As unrealistic as that may be, that's the way things should be.

What happens when God is on both sides of two opposing forces (in this case Democrats and Republicans)?

You get a neverending war because each side thinks it's right.

 

by Kevin Gosztola (302 articles, 146 quicklinks, 81 diaries, 1082 comments [77 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 6:56:36 PM

Hey Kevin,

I can appreciate your sentiment. However, there is a strong religous streak in most Americans and religionists have the same right to petition and lobby as any other special interest groups. The progressive Christian agenda is really basically the same as all progressives whether of faith or not. Compassionate public policy is at the heart of Progressive Christian ideals and that is a good thing.

by Gary Vance (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 17 comments) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 7:27:38 PM

If there is a moral code by which individuals in government make decisions, then there will be religion in government. The only question is from where will that moral code come. Is every individual a God unto themselves, fashioning the law by which they will live, or is there some external standard by which we are all to gauge our actions? The only other option is to legislate standards by which all shall live, something like fascism, where every citizen would daily commit his felony and duly submit to his punishment. 1984.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 7:32:07 PM

Micah 6:8 says, "He has shown thee oh man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you, do justly, love mercy and walk humbly..."

You don't have to be religious to see the wisdom in this scripture. Religionists don't have a patent on virtue, integrity, honesty, etc. You can't legislate such qualities any more than you can legislate morality.

by Gary Vance (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 17 comments) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 7:41:38 PM

I don't what you mean by legislate moraliy. Please give me a concise definition & site an example. As Bertrand Russell once said "If it was not for the morality of law, murder might have become a virtue".

by iman (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 89 comments) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 3:40:18 PM

No more than you can create foreign policy based on morality.

Legislation creates the "nanny state" that we live in.

It also creates affirmative action or other anti-racism laws that within time prove to have been a quick fix that failed.

When you peel back the morality laws, you see things on the surface aren't as bad, but they didn't get to where the laws hoped things would go.

 

by Kevin Gosztola (302 articles, 146 quicklinks, 81 diaries, 1082 comments [77 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 8:20:22 PM

Morality seems to be a really subjective concept.  I think compassionate policy is something that can be attained and it doesn't necessarily involve religion.  Compassion is universally represented by kindness.   Ambiguous moralistic concepts can be debated by religionists.

by Gary Vance (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 17 comments) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 8:25:39 PM

To be anti-Christ, is to be anti/against what Christ taught.


The term "antichrist" only appears five times in the Bible, but a cult not based on sound theology has created an urban legend that seeks Armageddon. The term "antichrist" never appears in John's Revelation or Daniel, two disparate works of literature written three centuries apart and under very different circumstances, yet the Left Behinder's weave them together.

The small texts that mention the "antichrist" were written to attack the Gnostic understanding of who Christ was. A Gnostic relies on intuition and not on dogma and doctrine. Gnostic's were most certainly free spirits and most all of the writings we have about Gnostics, have been the attacks upon them. That all changed when the Nag Hamadi Library was translated and published, for what had been deemed heretical by those in power in the fourth century can now be read in most every language.

Biblical scholars today agree that many books of the Bible were written by others in the name of an apostle, for the quickest way to gain credibility is to trade on another's reputation.

We may never know if the author who coined the term "antichrist" was actually the apostle John who wrote I John and 2 John-the only sources where the term appears.

John also say's much more:

"Dear Children,
...as you have heard that the antichrist is coming; even now many have come..."- I John 2:18

"This is how we know who the children of God are not: anyone who does not do right; nor anyone who does not love his brother."-I John 3:10

"If anyone has material possessions and see's his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? ...let us love with actions and in truth."-I John 3:17

"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. There is no fear in love. Perfect love drives out all fear because fear has to do with punishment." 1 John 4:16,18

The theology promoted in the "Left Behind" fiction is a theology based on fear and punishment.

The followers of this heretical theology worship a false god: a punitive father, who seeks obedience, is patriarchal, demonizes woman, gays, lesbians, and seek empire on this world and care naught for the fragility of Mother Nature. They resist what science offers, in particular they are antichristic in their refusal to see that stem cell research could lead to actual HEALINGS of diseases, and JC was very big into healing.

I cite John 5: 1-6, which in some readings is prefaced with an angel from heaven, would descend and agitate the waters of the Pool of Bethsaida. Only the first leper, blind, or invalid who made it into the water would receive a healing. One day while Jesus was there, he walked by a man who had been paralyzed for thirty-eight years. Jesus asked him, “Do you want to be healed?” The man answered he had no friends to help him get into the water first. Jesus asked him again, “Do you want to be healed?”

JC is always a gentle man, he never pushed anyone into anything!

The antichrist theology is the opposite and in the 21st century, these fundamentalists among are seeking theocracy based on fear of others and seek empire in this world.

Not at all what JC was about; he was about liberation from the bondage of corrupt teachers of The Law, that God loved ALL and the Kingdom of God is NOT of this world.

 Antichrists do not have eyes to see that nature is God's primary temple, and war the greatest abomination.

During the time when the writer of John was writing about the spirit of antichrist, Gnosticism was still in its evolution and far from the intricately developed system of the second and third centuries when the church and its institutional hierarchy became firmly established. During the time John was writing against the false teachings, the Gnostics were by and large libertines who denied Christ's humanity. Some said that Christ only appeared to have a body; others said the divine Christ joined the man Jesus at his baptism and left him when he died.

The Gnostics left no testimony in their behalf, so all we have to go on is what was written against them and the texts that survived and are now the Nag Hamadi Library. These texts offer no new information but prove that early Christian's were just as diverse as Christians today.

The Armageddon groupies believe they will be lifted out of the misery of the world, and neglect to reflect upon the antichrist within, which is how centuries of theologians understood the term. For many, the term anti/against Christ means to be anti/against his teachings.

 

Christ was ALWAYS pointing to the Father, saying he only did what the Father wanted, and the prophet Micah summed it up best:

"What does God require? He has already told you o'man! Be JUST. Be Merciful! And walk humbly with your Lord."-Micah 6:8

The antichrists take certain scriptural passages literally, and totally neglect those they do not want to see or hear. Such as, Matthew 12:31-32, Mark 3:28-29, and Luke 12:10 which are simpatico with Gnostic Thomas saying 44:

Jesus said: "Whoever blasphemes against the father will be forgiven, whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either on earth or in heaven."

The Holy Spirit, AKA the spirit of God is within all created things.

One should wonder what spirit is driving those that torture and bomb another, for just who would Jesus torture and bomb?

No religion owns God and no church owns Jesus.

Jesus has been hijacked by the right wing fundamentalists and the time of his liberation from the antichrists is NOW.

 

Christ was no Christian, that term was not even coined until three decades after he walked the earth. But JC was a social justice radical revolutionary Palestinian devout Jewish road warrior who challenged the job security of the temple priests and disturbed the status quo of the Roman Occupying Forces for teaching subversive ideas such as all people are equal and valuable.

The antichrists of today, neglect the non-negotiable's that JC commanded that his followers must do: LOVE, pray for and forgive your enemies, treat all people the way you want to be treated and remain NONVIOLENT, even if nailed to a cross.

Christ dealt compassionately with sinners and outcasts, but hypocrites received his wrath.

Compassion, which is sorrow for the suffering of others, is accompanied by the urge to help. This should define the Christian attitude.

If there is no compassion within a Christian, then it is the spirit of the antichrist that rules.

 

e

 http://www.wearewideawake.org/

by Eileen Fleming (172 articles, 101 quicklinks, 274 diaries, 650 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 10:33:26 AM

that what I just wrote? Or have you not read 1984? Everyone has a moral code. The question is from where it arises. Most Americans derive their moral code from the Judeo-Christian ethic, whether they are "religionists" or not. They, therefore, carry religion into politics whether you want it there or not. Hence, my headline of IMPOSSIBLE. On the other hand, secular humanists see themselves as being able to fashion their own moral code depending upon changing circumstances. This places the individual in the role of God, and is a religion unto itself. Again, religion carries into the government, but with no way to predict how the government might react to any particular set of circumstances. No matter his protestations to the contrary, the Bush administration is an excellent example of a secular, humanist administration: one where Bush has substituted the tried and true morality of his forebears for a set of moral rules based upon the expediency of the moment. And finally, as you seem to agree, and as all of the founding fathers believed, a nation bound by an internal moral code was necessary for a Constitutional Republic to continue to exist. Otherwise, all conduct would have to be legislated, and government would become immense, a God for all intents and purposes. I believe you called it the nanny state. I call it fascism.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 7:24:56 AM

 You said, "Most Americans derive their moral code from the Judeo-Christian ethic, whether they are "religionists" or not."

What are ethics and how do we get them?  Liberals generally believe there is something inately good in humanity.  Morals seem to be a subjectively defined term more attached to religion.   Ethics however, seems to have a more universal and perhaps more ambiguous and even eclectic origin.  I think the world at large understands and is more amenable to universal standards of ethics than any specific religion's demands for adherence to particular creeds or tenets in government.  Fascism and theocracy go hand in hand.  Justice, integrity, compassion etc. should be the guiding ethics of civil and effective government.

by Gary Vance (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 17 comments) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 7:56:35 AM

Paul NEVER hesitated expressing his freedom of speech and provoking believers to THINK deep.

 

What Paul said was:

"Who am I to judge the nonbeliever? IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS! God is the judge of all...But, the believer is to provoke their sisters and brothers onto good works."

 

 

Jesus said: "I came that you would have life to the FULL: ABUNDANT life." [John 10:10]

 

He was NOT talking material wealth-he was talking about THINKINK DEEP and then taking action.

 

e

by Eileen Fleming (172 articles, 101 quicklinks, 274 diaries, 650 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 10:38:52 AM

Before Emperor Constantine brought Christianity into the mainstream, all the early Church Fathers taught that Christians should not serve in the army but instead willingly suffer rather than inflict harm on any other.

St. Augustine was the first Church Father to consider the concept of a Just War.

Within 100 years after Constantine, the Empire required that all soldiers in the army must be baptized Christians and thus, the decline of Christianity began.

With the justification of war and violence supplied by Augustine’s Just War Theory, wrong became right.

Nothing much has changed in two millennia, for in today’s Orwellian world politicians claim the way to peace is through war and that nuclear weapons provide protection.

I don’t care who wears the uniform, or how noble they believe their cause, war is the ultimate form of terrorism for any civilian caught in the crossfire of violence. Even as a kid, I could not understand the logic that promoted the need for Hiroshima and Nagasaki to save American lives; and why there was never a mention of repentance for the innocent that died. Eisenhower warned America not to bind our economy to the Industrial Military Complex. But, like most prophets, he was ignored.

In 313 AD, Emperor Constantine legitimized Christianity and thus, those who had been considered rebels and outlaws began to enjoy political power and prestige.

Jesus’ other name is The Prince of Peace, and with the marriage of church and state, his true teachings were reinterpreted.

The justification of warfare and the use of state sponsored violence corrupted what Christ modeled and taught. Jesus was always on about WAKE UP! The Divine already indwells you and all others.

Christ taught that to follow him requires that one must love ones enemies; one must forgive those who hate, curse and revile them, without a thought of payback.

Christ lived a life that proved evil can be opposed without being mirrored, and that the cycle of a “tooth for a tooth, an eye for an eye”, will never bring peace and justice.

Before Emperor Constantine brought Christianity into the mainstream, all the early Church Fathers taught that Christians should not serve in the army but instead willingly suffer rather than inflict harm on any other.

The term Christianity was not coined until three decades after Christ walked the earth. Until the day of Paul, followers of Christ were called members of The Way; the way being what he taught!

Christ was never a Christian, but he was a social justice, radical revolutionary Palestinian devout Jewish road warrior who rose up/intifada and challenged the corrupt Temple and disturbed the status quo of the Roman occupying forces by teaching that God was on the side of the poor and the outcast.

Clement, Tertillian, Polycarp and every other early Church Father taught that violence was a contradiction of what Christ was all about.

There have always been those Christians who spoke out against this corruption of scripture and they have been ignored, reviled, rejected, mocked, persecuted and maligned throughout time.

There have always been Christians who have never abandoned the true teachings, such as the Quakers, Mennonites, some Catholics and Protestants who have been faithful witnesses to Christ by denouncing violence and caring for the poor.

There have also always been Jews, Muslims, atheists, anarchists, secularists and other’s who have lived lives that embody the message of Christ.

e

by Eileen Fleming (172 articles, 101 quicklinks, 274 diaries, 650 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 10:45:22 AM

Christians, Jews, and Muslims are capable of basic decency. 

by John Hanks (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1760 comments [39 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 9:21:42 PM

 EVOLUTION VS Religiosity

 

 

"I said, 'You are "gods": you are all children of the Most High God."-Psalm 82:6

It has been said that evolution is being held up by fundamentalism and the surge of fundamentalism throughout all faith paths sends shivers through cynical atheists and mystics alike. The bumper sticker actually did get it right: "We are spiritual beings having a human experience."

According to the 1987 classic, The Different Drum: Community Making and Peace, Dr. Scott Peck defines the spiritual life as fluid and that one may pass back and forth repeatedly through any of the four-probably more-stages of the soul.

Stage one upon this journey -that begins from within-is essentially our infancy in the spiritual life. Like a wild child, a person in this stage reflects the inner chaotic and anti-social, unregenerate soul that is interested only in its own self-satisfaction and ego, much like the stereotypical spoiled child. Stage one people may claim to love others, but their behavior reflects they love their own pleasure, money, power, prestige, and security above any other. For stage one people, it really is all about them.

The good news is that the vast majority of humanity responds to that inner tug which is God, for lack of a better word. Catherine of Sienna wrote that within us all is the divine diamond. But life and all our baggage dulls the flame of our divine brilliance. Stage two souls seek to "let their light shine" and will live virtuous lives and do many good works. They also can be judgmental of others, self-righteous, rigid of thought, cold of heart, legalistic concrete literal thinkers and may even be guilty of a lukewarm faith. They want to do right and they even may desire to love and please God, but have not yet fully opened up to the Inner Light, as Joan of Arc did when she challenged church and state and persisted that she had intuited God within -even while being fried.

Stage two souls have not yet been set fully free and prefer the security of a higher human authority than themselves for guidance. They submit to institutions, scripture, dogma, ritual, ministers, or gurus. This is the most appropriate stage for older children and most adults who live busy lives just trying to keep bread on the table and a dry roof above. The difference between a stage one and stage two soul, is that a one wouldn't even notice a neighbor in need, while the two has awoken to the fact that we are to be our neighbor's keepers and they will respond to a friend-and like the good Samaritan, even to a total stranger in need.

Most theologians would agree that the opposite of faith is not disbelief: the opposite of faith is fear. Stage three souls have not just fearlessly awoken, they have evolved! This evolution has led them to the realization of what Christ was really talking about in the Sermon of the Mount AKA:The Beatitudes.

 

 

Now, a stage three soul may well reject Christ as God, but often agree with the philosophy of Jesus, which Thomas Jefferson laid out when he weeded out the miracle stories from the gospels and clarified the teachings and ethics of Christ in:

THE LIFE AND MORALS of JESUS of NAZARETH

1. Be just: justice comes from virtue which comes from the heart.
2. Treat people the way we want to be treated.
3. Always work for PEACEFUL resolutions, even to the point of returning violence with COMPASSION.
4. Consider valuable the things that have no material value.
5. Do not judge others.
6. Do not bear grudges.
7. Be modest and unpretentious.
8. Give out of true generosity, not because we expect to be repaid.
9. Being true to one's self in more important than being loyal to one's family...those who think they know the most are the most ignorant...

 

 

A stage three soul will see that a neighbor is everyone on the planet and not just those who think and look the same. Stage three's are seekers, doubters, skeptics, atheists, agnostics and frequently adults who grew up disenchanted with institutionalized religion. Their inherent intellectual curiosity leads them to seek their own way towards the Mystery of the Divine through philosophy and the study of multiple faith paths choosing and discarding according to their "inner light."

 

Stage three souls often become activists for social justice and reform and it has been said we are all called to be mystics in the market place; which is a stage four.

 

Two examples are Thomas Merton and Rumi who gave voice to that experience of the curtain being lifted and seeing through the glass a bit less darkly.

A mystic can best be understood as one who is in love with the divine mystery and is viscerally connected to the unity of all creation.

Mystics are not navel gazers, they feel the pain of the world within their hearts and grieve at what humans do to the other when they have no clue that The Divine is within the other as much as within themselves.

Mystics have detached from their concepts of God-not by their own efforts, but by the invitation and action of God upon a willing and simple soul in love with Pure Being, AKA:God.

 

 

The mystic fool, Saint Francis, the leper kisser of Assisi, was so head over heels in love with God in everyone and all of creation that most people of his time considered him crazed, or at least, extremely eccentric.

One needn't be a mystic or move beyond stage two on the spiritual journey to do what is good and right just because it is good and right.
 
On that foundation alone people of faith, atheists and agnostics can surely find something to agree upon.

"I said, 'You are "gods": you are all children of the Most High God."-Psalm 82:6

Or would only a mystic see that?

 

 

e

 http://www.wearewideawake.org/

by Eileen Fleming (172 articles, 101 quicklinks, 274 diaries, 650 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 10:51:00 AM

You are so right. I'll take decency...even from humanists,agnostics and atheists.

by Gary Vance (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 17 comments) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 9:26:21 PM

The fundies generally subscribe to the rapture cult, which beckons nuclear war.  They also believe in dispensationalism, which basically allows believers to cheat and amass money in this life with impunity, as well as dominionism, which touts US hegemony.  Do the progressive Christians address these issues?  Peace, Carol Wolman

by Carol Wolman (230 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 113 comments [17 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 9:51:55 PM

Hey Doc,

Great question... yes the Progressive Christians take a more realisitic approach to living in the here and now. Social justice, compassionate policies, accountability for the use of the time we have now and utilizing the resources at our disposal rather than the fatalistic and dispensational mentality of fundies. Most progressives don't embrace rapture theology. We believe in making the most of every day and trying to humbly affect our world for the better through love and peace building endeavors.

I love your work and especially your handling of Romans 13.

Peace to you!

by Gary Vance (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 17 comments) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 10:11:04 PM

But I question a progressive Christian telling a Christian fundamentalist that he does not understand God.

Right or wrong, the response to that telling will never be good.

And so I'd rather just keep religion out on both sides of the aisle.  

by Kevin Gosztola (302 articles, 146 quicklinks, 81 diaries, 1082 comments [77 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 10:15:32 PM

Kevin,

There is a scripture that says, "Great is the mystery of Godliness." Who can tell anybody they don't understand God unless they are willing to say the same thing to themselves? The whole attitude of moral superiority stinks even if it comes from atheists. I truly believe in the concept of "separation of church and state." I do not believe in the concept of separating integrity, justice, mercy and compassion from government. If these qualities can flow from the religious into legislation, then bring it on. If they can flow from secular humanists...bring it on.

 

by Gary Vance (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 17 comments) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 10:36:18 PM

I would never advocate removing integrity, justice, mercy and compassion from government.

by Kevin Gosztola (302 articles, 146 quicklinks, 81 diaries, 1082 comments [77 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 7:38:14 AM

On what basis do you believe the government should reflect integrity, justice, mercy and compassion? (By the way, according to "The New Oxford American Dictionary" each of these traits can be considered a moral value). Were you born with a gene that causes you to believe these qualities in a government will produce the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people for the greatest length of time? Certainly most of the great political theorists would disagree with you. On the other hand, did you absorb these ideas through your culture? If so, from where? Do you believe in the idea of inalienable rights? If so, why would any rights be inalienable? Do you believe that all men and women are created equal? If so, why? All of these ideas come from the Judeo-Christian tradition. So how are you different from everyone else? Now, if you really want to break with that tradition and put a completely different type of religion into government, I suggest a thorough reading of Marx and a conversion to Marxism/Leninism, where the Party grants rights and establishes the moral code by which the society it rules will live.

If you want to understand what you are arguing about, I suggest "CHURCH HISTORY IN PLAIN LANGUAGE" by Bruce Shelley, Word Publishing, 1995.  The world as we know it would not exist but for the Church.  We owe a great debt to the historical church and the thousands of martyrs upon which she was built.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 2:28:19 PM

I believe there will be a taking up of believers (rapture) at some point in the future. I do not believe that this rapture is up to man/Bush etc. in precipitating

Armageddon/rapture etc. In other words... you can't take heaven by force.

    Unfortunately, many extreme fundamentalists believe they are on a mission

from God to blow away the Middle East population to bring on the end of the world.  This is what Bush is doing with the full support of woefully deceived

extreme fundamental Christians. Their hearts have been turned to stone as

they view the killing of hundreds of thousands of people. They do not exhibit the love of Jesus, they are wrong, definitely wrong. Bush is obviously now planning to involve us with Iran, he plans to start another war.

     The signs of the times are indeed obvious to the Bible believing Christian.

Unfortunately, most Christians have been duped and deceived as predicted.

They have been deceived because they really don't understand what Jesus

was teaching.  "They believed the lie."  The lie is the propaganda machine

fed to us daily through our filtered media.

      "Progressive" Christians see through the lie. I really don't like the use

of labels as it tends to put things in limiting boxes.

       If you study the life of Jesus you will see his actions are the exact opposite of our current president and his supporters. John McCain will follow

in Bush's footsteps. So if you want more war, more death, more killing, more

lies, then vote for McCain. In fact, our government is so infiltrated with evil

right now it might not matter who you vote for. 

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 7:51:34 AM

When I began observing the difference between fundamentalist and normal Christians, I was surprised at what I learned while researching the topic. I read the entire "Left Behind" series, which unfortunately became a movement in itself - and now there are millions that await being "raptured" and view a Middle-East War as the catalyst that will bring forth the second coming of Christ. Those that harbor such beliefs are the most dangerous and parallel radical's that exist in the Islamic religion. (IMO) There are extremely strong factions within the United States that also believe it is their God-given right to take the United States "by force" if they are not able to accomplish it politically. Religious zealots, no matter where they exit, are a danger to all when they begin to appear in positions of power. LINK (At the end of that article, two Christians battle it out, and neither ever agreed on anything except that the other one was wrong.) 

I was told that Rick Warren had distanced himself from the "Left Behind" game that is being sold to our youth through several mega-churches but haven't seen the documentation, and honestly believe if he has, it's only for publicity purposes. He is a man that has massive support and a plan to create an army one billion strong of "Christian Soldiers." LINK 

Unfortunately, humanity has gone through several periods of heightened religiosity, usually when there are other serious issues in the air, and every time it caused hundreds of thousands, and at times, millions of innocent murders performed in the name of God. 

I enjoy being around true Christians but abhor the Looney tunes that seek to force their values on others, even if it requires violence.

William Cormier 

by William Cormier (152 articles, 11 quicklinks, 21 diaries, 418 comments [9 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 9:11:16 AM

Left behind what Jesus was ALL about:

Loving, forgiving and blessing one's enemies-NOT bombing, torturing or occupying any!



I wrote a challenge to the LEFT BEHIND series of putrid literature and heretical theology in KEEP HOPE ALIVE:



The following Book Reviewer was unsolicited and written by an American Jew and published first @

 

from www.midwestbookreview.com:

"At first I thought this had something to do with the famous line of Jessie Jackson. I'm delighted to say it is much, much more. The author shows that there are many people from all over the world who are moving in the right direction to establish peace in the Middle East. The organization Olive Trees Foundation for Peace/OTFFP is Arabs, Jews, and Christians who have formed a non profit non political group who have one goal; to have Israelis and Palestinians live side by side in peace.

"These are people from all walks of life who are committed to changing the area into a peaceful region. Social movements like this grow until finally government jumps on-board. This is so counter to the policies of the Bush administration. As dialogue continues to grow on this subject government will be forced to rethink its approach to the region. This is a book that should be read by anyone does not believe there can be peace in the Middle East. It should also be included in schools and on the college level to help focus on how the area can move toward peace." – Gary Roen






The first of my five journeys into Israel Palestine resulted in "KEEP HOPE ALIVE".

This tale is a fictionalized retelling of the well remembered memoirs of a 1948 refugee from the Upper Galilee who made his way to the USA and realized the American dream. After a lucrative career in the Defense Industry during the Cold War and THAT DAY we call 9/11, Khaled Diab brought together American Jews, Christians and Muslims to respond to evil with good by founding the 501 3-c Olive Trees Foundation for Peace.

"Keep Hope Alive" tells his story and is an historical chronology with connections to antiquity, and hope for the future.

"Keep Hope Alive" is also my spiritual journey told with humor and insight through six fictional characters who represent six ways to intuit God.

 

100% OF ALL ROYALTIES for KEEP HOPE ALIVE are donated to the OTFFP to provide the funds to replace the over one million trees that have been destroyed because of The Wall and we are planting trees on BOTH sides of The Wall in Israel Palestine.

Eileen Fleming, Reporter and Editor WAWA

by Eileen Fleming (172 articles, 101 quicklinks, 274 diaries, 650 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 11:03:50 AM

Ignore all else, or talk to God about it. I've heard more than enough on religion for the next 100 lifetimes.

by Daniel Geery (26 articles, 95 quicklinks, 126 diaries, 912 comments [26 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 9:17:09 AM

As a recently departed reader of and blogger for Cross Left, I do applaud Gary's article and hope all the best for Cross Left.

 

But, I cannot resist in sharing a few tid bits I hope he-and you dear reader- will meditate upon and in Christian lingo-meditate means THINK!

 

It is NOT just the fundamentlaist neo-con Christians who lust for Armageddon and believe they will be raptured out of the world before a nuclear holocaust, that we the people must challenge and resist;

 

There is also a spirit of self-righteous pomposity within the Western Christian world that adheres to only one way to God and has cut themselves off from their very roots in the land where Jesus promised:

 

"IT IS THE PEACEMAKERS WHO ARE THE CHILDREN OF GOD"-Matthew 5:9

 

The term 'Christian' was not even coined until the days of Paul, about 3 decades after Jesus walked the earth a man.


Jesus was a social, justice, radical revolutionary Palestinian devout Jewish road warrior who rose up and challenged the job security of the Temple authorities by teaching the people they did NOT need to pay the priests for ritual baths or sacrificing livestock to be OK with God; for God already LOVED them just as they were:

Sinners, poor, diseased, outcasts, widows, orphans, refugees and prisoners all living under Roman Military Occupation.



What got Jesus crucified was disturbing the status quo of the Roman Occupying Forces of his time, by teaching the subversive concept that Caesar only had power because God allowed it and that God preferred the humble sinner, the poor, diseased, outcasts, widows, orphans, refugees and prisoners all living under Roman Occupation above the elite and arrogant.






The early followers and lovers of Jesus were called members of THE WAY-being THE WAY he taught one should be; Nonviolent, a Peacemaker and one who did the will of the Father .


"What does God require? He has told you o'man! Be just, be merciful, and walk humbly with your Lord." -Micah 6:8




Jesus remained NONVIOLENT and forgiving even while being mocked, whipped and nailed to a cross and he promised that it is the Peacemakers who are the children of God, not the peace-talkers, not the 'road map' makers who defy international law and deny human rights.


2,000 years ago The Cross had NO symbolic religious meaning.



When Jesus said: "Pick up your cross and follow me."



EVERYONE then understood that he was issuing a POLITICAL statement, for the main roads in Jerusalem were lined with crucified agitators, rebels, dissidents and any others who disturbed the status quo of the Roman Occupying Forces; for crucifiction was Rome's method of capitol punishment.

 

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http://www.wearewideawake.org/

 

 

by Eileen Fleming (172 articles, 101 quicklinks, 274 diaries, 650 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 10:21:01 AM

another and ignoring the premise. It's not an argument about belief in Christ--my Christ over your Christ--it's an argument about the proper place for religion in government. The 25 million evangelicals have run off with a government also owned by 25 million atheists.

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
        -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

We are now (and have been for some time) at the point of picking pockets and breaking legs. 

by Jim Freeman (108 articles, 53 quicklinks, 227 diaries, 386 comments) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 1:09:00 PM

This is the very point I attempted to illuminate when i wrote about the religiosity and pomposity in The Body of Christ in USA.

 

There is TOO much religion and NOT enough spirituality in the USA.

 

Religion gives the rules, doctrines, dogmas and has been used to control the members of the sect as it DIVIDES people from other religions.

 

JC was always on about UNITY; being ONE and God LOVES diversity, or She wouldn't have created so many different beautiful colors of people with diverse thought!

 

God doesn't want to be bored-He/She/??? certainly would be if we all related to the Ultimate Mystery in the sane way.

 

Spirituality connects us the the Divine Mystery within ourself and ALL others; and ALL of Creation.

 

Tom Paine was a deist, but he GOT the essence of the message that Jesus brought:

Respecting and loving and doing good towards ALL people!

 

NOT just those who share your POV, look like you and are born in the same geographical territory:

 

"Soon after I had published the pamphlet "Common Sense" [on Feb. 14, 1776] in America, I saw the exceeding probability that a revolution in the system of government would be followed by a revolution in the system of religion... The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."-Tom Paine

 

IMAGINE when COMMON SENSE returns to the heartland; it will force out FEAR-and fear always leads to a cold heart.

 

What we need is a spiritual evolution revolution that will lead to a transformation of hearts and minds to see EVERYONE is an embodiment of The Divine.

 

In solidarity "we have it in our power to begin the world again."-Tom Paine

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by Eileen Fleming (172 articles, 101 quicklinks, 274 diaries, 650 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 2:27:28 PM

WHAT JESUS REALLY SAID

PROHIBITIONS- Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and your mother and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

ON RICH AND POOR-Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted. THE MEEK-Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. ON THE OPPRESSED- Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled. ON POVERTY- The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man has not where to lay his head. And she said, the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. ON THE RICH- A rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. - be perfect, go and sell all that you have, and give to the poor, and You shall have treasure in heaven and come and follow me.. It is easier for a camel to go through the eyou of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

 

ON THE PEOPLE- Who is my mother? and who are my brothers? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brothers! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. ON THE COMMON PEOPLE- Go you therefore into the highways, and as many as you shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good and the wedding was furnished with guests.

 

ON THE MERCIFUL-Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy. ON THE PURE- Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. ON THE RIGHTEOUS- Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

ON PEACE AND VIOLENCE- Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God. You are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. ON VIOLENCE- Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again your sword into his place or all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.ON KILLING- You have heard that it was said of them of old time, You shall not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment

 

ON THE LAW- Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil (with justice). He was a hungry, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him. And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man worth more than a sheep? Therefore, it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days (and contravene the law).

 

ON VENGEANCE AND FORGIVENESS-You have heard that it has been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth But I say unto you, That you resist not evil but whosoever shall smite thee on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him two. Give to him that asks you, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not away. FORGIVENESS- For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you But if you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if you from your hearts forgive not every one his brothers their trespasses.

 

ON LOVE- You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That you may be the children of your Father for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love (only) them which love you, what reward have you? And if you salute your brothers only, what do you more than others? Be you therefore perfect. And the second is like unto it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. For I was a hungry, and you gave me meat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink I was a stranger, and you took me in. I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came unto me. I say unto you, Inasmuch as you have done it unto one of the least of these, my brothers, you have done it unto me.

 

ON GENEROSITY- But when thou give alms, let not your left hand know what your right hand is doing That your alms may be in secret and your Father which sees in secret himself shall reward you openly. ON MODESTY- But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you hast shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly. ON HUMILITY- Whosoever shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receives. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted

 

ON JUDGING OTHERS- Judge not, that you be not judged. And why do you notice the straw that is in your brother's eye, but notice not the beam that is in your own?

 

ON ACTION-Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you For every one that asks receives; and he that seeks finds; and to him that knocks it shall be opened.. If you let them alone they’ll be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. ON BELIEF- O you of little faith, why did you doubt? ON SILENCE- Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works. What I tell you in darkness, that speak you in light and what you hear in the ear, that preach you upon the housetops, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. Fear them not therefore for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known, for the tree is known by his fruit And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul (the ideas). ON COURAGE-And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake but he that endures to the end shall be saved . Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad for great is your reward in heaven for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. ON STRUGGLE- Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves be you therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

ON LABOR- staves for the workman is worthy of his meat. Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.ON EQUALITY- It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.

 

ON OPEN-MINDEDNESS- Who has ears to hear, let him hear. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which you see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which you hear, and have not heard them. He that has ears to hear, let him hear. ON CRITICISM- Moreover if your brother shall trespass against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone if he shall hear you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear you, then take with you one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church but if he neglects to hear the church, let him be unto you as an heathen man and an official.

 

ON PROSPERITY- And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude. And they did all eat, and were filled and they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full. And they that had eaten were about five thousand men, beside women and children. And he took the seven loaves and the fishes, and gave thanks, and brake them, and gave to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude. And they did all eat, and were filled and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets full.

 

ON CELIBACY- For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

 

ON BANKERS- And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but you have made it a den of thieves. ON GREED- For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

 

ON CHURCH AND STATE- They say unto him, the coin is Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

 

ON SOPHISTRY AND HYPOCRISY- which is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifies the gold? You are fools and blind for which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifies the gift? Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone. You blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. You blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. O generation of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people came unto me with their mouth, and flattered me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

 

ON FALSE PROPHETS- For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. But beware of men for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their institutions.

 

ON CORRUPTION-. ON TREACHERY- Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests, And said unto them, What will you give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him. But Peter denied before them all, saying, I know not what you say. And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man. And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely you also are one of them; for your speech beTrays you. Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. ON INFILTRATORS- Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, is likened unto a man which sows good seed in his field But while the man slept, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the weeds also.

 

ON SACRIFICE- And the governor said, Why, what evil has he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified. When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person see you to it. The Mary and others went to the sepulcher, and saw that he was not there, he was risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And they departed quickly from the sepulcher with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word. Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The (sacrifice) is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field, which indeed is the least of all seeds but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in the branches thereof.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

by Guajolotl (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 131 comments) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 2:58:10 PM

About 2,000 years ago, when Christ was about 33, he hiked up a hill and sat down under an olive tree and began to teach the people;

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven."

In other words: it is those who know their own spiritual poverty, their own limitations and sins honestly and trust God loves them in spite of themselves who already live in the Kingdom of God.

How comforted we will all be, when we see, we haven't got a clue, as to the depth and breadth of pure love and mercy of The Divine Mystery of The Universe. God's name in ancient Aramaic is Abba which means Daddy as much as Mommy and He/She: The Lord has said, "My ways are not your ways. My thoughts are not yours." -Isaiah 55:8

Christ proclaimed more: "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."

The essence of meek is to be patient with ignorance, slow to anger and never hold a grudge. In other words: how happy you will be when you also know humility; when you know yourself, the good and the bad, for both cut through every human heart.

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, they will be filled."

In other words: how happy you will be when your greatest desire is to do what "God requires, and he has already told you what that is; BE JUST, BE MERCIFUL and walk humbly with your Lord."-Micah 6:8

"Blessed are the merciful, they will be shown mercy." In other words: how happy you will all be when you choose to return only kindness to your 'enemy.'

"For with the measure you measure against another, it will be measured back to you." Christ warns his disciples as he explains the law of karma in Luke 6:27-38.

"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they see God."

In other words: how happy you will be when you WAKE UP and see God is already within you, within every man, every woman and every child. The Supreme Being is everywhere, the Alpha and Omega, beginning and end. Beyond The Universe -and yet so small; within the heart of every atom.

"Blessed are The Peacemakers: THEY shall be called the children of God."

Oh how happy the WORLD will be when we all seek justice and pursue it, for there can be none without the other.

 

"Blessed are those who are persecuted because they do what God requires, theirs is The Kingdom of Heaven."

 

And one fine day the lion will lie down with The Lamb and man will make war no more and that is the Kingdom of God.

 

 

My 'mentor' guide inspiration is Dorthy Day who said to US CHRISTIANS:

 

 "Love is not the starving of whole populations. Love is not the bombardment of open cities. Love is not killing......Our manifesto is the Sermon on the Mount, which means that we will try to be peacemakers."

 

If a Christiand has no love for the least and oppressed; they are just blowing "IDIOT WIND"-Bob Dylan

 Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'

 

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'

 

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 click here

by Eileen Fleming (172 articles, 101 quicklinks, 274 diaries, 650 comments [16 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 5:07:16 PM