...if they can't or won't protect a teenage page, they can't or won't protect your vote. Politicans are numb to the idea of violation except when it happens to them.

by Amanda Lang (23 articles, 14528 quicklinks, 442 diaries, 731 comments [17 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 9:32:20 PM

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There are people out there who know what Kenneth Blackwell is doing. There are people out there who are helping Blackwell cheat the vote. When these people realize Blackwell has no political future, and that democrats in their newfound state power will use subpoena rights to investigate the last several elections, somebody will come forward. But only the first ONE who comes forward will be lionized by history, made famous by the national press coverage, and crowned king of their newfound celebrity. They will be remembered throughout history as constitutional guardians who corrected one of the most abusive systems of voting discrimination in history. They know who they are, and they know that history will discover Blackwell's secrets eventually. The truth always comes out. They can choose to be seen as the villains and wait until history finds them out, or they can be heroes while there's still time. The book deal would fetch them additional tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.

by Dean Powers (138 articles, 8 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 70 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 11:21:22 PM

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The Dems need to create an environment where the guilty may confess, so the worst perpetrators are identified, proven guilty and punished to the fullest extreme. But most must be forgiven.

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 12:16:51 AM

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Could you please be more specific with regard to your statement: "But most must be forgiven"? Are you talking about forgiven in the spiritual sense, while still holding that "most" group accountable in the "you broke the law and you're going to have to pay for it" sense? Or are you talking about forgiven in the spiritual sense, AND the legal sense, whereby the forgiveness excuses any sort of customary legal recrimination?

by Lilith's Spirit (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 99 comments) on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 12:35:38 PM

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But in South africa, where apartheid existed for so, long, the only way to heal was to to forgive. So, I wonder if such an approach will be necessary. Then there's the need for witnesses-- for whistleblowers. They need to know that there is some way they will be able to speak out without being charged.

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 12:52:51 PM

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Well, interesting spin you're putting on this issue, Rob. Very interesting indeed. I'd be curious to see/hear how others would apply a little critical analysis here. Because to my ear, it has almost the same type of "bait and switch" feel that a lot of classic "neo-con" spin has. For example, you're inappropriately linking up the idea of "whistle blower" and "criminal seeking immunity before ratting out others", as if somehow a true whistle blower is someone who has done something criminal, and expects exemption from the crime before coming forth to expose said crime. When in truth, a whistle blower is someone with a CONSCIENCE who reports a crime DESPITE THE PERSONAL RISK OF BEING UNFAIRLY PERSECUTED for exposing the crime, NOT someone who seeks to hide behind immunity while s/he rats out some other criminal. I think you're confusing whistle blowing with rat-finking, Rob. Also, you're engaging in a classic "apples and oranges" campaign by trying to link this issue with apartheid. I'm not all that familiar with your other articles, but from THIS one, it seems to me that you're really not that much different when it comes to spinning than the "neo-cons".

by Lilith's Spirit (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 99 comments) on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 1:25:26 PM

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(Assuming you are for real, and not a disinfotroll): Obviously there are many potential whistleblowers, and they range from those with the highest and best of motivations, to those with the most self-interested motivations. This seems so obvious to me, that I have to be supicious of YOUR motivation in {playing dumb?) on such an elementary matter. However: I am fully prepared to forgive your trigger-happy comments, if you will forgive my suspicions. "FORGIVENESS IS THE KEY TO HAPPINESS" ~~A Course in Miracles ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ S O M E O F T H E A B O V E N E W S Friendly, but not OVERLY-friendly ========================== "An Attempt to Uncover the Truth About September 11th, 2001 ))))DISCLAIMER: 9-11 Research does not promote incivility, junk science, or 'no-jetliner' claims." http://911research.wtc7.net/ ========================== B E W E T H E M E D I A ========================== Scientific Poll: 84% Reject Official 9/11 Story by Steve Watson and Alex Jones October 20, 2006 Only 16% now believe official fable according to New York Times/CBS News poll Truth Movement has the huge majority of opinion How will the Bush Cabal react? A monumental new scientific opinion poll has emerged which declares that only 16% of people in America now believe the official government explanation of the September 11th 2001 terror attacks.... click here ==== Pulling the 9/11 Lynch Pin by Fred Weber 9/11 is the lynch pin that will awaken all American citizens to the cancer that has taken over our democratic Republic. We fight this fascist regime and their globalist controllers together or we submit to enslavement as we bicker over the wedges that the elites have supplied for us.... click here ==== By Kevin Larmee: Help Save American Democracy (before It's Too Late) Most people think chain letters are stupid. Here is one with a difference. It's to register your concern regarding e-voting. Its effect can be HUGE! If 10 people forward this message to 10 people, in 6 generations 1,000,000 people can be alerted. If 20 people forward this message to 20 people, in 6 generations 64,000,000 people can be alerted. Let's create a buzz! click here === ACTION ALERT: Did Blackwell Purge Ohio Voter Rolls Oct 1st? -- Vote Early Just in Case! http://www.opednews.com/flyer/news_20061020_1.html == By Rob Kall Fitrakis Ohio Voter Purge Investigation Continuing-- Letters Found This article will recap the the evolution of the last few days of news regarding voter roll purging in Ohio, with an update from Bob Fitrakis, since he has seen and had reports of several vote purge related letters and uncovered more information on statewide vote purge activities, including private, vendor control of the voter rolls. click here == Senior Military, Intelligence, and Government Officials Question 9/11 Commission Report Many respected senior members of the U.S. military, intelligence services, and government have expressed significant criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report. Some even allege government complicity in the terrible acts of 9/11. Below are the highly revealing statements on this vital topic of over 50 prominent public servants with links for verification and further investigation. The collective voices of these respected senior officials give credibility to the claim that the 9/11 Commission Report is tragically flawed.... To read full article and statements of senior officials: CLICK HERE click here == October 16, 2006 at 06:54:20 "Official" 9/11 story On Life support; The Truth is Taking Over by John Perry The gutless purveyors of fraud trying to shout down the 9/11 Truth movement are not going to like this news. The "official" story is on life support, and the prognosis is not good. A new New York Times/CBS poll reveals that only 16 percent of Americans think they're being told the whole truth about 9/11.... ....I have said it before and I will say it again: It takes little more than a grade school education to understand that the tragic events of 9/11 did indeed involve a conspiracy. This is not theory. This is FACT.... ....How about it, all you "debunkers"? If you're not a bunch of Bush boot-licking brown shirt wanna-bes, prove it. If you're tired of hearing us speculate, put your money where your mouth is. Stand side by side with the 9/11 Truth Movement, call for a completely transparent, truly independent 9/11 investigation, and demand justice. click here == Conspiracy of Silence - The Republican Pedophile Ring of the Bush I White House.... Conspiracy of Silence, a documentary listed for viewing in TV Guide Magazine was to be aired on the Discovery Channel, on May 3, 1994. This documentary exposed a network of religious leaders and Washington politicians who flew children to Washington D.C. for sex orgies. Many children suffered the indignity of wearing nothing but their underwear and a number displayed on a piece of cardboard hanging from their necks when being auctioned off to foreigners in Las Vegas, Nevada and Toronto, Canada. At the last minute before airing, unknown congressmen threatened the TV Cable industry with restrictive legislation if this documentary was aired. Almost immediately, the rights to the documentary were purchased by unknown persons who had ordered all copies destroyed. A copy of this videotape was furnished anonymously to former Nebraska state senator and attorney John De Camp who made it available to retired FBI Agent Ted L. Gunderson. While the video quality is not top grade, this tape is a blockbuster in what is revealed by the participants involved. http://c2ore.com/archives/?itemid=2194 == "....But more important than the issue of the likelihood of the steel failure, is the FACT (not conjecture) that ALL THREE buildings collapsed into their own footprint at FREEFALL SPEED (i.e. the unimpeded acceleration of gravity). That means, drop a rock off the roof, at the moment of collapse, and the roof would hit the ground at the same time as the rock. This implies, (regardless of what happened at the fire zone) that the when the top section of the building began to fall it managed to plow through 70-80 odd floors of pristine and undamaged steel -- literally thousands of huge beams and concrete pads-- with absolutely NO RESISTANCE (i.e.. slowing of the rate of fall) WHATSOEVER. And this sir, is physically impossible and verging on the absurd, and I (a physicist), and anyone with a shred of knowledge of engineering, physics, or just plain common sense can understand that." == Election 2006: A War Referendum It's all about Iraq by Justin Raimondo The November election is shaping up as a national referendum on the war in Iraq – and the GOP, AKA the War Party, is in deep trouble. A recent CNN poll asked voters to rank the importance of the war issue: 48 percent said it is "extremely important," while 38 percent averred it's "very important." The same poll shows overwhelming opposition to the war (62 percent, and climbing), and – the shocker – 56 percent believe the war was a mistake, while a mere 40 percent disagree – with the latter figure the lowest on record. The bad news for Republicans: when it comes to Iraq, voters would rather have Democrats in charge (51 percent). After all, a Republican administration, aided and abetted by a rubber-stamp GOP-controlled Congress, lied to them: according to a Newsweek poll, a whopping 58 percent say Bush and his team "purposely misled the public about evidence that Iraq had banned weapons in order to build support for war."... http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9869 == 9/11 was an inside job planned and carried out by the Bush Administration. Don't believe me? Watch my videos. Site: http://belowgroundsurface.org click here == Two Top Congress Gays to Be Outed Daily: FROM http://www.blogactive.com : ....Well, America, I want other closeted staffers questioned. I want all entities investigating this matter to look at every other closeted staffer who may have contributed to this national disgrace. So.... Beginning Monday, and every weekday thereafter, I will be identifying the name of a closeted senior staffer in Congress with the hopes that those investigating this matter will make sure to include them in their questioning. And I hope the press looks for them as well. It's time to rid the government of those that would harm us. I will also highlight a past case from the site's history. I will ask you all to join me in sending emails to the ethics committee and media about these staffers who are putting the very stability of our government at risk. Some have said this is a purge of gays from the government. No my friends, this is NOT about gays. To suggest that there will be a purge of gays from the government is preposterous. Now, if you want to talk about a purge of anti-gay closet cases facilitating the hard Right's agenda... I say purge away.... http://www.blogactive.com == Embattled lecturer back in hot water re 9/11 UW Badger Herald, WI by Joanna Pliner. Following an article published Tuesday, outspoken University of Wisconsin lecturer Kevin Barrett was hit with a ... click here == Special Report GOP pedophilia and S&M trysts: A long history going back to Bush 41 and Reagan By Wayne Madsen Online Journal Contributing Writer click here == Google Web Alert for: Bush pedophile rings Consiracy of Silence video, Child sex ring that reached Bush Sr's Whitehouse. ... click here This as-it-happens Google Alert is brought to you by Google. == Great New WTC Science Film: Watch it now at Google Video! http://www.911weknow.com/911-mysteries-movie.html == HELP STAMP OUT OVERLY-FRIENDLY HUMAN-ANIMAL HYBRID KLEPTOCRATS! U.S. Being Awakened from Media-induced Coma by AIR AMERICA RADIO: Find your station HERE: http://www.airamericaradio.com SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL PROPHETS! http://www.webspawner.com/users/newstudyshowsgodson = To be removed from or to subscribe to this free Enewsletter list please email someoftheabovenews@yahoo.com with REMOVE or SUBSCRIBE in the subject line. == And if you don't like our news go make some of your own. Founder 2002: Johannieson & Friends Editor: Myra M. Jackson

by Myra (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 21 comments) on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 9:02:57 PM

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Well, Myra...let's see. Quick, you say? It's been 6 years since the first stolen election; 2 years since the second stolen election; current evidence that Ohio is gearing up for the same fraudulent tactics through which they stole the 2004 election; and the "voice of the progressives" is spinning like a top. No wonder this country is in such a mess -- the Repulicans are thugs, and the alternatives are a bunch of apologetic yapping lap dogs. What a choice.

by Lilith's Spirit (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 99 comments) on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 9:59:34 PM

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I think untold millions here and abroad agree with you -- but by making such a sweeping statement you dismiss those same millions as irrelevant! You seem to be saying that only an elite of enlightened "independents" and independent parties are of any value. I suppose you are dismissing the Democratic party *Establishment* - but you didn't specify that.

by Myra (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 21 comments) on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 10:37:59 PM

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No, Myra; I am challenging what I consider to be Rob's "bait & switch" and "apples/oranges" tactics to what started out as a pretty straightforward question. He suggested "forgiveness" as a solution to the current problem in Ohio, whereby 2 years after having stolen the presidential election, the same patterns seem to be emerging again. I asked if he meant forgiveness on a spiritual level only, or forgiveness on a spiritual AND a legal level. I found his response to my question to be evasive in two ways, and I described those ways to be "bait/switch" & "apples/oranges". In my opinion, those tactics are typically employed ad nauseam by neo-cons. Does that make it any clearer? I'm not making any claims that what I'm saying is absolute; but it is absolutely a legitimate opinion, and not some hit & run "flame", which is what you stated in your first post. I think that a founder of a progressive board has a responsibility to offer up something more than "forgiveness" and apologetic-sounding evasions for something as serious as the Republican voting fraud situation in Ohio.

by Lilith's Spirit (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 99 comments) on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 11:15:58 PM

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I doubt very much that he would recommend "forgiveness" in that way, for those things. I think he would be for prosecution according to the law; but, that being done, forgiveness should be favored over rancor and vengeance, etc. But now I should stop and let him speak for himself. As he said, he has not been thinking about this very long. {Who has had the time to!) I do celebrate the fact that there is beginning to be a good chance for avoiding a Neonazicon fascist takeover, and hopefully we will have the luxury of seriously discussing how to treat them and their supporters if we are fortunate enough to defeat them decisively.

by Myra (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 21 comments) on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 11:59:42 PM

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Ain't gonna forgive or forget. Especially while they are still in power. First control must be wrested then we'll worry 'bout whether its the gallows or Gitmo... though I've heard some rumblings in the lib/prog community about truth and reconcilliation, that ain't happenening 'til the forces of light prevail... CP ;>)

by cactuspat (5 articles, 8 quicklinks, 17 diaries, 20 comments) on Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 1:27:11 AM

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I don't think anyone here is naive enough to TAKE FOR GRANTED that democracy will survive -- though some may be so defeatist that they take it for granted that it will not.

by Myra (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 21 comments) on Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 6:42:40 PM

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Well, Myra...I have faith that ultimately G-d will reset the balance. But in the meantime, I don't share your outlook as far as hoping for the best in the near future. I believe Bush & Co. have already hijacked this country through their treasonous actions, and unraveled the constitution, the courts, etc. The only question that I see now is what actions are required based upon awareness and prayer.

by Lilith's Spirit (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 99 comments) on Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 12:29:34 AM

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