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Tag(s): Fascism-Cant Happen Here; Left Wing; Liberalism; Polarization
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June 25, 2007 at 10:55:04

Do We Not All Want This?

by Andrew Bard Schmookler Page 1 of 2 page(s)

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The main political division in our nation today is between those who oppose the dark and dangerous fascist force that’s come to power in America and those who –deliberately or out of ignorance—give that force their support.

But you’d never know that from how much of the energy on the liberal-left is devoted rather to disputing the differences among their factions. How much is the fascist problem to be understood as embodied specifically in this Bushite regime and how much as embedded in the American political system generally? How much are the Bushite evils a departure from the general pattern of American history and how much an extension of it? Should the Democratic Party be seen as an essential tool for defeating this fascist evil and how much as an inseparable part of it?

Judging from the amount of energy some people devote to these quarrels, one would think it is those issues that define the most important political divisions in today’s America. If asked whether those quarrels can be set aside in order to make common cause for the common purpose of defeating a common enemy, some of these people will declare that they cannot. If we disagree on such fundamental issues, they declare, there’s no way we could unite on a shared political message.

I think that’s wrong.

Can we not all agree that we want a president who does not use American power like a bully?

Can we not all agree that we want an administration that does not practice torture?

Can we not all say with moral passion and sincerity:

We want a president who does not run roughshod over the Constitution and the law!

We want a president who does not lie continually to the American people!

We want a president who uses his power to help the weaker victims of injustice rather than the mightier perpetrators of such injustice!

We want a president who respects honest inquiry and the understanding that research and knowledge can provide!

We want a president who does not love war, and who is not drawn to create conflict and division!

We want a president who cares about the health of the earth, and about future generations!

We want a president, and a Congress, that takes seriously and honors their oaths of office!

(This is a list that could be expanded.)

Do we not all agree on these things? Do we not agree that these are declarations that need to be heard more prominently in America today?

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15 comments

A writer is a rogue goose. All other gees fly in a flock formation; every goose knows his place and time for honking. The rogue goose is undisciplined. He leaves the formation indiscriminately to have a look at it from aside. He roams back and forth, takes a peep at the leader, honks a little bit from behind, distracts everyone and writes on what he sees. Time passes and as he wants to return back to his place he discovers someone else there. Thus he either has to wait until they land for rest...

to see more of bio, click on member name
Mark SashineA writer is a rogue goose. All other gees fly in a flock formation; every goose knows his place and time for honking. The rogue goose is undisciplined. He leaves the formation indiscriminately to have a look at it from aside. He roams back and forth, takes a peep at the leader, honks a little bit from behind, distracts everyone and writes on what he sees. Time passes and as he wants to return back to his place he discovers someone else there. Thus he either has to wait until they land for rest...

to see more of bio, click on member name

I agree wholeheartedly

but I would really love to see one more:

We, the people of America want the President to be qualified for the job and every morning to remind to himself that he is our employee.

by Mark Sashine (50 articles, 19 quicklinks, 242 diaries, 3437 comments) on Monday, June 25, 2007 at 12:56:29 PM

Andrew Bard Schmookler's website www.nonesoblind.org is devoted to understanding the roots of America's present moral crisis and the means by which the urgent challenge of this dangerous moment can be met. Dr. Schmookler is also the author of such books as The Parable of the Tribes: The Problem of Power in Social Evolution (SUNY Press) and Debating the Good Society: A Quest to Bridge America's Moral Divide (M.I.T. Press). He also conducts regular talk-radio conversations in both red and blu...

to see more of bio, click on member name
Andrew Bard SchmooklerAndrew Bard Schmookler's website www.nonesoblind.org is devoted to understanding the roots of America's present moral crisis and the means by which the urgent challenge of this dangerous moment can be met. Dr. Schmookler is also the author of such books as The Parable of the Tribes: The Problem of Power in Social Evolution (SUNY Press) and Debating the Good Society: A Quest to Bridge America's Moral Divide (M.I.T. Press). He also conducts regular talk-radio conversations in both red and blu...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Additions

I can support that. And perhaps the list of such additions can be expanded here.

by Andrew Bard Schmookler (301 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 141 comments) on Monday, June 25, 2007 at 1:01:34 PM

Mark A. Goldman is an activist, author, financial planner and recent unsuccessful Candidate for Congress.
Mark A. GoldmanMark A. Goldman is an activist, author, financial planner and recent unsuccessful Candidate for Congress.

What we all want...

But can't we say the same thing about our elected representatives? Don't we want members of congress to honor their oath of office? Don't we want members of congress to think for themselves and not hand over their honor and their judgement to party officials who insist that all members of the party vote as a block? This is about more than just how we want a president to behave. How should honorable people behave?

http://www.gpln.com/livethedream.htm

by Mark A. Goldman (81 articles, 2 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 243 comments) on Monday, June 25, 2007 at 5:21:27 PM

Sure

Perhaps you didn't notice this one, "We want a president, and a Congress, that takes seriously and honors their oaths of office!"

I thought of putting more about Congress in there, especially on the one about protecting the weak victims of injustice rather than serving the mighty perpetrators of injustice.

My own view is that a good proportion of what's wrong with Congress stems from the fascist administration in power --either feeling compelled to follow the Bushites' lead or being intimidated from taking them on too vigorously-- but that's not the whole of it.

The question, however, is what are the declarations on which ALL the people on the liberal/left are in passionate agreement? What do we ALL agree is true and important to be said now in America?

by Andrew Bard Schmookler (301 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 141 comments) on Monday, June 25, 2007 at 6:05:44 PM

Sure, but

My view is that one of the things that keeps the status quo in place is the unwillingness of citizens on the left to let go of the past... the idea that the only people who can win elections (and therefore the only people I will be willing to vote for) are democrats, well known public figures, or the wealthiest citizens among us. In order to keep that distorted view of democracy in place, citizens continue to refuse to honor their own true values and dreams. They vote for people who can win rather than people who, if supported, would bring fresh ideas into the political arena. We vote for short term wins when there is a long term struggle in front of us. We are like corporations that strive for increased profit numbers for the next quarter rather than striving to create an enterprise that is sustainable over the long run in support of universal peace and justice. Democracy will continue to wither and eventually die if we do not begin to vote our conscience and honor the truth when it is spoken. We see that already our social consciousness is damaged with the decline of our institutions. Citizens are apathetic and disconnected. Our standards have declined along with our belief in our own dreams and our willingness to preserve them. Until this illusion is exposed for what it is, we will not be able to repair our broken country.

http://www.gpln.com/livethedream.htm

by Mark A. Goldman (81 articles, 2 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 243 comments) on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 at 10:17:00 AM

57Yo m I'm a "been there, done that! Bought the tee shirt,to hide the scars!" type of person Ive workedï¿½many jobs fromï¿½a chicken slaughterer to managing a branch of a multinational and many jobs in between.Raised in colonial PNG Left School 16,Grad Hi school 22 Night School, University 36ï¿½ BBus (majored in Psyche and Marketing), Dip Comp prog and project Mmnt.at 50 I've been in 48 different community org ,23 on board with 18 prez or deputy prez.First social campaign at 17 for the aborigine...

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Andris57Yo m I'm a "been there, done that! Bought the tee shirt,to hide the scars!" type of person Ive workedï¿½many jobs fromï¿½a chicken slaughterer to managing a branch of a multinational and many jobs in between.Raised in colonial PNG Left School 16,Grad Hi school 22 Night School, University 36ï¿½ BBus (majored in Psyche and Marketing), Dip Comp prog and project Mmnt.at 50 I've been in 48 different community org ,23 on board with 18 prez or deputy prez.First social campaign at 17 for the aborigine...

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Do we have a choice but to have all this?

Andrew, well spoken but life isn't, in a democratic environment quite that simple. It would be impossible to get a president that everyone agrees with. Everyone needs to be heard as individuals. Everyone has different slants or takes on issues depending on there experience or interests. It seems to me therefore that the best we can hope for is a good compromise one based on sound fundementals emboding secular agreed values. This has been done but where it has come unstuck is the structures and ideologys that support the system.

Unfortunately both the US and Aus inherited a fuedal legal systems based on interpretation of black letter law which allows our systems to run amok.

The more regimented authoritarian systems of the world have tended to be those that lasted longest ie the Spartans and the Romans. Even the jews have survived not because they blended in but but because they didn't. Mind you this differentiation has always come at a price suspicion and victimization.

One is therefore able to extrapolate that the reason why the GOP and the religious right has succeeded is because it has the same almost militaristic organization. They have the added advantage to be able to claim tax free status.

Democracy by definition must be largely chaotic (everyone having their say) everyone wanting something different in short not be united or organized under a single banner. The moment heirarchy is added to the mix it by definition ceases to democracy. So in reality Andrew, what we're really seeking a system of government that acknowledges the individual. See my opening statements.

The question You pose is how can we (incorporate) the organized non democratic opposition without becoming them? Good question I don't know . But when I find the answer I'll post it.

by Andris (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 531 comments) on Monday, June 25, 2007 at 10:09:01 PM

The point is, this is what we DON'T have now

I'm sure we'd be all over the map about who we'd choose as president. But we're not all over the map in rejecting the law-breaking, lying regime we've got now.

The point of the declarations above is not really to talk about some preferred candidate. It's a way of calling the attention of Americans to how dangerous and despicable this Bushite regime we've got is.

by Andrew Bard Schmookler (301 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 141 comments) on Monday, June 25, 2007 at 10:38:03 PM

Have been a soldier, an intelligence analyst, an engineer, a physicist, and a writer.

Right now mostly a writer.
camHave been a soldier, an intelligence analyst, an engineer, a physicist, and a writer.

Right now mostly a writer.

Are the Dems a real alternative?

What assurances do you have that the Dems are a real alternative to the current regime? Aside from a few notable exceptions, they seem indistinguishable from their opposition in their boundless capacity to first create a morass and then wander into it.

In the next year, as the sun sets on the Bush presidency, the Democratic Congress will progressively assume ownership of all morasses. By the time we go into the elections there will be little to recommend them over their opponents - especially if they field an unpopular/uncharismatic presidential candidate.

Ideology aside, the Dems have no option but to expose the excesses of the current regime and to distance themselves from them before they assume responsibility for them.

It has to be done to ameliorate some of the long-term consequences. For the sake of the country.

It is taking the Dems an incredibly long time to realize this. Really, they have no option but to exercise their constitutional power to the fullest extent. Their tentative attempts at reigning in the Executive are reminiscent of the Iraq invasion: they need far more commitment or the enemy will morph into something that will ultimately defeat them.

They also need to get some Republicans to cross the aisle - why isn't it happening?

In short, if the Dems cannot see their clear duty to their electorate, both constitutionally and ideologically, then they don't deserve to be elected.

by cam (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 54 comments) on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 at 10:20:24 AM

Joel S. Hirschhorn is the author of Delusional Democracy - Fixing the Republic Without Overthrowing the Government (www.delusionaldemocracy.com). His current political writings have been greatly influenced by working as a senior staffer for the U.S. Congress and for the National Governors Association. He advocates a Second American Revolution, beginning with an Article V Convention to propose constitutional amendments. He is Chair of the Independent Party of Maryland.
Joel S. HirschhornJoel S. Hirschhorn is the author of Delusional Democracy - Fixing the Republic Without Overthrowing the Government (www.delusionaldemocracy.com). His current political writings have been greatly influenced by working as a senior staffer for the U.S. Congress and for the National Governors Association. He advocates a Second American Revolution, beginning with an Article V Convention to propose constitutional amendments. He is Chair of the Independent Party of Maryland.

Declarations are just another form of self-delusion

So much talk and ranting, but NOT ACTION. This declaration crap is all talk - for what purpose?? To make you FEEL better. This is pure empty self-medication. When what we need is a concerted effort by like-minded people to pursue strategies to CHANGE our government and political system for the better. That is why hundreds and hundreds of people who see our dark, dismal national condition have joined Friends of the Article V Convention, so that a path can be created to turn such declarations into necessary systemic changes in the structure of our government, so that evil people like Bush and Cheney cannot hijack our nation; learn more at www.foavc.org and become a member. Don't stay stuck on being depressed or voting for Democrats.

by Joel S. Hirschhorn (126 articles, 30 quicklinks, 57 diaries, 505 comments) on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 at 8:24:30 AM

So there is no longer a problem that the American people lack full awareness of what has been happening with the way power is being wielded in America. They already fully understand that they are being ruled by lying, law-breaking thugs.

I had the misimpression that America --while disapproving of a failed war-- still did not see that a clique of fascists had been making a full-out assault on the long-established American way of government.

And so the problem isn't really that these forces have been disregarding and dismantling our Constitutional system. The real problem in America is that the Constitution itself is wrong.

I'd been laboring under the misimpression that no system of laws, no set of protections and checks and balances, can enforce itself. (Not to mention the misimpression that the existing Constitution had managed to prevent this kind of wanton grab for dictatorial powers for over two centuries.)

But I guess I should be ready to acknowledge the wisdom of having a Constitutional convention, so that the same public that re-elected these gangsters (or at least about half of them wanted to) after their crimes and lies were visible, and went to the polls believing a whole slew of things that even the headlines of the mainstream media showed were not true, should be empowered to ratify a wholesale revision of America's founding document.

I guess I should recognize all the signs that the America of today is far more capable of understanding the challenge of erecting a government that will safeguard liberty and justice than were those old-fashioned jerks, with their quaint ways of thinking, who convened in Philadelphia in 1787.

by Andrew Bard Schmookler (301 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 141 comments) on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 at 10:09:17 AM

Geery lived off the grid for 15 years in an earth-sheltered, solar heated home, while his kids learned in school that solar energy isn't feasible. NAPTA hosts a page on Geery's foibles in education, and explains how he got his butt fired from a tenured teaching position. Here's a short clip of his most recent solar contraption; for more on that project, and Geery's contention that the Wright Brothers took a wrong turn, please visit his airship page (hyperblimp.com). Apparently, Geery is the only...

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Daniel GeeryGeery lived off the grid for 15 years in an earth-sheltered, solar heated home, while his kids learned in school that solar energy isn't feasible. NAPTA hosts a page on Geery's foibles in education, and explains how he got his butt fired from a tenured teaching position. Here's a short clip of his most recent solar contraption; for more on that project, and Geery's contention that the Wright Brothers took a wrong turn, please visit his airship page (hyperblimp.com). Apparently, Geery is the only...

to see more of bio, click on member name

What we need, in my opinion

Andrew and Joel both make sense to me.

But don't the people already have the power, and simply fail to exercise it? We could have voted for Barry Commoner back in the seventies; we could have kept Carter in; we could now have laws with teeth to bite the ass off the assholes; we could have Kucinich running the country (check his issues page if you haven't already).

Why don't we? I suppose there are many reasons, but many of us did work for Barry, would have voted for Carter, have fought for stronger laws, and actively advocated for Dennis (who would have fixed the voting system). What's the difference between us and those who didn't do these things?

Some of us were somehow able to see the problems that needed fixing, and we gave enough of a damn to do something about it. Now even if you say that Bush was placed in office, which anyone does who's looked into it, you have to accept that at least 40% of Americans voted for him. Forty percent of our voting population had an active hand in getting us where we are today! Look around you and realize that at least 4 out of 10 people wanted Bush in office a second time.

Let's face it: We're morons.

On the other hand, anyone who wants to stay alive on the planet must necessarily be an active environmentalist. As Dave Brower used to like to say, "Everyone who isn't an environmentalist has a sapient environmentalist in them."

What wakes them up? Knowledge. Awareness. An Emperor of Japan in the 1800s woke up to the fact that the country he was passing on to his heirs was going to be denuded wasteland. Now Japan is covered with healthy forests, even though it has one of the highest population densities.

Keb Mo has a song, "Victims of Comfort." That's what we are, for sure. People don't like to go past that comfort zone, and many quickly avert their eyes if they do. My own take is that if we can make people aware enough of what's going on, it doesn't matter if we have socialism, communism, democracy or something else. Read the Communist Manefesto and you'd think it was written by Thomas Jeffereson. But human corruption seems to set in in every system of government.

How to change that? If you don't have an aware, educated population, I think it's fair to say, we ain't gonna make it. On the other hand, with an aware, educated population, it doesn't matter a whole lot who's president, king, or even dictator. A benign, aware, caring dictator is fine by me. If it wasn't so much work, I wouldn't even mind being one--I know how to do it, as that's what a good classroom teacher is by nature.

But at this point, I guess I better shut up and go do something...

by Daniel Geery (26 articles, 58 quicklinks, 121 diaries, 690 comments) on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 at 10:19:36 AM

Robert Chapman is greatly interested in developing political awareness among as many people as possible.
Robert ChapmanRobert Chapman is greatly interested in developing political awareness among as many people as possible.

Unity is important

Mr. Schmookler has raised a lot of issues and there are lot of different ways to look at what he has written, but perhaps taking a page from the opposition can lend some light.

I recently checked a book out of the library with a title something like, "How to Beat the Democrats." It goes without saying that the book was written by a couple of GOP strategists.

They devoted a whole chapter to party unity and the solidarity of the Right. They pointed out that in the 2000 election Buchanan got 1% of the vote and Nader got 3%.

So obviously, solidarity has some value, but how does the left, without control of the organs of power establish an agenda that we can coalesce around and support?

For better or worse, we are stuck with the Democratic Party and its legal status as the vehicle for the expression of our beliefs and mobilization of our power.

Maybe the day will come when that situation has changed, but to create that change we have to use the tools at hand.

Progressives and others sympathetic to the left might be better served if we use this Congress to build a legislative agenda, rather than bewailing the gridlock in Washington.

The continual emphasis on punishing the GOP and others for past actions through impeachment and endless investigations, rather than seeking to implement corrective action strikes me as a major weakness among left-wing activists.

A comprehensive program of new proposals, even if Bush vetoed every item and nothing passed, wll provide a platform with which we could go into the 08 election with in a positive, coherent and progressive manner.

I urge my fellow readers to put forth proposals and to lobby the Democratic leadership to introduce them.

To me that is better than whining all the time.

by Robert Chapman (28 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 556 comments) on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 at 1:10:52 PM

I'm a retired 63 year old, who was a Psychotherapist, Social Worker and Social Services Executive. I'm married with 2 children and one grandchild. My life has been committed to helping people and to advancing social/political/economic fairness for all. Besides politics my interests are reading, writing, baseball, and travel. I began to obtain wisdom (I hope) when I came to realize just how ignorant I am.
MikeSpindellI'm a retired 63 year old, who was a Psychotherapist, Social Worker and Social Services Executive. I'm married with 2 children and one grandchild. My life has been committed to helping people and to advancing social/political/economic fairness for all. Besides politics my interests are reading, writing, baseball, and travel. I began to obtain wisdom (I hope) when I came to realize just how ignorant I am.

Self-Defeating Comments

Mr. Hirschman,

This is the second of your comments that I've come across in the past ten minutes. Both comments disparaged the writer, without apparent comprehension of the points being made, and then went on to extol what you believe is the "one true way" the Article V. convention. If, as it seems, you are trying to convince people to follow your solution, perhaps you'd best be served by a less vitriolic means of getting their attention.

by MikeSpindell (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 7 comments) on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 at 1:46:20 PM

A member of the new subculture: under-educated (high school, some college, no degree)
PLRA member of the new subculture: under-educated (high school, some college, no degree)

On Article V

Quote from the web page: "

Yet in spite of the fact that ALL 50 state legislatures have submitted 567 applications (far in excess of the two-thirds requirement) requesting a convention call, Congress has ignored its constitutionally mandated duty. Some Americans fear a convention. This fear, based upon half-truths, myths and outright false hoods, helps to justify the congressional veto of direct constitutional text and denies the people their right to amend the Constitution without government interference or oversight. They say that such a gathering could become a "runaway" convention -- re-writing or over-turning parts or all of the Constitution. They ignore the fact that the Framers also provided a safety mechanism to prevent such a fiasco: all amendments proposed by the convention must be ratified by three-quarters of the states before they become effective. There is no danger that radicals on either side of the political spectrum could bring about such an outcome."

Umm, if we actually believe that Bush was ELECTED by the citizenry of this country, it is ENTIRELY conceivable that such a disaster could take place.

If, however, the current president is not a legitimately elected representative of the people, then we need to address that issue, and make sure that our election and voting processes are clean as a whistle before we attempt anything like this. Otherwise, the powers that be will have a very unique opportunity unlike any that has befallen them to this point. The outcome of a debacle such as that would be absolutely horrifying.

by PLR (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 7 comments) on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 at 3:35:51 PM

Don'pigeon hole me or sterotype me
pratliff94Don'pigeon hole me or sterotype me

Well Written, Andrew.

Andrew,

I agree entirely with you. The greatest danger of getting anything done is a stubborn unwilliness to compromise on any point. We must be careful that the ideal does not destroy the good, and allow someone like GWB to take over again.

I want a national health, single pay policy, I want a real graduated income tax, I want universal education for good and serious students as far as they want to take it, I want strong unions, I want EPA enforced, I want the Anti-trust and Anti-monopoly laws enforced (especially when it come to the media); I want universal draft-if it breathes it is drafted at eighteen years old for two full years; I want a revision of penal codes; I want felonies dropped after five yeara of good behavior; I want to see only violent criminals put behind bars and this includes Paris Hilton. I want...

Can I get it all, no, but I want some of it.

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 962 comments) on Thursday, June 28, 2007 at 12:36:05 AM