As a Muslim, you just grow up hating Jews. As soon as you start understanding things, you are brainwashed with how the Jews of Medina had insulted and fought with our beloved prophet. This starts at a early age when Muslim kids haven't grown old enough to know how to question. So, they never get to know the details. They just grow up with that hatred of the Jews ingrained in their heart and mind.
Although I personally grew up a believing Muslim with engaging myself nominally with the rituals and scriptures (which was the case with more than eighty percent of the young people during that time), I also grew up with that hatred against the Jews without ever meeting one, nor knowing the details of the circumstances that had lead to the conflict between the Jews and our Prophet. For the first time, however, I raised the question of why Muslims have to hate the Jews when I was a third-year undergraduate student, while discussing about some event that took place in -Israel/Palestine with a few friends (more religious and knowledgeable in Islam). The answer I got was that the Jews fought and insulted the prophet and Allah says in the Koran that Jews are a cursed people who will never find a abode to live in peace (my recent investigation into Islam finds it absolutely true). That was a good enough a reason – when Allah (the Creator) has said so, it does not require any further questioning and explanation. I didn't question it for another 15 years until the following experience that changed my life significantly.
Before I paid a visit to Bangladesh in early 2002, a few months after the parliamentary election, I was already saddened with what had happened to the Hindu minorities in the post election days. The Jamat-e-Islami aligned nationalist coalition, lead by Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP), which had trounced the Islamo-secularist incumbent Awamy League Govt., went on a rampage against the people aligned with the defeated party. The ever insecure Hindu community which traditionally votes for the secular parties had to bear brunt of this horrendous campaign most. Rapes (including gang-rapes), torture and humiliation (with incidence of striping and parading the Hindu women around the village) became widespread according to media reports. One investigative report by the most popular English newspaper, Daily Star, had cited they had interviewed nearly 1000 Hindu women and girls being raped and gang-raped in a single district. The age of the victims ranged from an 8 year-old minor to a 72 year-old grandmother.
When I arrived home, I had more to learn about. I learned how activists of the defeated party, even of the Muslim background, spent months in terror. Some of them, who did not have tribal muscle-power and got caught, were paraded around the locality with garland of shoes round their neck. A subsequent media outcry and international condemnations forced the government to crackdown on such violence and violations, after the barrage of defiant denials in the initial weeks.
This left a lasting mark on my mind which probably changed me forever. Instituting a government based on the Islamic ideals is the vision of the Jamat-i-Islami party. BNP is the slightly moderate Islamo-nationalist party, whose founding father changed the constitution of Bangladesh from secular (instituted by the founding father of defeated Awamy League in the 1970s) to an Islamist one in the 1980s. These two parties combined represent the Islamic face of Bangladesh. All these flagrant violations of human dignity and rights happened under their stewardship and patronage. Whether real Islam had anything to do with it or not; what struck me most is that so long there will be divides between people, like Hindu-Muslim barriers, such things will continue to happen. Nothing is worth this, whatsoever the true Islam may represent.
Earlier, I knew how the Hindus had to move out of East Bengal and later Bangladesh in tens of millions to India because of the treatment they got at the hands of the majority Muslims. I myself had the experience of foiling a bid of kidnapping my Hindu classmate (girl) to force her into marry a Muslim thug (who had dropped out from my class a few years earlier). I played a crucial role in foiling the bid by alerting the girl and her family and helping them escape to India. I considered my effort in this incident a great gesture of kindness to my classmate, without realizing for a long time how much distress and pain the whole thing might had have caused to the victim, who had to abandon their ancestral homes of centuries forever.
Although my outlook on life took a humanistic turn after this, never did I leave the fear of being burned by Allah in the fire of hell. I still thought there was probably something very worthwhile in Islam. Else why would so many people believe in it? Why were so many people converting to Islam? Why is it the fastest growing religion? And why are so many Westerners, including some famous ones like Cat Steven, also converting to Islam? But what ensued in the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) meeting in Kuala Lumpur in March 2003 changed my life once and for all.
Mahathir Muhammad was my greatest Islamic leader, whom I used see as a model for the Muslim world's movement towards moderation, prosperity and development. Never did I realize that there is so much poison (Islamic) in the mind of this highly acclaimed leader – both in the East and the West. I was so disappointed with his OIC speech that I wrote a criticism of it, which I have linked below. This critic was incidentally picked by a professor from Rutgers University for a book (Beyond Jihad – Critical Voices From Inside Islam) she was planning on political Islam. However, that Mahathir speech definitely changed my life and perspective of the world forever. I became much more sympathetic to the people of other religions (including the Jews) than I was before, which they definitely deserve, not less if not more. The terrible treatments doled out to the Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and Jews etc. in any Muslim-dominated country in the world on a daily basis even today would easily justify my sympathetic views of them by any standard of logic.
This also marked the commencement of my journey of finding out what is there in Islam that can fill the mind of 1.4 billion Muslims with such poisonous and cruel thoughts and utter degree of irrationality as reflected in Mahathir's speech. After studying Islam (Koran & prophet's biographies) to a great deal, what I found is that it all comes from the Koran and life of the prophet Muhammad and that they are totally undeserving of the Jews.
Being a Jew myself and being quite intimately acquainted with the Moslem population of the Middle Asia and Azeri district of Caucasus as well as with the numerous Moslem groups in Caucasus I unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) cannot concur with Mr. Hussein's experience especially about ' children growing up hating Jews' etc. On the contrary, the intelligent people in all those places I mentioned considered Jewish teaching inseparable from the teachings of Islam and I myself read many books, meticulously translated, written by local writers( both old and contremporary) where Moses was of highest regard. It was told to me many times by various people that hatred towards anyone(not just the Jews) was brought and infiltrated by the external forces, that religion was being abused by various sects. No poems I have read, written by various Moslem poems mention anything bad about the Jews. There are also ancient Christian poems ( one of which, The Knight In The Tiger's Skin is the national book of the country of Georgia) where mutual relationship between the warriors of Islamic and Christian kinds are held in high regards. Horrible and deadly anomalies in many of those places were accompanied in many cases by killing of the first and foremost the intellectuals and moderates of their own, so that they could not stop people from becoming mad.
I am not disputing the unfortunate experience of Mr. Hussein. But I will vehemently protest against (1) imposing as a given that '1.4 billion people are brainwashed'. and(2) against 'becoming a subject of love'.
The first is a tragic arrogance- no individual in the world can be so arrogant as to judge the 1.4 billion people. And the second is personal- as a Jew I do not want to be 'loved'. I want to be left alone. Please, do not love me or my fellow- Jews. Stop hating us and go away. That is the best thing people can do to other people in many cases.
As one comedian of my childhood said once rather sadly, 'Not all people are Jews.'
by
Mark Sashine (53 articles, 19 quicklinks, 250 diaries, 3574 comments)
on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 at 8:51:25 AM
Anyone versed in history will know that both christian and jewish communities flourished in the Middle East for centuries. The Koran recognises both Moses and Jesus as important prophets.
That anti semitism is common NOW due in large part to Israel's unenlightened treatment of the Palestinians and her neighbors is true enough. But, as Panurg so perceptively notes, any blanket statements about over a billion folks should be most suspect.
I wonder at the increasing numbers of folks with arabic names who come here with deceptive and misleading "personal information" about events and actions. How many of these folks work in Langley I cannot help but ponder........
What on earth Pratliffe read into Panurg's comments I havent a clue.........
by
ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments)
on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 at 5:33:28 PM
Denial is good. Only three of the world's Muslim countries recognize Israel. People like you will definitely tell these are the worst Muslim countries playing slaves to the unjust and barbaric Israeli nation. But fact don't lie. Jordan and Turkey are the most moderate and civilized countries in the Muslim world.
And once again numbers never lie. If you had read Dr Mahathir Muhammad's 2003 OIC speech, focusing on the ultimate aim to destroy Israel, was failed as the historic and the most popular speech in OIC's life-time.
About the position of the Jews in Islam; of course, the prophet initially recognized some of the precept of the Jewish and Christian religion to draw them to Islam. When they steadfastly rejected his religion and Muhmmad became powerful enough, he put the sword at their throat. Pick any biography of the prophet written by pious Islamic scholars and historians and find out what happened to the Jews of Medina. The innocent Jewish tribes were attacked, seized and exiled or slaughtered en masse in Medina where had Muhammad emigrated to a couple of years earlier. The messages remain the same in mosques and Muslim conferences across Europe, Australia and North America.
In 631 CE, just months before Muhammad's death - this verse was revealed to seal the final status of the Jews and Christians in Islam:
Quran 9.29
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
People of the book are Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians and other monotheists who lived in Arabia during Muhammad's time.
by
Muhammad Hussain (21 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 23 comments)
on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 at 7:22:27 PM
Mr Hussain. I am shocked an appalled at your comments and use of the Qur'an. Do you know of this verse
3:7 He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
How can you explicitly take a verse to your liking and throw it to the world? It is the same as verses of Jihad when in more than one instance the word Jihad in the Qur'an is used for the greater one - and that is the battle of one's soul.
This verse describes what you have written and commented on. You have chosen to take the face value of the AYAT and interpreted in the manner you deemed fit. Throughout my years of growing up until now, age 30, not ONCE have I ever been taught what you have. All my teachers in New York, who were Jewish, I loved. I can stay here and argue with you for a very long time, and prove you so wrong, because I am a Muslim, Shia, preacher, and would never stand for what your comments are. I have learnt, and continue to learn, but when you quote the Qur'an to your suitings and likings, I pray for you to see the light of Islam in it's true fashion.
panurg is correct to the T,and I thank him for trying to enlighten persons such as yourself.
by
Nazir Khaki (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 6 comments)
on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 at 9:47:44 PM
Thanks mnkhaki. Good to know that there are a good pool of Muslims, like you, who love the Jews defying the command of Islam. You are the hope but not sure if we will ever hear your voice - except the cries of Islamophobia. Having said that I must emphasize the reality. Mahathir's speech, which outlined an strategy of acquiring power by taking cues from the Jews for destroying the Jews (I mean Israel) in the end was hailed as the greatest speech in OIC's history in the Muslim world. That's what matters in reality.
About verse Q 3:7, it was revealed early in Medina, when Muhammad was trying to draw the Jews & Christians by quoting some of the stuffs from the Bible. Some of his quotes were factually incorrect and when the Jews pointed to the inaccuracies, Muhammad devised this verse to tell the Jews and Christians that some of the things in the Bible which the latter did not understand. Only Muhammad understands them.
So you too are asserting that Jews & Christians don't understand their scripture; in their heart is "perversity". Good for you. If the same is asserted say, by a Jew in Saudi, Iran or Islamabad - the poor Jew is destined for what happened to their co-religinists in Medina in the 620s. Like prophet, like followers. Civility is something so missing among the Muslims - of whatsoever variety they might be.
One more thing, this verse was revealed when Islam was like a child around 622-623 CE. The one I cited (9:29) was revealed in 631 when Islam was mature like an adult; just months before Muhammad's untimely death. What a child say is definitely not final; what a mature adult says is.
by
Muhammad Hussain (21 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 23 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 8:20:06 AM
I think you need to explain the principle of "abrogation" which is practiced by almost all Islamic scholars. I think Mr. mnkhaki is well aware of it, but does not want an unsuspecting public to know about it.
by
pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 969 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 11:33:04 AM
Mr Hussain. I think you have surfaced, or tried to surface, in being the "different" Muslim by quoting for all. Maybe in your little community, or this speaker you mention, have a little thing that is considered widespread.
Quran AYAT may be revealed during a certain period of time, but it applies to all of mankind. Read the "chain on yokes" verse in the 36th chapter. It describes the proud and arrogant, and your post was nothing but a hint of pride and a cause of sympathetic appeal by shunning Muslims in general. You were the 'savior' for this Hindu woman - do you really think you did something great? Allah (swt) helps in mysterious ways and you were there due to His thanks. For everything in the end, returns to Him, but you know that as it says in various different ways "Wa ilayi Thurja'oon".
And finally, you beautifully say that Jews and Christians don't understand their scripture. Really? Where?
And furthermore you say one verse was revealed when Islam was a child. Don't you know that the entire Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad in one instance, but as the Qur'an points out that "He was not to speak of it unless commanded?"
Are you asserting then, that God did not know what he was revealing? It's a shame. By concluding with CHILD and ADULT, you are saying God's words were less of a value in the beginning than in the end. I think you will be one to destory the facet of Islam. And I URGE you to read Sura Hujarat as much as possible and understand the tolerance Islam has, and will always have for the People of the Book.
Sincerely yours,
MNKHAKI
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Nazir Khaki (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 6 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 3:51:39 PM
First, I want to thank Mnhaki for his words. I am not an expert, just my experience was the one I had and I am happy, that not only mine. Second, Mr. Hussain apparently does not like our positive experiences which took place fairly recently when, per his own words 'Islam is mature' and he also seems to develop his own criteria of what country is good or bad (never heard of good and bad countries before) or what religion is good or bad. That criteria is his own interpretation of the attitude towards Jews,or rather towards Israel as a country because apparently it is my understanding that Mr. Hussain would be OK with Islam and all its books as soon as Islamic countries (good or bad, whatever) recognize Israel formally. Such perception, dear Mnhaki 'abrogates' or 'nullifies' any reasonable argument because it just means that if Israel did not exist as a country (say, Jews still live in diaspora only), Mr. Hussain would have no 'fleas to itch'.
I do not believe in any God. Atheism has its own advantages and disadavntages, granted. But one of its immense advantages is the absolute and total perception that any explanations of the behavior of the people and cultures and especially of the political actions on the basis of the Holy books of any religion do not hold water. Like Mencken said 'The problem with Christianity is Christians...' I thus do not care what was said in Quran when it comes to politics. There are people and there are interests. Those dictate. And if I decide to 'touch' the religion, any religion, I first and foremost would start from the premise that I do not know anything about it and most likely will never know a lot, the same way we address Mona Lisa or Notre Dame de Paris.
Still pays off to pass by..
by
Mark Sashine (53 articles, 19 quicklinks, 250 diaries, 3574 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 12:28:39 PM
The Qur'an also says "To us our deeds, and to you, yours, and peace be upon you" and this is directed at the comments of Hussain. Like I said, I pray for his guidance, and that of pratliff 94 who says "I think Mr. mnkhaki is well aware of it, but does not want an unsuspecting public to know about it." Honestly, I don't care who knows what - but it is the evil that floats around which should be shunned and the truth exposed.
Generalising opinions, which I see both have done without a substantial backbone, can crumble in due time. It doesn't deter me that there are so many thoughts.
Again, as I quoted the Qur'an, and as my final words on this issue "To us our deeds, and to you, yours, and peace be upon you".
(Ah yes Mr Hussain, while I know when and where it was revealed, again, it is a universal message.) Ahsante Jazakallah.
by
Nazir Khaki (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 6 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 3:57:25 PM
Perversity is in the heart of the Christians & Jews..
[(Ah yes Mr Hussain, while I know when and where it was revealed, again, it is a universal message.) Ahsante Jazakallah.]
That's what I want say in my essays as you say. Quran is for all time & its message in this verse is: "Christians & Jews are idiots; they don't understand their scriptures; perversity is in their heart.
BTW, All verses are not universal. If two or more verses on similar topic, the earlier ones get cancelled or abrogated.
"Q16:101 - When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages)..."
by
Muhammad Hussain (21 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 23 comments)
on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 at 7:08:45 PM
Please do not worry. When Mr. Hussain says we love Jews, we will be careful to not include you. Elie Wiesel, the icon of the Holocaust, we will include him and the twelve million Jews for whom you do not speak. I have a God Who loves you even if you do not want Mr. Hussain and I to love you. You will go into eternity with Him loving you.
by
pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 969 comments)
on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 at 4:41:11 PM
But I beg to differ. I do speak for the Jews. Lots of the Jews. Including those whom either I knew personally or whose story I know. real people whom I care for. Everyone has his duty to perform and I have mine. You will not forget my voice, that's for sure.
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Mark Sashine (53 articles, 19 quicklinks, 250 diaries, 3574 comments)
on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 at 5:29:46 PM
I would not want your voice to be silenced for anything in the world. In the free market of ideas, all are important, not all are right. Every one has a right to be heard and respected.
I feel the same way as you. We just differ.
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pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 969 comments)
on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 at 5:51:26 PM
Shame on you, Esbe. I do not think Panurg is sick. I bet he doesn't even have a fever!
I like Panurg, all right. He has a right to his opinions, and he is an excellent writer; however, I did not think he was sick. It is free country and he can be wrong if he wants to be.
Panurg, are sick? Maybe we can get a national health policy passed once we get rid of Bush and you can see a doctor without costing you thousands of dollars.
Almigir, are you sick? No.
I am not either sorry, Esbe. You must have sent this comment to the wrong article. We all feel pretty good about around here.
Are you sick and wanted our help? Hope you get well.
Oh, you said "sock puppet". Panurg is not a "sock puppet" either. I don't think Alamigir is. I probably am, but that is my wife's business. She calls the shots around here.
Esbe, are you a "sock puppet", too? I am not sure if I know what a "sock puppet" is. Are they nice? Is it something everyone should try to become? "Sock puppet." Hmm sounds good to me. I was called good looking the other day. Is it like good looking?
Now Panurg, if he was talking about being good looking, he was talking about me. If it is ugly, he is talking about you.
Look out. He may be a she. Esbe, Esbe. Probably she.
by
pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 969 comments)
on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 at 5:44:36 PM
Thank you for relaying your journey through Islam to us. You will catch "it" from those who comment here, but I hope you will not despair. They believe that Fatah, Hezbollah and Fatah are the "cat's meow." They are so wrong.
I hope you will keep writing. I began studying Islam seriously in 1994 as I saw some of the most atrocious things being done by followers of Islam. I had friends living in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria, and Nigeria who were bringing story after story back that were nauseating of thing they saw in those countries. I was persuaded that those doing it were radical Muslims and exceptions to the case of normal Muslim Mullahs or clerics.
The more I read the more disgusted I have become with the violence perpetrated by those following Islam and with the lack of respect for human life: from the "fatwah" on authors, cartoon writers, multiple bombings, suicide murders, drug trade, official lies and so many other things.
I began asking myself why the "normal" Muslim leaders did not speak out against them. Was it because of fear? No, not fear. There are almost five million Muslims in the United States and I have no idea how many in the free world (non-Islamic) who were not speaking out. Why were not the freer Islamic countries speaking out such as Jordan, Egypt, Indonesia and some of them? I have come to the conclusion that they are a part of it.
I am not the only one who is watching, hearing, reading, learning, writing and teaching. We have always given Islam a pass in this country. I went to college with a student from Iran whose name was Mohammed S. His father was the fourth most powerful man in Iran. He was pretty devout. He said prayers in the morning in our dorm and in the evening. I would see students at North Texas State University or Oklahoma University and other universities in Muslim garb. We always tried to be friendly to them, but never gave them another thought. The events of the past twenty-five years have us looking very close at Islam.
Twenty-five years ago, I nor any of my friends could tell you anything about Islam except their holy book was the Koran, Mecca was their holy city, and there was a Mosque that the Jews did not like on the Temple Mount. We had seen "Lawrence of Arabia" and thought all Muslim were like Omar Sharif.
These friends and their friends numbering into the thousands can now tell you much about Koran, Hadith, and Sunnah. They tell you tell you about Sunni and Shiite and the differences. They knew these things well before 911.
What we see, we do not like and even fear, but fear in a healthy way. We are not afraid of them for their suicide bombers. We faced suicide bombers with the Japanese in WW II. In fact the Japanese soldiers died to a man on Iwo Jima, all twelve thousand of them. These suiciders are not different. Most of us would die as soon as they would, but not intentionally. We deeply desire to live, but I am not afraid of death, after all we are dying. It is not a matter of if, but when. If we die it would be dying for freedom, for our families and for what is right. It has nothing to do with religion. Right is right. Right is never wrong. Right is never evil. Right is just right. Right is worth dying for.
Thank you for sharing. I have learned much and will pass it along to those whom I know.
by
pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 969 comments)
on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 at 5:21:03 PM
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