"  His response was, "Not today, it's just a fine."  We both laughed but the overall picture is no laughing.  It's a disgrace. 

It's a manifestation of the core problem, tyranny and no political opposition from the mainstream 'opposition.'  The very worst manifestation is in Iraq - the violence against people and the social fabric.  They have the laws in place to do us in but they're responsible for real torture in Iraq and creating the climate of violence that leads to the deaths, injuries, and orphans.  That must stop period. 

by Michael Collins (81 articles, 11 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 289 comments) on Wednesday, January 2, 2008 at 11:02:30 AM
 

Torture

The troops acted like murderers, looters ,rapists.

Killing 1 million plus innocent Iraq civilians who had done nothing to America

who were not involved with 911

is one thing but it is how they came to die is the worse tale of all

America went into Iraq which was a third world nation that had been defanged by the U.N. defenseless .America pre-emptively attacked the defenseless third world nation using ww3 tactics and munitions

employ banned weapons and radiation bombs.

this tell the tale of how the troops were part and parcel to the massacre

How do these murderous bunch of troops return home and fit into society like it didn't happen well they can't they will remain killers when they return home they will be killing Americans exacting their revenge for what you all made them do

Remember that they are coming home for you to rape murder and loot America

by dave stanley (5 articles, 1 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 286 comments) on Wednesday, January 2, 2008 at 6:19:48 PM
 

5M orphans -- inaccurate?

Pardon me,

I understand "orphan" to mean a child (perhaps younger than 16) whose parents have both died. Assuming roughly 1M excess deaths post-invasion, 5M orphaned children requires something like each of those deaths to be of a sole parent of 5 children. Is there something I'm missing?

by Iznotim Pahrtent (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Thursday, January 3, 2008 at 1:52:06 AM
 

Here's some information to help understand the figures

Here's some information that might help

Iraqi families with children average 10-12 children.  This question was raised at DU (below "Question & Answer on Your Topic" and the Q&A might help explain it.  The user there had a similar observation.  The first two quotations are the source for the figures.  The only disagreement in the Iraqi government was a counter estimate at 4.0 million.  I used the higher figure since that was the official release of the anti corruption board.

Iraq Updates

by Michael Collins (81 articles, 11 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 289 comments) on Thursday, January 3, 2008 at 1:29:16 PM
 

Continuation of response

Didn't take the whole message...here's the rest

Iraq Updates http://tinyurl.com/28n3px

Iraq's anti-corruption board revealed on Saturday that there were five million Iraqi orphans as reported by official government statistics, urging the government, parliament, and NGOs to be in constant contact with Iraq's parentless children.

Orphans – Wikipedia  http://tinyurl.com/2e9jb6

On December 15, 2007 a conference dedicated to orphans in Iraq was held in Baghdad. Iraq's anti-corruption board reported that official government statistics revealed that five million (or 35%) of Iraqi children are orphans. Wijdan Salem Mikhail, the Iraqi minister of human rights, stated the phenomenon "is one of the most passive things that grew immensely during the past few years due to destructive wars and unbridled violence in the country."  The Iraqi parliament's women and family committee have proposed a draft law to set up a fund for the orphans.[214] Abeer Chalabi head of the state orphanages section of the Ministry of Labor and Social Affairs estimates more than 4 million orphans and says the number may be exaggerated "but to have so many is a catastrophe." Iraqi orphanages have the capacity to look after no more than 26,000 children but the government says it has only 700 children in its institutions. This is due mainly to the Iraqi tradition that obligates relatives to take in orphaned or abandoned children but many of these families cannot afford to care for them and send them out during the day to beg or gather scrap metal.

Question & Answer on Your Topic

Morereason  (384 posts)    Tue Jan-01-08 06:19 PM

57. Help me understand: 5 mil orphans from 1 mil casualties???

Don't get me wrong, 1 million casualties is horrific. But I am curious how they get 5 Million orphans? That would have to mean that the average family has 8-10 kids in Iraq (Both parents have to die for a child to be considered an Orphan right? Just asking..

autorank  Wed Jan-02-08 02:50 AM

83. You worked the figures out pretty decently.           

The Iraqi family tends to be large, 10 kids or so. So your backwards engineering worked out quite well.

There is a relationship between the dead and injured figures and the orphans. I don't know what itis and I'll leave that to the Hopkins School of Public Health http://tinyurl.com/a9vel and Opinion Research Business http://tinyurl.com/2xlygm . (I didn't include the Hopkins study since there estimatesare a bit old. They were published in 'Lancet,' about as good as it gets for peer reviewed journals.)

ORB has tables at links connected to the one listed. You may be able to answer your question there.

If so, let us know. It's a valid epidemiological question so I suspect the Hopkins people are workingon it.

(Webster's Online) Orphan - "a child deprived by death of one or usually both parents." Could be death of one parent plus separation from the other. Lots of Sunnis have left Baghdad. I don't know the exact number but it's high. There has been unbelievable violence, body parts strewn in the streets, promoting people to flee.

Very good questions and inference on the math by you.

by Michael Collins (81 articles, 11 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 289 comments) on Thursday, January 3, 2008 at 1:31:09 PM
 

yikes!

another wonderful/horrible article, michael.

wow.  5 million orphans.  as a mother, that is a mighty painful number.  especially with your compare/contrast equivalent of fifty-some million here...

thank you for your steadfastness.  it almost makes up for the abdication of responsibility on the part of the mainstream press. 

by Joan Brunwasser (130 articles, 3331 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 581 comments) on Thursday, January 3, 2008 at 8:42:05 PM