All of this goes away if this country, like all other civilized industrialized countries, would provide Universal Health Care.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Monday, Jul 2, 2007 at 2:34:11 PM

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While I believe the promise was made, your point is entirely well taken.  The American Legion, VFW, DAV, JWV and CWV are more intent on maintaining their charters than truly standing up for the veteran.  Why are there so many homeless veterans, shuffling from place to place and ignored by society at large?  Why does it take a monumental battle just to get a crumb of benefit from the government?  We need to turn our backs on the established groups like the Legion, as I have done, and become active in organizations such as VoteVets.org.  After all, it was only after the establishment of the V V O A that  the Vietnam vet got anything out of this government for the service they performed.

by Kenneth Barr (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 107 comments) on Monday, Jul 2, 2007 at 3:34:41 PM

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The Promise was made to military retirees not to veterans......all military retirees are veterans, not all veterans are retirees........BIG BIG Difference.

by momo (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Monday, Jul 2, 2007 at 4:18:22 PM

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Larry, Are you really that ignorant of the Promise made, or have you written this article, to get comments from Floyd Sears, myself, and I am sure by now many others that know of the promise stipulated in Floyds website......In my mind you must know of the promise,otherwise why would you write such an article? You can't write an article unless you know at least something of the topic..Anyway, thanks for the lead in.......You bring our quest before more folks, hoping some will join us and belabor the congress to do the right thing stated in the US 11th District Courts comments when this case went before them...

by momo (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Monday, Jul 2, 2007 at 4:10:13 PM

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Larry, If you can get ahold of a 50's to 70's recruiting manuel you will find it in there. It was one of the "Perks" recuiters used durning that time. Ted Peer

by TED PEER (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Monday, Jul 2, 2007 at 4:25:28 PM

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For those who keep trying to say there was a promise...and tell of recruiting brochures and such...  The Courts have ruled that those did NOT constitute a promise of any kind.  It's time to stop living in the past and face today's reality that there was no promise...there is no promise.

by Larry Scott (26 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments) on Monday, Jul 2, 2007 at 4:29:27 PM

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 Here is what the court said.........truth is truth, no matter how one trys to misrepresent it.........For more on the subject, go too: http://mrgrg- ms.org/

United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit

99-1402

WILLIAM O. SCHISM and ROBERT L. REINLIE,

Plaintiffs-Appellants,

v.

 

UNITED STATES,

Defendant-Appellee.


IV. Conclusion

We cannot readily imagine more sympathetic plaintiffs than the retired officers of the World War II and Korean War era involved in this case. They served their country for at least 20 years with the understanding that when they retired they and their dependents would receive full free health care for life. The promise of such health care was made in good faith and relied upon. Again, however, because no authority existed to make such promises in the first place, and because Congress has never ratified or acquiesced to this promise, we have no alternative but to uphold the judgment against the retirees' breach-of-contract claim.

Federal judges have a duty to uphold the Constitution and the laws, even if that means making unpleasant or unpopular decisions. Congress, on the other hand, has the power to make law, not simply to interpret and apply it. As our predecessor court said:
#
#
#
# Congress has the power and authority under the Constitution to establish a system for the payment of retired pay [for military service members] and to change the system from time to time. . . . We understand and appreciate the dissatisfaction of the plaintiffs with the change in the retirement pay system, as they have rendered long and faithful service to our country in time of peace and war. However, if they are to get any relief, it must come from Congress, as this is not within [a court's] jurisdiction.

Abbott v. United States, 200 Ct. Cl. 384, 390 (1973). Perhaps Congress will consider using its legal power to address the moral claims raised by Schism and Reinlie on their own behalf, and indirectly for other affected retirees.

For the reasons stated above, the district court's grant of summary judgment for the government is

AFFIRMED.

by momo (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Monday, Jul 2, 2007 at 5:17:41 PM

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The above post makes my point EXACTLY!

 The military had no authority to offer such a benefit...therefore, there was NO promise!

by Larry Scott (26 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments) on Monday, Jul 2, 2007 at 5:27:29 PM

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There are no promises made to veterans except the self-same bluster that they accept from their leaders to be true.  I think it was Napoleon who said that a soldier would do anything for a ribbon that he would never do for money.

 Priests make a similarly empty promise of salvation, if you would just fill their coffers with gold. Leaders say what followers want to hear.  That is the secret behind all power.

 Like the old saying, "let the buyer beware."  We have war because soldiers support war as voters, families, frightened and gullible and revenge-seeking individuals.  They believe in war, and therefore they make war.

 Soldiers have my pity, but they do not deserve any special privileges.  If joe citizen isn't entitled to health care, a pension, discounts, a parade, etc., then neither should a soldier, a politician, a teacher or any other government bureaucrat.  Why should working people be forced to support a double-standard of proud and arrogant power-mongers?  Why should the people be serfs to the government's appetite and mismanagement and its ever-growing pool of self-satisfied personnel?

 Pride comes before the fall. What makes us unique is what lies we believe before we come to face the reality of our own mirror.  Soldiers have their set of lies, others have another set.  But one thing is sure, you are only a victim of what you freely chose to believe.  If you think of yourself as a victim, then you haven't come to terms with your mirror, yet.  Many seek to blame others for their own choices.

 Liberty cannot be won by the barrel of a gun or through a ballot box.  Liberty can only be won through understanding: know thyself.  One cannot lose what they never had.

 War is the toxic combination of fear, pride and greed.  When the war ends, these things do not end, they just separate.  Another generation is born, and the same old lies are repeated again. Fathers lie to their sons, and another generation is seduced by glory and greed.

God is the only one who can keep his promises, not the government, the church, a business, etc.  Organizations are only interested in themselves, the concept, not actual people; just as soldiers think of themselves as "veteran" rather than as citizen, or human.  They see themselves as "saviors" of others, deserving recognition and privileges.

 What would we do without the tinkerer who builds the gun, the priest who tells us who to shoot, and the leader who shoots the gun?  :-)

by Steve Consilvio (18 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 184 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Jul 2, 2007 at 7:04:43 PM

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Many a mothers son has died, for you to express your crap without fear of being hauled off in the middle of the night, never to be seen again.

 Teachers taught us to read.

Soldiers, fought and died so you could do it in english........Hmmmm

mlm 

by momo (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Monday, Jul 2, 2007 at 11:40:09 PM

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After reading "WHAT PROMISE TO VETERANS?" I must admit that it is true legally, but not morally or ethically. I have to tell you Congress and the courts are wrong on this issue. As a Vietnam era veteran, I was promised free medical care at VA facilities for the rest of my life. Retirees got free health care for their families and themselves at military facilities. Since I was receiving $45.00 a month to start, I took the trade-off. I was scammed just like all the rest at the time.

My military service was just as honorable as those serving in Afghanistan and Iraq, recently wounded or not. All veterans deserve what was promised at least. To now have Congress and the courts say that they no longer have any liability to past veterans is insulting and demeaning.

Now to say that my care would deprive disabled, new veterans illustrates misplaced priorities in the defense of our nation. Senator Craig (Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho), Ranking Member, U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs) wants us to have to choose between dollars and honor. A Walter Reed fiasco results, not surprising.

The VA now wants to focus on the returning wounded vet, discriminating against those veterans that just so happened not to be disabled while on duty. There is honor in service to your country, not just for those unfortunate to be disabled. Veterans do not need to be pitted against each other. Not taking care of our veterans and not keeping our nations's promises undermines our readiness. When young adults approach me regarding military service, I have to be honest, their trade-offs are different today. To me, that is a shame and we wonder why we have problems recruiting.

We can not afford to fight our wars on the cheap, scamming the veterans to bear the burden. Whether all of us realize it or not, this nation belongs to all of us, not just those that fight and die for it. In a recent email from Senator Craig, he states the focus of the VA should be the recently wounded veteran. He can not understand why the VA should open the doors to all veterans (even though studies show less than ten percent would utilize the VA medical facilities).

Recently wounded veterans used to be taken care of by the military healthcare system and not released from care until able to return to duty or medically discharged. Now Congress allows the military to outsource this care to the VA. Maybe we should change the name to Disabled Veterans Administration since we are going to abandon all the rest of us. Combat disabilities should not be worth more than those hurt in non-combat roles or zones. VA benefits should not be based on a roll of the dice. A veteran is a veteran is a veteran. Do not segregate us. Choose honor before dollars.

If VA funding is to made just on dollars alone, a better idea would be to privatize the VA and sell the medical benefits as insurance to veterans. I bet that way we would never would have had a Walter Reed disaster and the taxpayers of this nation would be completely off the hook. But then, you will need to start looking for some bodies to fight our wars.

"The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional to how they perceived veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by our nation" George Washington -- YOU OWE US!

by Ron Robertson (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments) on Monday, Jul 2, 2007 at 8:48:57 PM

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