The United States absolutely can impose peace on the Middle East.
We can do it. It could have and should have been done decades ago. It could be done tomorrow, and all this would come to an end. Sound like neo-conservative Koolaid? It's not. It's exactly the opposite, but unfortunately, for reasons I'll elaborate on, it's not going to happen. Ever.
What is this peace plan? It's very, very simple, and there are 12 billion reasons it would work: Take away the 12 billion dollars a year the American tax payer shells out to sustain the Apartheid socialist theocracy of Israel, and tell them that until they build their wall on the 1967 borders and get out of the occupied territories, the 12 billion a year is going to the Palestinians.
Of course this has the potential to place Israel in great danger. I say potential, because they're being given a choice; either abide in the more than 60 U.N. resolutions, and stop what they're doing, or lose the country. If Israel claims they want peace, they will do it. If not, well, why should we stand in the way of a belligerent nation willfully sowing the seeds of their own destruction and why the hell should we continue to pay them to do it?
This whole thing has been a charade from the beginning. I know it, you know it, the Israelis know it, and last but not least, the string-pullers in AIPAC who own your government and control the media know it. It's what could happen, what should happen, it would have the overwhelming support of the overwhelming majority of the American people, the whole of the world, and it's never going to happen.
It's not going to happen because the people who run this country, the vested interests, don't want it to. Such a simple, fundamentally obvious solution to an allegedly "un-solvable" 40 year problem, is nothing if not the worst nightmare of General Electric, the Oil companies and their share holders and the corrupt "think tanks" they fund to lobby your government ceaselessly. The "terror" problem is not a problem for them, but a solution. It generates immense wealth and assures endless interventionism in a region where governments are imposed to maintain continued theft of oil from it's rightful owners –the peoples of the Middle East-
Who really drives the maintenance of such an overtly failed policy in light of such an obvious solution for 40 years? The Israelis, or the allegedly "American" military industrial complex? Does Israel wag the United States, or does the United States actually wag Israel? The debate leading to the answer to this actually doesn't much matter. The bottom line is that this country's attachment not just to Israel, but to the endless game of the so-called "Peace process" , and the enabling of Israel to commit it's oppressions, is beyond obvious. The United States could impose the solution tomorrow. And if they did, the "terror problem" would dry up very quickly. Then the Saudi government and all the other U.S. supported puppet governments would have to deal with what they had done to their own people. What happens when the shells stop moving and the cups are turned over? The game comes to an end. The sucker knows he's been had. Consequences follow when we're talking about people's living conditions and those who've robbed them blind them for 40 years.
No one really wants "Democracy" in the Middle East. It's also their worst nightmare. Not because extremist governments would replace the puppet dictatorships, but because the people of the middle east would act in their own interests and demand a share of the oil wealth which is their birthright.
No one actually wants the "two state solution", and anyone who believes they do, is a damned fool.
Jay Esbe is a writer with a background in cultural anthropology and comparative religion and lives in Seattle Washington.
Look at the new deal brokered by Saudi Arabia. Hamas is not going to honor agrements the prevous administration made with Israel. Hamas refuses to recognze Israel's right to exist.
Your easy answer is illusion, not solution. This is the hardest problem on the planet, and this is a solution, but one that only works for one side-- the side of the Arabs who want the state of Israel removed from the face of the map.
The next step would be moving the border back to the 1948 borders. Meanwhile, suicide bombings would continue and Hezbollah would get stronger and more threatening in Lebanon.
Meanwhile Saudi Arabia is giving Palestine a billion dollars. This war has been ratcheted up.
Don't think, because I disagree with you that I support curent Israeli poicy. I find the leadership in Israel as abominable as the criminal whitehouse leadership here. But I don't write off the nation because of the leaders just as I don't give up on the US.
Also, some argue that Israel was an illegitimate creation of the British, in 1948. Well, so were Iraq, Saudi Arabia and mot of the modern middle east nations that were created from the carcass of the Ottoman empire.
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Rob Kall (739 articles, 3816 quicklinks, 318 diaries, 1593 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 7:12:12 AM
Israel won't even define its borders. How can it's neighbors formally recognize an entity that wont even specify its territory.
Israel is THE aggressor and THE problem in the Mid-East; and if it weren't being propped up with outrageous military, economic, and political support from the U.S., it would have to start behaving reasonably, or it would go away.
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jpsmith123 (3 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 287 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 7:38:14 AM
Strawman. It depends on what the definition of "Isreal" is.
"Hamas refuses to recognze Israel's right to exist."
This is a gigantic strawman, deliberately foisted into the minds of US citizens in the same way Ahmadinejad's words were twisted and mistranslated into "wipe Israel off the map". He said no such thing, but no one will report what he really said -"clear THIS zionist government from the history books"- apart from the blogs.
Hamas can not POSSIBLY agree to recognize "Israel" without a clear, concise definition of exactly WHAT and WHERE Israel is. As it stands, the "wall" meanders all over Palestinian territory and even walls in and cuts off Palestinian neighborhoods. Is Hamas supposed accept this? Are the Palestinians supposed to accept the dispossession without recompense of 2.5 MILLION of their people? This is just another example of how the American people are lied to about this.
If I encroach on your property and steal from you, are you willing to "recognize my right to exist" without a complete accounting of what's been taken, a recognition of the original property line, AND repayment for taking it in the first place? I don't think so.
Any imposed solution, would be just that, and be imposed on both sides.
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Esbe (50 articles, 0 quicklinks, 17 diaries, 85 comments)
on Thursday, February 15, 2007 at 4:35:16 AM
I have been called many names on this site for my primary thesis that Israeli govt is not the Israeli people. I also was called many names for another thesis of mine about ' slimy love' that is everyone whoever wants sticks his/her fingers into the Middle East and /or into the Jews. But exaclty because of that I would like to say that, no, the US cannot 'impose peace'. Neither anyone externally can. The US (if we did have the govt guided by the US national interests) should explain to the sides there that we are withdrawing. All of us. We should go away. Some people might say that that might result in Saudi spearheading the Israel demise. But that immediately presumes that they, and only they are hateful bastards who will risk whatever just to reach their puny goals. I would argue that we thus judge through ourselves. In fact WE are the greedy bastards who deliberately and with malice distort the natural ways of things on the planet. So, let's make an experiment (Americans love them)- go away!
I assure you, folks, that if there is a congress where all reps of the Middle East population could be reprsented: Jews, Arabs, Copts, Druses, Germans, Armenians, Greeks, Lebanese, Persians, and there would be a question asked-what is it you all want first, no matter what are your differences, the overwhelming answer would be,'Yankees, go home!'
Our arrogance is overwhelming if even on the liberal site we still think that we can 'impose' peace or war or whatever. Sad, folks.
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Mark Sashine (46 articles, 19 quicklinks, 234 diaries, 3348 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 7:25:54 AM
IIRC, Yitzak Rabin was leaning that way (he had at least apparently begun to negotiate in good faith) when the more rabid Zionists assassinated him.
In any case, as Paul Craig Roberts notes, the "War on Terror" itself is actually a war against Israel's enemies, the purpose being to prevent Israel from having to negotiate in good faith for a just peace with its neighbors.
Like Paul Craig Roberts, I blame U.S. creditors like China and Japan for allowing this madness to continue. I believe that if China or Japan started dumping dollars and dollar denominated assets, the economic crisis it would bring on the U.S. would not only stop Bush's next war, but it would force a halt to the outrageous sums of money propping up Israeli aggression and expansionism.
Somebody needs to pull the plug on the U.S. dollar, and they need to do it soon.
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jpsmith123 (3 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 287 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 7:33:20 AM
You are exactly right. Israel is going nowhere. If the US withdraws her support of Israel, then let her do it for Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Palestine and other anti-Israeli countries.
Most of the commenters agree with Hamas and wish for the absolute destruction of Israel.
Consider an illustration:
1. We love the people of America but we are going to do every thing we can to destroy all forms of the American government.
2. We love England but we are going to do all we can to destroy all forms of the British government.
3. We love Canada but we are going to do all we can to destroy all forms of the Canadian government.
4. We love Jews but we are going to do all we can to destroy the Israeli government.
How silly and illogical can you get? I am for the eight million Jews in Israel, but I want Israel destroyed?????
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pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 940 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 11:14:55 AM
Why won't we sponsor a conference? Not of governments or officials but of intellectuals, spiritual leaders, people's reps, ethnic leads, etc. from the region. Let them all, say be about a 1000 and let them gather in, say, Switzerland. And let them answer only one question- who is the most destructive force now in the region and whom do you want to oust. Reverend, I am afraid very much that the answer would be - the US. BTW, I am afraid to shatter your glass menagerie but even if you ask only Jews(!) in Israel, just perform an honest referendum, you might hear the same message. It is a very big possibility. You surely do not believe in that because you are filled with 'love'. To me it sounds like stalking, you know. Even on the St. Valentine's day.
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Mark Sashine (46 articles, 19 quicklinks, 234 diaries, 3348 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 11:44:33 AM
Let Hamas go to the UN to recognize Israel immediately and ask the UN for negotiations. Let them be willing to put on paper the right of Israel to exist and their promise to not try to destroy them. Until then, a state of war exists between Palestine and Israel because Hamas is the elected Palestinian government.
You know that to be true.
What Israel is doing in Palestine is wrong, but what Hamas is doing to Fatah and to Israel is evil.
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pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 940 comments)
on Friday, February 16, 2007 at 12:13:45 AM
"If the US withdraws her support of Israel, then let her do it for Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Palestine and other anti-Israeli countries."
LOL! The governments of most of these countries tolerate Israeli atrocities to the ridiculous extent they do only because they are basically puppet governments, propped up by the U.S.! The U.S. does not give billions to Egypt, for example, because of love for Egyptian Arabs; rather, the U.S. is propping up an unpopular government that has sold out its people.
"Most of the commenters agree with Hamas and wish for the absolute destruction of Israel."
"Consider an illustration:
1. We love the people of America but we are going to do every thing we can to destroy all forms of the American government."
Since the American government no longer represents the American people in any meaningful way whatsoever, that would actually be a nice thing to do.
"4. We love Jews but we are going to do all we can to destroy the Israeli government.
How silly and illogical can you get? I am for the eight million Jews in Israel, but I want Israel destroyed?????"
Not much more silly and illogical than what you and your government are, I'm afraid. Tell your sociopathic rulers to put down the guns, and start negotiating in good faith for a just peace with your neighbors. That's the only solution.
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jpsmith123 (3 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 287 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 12:11:41 PM
I am afraid the delusion is yours when you support suicide bombers and rockets going into Israel from outside their borders. Let France shoot a couple rockets into German villages and see what happens.
It is going to be solved part way when Israel finishes the wall. I hope they close their borders permanently to all Palestinians and turn east Jerusalem over to the UN for an open city for all people. Israel needs to force all Israeli citizens out of the Gaza and the West bank permanently and allow no travel between the two countries.
The Palestinians need to throw out Hamas, recognize Israel's right to exist and build their own state.
Let Israel leave the State of Palestine alone and let Palestine leave the state of Israel alone.
Until Hamas formerly recognizes Israel and is allowing rockets to be shot over the border and allowing suicide bombers to kill innocent Israeli civilians inside Israel, then Israel has every right to occupy Palestine and set up Marshall Law until the Palestinians create a government that will leave Israel alone.
I have a feeling you know all this, but you hate Israel so much you would like to see the state destroyed, also.
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pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 940 comments)
on Friday, February 16, 2007 at 12:30:51 AM
Which is what, I'm afraid, is the real prob. in the ME. Peace cannot be imposed picking one side over another; or even an outside brokered compromise which takes a neutral position (but is not in fact neutral since neutral is a relative term). No matter how much parties involved or not involved might want a true peace. When both sides in the ME really, really desire peace there, then it will begin.
After Iraq, this should be well understood. Saddam MADE Iraq out of 3 relig. tribes (actually it was done for him post WW2). Today, the wounded pride and loss of one tribe's power over their own domains, via opposing empowered tribes, make Iraq the civil war it is now. Of course, Dubya ignited the fuse, and the world does not thank him for his ignorance and revenge. But that's another thread.
Likewise, neither Israelis nor Palestinians will be happy with a peaceful compromise type deal anyone might force upon them. Such an enforced peace would only keep hidden the orig. animosities, but also keep them smoldering even hotter on the back burner, exploding even more furiously when the volcano of hate is ready to spew.
There will be another Iraq, this time in the ME, IF there is an enforced peace.
All I can see, and I read Middle East Peace For Dummies, is that somehow sometime the 2 sides will need to sit down and compromise between themselves a peace accord they all can be satisfied with. Rabid extremists on either side may not ever be happy exc. with total vindication. But these extremists can be better controlled by a leader on their own side who actually participates in a peace HE brought to his people, rather than the resentment of an outside "bully" like a USA imposing its own bullying peace conditions.
This may not occur for a very long time. But who knows? Maybe it might happen tomorrow. But lasseiz faire is the best tactic, IMO, and when it's right, peace will come to that region.
Of course, the USA is wrong to side with Israel and ignore Palestine's needs. Which I think is why Arbas across the world equate what they believe is US hate of Arabs equal to Israeli hate of Palestinian Arabs. And hence, we get 9/11.
Tough, serious prob. But the USA must restrain its overbearing and unwelcome imperialism as perhaps the very first step in tampering blazing passions there, which, by the very absence of outside influence(s), may be enough to allow at least an atmosphere conducive to real peace initiatives between the 2 sides in the traditional Middle East area.
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SushiFan (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments)
on Friday, March 9, 2007 at 4:29:46 PM
