There was a magician who was also a shepherd. He had thousands of sheep to look after and he was a very miserly man, so he didn't want to pay anybody and he did not want his sheep to be lost or taken by the wolves. So he played a trick on the sheep. He hypnotized them and told every sheep, "You are not a sheep. Don't be afraid." To some he said, "You are a lion." To some he said, "You are tigers." To some he even said, "You are men. Nobody is going to kill you. Don't be afraid and don't try to escape from here."

The sheep started believing in his hypnosis. Every day he would butcher a few sheep but the others would think, "We are not sheep. He is butchering only sheep. We are lions, we are tigers, we are wolves, we are this and that...", even that they were men. And they believed it. It was always some sheep which was to be butchered. They remained aloof, distant. They were not worried. And by and by they were all slaughtered. - George Gurdjieff

by CasaZaza (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 202 comments [15 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:03:45 AM

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So true. The illusion is great, and most will go to the grave believing it because the truth is too hard to bear. Give me truth, and I will stand with it because the end result is the same. You either die running from it, or facing it head on. I prefer to face it head on.

by Barbara Peterson (73 articles, 109 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 541 comments [98 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:26:33 AM

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Many Americans have simply not been made aware of the questions around 9/11, and when they find out . . . their thinking starts to change.

So this isn't a "we open eyed moral people" vs. the "willfully blind sheep," but more of an information war with the thugs that pulled off 9/11 and their helpful corporate media henchmen.

WE CAN WIN THIS IF WE DON'T JUST WRING OUR HANDS AND SAY, "BLIND ARE THEE, WOE IS ME!"

HERE'S HOW TO WIN, LISTEN TO THIS AMAZING Feb. 26th RADIO INTERVIEW below, from a Republic Radio show of this week.

I love this Radio Host because when he learns of the lies, it enflames him to fight with truth, rather than just saying "the world is bad."  AND he has some GREAT and POWERFUL tactics to win the information war:

CLICK BELOW MP3 TO HEAR THIS POWERFUL RADIO PROGRAM:
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2008
MP3 Files: Hour 1

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:00:55 AM

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by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 12:27:10 PM

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George Orwell told us all exactly what was happening. "1984" is not fiction. Read, eat, sleep, and breath it. You are living in it. The charade put on by the mainstream media is all part of the re-written history, repeating the lie enough times that people believe it. All the way down to the invented heros and attacks on ourselves, "1984" is real...

by Mark Watterson (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 207 comments [133 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 12:53:10 PM

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...if not THE best things I have read on this site, CZ.  The 19th...Stand down.  I will.  The porks and stooges are prepared for a "violent" uprising... with their concentration camps and prison industry.  They are not prepared for a General Strike.  You nailed it. 

by waldopaper (15 articles, 3 quicklinks, 34 diaries, 609 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 1:11:56 PM

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Big Brother asks you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears...

And believe...Big Brother...

by Mark Watterson (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 207 comments [133 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 1:50:22 PM

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Truth, truth, turth truth, truth.  And the infinitely shaming tragedy is that MOST OF AMERICA ALREADY KNOWS ALL THIS. 

We lost our soul on 9/11, thanks to the neocon cabal and "another country". Hint, what country BENEFITTED from 9/11.  We all know who it was.

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (291 articles, 59 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 763 comments [44 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 2:06:06 PM

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To the People:

• Living in Fear is living in Weakness – Get Brave; we are not here in the world at this particular time in its history to take up space, resources and be afraid – we’re here to Make a Difference
• Turn on the Internet, turn on your brains – Obtain Knowledge for it is Power
• Be offended by hubris, lying and sociopathic behaviors; find your moral compass and reset it with empathy for humanity as the magnetic north – and we’ll all find Direction and Chart a Positive Course
• Demand accountability, have a long memory, learn from history – Our Future depends on it
• Question Authority – and make this a Majority Survival Technique; Blind Trust is for Suckers
• Open your eyes, and you will find “insight” -- Wisdom may yet Save You and Yours

Just some thoughts.  Feel free to add more.  Thanks CZ. 

by boomerang (0 articles, 7 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 556 comments [215 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 2:19:09 PM

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You only have 2 options:

Those who don't know yet are just like myself a few short years ago - I must have empathy and charity in my heart for those who scorn me, because I used to feel exactly the same way - the very thought of what the 9/11 truth community is saying seemed so repugnant to me, it was so totally against the paradigm I lived inside for over 45 years. 

I have yet to meet an ignorant man whose roots are not embedded in my soul. - Kahlil Gibran

If you don't know you must shut off the CIA controlled brain-manipulating idiot box TV - do your own research.  If you do know the truth about 9/11 then you are compelled to tell others.  This event represents but one piece of a huge puzzle - but it is also a big opportunity for people to be shaken out of a lifetime of indoctrinated stupor.  

Essays by CasaZaza

by CasaZaza (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 202 comments [15 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 2:36:51 PM

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I view 9-11 as a pivotal point in my thinking. If the government lied about this, and in fact, orchestrated it, then this means that everything I have been told by that government is most likely a lie also.

I question everything I hear. As children, we are dumbed down and indoctrinated to accept all authority and not ask too many questions. And this is the result - people who do not ask questions even when confronted with facts contrary to what the authority figures are saying!

The people who question authority are in the minority, and will always be so because of this programming. However, there are some who will wake up; after all, I am one of them! Therefore, I hold hope, and try not to judge the ones who do not listen too harshly. Just one of these days, they might wake up just like I did.

by Barbara Peterson (73 articles, 109 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 541 comments [98 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 3:46:20 PM

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If the info comes from the U S Gov't, you can bet your sweet a__ it's a big fat lie.

WWI? We're just making the world "safe for Democracy".

Vietnam War? "To stop the spread of Communism".

Iraq War? WMD's, of course

WWII? We were all minding our own business one day and all of a sudden, we were hit by the Japanese in this big SURPRISE attack. We had no idea. We thought the Japs were all fat and happy and we just couldn't believe they would do such a thing.

Etc...etc...etc...infinity

by Mark Watterson (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 207 comments [133 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:03:33 PM

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by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 2:32:43 PM

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Absolutely great article that sums it all up. As a matter of fact 9/11 Truth is moving beyond the boundaries of being a movement dedicated to discovering the Truth into a social revolution that will put the American society upon right tracts towards peace and social justice and everlasting prosperity for all.

False flag operations have always existed and the gullible sheeple have always  fallen into the trap. But not this time around. The criminal perpetrators are being in a disarray having been caught red handed all of a sudden. They are doing desperate attempts to stop the sun from shining but to no avail. The sun shines brighter and brighter and hotter and hotter until all darkness is lifted and all lies are melted away like snow in Arizona summer.

It is a shame that some knowledgeable and influential personalities still cower in the face of government's intimidations, but it won't last long. They will all come out one by one as the revolution gathers momentum. There is no stopping it even with a more horrendous shock-and-awe false flag op or a new 'War On Terror' distraction or a martial law dictatorship. Their credibility is lost for ever. The wizard of Oz has been exposed. It is the end of business-war- as usual. The year 2008 will be remembered forever as the year of the Truth.

by ramsheyi (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 793 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 2:56:06 PM

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I hope you're right, but I see no signs of awakening. I have been in countless discussions with all types of people. And the most response I have gotten, that wasn't negative, was a shrug and an O Well. Everyone is to hung up on their own comfort to see the significance of these events. Brain dead. And I am Talking about educated reasonably intelligent people that will happily vote for Hillary or Obama. All Brain Dead. And many are friends of mine. If I can really call them friends.

by arlen custer (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 466 comments [68 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 3:33:19 PM

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I work as a weather forecaster, and what used to be a vibrant office full of chatter and gossip has gone deathly quiet over the last year. I can literally work an entire shift without so much as a peep from the other forecasters. I have tried so many times to talk 9-11, and even though all my cohorts have a background in Physics, that will not see the truth when it is in front of their sheeple eyes. I despair, for in all the three plus years I have been awake, I have only converted one other to the truth as we know it. I fear the awakening won't happen for the majority until after another flase flag attack, ot the use of Predential order 51 is invoked

by Brad Griffeth (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 138 comments [12 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:03:41 PM

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There are few things more powerful than asking people to believe something that would completely destroy their fundamental beliefs. The government to many people is viewed much like a parental authority figure. One always wants to believe that ones parents aren't demented. Most simply deny the obvious rather than have to face the truth. Because if you accept that what you have been told all your life is a lie, then your life in a way becomes a lie and every aspect needs to be re-examined. This is simply to hard for many people to confront. It's much easier to ignore it For if you realize that not only does your government not work for your best interests but is willing to murder you to achieve whatever goals they're aiming at, it makes one feel powerless. That's hard pill to swallow and still deal with challenges of everyday life.

And the risk is enormous to ones own personal life. If you go around your office trying to convert people to the truth one could very well lose one's job. I myself have lose friends and become estranged from family over 9/11. These are high prices to pay and rather than do this the comfort of maintaining one's life style that one has built over many years is much easier to do than the alternative.

When presenting 9/11 to others you'll find that they'll agree that our government is corrupt, has committed "false flag" operations in the past, yet when asked if they believe 9/11 was committed with complicity of elements within our government they freeze.

I believe one of the reasons is the magnitude of the crime. It's sheer size puts people off. One of the main objections I encounter is most figure that it would take hundreds, if not thousands of people to pull it off, yet in a contradiction they believe that a handful of foreigners could. So wouldn't it stand to reason that a handful of inside powerful people would be in a better position to pull it off as opposed to a rag-tag group in caves half way around the world? Of course they argue back that someone would talk. They have. Many have come forward. But the fact that you don't see them on CNN negates their testimony. It has been drilled into us that unless it appears on tevevision, it isn't true. And most simply do not have the time to spend hours investigating this and aren't aware of the systemic corruption of the MSM. The revolution, indeed, will not be televised.

Again, it just comes down to denial and discomfort. If people accept 9/11 was a mass murder committed by people within our government then they'll be compelled to do something about it and the idea of acting on this presents challenges that would threaten ever fiber of their existence and that simply is something most people are afraid to confront.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:53:25 AM

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"It was as though some huge force were pressing down upon you-something that penetrated inside your skull, battering against your brain, frightening you out of your beliefs, persuading you, almost, to deny the evidence of your senses. In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it…The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. His heart sank as he thought of the enormous power arrayed against him, the ease with which any Party intellectual would overthrow him in debate, the subtle arguments which he would not be able to understand, much less answer" (Orwell, 82-83, emphasis added).

by Mark Watterson (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 207 comments [133 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:30:05 AM

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This article unknowingly illustrates the misguided nature of the "truth" movement.  You don't like what transpired after the attacks, you can't stand the thought of war for any reason, and most of all don't like that the whole thing resulted in benefiting Bush and Republicans politically, at least for a while.  So, you seek some way of wiping the whole thing out of your own personal reality by blaming the blameless and exonerating the truly guilty -- that is, the whole thing was faked and was carried out by your true enemy, the U.S. government.  But you cite no real evidence for it other than "see?, look what happened after. That proves it!"

What would you really expect to happen after 3000 Americans were murdered?  Would not any administration have likely sought recourse through war?  Were not the Democrats ready to scold Bush for not acting against Afghanistan soon enough just before he did?  Did not many of the same Democrats who scold on Iraq today vigorously support the decision to invade at the time, and even jump to claim credit when it looked like it was an easy success?

Actual evidence is not necessary in this soothing mental cocoon you've concocted.  Creative, emotive writing is wholly sufficient.  

We're still waiting for some actual evidence, not merely the same collection of coincidences and sometimes difficult to explain anomalies that invariably happen in any large operation or disaster. 

Where's the Beef? 

by Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 3:36:38 PM

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If you really want to know the truth, go to http://www.ae911truth.org/. If not, then have a nice day, and thank you for your input.

by Barbara Peterson (73 articles, 109 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 541 comments [98 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 3:53:10 PM

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Much of the physical evidence (steel) was shipped off the China and Korea to be melted down.  Fact.  Remnants of the plane are held by government, and they will not release part numbers or allow inspection as requested by numerous FOIA requests. Fact.

The video of the interrogation of those suspected of planning 9/11 has been destroyed, and was withheld from the 9/11 commission.  Fact.

And where is the evidence for the official conspiracy theory?  Their say so?

Bin Ladens confession tape ?  Maybe if they could explain how we got hold of it, but in this day and age, well, technology is an amazing thing, it is surprising what can be done with video and audio.

The 9/11 Commission believed NORAD was not truthful in their testimony, and has altered their timeline 3-4 times, the latest version after the 9/11 Commisions report was issued.  Fact

WTC 7 collapse at free fall speed into it's own foot print.  Fact. No steel building in hostory has ever collapsed in this fashion. Fact. Yet 3 buildings did so in one day (only 2 hit by an airplane). Fact.

Evidence of molten steel and temperatures greater than could be produced by a typical jet fuel air fire.  Remember how hot Ground zero was weeks after 9/11.  Soles of boots were melting, and stories and visuals of melted steel dripping from debris being removed, all of which was evidence of thermate used in explosives.  No wonder that steel had to go. 

The lack of air cover over Washington DC almost 1 hr after the 1st plane hit WTC.   Fact.  After the 2nd plane hit the tower, it was obvious the country was under attack. Fact.  Yet we are expected to believe NORAD relied on FAA to tell them a plane was heading toward Washington DC. Fact.  We are told that military exercises run the same day reduced the number of fighters available to go after all suspected flights.  Fact.   But when you have an inadequate number of fighters to go after each suspected flight, don't you use them to protect you most important assets which would be likely targets (hint Pentagon, White House, Capitol, etc).  Yes you do.  That excuse is laughable on so many levels it is insulting.

The reluctance to investigate (fact), the underfunding of the commission, the limited scope of the commissions investigation, the conflict of interest of the Executive Director Zelikov, the lack of any forsenic investigation into the cause of the buildings collapse (fact) when even Cheneys  aide (former CIA lawyer David Addington) was quoted in his biography that he thought the buildings were charged when he first saw it as did I (was it unreasonable that Al Qaeda might have planned a 2 stage attack, planes and explosives, in case one failed), all suggest COVER UP.

The administrations mantra after the attack that nobody could have imagined planes being used a weapons.  Bojinka Plot (fact).  Even  Tom Clancies Executive Order, Fox's The Lone Gunmen (6 months before 9/11) imagined this, and many officials have stated otherwise that this had been a concern since Bojinka. Fact.

Those Puts placed on UA. AA, and Merrill Lynch in volumes never seen before, days before 9/11. Fact. The 9/11 commission confirmed that those who placed it had nothing to do with Al Qaeda, so never investigated it, and also never named who placed them.  Fact. 

A guy who was a terrrible pilot, so terrible he was not allowed to fly a Cessna on his own, and he flies a Boeing for the first time and executes the most difficult of maneuvers that even experienced pilots say they would have problems with only to hit the newly reinforced section of the Pentagon which was mostly empty due to renovation,  when a more direct route would have taken them into Rumsfelds unreinforced side of the Pentagon. Fact. 

by pft (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 601 comments [7 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 3:53:01 AM

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I'm not going to answer the silly repeats all over again, but one statement here did jump out at me as the nadir of ignorance:

"OBL is not on the FBI's most wanted list for 9/11 due to lack of evidence to charge him."

Right, right... and what's this then - http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/fugitives.htm ?

Why do I get the impression that the Truth Movement is fast-becoming nothing more than THE excuse to keep Urban Legends responders in business - click here?

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 1:25:30 PM

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I'm not going to answer the silly repeats all over again,

I don't blame you. You must get sick and tired of making an a$$ out of yourself all the time...and for no good cause.

 but one statement here did jump out at me as the nadir of ignorance:

"OBL is not on the FBI's most wanted list for 9/11 due to lack of evidence to charge him."

Right, right... and what's this then - http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/fugitives.htm ?

That's OBL on the the most wanted list, but as clearly implied by the narrative, apparently not for 9/11. Do you follow? 

Why do I get the impression that the Truth Movement is fast-becoming nothing more than THE excuse to keep Urban Legends responders in business.

Apparently because that's all your limited mental faculties will allow.

by Harold Smith (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 556 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:04:07 PM

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"So long as they continued to work and breed, their other activities were without importance. Left to themselves, like cattle turned loose upon the plains of Argentina, they had reverted to a style of life that appeared to be natural to them, a sort of ancestral pattern…Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and , above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult." George Orwell, 1984

by Mark Watterson (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 207 comments [133 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 3:46:24 PM

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Yes!  Please!  Stand down!  Maybe the rest of the world could then think in peace - even if it's only for a day.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 3:50:12 PM

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Definition:

stand-down or stand·down (stnddoun)

n.

A relaxation from a state of readiness or alert.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/standdown

by Barbara Peterson (73 articles, 109 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 541 comments [98 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:00:55 PM

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Seems we can't get a 9-11 article past Tom Murphy...he lurks in the shadows, ready to spin the evidence and discredit anyone who thinks for themselves.  Cheers, Tom, for another  'score' for your side.

by Brad Griffeth (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 138 comments [12 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:11:35 PM

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Yeah, I thought he went away after he tried to post that 9/11 hit piece article that was torn to shreds by all the commenters because it was all false.

One would think someone paid by the establishment to perpetuate such a big lie would have an "honor of country" issue, but if the price is right, whores can be found...just look at O'Reilly, Hannity, Scarborough, Gibson, Tucker, et al...

by Mark Watterson (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 207 comments [133 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:19:46 PM

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Mr. Watterson, I did respond to Mr. Watts multiple, repetitive, and annoying open-ended questions.  My apologies on the delay, but there is a "real world" that imposes occasionally on my being a "government whore".  In order to accomodate your expectations, Ithough, 'll try to be more prompt in my responses - if only for you.

The response is thoroughly sourced and you are welcome to read it - http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=6149 .  And yet, I doubt very, very much if it would matter because you have the "faith" my friend.  You have the faith, Amen.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 6:04:24 PM

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to my way of thinking, people who can ignore the overwhelming EVIDENCE that shreds holes in the official fairy tale of 9/11 are the ones employing a vast amount of faith.

by Nezua (42 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 93 comments) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 8:47:53 AM

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Yes indeed Ms. Peterson.

There are some who would rather have us follow this feckless path of death and destruction. They sometimes pop up out of nowhere with their inane blather, and to them this death and destruction does not matter.

"Perpetual War For Perpetual Peace" doesn't and will not ever! ever! ever! work. Besides, it ain't our oil!

by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:21:37 PM

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On the morning of September 11, I was a senior in high school. People quickly began throwing around the idea that the disaster was caused by some Muslim terrorists, most likely led by Osama Bin Laden. I quickly rejected this idea as it was ludicrous. There was no way that such an elaborately orchestrated attack could have been successfully completed against the Goliath that is the United States by a such a motley crew.

Unfortunately, I was left without any real evidence to indicate who WAS behind the attacks. As everyone I knew accepted the terrorist myth as fact, I blindly followed suit, harboring disdain for extremists who would kill innocents to make a political statement. It was not until I researched the events preceding and following Sept 11 did I finally realize who those "extremists" were.

So some fool asked where the evidence for these allegations is. It's all around us, but only if your eyes are open. And I am waiting for the beef from men like Mr. Murphy. I always see him trying to refute 911 truth claims, but I have yet to actually read any evidence suggesting that the 911 myth put forth by the government has any validity. 

It makes me feel nauseous that some of my well-educated friends cannot see what is in front of their own faces. Some just don't care enough as they are caught up in their own selfish trivialities. Others are scared of the gift-horse. The rest are simply lost souls yearning to be set free, whether they know it or not.  

by Ferdinand (17 articles, 4 quicklinks, 39 diaries, 259 comments) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:44:24 PM

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Happy to say family and I attended the Richard Gage/Steven Jones lecture in Los Angeles last Saturday.  Unfortunately, except for a hand full, we were all in the choir.  We'll do better next time and drag some non-believers along with us!

by Angelo (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 209 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 5:17:56 PM

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Even if you believe the "9-11 official story," even if you want to clap your hands and keep Tink's light on... it's over.  There is no country/ government/ political system... only a network of corporate fiefdoms preparing to loot the carcass after the die-off.  Hit the off switch... shut it down while we still can. 

Because the inside job of "9-11" is just one example... and there are many more.  How about the crazier-than-a-sh*thouse-rat practice of funneling  (at least) half-a-trillion funnybucks a year for 1.2 billion-a-pop war toys... when bridges are falling down, people are dying from botched "healthcare," water is going bad, and the energy grid is beginning to flicker? 

The warpigs are planning to exterminate us through neglect... and their beret-wearing Sturmabteilung stooges will gladly herd us into "detention centers" for a "paycheck" that buys a wish-sandwich and a warm glass of piss.  Does anybody still believe we're going to become a "service economy," a continent full of strip-malls of insurance brokers and fast-food chains, selling each other sh*t on e-bay?  

As CZ says, "9-11 truth" is only a litmus test... so you can tell friend from foe... because those who have not figured it out by now will have no trouble turning you into a lampshade for a stale dog biscuit... because they'll believe f*cking anything. 

The first "stand-down" won't do much. When enough people are bankrupt, evicted and freezing in the dark... when the malaise affects their OWN pink butts... the "stand-down" will happen right along with the die-off.  

Best get "down to it" before the die-off begins.  

by waldopaper (15 articles, 3 quicklinks, 34 diaries, 609 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 5:18:16 PM

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so much beyond 911. 911 is the event that opens many eyes. To begin to question all that we were 'taught' .... to believe.

The current neocon middle managers are guilty of overreach.... knowing, perhaps, that if they didn't get 'it' all done quickly, they might fail. To enact their plan for global hegemony.

Because of their obviousness, many Americans are becoming all too cognizant of their actual designs.

We have learned their strategies, tactics, and efforts. It is now obvious, for example, when a poster is simply there to promote the government's memes. Obvious.  We have them here. 

The uber-evident, overarching, pastiche of evidence - not just the demolitions of the WTC, but all of it.... from the faux WMD to the half-assed excuses for engaging in torture... ALL of IT. Arrogance. Unbridled and diseased arrogance. That their tortured and, essentially, paranoid view of the world, their assertion of dominance, of control..... ALL of that has been shown to be the sickness, the pathology that creeps to undermine and destroy what can be good and enriching among peoples.

 All of the CIA 'black' ops, the FBI cointelpro, the disinfo perpetrated by the neo-Mockingbirds, the Pentagon's 'Operation Information Roadmap'  machinations exemplified by some who post here. All this Crap. Sorry guys, you had your chance. And you boffed it. 

 We know what you look like, how you sound, how you think. We now know a bit of what this perversion of a 'government' is. We are beginning to see what tyranny looks like. 

And it ain't pretty. And those who clearly appear to support it ain't pretty.   

by richard (0 articles, 5 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 1359 comments [399 recommended, 8 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 8:09:32 PM

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I can only have sympathy for people who see the world in terms as stark as richard's...  Theirs is a world of self-dellusion that's apparently wrapped in a certainty that parallels the faith of any religion.  To me, it is alien as to how anyone that lives in such a world could find happiness - true happiness, which commands only my sympathy.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 8:34:29 PM

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Tom,

If we are so deluded why do you engage in the dialogue? It seems that your purpose in this discussion is merely to denigrate the people in it and not offer any illumination. Instead of doing this, why not just count us as unimportant, and remain in your own world as we will in ours? Or could it be that something about what we are discussing here keeps drawing you back? Think about it. In any case, have a nice day, and thank you for your input.

by Barbara Peterson (73 articles, 109 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 541 comments [98 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:00:20 PM

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Ms. Peterson, dellusion has a range to it - from mild to severe; it's not - or perhaps "should not be" - a singularity.  And yet, for a great many of the Truthers here and elsewhere in America (I honestly don't care about non-American Truthers), they are severely delluded.  To the extent that I can appeal to those few who may be mildly delluded or truly neutral, I like to think (well, pretend is more likely) that my perspective can illuminate the 9/11 issue in a more equitable light.

I have offered a number of comments here with respect to 9/11 that "illuminate" and have been sourced appropriately.  Every (yes, "every" - I keep track) comment, though, has been dismissed by a fair number of the posters on this article (and others) as either (1) Pentagon-paid disinformation or (2) flights of fancy carried on the winds of my own ignorance.  While neither of these dismissals are true, the posters emphatically BELIEVE them to be valid - even when they are told specifically by me that they are not.  I term this rightly so as "denial" - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/denial .

I find this type of thinking oddly intriguing because, as I've stated previously, it's so alien to me.  And I find that I cannot remain in "just my world" - whatever THAT may be - because the Truthers are demanding that they be let into "my world" and be given free reign to show me their "truth".  It is THEY who are not content to remain in their world.

By default, this thinking that has begun to border on the militant with discussions about revolution is MOST deserving of my attention.  And when this thinking is coupled to the relgious-like "faith" that Truthers display, it honestly scares me.  I take Truthers' demands essentially as threats to my, the nation's, and world's well-being because they are ONLY interested in their version of the "truth", and the terms of "objectivity", "reasonable", and "most likely" do not exist with their truth.

So, yes, Ms. Peterson, I have thought about it... and it scares me silly.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:52:22 PM

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who parades around his house in his soldiers outfit.

Tell us, since you have such an innate ability into the human mind, where did you get your Doctorate in Psychology?

"I find this type of thinking oddly intriguing because, as I've stated previously, it's so alien to me."

Now mind you, I'm not calling you this, but from statements like this one, you certainly sound like an arrogant pompous ass.

Lonely too.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:13:34 PM

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The "parading around the house in my soldier's outfits" takes the edge of the loneliness.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:19:27 PM

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into what you are, they hold true too then ... ?

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:25:03 PM

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As I've stated previously, think of me what you will provided it brings you comfort at day's end.  Anything I have to say will not be listened to anyway; so I recommend you have fun with it.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:30:22 PM

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already wasted enough time on you. There are more interesting, intelligent, and engaging people here.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:34:07 PM

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...as I said previously, "Go for it!"  Engage those intellectually stimulating people and see what kind of "bobble heading" agreement you can build to bring yourself comfort - http://www.bobbleheadworld.com/Jesus_and_Mary_with_Ozzy.jpg . 

Me?  Well, I always have my soldier outfits, don't I?

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:41:47 PM

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Disagreement is healthy. A quest for the truth is healthy also, and you have a right to your opinion. Others do too. What concerns me about your post is this statement:

I take Truthers' demands essentially as threats to my, the nation's, and world's well-being because they are ONLY interested in their version of the "truth", and the terms of "objectivity", "reasonable", and "most likely" do not exist with their truth.

Since when is seeking a truthful, critical analysis of the circumstances surrounding 911 a threat? Since when is disagreement with the government a threat? Maybe since G.W. Bush declared "either you are with us or you are with the terrorists." That statement makes it very easy to label anyone who questions any official government action a terrorist. See how easy that was? If you don't believe the official 9/11 story, and want an independent investigation, you are a threat to the nation's and the world's well-being, and must be a terrorist. And you are the one who's scared silly? You are not the one with the potential for being singled out for deportation, detention, or whatever else the government has in mind to handle the "terrorist" problem, just for seeking the truth and asking too many questions. 

by Barbara Peterson (73 articles, 109 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 541 comments [98 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:56:35 AM

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...Ms. Peterson, it's a threat when, "[T]his thinking... has begun to border on the militant with discussions about revolution... MOST deserving of my attention.  And when this thinking is coupled to the relgious-like 'faith' that Truthers display, it honestly scares me."

There is no compromise with the Truthers because they have "truth" on their side, you see.  Just read some of the comments associated with this article to get a "flavor" for their zealotry.  And they are constantly trying to spread their "truth" to the "sheeple" by whatever means possible, including the admitted use of fiction - http://www.cedarfort.com/catalog/9781599550947.html , if you can believe that! 

As a result, "...I find that I cannot remain in 'just my world' - whatever THAT may be - because the Truthers are demanding that they be let into 'my world' and be given free reign to show me their 'truth'.  It is THEY who are not content to remain in their world."

Does it make sense now?

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 5:42:41 PM

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You have the right to use the delete key just like the people with whom you disagree with do, Tom. No one is holding you down and force-feeding you information. Free speech means that people have the right to say and write what they want, as long as what they say and do does not infringe on another's rights. No one is forcing anyone to listen to or read what the people in this discussion are talking about.

If the thought of revolution scares you, then American history is not your strong suit. History is replete with major figures talking about revolution:

"Every generation needs a new revolution" (Thomas Jefferson)

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it" (Abraham Lincoln)

"The American Revolution was a beginning, not a consummation" (Woodrow Wilson)

"The seed of revolution is repression" (Woodrow Wilson) 

Why would talk of revolution make you afraid? America was founded on it.
 

by Barbara Peterson (73 articles, 109 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 541 comments [98 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 6:19:46 PM

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Keep looking for happiness, and eventually you will find it. Most of the people you address here have. But not by denying real problems. Pat

by Oh (7 articles, 5 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 321 comments [41 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:58:23 PM

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Ms. Ormsby, finding happiness is one thing but attaining it requires constant vigilance - a dedication that is sadly lost to many in today's world of instant communication, gratification, and immediate demands for "truth".

In order to attain happiness, you need to set your expectations appropriately and accept that which "is" for what it is.  The attempt to control and manipulate an issue in an attempt to change what it is will only result in the harboring of fear, anger, and resentment (e.g., proving that 9/11 was an inside job).  And the existence of these in your life is only a hindrance to happiness.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:29:08 PM

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To believe in the 9/11 governmental conspiracy one must also believe that the governmnent has the level of competency required to orchestrate and execute such a devious plan....

The defense rests.

by James Strait (39 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 193 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 8:58:07 PM

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That is the worst argument I've ever heard.  Let's get this straight - because within your belief system the government is not smart enough, there's no way we should look at irrefutable physical and circumstancial evidence and draw necessary conclusions about this case. Disregarding the volume of evidence showing complicity in false flag operations in the past, all of which are a matter of public record or declassified documentation, your instinctive knowledge about their level of mental acuity, even with all their intelligence departments costing billions of dollars a year to maintain so they can sit around and drink coffee - leads you to affirm with utter certainty that there's no way there can be government complicity in this matter.

Is that what you really want us to put you down for?

by CasaZaza (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 202 comments [15 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:20:23 PM

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Carve it in stone.

by James Strait (39 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 193 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:43:29 PM

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James,

If you believe our government is incompetent, you are fooling yourself.  That is what they want you to think.  Why else would they let that monkey Bush make a fool of himself every chance he gets? 

Didn't we win the war with Iraq in three days?  Doesn't that take some level of sophistication?  Also, who are the people benefiting from 9/11?  Who are the companies making all the money?  Let's see, oil companies, weapons manufacturers, contractors, etc.   All associated with the Bush admin.  They are all laughing their asses to the bank.  Oh, Israel made out pretty well also. 

Think about it. 

Go

by Goblue (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 70 comments) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:24:54 PM

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Mr. Strait:

How then do you explain the people who reported hearing explosions in the basement of the Towers even before the they were hit? You can't! NBC's Pat Dawson reported hearing multiple explosions in the buildings. I guess these were just added sound effects? Ya think!  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnnjIzamnJo&NR=1

The jury has reached a verdict, 911 was an inside job.

by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:31:23 PM

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That's right, the most industrialized and most powerful organization in the world, funded with $2.3 trillion every year couldn't do it, but 19 guys out of a cave half way around the world can?

The absence of thought in this argument is deafening...straight from the establishment...

by Mark Watterson (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 207 comments [133 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:38:06 PM

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To believe in the 9/11 governmental conspiracy one must also believe that the governmnent has the level of competency required to orchestrate and execute such a devious plan....The defense rests.

First, history shows that governments are always pulling off conspiracies, no?

Second, let's face it, much of the 9/11 false flag attack was amateurish and sloppy and poorly thought out. The contrived evidence implicating Arabs was laughable; as was the childish and transparent anthrax attacks; the lack of a believable claim of responsibility; the impossible phone call to Ted Olson from the plane; and all the other happy horse$hit.

Third, and in light of the above, if almost any part of the system of so-called "checks and balances" of the U.S. government was still functioning, nobody wouldn't have gotten away with anything, would they have? Instead, they were allowed to destroy evidence at a crime scene; obstruct and manipulate the 9/11 commission; let suspects escape; refuse to hand-over various inculpatory evidence; refuse an independent investigation, etc. That's not "competency", that's merely raw power (being misused).

by Harold Smith (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 556 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:09:20 PM

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this government isn't competent enough to have pulled something like this off. That's why it's so damn easy to uncover. It was a botched job from the get-go and it's plain as day to anyone with half a brain who spends any amount of time looking into it.

Couldn't agree with you more ...

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:22:10 PM

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Dear Tom states: “I can only have sympathy for people who see the world in terms as stark as richard's...  Theirs is a world of self-dellusion that's apparently wrapped in a certainty that parallels the faith of any religion.  To me, it is alien as to how anyone that lives in such a world could find happiness - true happiness, which commands only my sympathy

--------- 

That’s pretty lame. Even for you Tom. Is that the latest disinfo technique imparted to you during an in-service training at that five-pointed-place?

It’s really too bad that Abbie Hoffman didn’t succeed.

"It’s tempting to label Hoffman only a clown because so many Yippie actions were antics. But even their most playful had elements of genius, or at least the grand gesture. The Exorcism of the Pentagon brought 50,000 seeking to levitate the Pentagon; they may have failed, but Hoffman actually succeeded in getting Defense Department officials to negotiate in all seriousness an official permit setting how high the levitation could be.

[http://www.brendastardom.com/arch.asp?ArchID=255]

----------------

Oh.…. would that they could have exorcised the whole damn thing.

---------------

I will cherish your ‘sympathy’, Tom... 

by richard (0 articles, 5 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 1359 comments [399 recommended, 8 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:11:36 PM

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 Great post! A rose by any other name or If it walks like a duck , quacks like a duck you know. The civil rights movement was started by Rosa Parks  who no longer feared the consequences of not going to the back of the bus and keeping in line. Not every oppressed person stood up but enough did to reach a tipping point. Martin Luther though vocal and insightful  wasn't recognized as the leader of the movement with foresight but rather hindsight. 343 Firefighters deserve better than this. My sweatshirt I'm wearing as I write this has a 5 in a circle dripping blood running down it and pooling at the bottom of the circle. On the back it says 1,000,000 is enough- end the war- peace now and 3-19-08 the day when we should say we ain't sitting in the back of the bus with George at the wheel. No shopping, no work No school on the 5th anniversary of this misbegotten sick adventure,the Iraq invasion. I only hope to change one person's understanding  at a time at the most but it is worth the effort.

by tjb (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 255 comments [9 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:12:01 PM

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.....of actual evidence.  A "truth" website that's so biased it doesn't even give an ounce of consideration to what the vast majority of the engineering community thinks is not evidence.  Evidence is evidence.  

Actual remnants of explosive devices, or even the effects of explosive devices in the rubble would be evidence.  

Actual testimony from people involved overcome with guilt, even anonymously provided, would be evidence.  

Actual sounds of rapid fire charges going off BEFORE the collapses, as is always the case in actual demolitions, would be evidence.  

Actual dated pictures or video of the identified hijackers still alive would be evidence.

Actual testimony of seeing a missile hit the pentagon, as opposed to an airliner, would be evidence.  Actual absence of aircraft parts and passenger remains would be evidence.

Nothing close to this has been provided.  Only creative writing based on a politically motivated, not objectively scientific mindset.  That's all we get, and we're supposed to call it "truth".

This is why truthers don't get on TV anymore.  There was a brief window of curiosity, but then everyone realized they had nothing. 

by Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:15:37 PM

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Alan:

You are kidding aren't you? Watch this video and then tell us about the explosions going off. If you listen very close Alan they say they hear bombs going off. What - does - that - mean - Al - an ? Bombs = explosions. Please watch the entire video and then go back to sleep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnnjIzamnJo&NR=1,

by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:50:22 PM

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Yup.  And I say those noises sound LIKE explosion too.  But that doesn't mean the sounds are the result of controlled demolitions.  There's a shitload of structural steel being stressed by dynamic loads for which it was never designed or intented to carry.  The perimeter columns, which carry a portion of the building load, along with the horizontal trusses, are being pulled inward 80 to 90+ stories above ground level. 

And you think you have the luxury to remain oblivious to such stresses?

If you don't think you'll here bolts popping across the entire height of the structure from shear forces, beams swnapping from tension, and connection plates cracking from compression (all of which can make explosion-like sounds at the scale of the WTC structures), then you've never heard a house "pop" or "crack" in the middle of a cooling night or a tree "groan" or "creak" in the wind.

Do be serious with the "he/she heard explosion" claims, will you?

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:05:53 PM

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Mr. Murpghy:

Bombs were heard going off in the basement of the Towers even before they were struck. So don't - even - go - there ! 

They were not sound effects. They were real!  I suppose the link I've posted twice because some people are just too thick headed, to blind to see,or perhaps they don't want to see? where NBC's Pat Dawson who states that he believes bombs are in the buildings is just a misapprehension? Perhaps he and everyone who heard explosions going off before the Towers were stuck, and the explosions which were heard before the Towers collapsed were all just hallucinating?  

Do us all a favor?  Don't - even - go - there !  You don't want the Truth Tom!  You never did.

by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:41:02 PM

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You are playing couch quarterback with a person's recollection made in the heat of a moment.  There is NO empirical evidence that even hints at explosions - let alone "bombs" - occurring BEFORE the aircrafts' respective impacts.  Is there any seismic data, explosive residue, unexploded devices that you can offer up?  Or do you only have "shell-shocked Janies and Johnnies" trying to make sense of the totally irrationale in the cafe au lait worlds? 

Be serious for once, even if it's only for this issue.

Given that terrorists attacked the WTC complex in 1993, I think it reasonable that many would make the immediate (and ironically correct) conclusion that terrorists were once again behind the 2001 attacks.  Given also  that a bomb was used in 1993, why not assume a bomb or bombs were used in 2001?

You're waxing rhapsodic about the inane... again.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:15:15 PM

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I suppose they wrote this for the fun of it? Eh! Tom. You're wrong again as usual.

William Rodriguez was the last man to escape from the World Trade Center before it collapsed.

In October last year William visited Japan to testify at our 911 Truth International Conference in Tokyo. (Listen to his testimony at the Japanese 911 Truth conference here)

He claimed that there were bombs placed in the lower sections of the twin towers and that even before the first plane hit, a bomb exploded in the basement, not far from where he was working. Because of his intimate knowledge of the World Trade Center and his valiant efforts to help with the evacuation of the building he was asked to testify for the official 911 Commission. But his testimony was omitted from the final 911 Commission Report...

What part of that don't you comprehend, Tom?  Like I said , you don't want the Truth. That's pure ignorance.

by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:12:49 AM

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"What part of that don't you comprehend, Tom?"

I was hoping you weren't going to reference Willy, but you did.  It's these parts, München, that I have difficulty comprehending:

September 11, 2001 - "And at that terrible day when I took people out of the office, one of them totally burned because he was standing in front of the freight elevator and the ball of fire came down the duct of the elevator itself, I put him on the ambulance," - http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0209/11/se.48.html .

September 12, 2001 - "We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off," - http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/new.york.terror/ .

February 12, 2004 (at the NIST hearing): "W. Rodriguez: The fire, the ball of fire, for example, I was in the basement when the first plane hit the building. And at that moment, I thought it was an electrical generator that blew up at that moment. A person comes running into the office saying 'explosion, explosion, explosion.' When I look at this guy; has all his skin pulled off of his body. Hanging from the top of his fingertips like it was a glove. And I said, what happened? He said the elevators. What happened was the ball of fire went down with such a force down the elevator shaft on the 58th [50A] – freight elevator, the biggest freight elevator that we have in the North Tower, it went out with such a force that it broke the cables. It went down, I think seven flights. The person survived because he was pulled from the B3 Level. But this person, being in front of the doors waiting for the elevator, practically got his skin vaporized...

"Dr. Hill: William, we obviously need to talk to you. You have some very valuable information. I have a note here that we attempted to contact you and weren't successful. Could you stay around afterwards so we could talk to you a little bit?

"W. Rodriguez: Sure. I would be glad to. Okay, thank you very much," - http://wtc.nist.gov/media/Public%20Transcript%20021204%20Final1_withlinks.pdf .

October 22, 2004 - "Now this native of Puerto Rico and remarkable American hero is taking his 9-11 activism to an even higher level. He has commenced, as Plaintiff, a federal court lawsuit against George W. Bush, Richard B. Cheney, Donald H. Rumsfeld and others alleging that they and others were complicit in the 9-11 attacks, and either planned the attacks, or had foreknowledge of the attacks and permitted them to succeed, in order to exploit a "New Pearl Harbor" to launch wars against Afghanistan and Iraq...

"The 9-11 Commission, a suspect collection of government and intelligence insiders, restated without question or examination all essential elements of the 'Official Story' of the actual events of 9-11. It failed almost completely to refute, or even to mention, the great body of evidence that suggests the 'Official Story' cannot be true..." - http://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/Press%20ReleaseRod.htm .

June 25, 2006 (at American Scholars Symposium) - "It's been five years of my life dedicated to this... the truth about 9/11...

"I'm in the basement [B1 Level]...as I was talking to a supervisor at 8:46, we're like chit-chatting, and all of a sudden we hear "BAH"...ah...very strong "BOOM" - an explosion so hard that push us upwards - upwards.  Now, 20 years in the building, remember that, and it came from the basement between the B2 Level and the B3 Level.  And at that moment I thought it was the Mechanical Room where they have all the pumps and the generators for the building that maybe a generator just blew up in the basement. 

"Now, 20 years in the building you know something that comes from the bottom and something that comes from the top.  at that moment everybody started screaming.  And it was - I mean - the explosion was so hard that all the walls cracked, the false ceiling fell on top of us, the sprinkler system got activated and when I went to verbalize that it was a generator we hear "BOOM" all the way on the top, the impact of the plane on the top. 

"Two different events; two different times.  Later on I thought that they probably didn't synchronize it well.  Because that came out in the investigation that probably that this explosion was to weaken the base and foundation of the building to be synchronized with the hit on the top so that it will fall automatically, which it didn't," - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4380137365762802294&q=william+rodriguez+9%2F11&hl=en .

Sooo, what I can't comprehend is that when Willy testified before NIST in early 2004, not once did he mention any "BAHs" or "BOOMs" spearate of the top BOOM and fireball like he does in 2006.  Why - what changed in the intervening months (aside from his story)?  NIST had even been trying to contact him because of his intimate knowledge of the poor condition of the stairwells (Willy was responsible for cleaning the stairs and had taken pictures of their poor conditions).  And yet, Willy never stayed around after the hearing to answer their questions.

But by late 2004, Willy is claiming in a lawsuit (which was later dismissed and not withdrawn as he alleges), that officials investigating 9/11, the attacks, and WTC events never considered his and others testimony about... what?  Oh yeah, being accused of not cleaning stairwells, taking some pictures, and right, witnessing a man who's skin was burnt because he was impacted by a fireball while stading in front of the elevator.

And... you have no problem comprehending such inconsistences, München?  Well, "God love ya," is all I can say if you don't.  Willy is "squealing" for the noterity and money; one look at his web site will confirm this motivation - http://www.william911.com/store.html .

Thank you to 911stories.com for supplying the evidence that paints the true potraits of "Willy Gone Wild" - http://911stories.googlepages.com/home .

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:29:38 AM

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It's not silly, Tom! It's ignorance, on your part.

You still didn't answer my question?

Everyone was hearing explosions, bombs going off in the Trade Towers including NBC's own  Pat Dawson and yet Tom Murphy is disputing these credible accounts? It's like arguing with a twelve year old.

Tom, you're on the dance floor lad however, you just can't quite get close to the band.

by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:25:05 AM

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München, when was the last time YOU heard an "explosion", which you confirmed was caused by a bomb because you whatched the physical explosion?  Did it... sound like anything else you've heard in your life (e.g., an engine backfire, a car crash, a water fountain cannon, a firework, etc...)?  Or was the sound so unique that you knew from that point forward that you could determine a bomb explosion from any other sound?

I know that I cannot distinguish a bomb explosion from other types explosions from an unseen distance.  I can identifty the sound of incoming mortars, rockets, RPGs, rounds and associate the immediate "explosions" thereafter with these types munitions.  But I cannot identify the bomb source of a sound for which I cannot see the explosion and I have no precursor sound prior to the explosion.

Perhaps you and Pat and others can, but I know I cannot.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:23:43 PM

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"Actual remnants of explosive devices, or even the effects of explosive devices in the rubble would be evidence."

These photos show angle cuts on several steel beams in the rubble. If these cuts were made simply to carve up the rubble into pieces to be hauled away, why bother with angle cuts? 

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_charges.html

Much more in this single link which is less than 1/10th of 1% of all 9/11 data that has been posted on hundreds of sites.

A theory of events is separate from the presentation of evidence.  The idea that there is no evidence is a myth. 

Evidence is evidence.  We will leave the fantastic conspiracy theories about what happened to the government, the media, and the 9/11 Commision Report.

by csnet (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 112 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:26:18 PM

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You're serious?  Not the "no iron worker would waste time making an angle cut" argument again?  Enjoy the link and note that the patent holder states that they have never manufactured a thermite-based linear cutter charge - NEVER - http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=5091 .

This has been discussed here previously and debunked.  So, where's your evidence of thermite-based cutter charge remnants now?

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:37:03 PM

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A lot of effort for sure, but debunked?  Nah.

by csnet (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 112 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:49:37 PM

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The patent holder admits that they NEVER manufactured the thermite-based linear cutter charge, as detailed by Mac (not me)... and this does not constitute a debunking (good or not is immaterial)? 

How so, and do you have other evidence of the existence of such charges?  If you do not, then you cannot use them to explain those silly, diagonal cuts.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:03:03 PM

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Do you have evidence that no patent has ever been infringed?

by csnet (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 112 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:17:07 PM

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Where YOU are making the claim of thermite-based linear cutter charges being employed to make the diagonal cuts, it is YOUR responsibility to answer this question - not mine.  I'm perfectly content with more traditional forms of cutting.  And if YOU cannot answer it, then you CANNOT introduce the charges as "evidence" for the cuts. 

The absence of a negative is not proof of a positive.  Personally, yours and the others endless open-ended questions that are used as "evidence" only reinforce my growing belief that Truthers are intellectually lazy.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:28:29 PM

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of unexplained diagonal cuts in WTC steel beams.  Your premise that the owner of the patent did not manufacture the patented device is not evidence that devices similar to the patented device were not used.

Patents in the software industry are infringed all the time.  Any group cabable of the events of 9/11 would not be unwilling to infringe a patent.

I am not prepared to draw the conclusion that thermite charges were used to bring down the towers based on the diagonal cuts in the beams.  The diagonal cuts are part of a collection of evidence including air samples, dust samples, the characteristics of the collapse, 1st responder reports, and other data reported on that site and others. 

What I can conclude is that the WTC towers, especially WTC 7, did not behave in a way that can be explained  by fire damage.  The alternative, to accept that these 3 buildings collapsed due to fire damage is a very good example of intellectual laziness.

by csnet (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 112 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:07:00 AM

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"Patents in the software industry are infringed all the time.  Any group cabable of the events of 9/11 would not be unwilling to infringe a patent."

What do software patents have to do with a thermite-based linear cutter charge patent?  My wife drives a red car and I sometimes ride a red bike; does this mean my wife secretly stole the patent for red?  Let's stay in the "real world", csnet.  And you need to further explain the "any group" comment.  Do you mean "the government", "the 19 muslims led by a guy in a cave", "Perini Construction Corporation", "Prison Planet.com"... who?

"I am not prepared to draw the conclusion that thermite charges were used to bring down the towers based on the diagonal cuts in the beams.  The diagonal cuts are part of a collection of evidence including air samples, dust samples, the characteristics of the collapse, 1st responder reports, and other data reported on that site and others."

That site and the vague "others" have handpicked only the parts of the available data that support their assertions that 9/11 was an "inside job".  Those data that don't align with these assertions assertion are routinely discarded (e.g., oxy-acetylene cutting activities made the diagonal cuts).  Then, to piece the disparate facts together, mythical cutter charges are "proposed", microscopic analyses of questionable dust samples are wildly conjectured upon, and anecdotal and inconsistent testimony are "explained" by "scholars".  Right, okay... whatever you say so long as the scientific method is adhered to in the review of the data.

"What I can conclude is that the WTC towers, especially WTC 7, did not behave in a way that can be explained  by fire damage."

What, then, csnet, were your expectations of WTC 1, 2, and 7's behaviors on THAT day?  And you are aware, I presume, that NO ONE (other than you it seems) is claiming that fire alone felled the structures.  Mechanical damage AND fire were contributers to the collapses.

"The alternative, to accept that these 3 buildings collapsed due to fire damage is a very good example of intellectual laziness." 

Oh, sure.  That 10,000+ page report issued by NIST is a fine example of intellectual laziness.  In an acronym... WTF?!?

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:54:48 AM

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Why not simply cite the patent?

by Harold Smith (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 556 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 6:24:17 AM

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First, to the naked eye, the cut in that infamous picture looks almost perfectly linear. Moreover, it looks like both sides match up perfectly as well. Although I have no personal experience with a cutting torch, I find it  hard to believe that a cut that perfect was made by hand.

Second, cutting a column like that by hand would seem rather dangerous. The column would likely be under some kind of mechanical load or have some significant mechanical potential energy that would be released unpredictably at some point during the cut, no? I suppose it could have been hooked up to a crane or something, but it's unlikely that the cut could have been made in a situation where there was no net force acting on the column, IMO.

Lastly, if we assume that the steel was under some kind of mechanical loading (even its own weight force), when it was cut, the fact that the cut came out so perfect suggests to me that the cut was made very fast,  i.e., the metal was removed on a time scale short compared to that in which the mass would be able to overcome its own inertia and move appreciably.

by Harold Smith (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 556 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 8:01:23 AM

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Alan, 

by richard (0 articles, 5 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 1359 comments [399 recommended, 8 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:37:42 PM

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Since this is such a contentious topic, you are all invited to phone in tomorrow evening (Wednesday 2-27-2008 )7:30-8:00PM EST...I will reserve that time for this topic and we can hash it out on the air.

Live call in lines...856-227-1360...856-232-7077

by James Strait (39 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 193 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:09:09 PM

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...when you lose your $40k "job" with the paperclip-sureity division at global bigbuxcorps... and all that's available is operating the" terrorist satisfaction  oven" at homeland safety corp. inc. at 5 funnybucks an hour ...

... will you take the job? 

by waldopaper (15 articles, 3 quicklinks, 34 diaries, 609 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:13:11 PM

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As illustrated again above in the ridiculous propaganda YouTube video, the "truth" movement has no evidence whatsoever for what it accuses.  

That's the real issue that you and the rest of this "movement" don't even seem to realize is necessary and vital to making such outlandish claims. 

Evidence, people.  Not YouTube videos made by agenda-driven context-challenged propagandists.  Evidence. 

Let us know when you actually have some. 

by Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:15:15 PM

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I posted above a link to evidence that contradicts the official conspiracy theory for the collapse of three WTC buildings, yet you keep posting "where is the evidence?"

You have been directed by others to sites that have hundreds of pages of data, but somehow you were able to read and reject it all in minutes.

Kids cover their ears, close their eyes, and make sounds to screen out stuff they want no part of. 

So do adults, perhaps using less obvious techniques.

by csnet (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 112 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:39:18 PM

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Alan:

Wake up! You can do this I know you can.

NBC's Pat Dawson heard bombs going off in the buildings! Listen to the video! He was right there Al-an!  This isn't ridiculous propaganda!  Wake . . . up!  Don't be such a dolt!

by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:55:35 PM

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... there is no doubt about what YOU would do. 

...because you'll get a fun hat.  

by waldopaper (15 articles, 3 quicklinks, 34 diaries, 609 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:16:51 PM

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I am aware there is plenty of evidence and the footage of GW Bush in that classroom was more than enough for me.  When I saw his countanace after the event I had to believe he either knew something of lesser impact was afoot and was duped or was indeed the perp himself.  Either way, I felt then and feel strongly now that his actions in that classroom are the only real evidence I need.  Years from now, they will no doubt start digging up some truth,  well after Bush has escaped to Paraguay.

by Roger (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 465 comments [22 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:24:51 PM

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Roger, you're offering an anecdote: "a usually short narrative of an interesting, amusing, or biographical incident" - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdote , which is clealry not evidence: "something that furnishes proof" - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evidence .

Keep in mind, though, that life's about progress not perfection.  Keep trying!

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:43:08 PM

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Exposing the truth about 9/11 is a key to revealing all of the lies that the dumbed down public has been told by this fascist cabal occupying the executive branch of the US government. Dig deeper and what we find is that the majority of the world has been fooled and ruled by a very small number of psychopathic power hungry self important elitists that only care about solidifying their control over the entire planet. The poor saps that fall for their bs are just ignorant tools helping to allow them to reach their goal of complete and total world domination. The evidence shows that this is not just mere "conspiracy theory" tossed about by some flippant radical fools. To the contrary, the ones that try to debunk the 9/11 truth movement sound like the flippant radical fools as they have absolutely zero real evidence to confirm the actual conspiracy theory of the 9/11 commission.

For the record...I was a demolitions specialist in the Army Reserves, I'm a licensed aircraft mechanic (A&P) with a college degree and have been educated and experienced in structural engineering plus I'm a damn good pilot as well.  The three collapses at the WTC were the result of controlled demolitions and building 7 was pretty much a textbook perfect example of that.  Also, there is no way that inexperienced, incompetent pilots could have navigated to their targets.  As a pilot just the navigation component alone is enough to convince me that a few Islamic extremists could not have pulled this off.  Navigating in three dimensional space is very difficult, it's not like driving down the freeway with markers and stuff.  Add to that (to the trained mind) the obvious demolition aspect of the buildings collapse, the "military exercises" that resulted in confusion and reduced the available intercepters to barely a handful and a myriad of aspects of foreknowledge and it all adds up to an inside job and the defining moment of our times.

9/11 is just one of the latest "big lies" that people have swallowed.  The following linked film just lays it all out.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

by Tim Erney (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments [12 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:53:33 AM

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"NBC's Pat Dawson heard bombs going off in the buildings!"

"....the footage of GW Bush in that classroom was more than enough for me. When I saw his countanace after the event I had to believe he either knew something of lesser impact was afoot and was duped or was indeed the perp himself."

by Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:30:52 AM

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 This is the linch pin to 911. The crux of the matter is would our highest officials,our protecters, do this. Unbelievable to most Americans isn't it and wouldn't you count on this unfailing trust to pull off such a stunt?

by tjb (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 255 comments [9 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 6:38:48 AM

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I wonder if any of the truthers would be satisfied with such a low threshold of such ambiguous "evidence", if that they were accused individually or as a group of committing mass murder, and treason to the highest degree imaginable.

As a result of 9/11, the "truth movement" wants a real investigation into what happened. Whereas the "faith movement" wants to murder people in Afghanistan and Iraq, possibly Iran, and "God" only knows where else...by the thousands, ten thousands...hundreds of thousands...millions...hell, the sky's the limit. It's apparently better to slaughter everyone on the whole planet than try to find out the truth of the matter, no?

by Harold Smith (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 556 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:17:16 AM

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A number of us here have made this point, that the rapid spreading of the truth about 9/11 has been due entirely to the Internet. When the perpetrators started planning 9/11, the Internet was still new. These people knew they had the mass media under their control, and of course thought that with that they controlled the main means whereby information is disseminated and public and world opinion shaped. No doubt they thought there might be rumours, as there had been rumours about Pearl Harbor, Kennedy's murder, the moon landings, the Gulf of Tonkin, the operations of the CIA around the world, UFO contact, and many other things, but they thought that the rumours about 9/11 would have the same effect, none. Perhaps in 50 years' time some scholar might make a name for himself by conclusively proving the truth about 9/11, but by that time 9/11 would be another historical event, with the same interest as other historical events, including massive crimes like this. Cheney is an old man, and technologically semi-literate, in the manner of old men. These people had no idea, and hadn't reckoned on, the burgeoning Internet. I myself didn't know about 9/11 until in late 2006 I happened to see the film Loose Change. I couldn't believe what I saw. I knew that evil men were capable of doing things like this, but I couldn't believe that they actually had in this case, and that they had managed to make the whole world accept an account of the crime that would enable them to further their political agenda, but wouldn't stand up to even the most cursory examination; and that far-reaching decisions were being made around the world based on these lies. For a moment I couldn't believe that an American government would do such a thing, with such arrogance. I researched the matter on the Internet and there it all was, the analyses, the pictures and illustrations, the videos, the discussion about it from every angle, a library full of articles and popularisations, all showing what really happened on 9/11, and that it could only have happened with the participation of the United States administration. And I immediately started to tell my friends about it. No wonder that they want to pass laws controlling the Internet. (The irony of it is that the Internet was largely developed in the United States.)

So, what is this planned event for March 19? Where can we find out more about it, and what do the organisers want to happen? And then let's use the Internet to tell everyone about it, worldwide.

Sydney, Australia

by Robert Hoogenboom (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 234 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 5:27:00 AM

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 "For the record...I was a demolitions specialist in the Army Reserves, I'm a licensed aircraft mechanic (A&P) with a college degree and have been educated and experienced in structural engineering plus I'm a damn good pilot as well". Tim Erney

"They even appear to be highly knowledgeable about flying and what's possible and what's not. All this a coincidence? What are the odds? "  Alan Williams

Ø  YES, WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF THE EVENTS HAPPENING LIKE YOU AND TM WANT SELL?!  You are using a well-known "tactic" by attempting to inject "doubt" with the word "appear" above.  It is a weak ploy and does nothing but establish your credentials... 

 Ø   Mr. Erney just qualified himself as competent in a number of areas, and you attempt to demonize and disparage him immediately.  Just by calling an individual a "Truther" is an act of demonizing said individual.  It is a "tactic", and diminishes YOU, not the individual you are painting with a derogatory brush. 

Plus, you add later, "I'm starting to seriously wonder if perhaps it was the "truth" movement who was behind 9/11.   I say, let's investigate the 9/11 "truth" movement, before they kill again, and plunge us into another useless war somewhere".  Alan Williams

> You yourself are providing "evidence" of your ignorance and vehement intent by your own words.  When you and the rest of the debunker funkers start doing your thing, you isolate events, like they occurred in a vacuum.

The Bush administration (and prior) Greenspan induced (let me rephrase – engineered) financial tsunami drowning the American middle class, the insane printing of dollars creating inflation, the housing debacle, the gross "Outflow" of American People's money into the hands of Administration cronies, the MIC, an illegal offensive foreign war, etc. – all this is inter-related. 

I don't think you are blind and stupid, and raving though you appear so.  I think guys like you and TM simply have an alternative agenda.  Why you would continue to fight the losing war of patriotic fervor for the most corrupt government administration and a complicit congress is the BIG question for you?

Why do you think Specific Acts of Debunking isolated controversies can possibly debunk the NEW & UNIFIED THEORY OF CORRUPTION many people are beginning to see and understand? 

Plus +, you boys seem to have entirely too much time on your hands... odd

by boomerang (0 articles, 7 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 556 comments [215 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 8:45:04 AM

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"For the record...I was a demolitions specialist in the Army Reserves, I'm a licensed aircraft mechanic (A&P) with a college degree and have been educated and experienced in structural engineering plus I'm a damn good pilot as well". Tim Erney"

While Tim's "tree picture" of himself is "tasty", I'd like to know more about him other than his being a "free spirit in the blissful infinity of the universe". I want to know more about his military service before me, myself, and I call him "qualified". For instance, what was/is his AOC or MOS (primary and alternate, if available)? What were the qualifiers to his AOC or MOS? What were his years of service? What examples of practical application does he have of his AOC and MOS?

Any idiot can post qualifications that make them appear competent – just look at my bio! And yet, why is Tim "embraced" because of his "apparent competencies" and I'm dismissed because I wear a mean beret – even though I report on my own competencies? Oh, yeah... right. Tim's IS a Truther, while I'm an infidel.

It is those that associate themselves with the self-proclaimed 9/11 Truth Movement (i.e., Truthers) that create this categorizing between the believer and non-believer and not the other way around, as you innocently portend with, "Just by calling an individual a "Truther" is an act of demonizing said individual... [that] diminishes YOU, not the individual you are painting with a derogatory brush."

Calling someone a "Truther" or as Harry likes to call the non-believers "Faithers" is not derogatory but defining. Let's not go "PC Wild" on this issue, shall we?

"I don't think you are blind and stupid, and raving though you appear so. I think guys like you and TM simply have an alternative agenda. Why you would continue to fight the losing war of patriotic fervor for the most corrupt government administration and a complicit congress is the BIG question for you?"

Uh-oh, are you attempting to inject "doubt" into the debate by employing the tactic of using the word "appear"? My, my... but the street DOES have two sides to it, does it not? If you have taken the time to read Mr. Williams past comments, he's NOT a big fan of President Bush. I, on the other hand, continue to support the President. Therefore, you're assumptions about our "agenda" and the implication that it's unified are incorrect.

I have stated why I comment (aka my agenda) repeatedly – just scroll up and read my response to Ms. Peterson. If this is insufficient for you, then that's yours to manage (if you choose) and not mine.

"Why do you think Specific Acts of Debunking isolated controversies can possibly debunk the NEW & UNIFIED THEORY OF CORRUPTION many people are beginning to see and understand?"

First, please define or quanitfy the term "many". Second, the Truthers are the ones who pose the questions in singletons; I just answer them accordingly. And third, what is this "New & Unified Theory of Corruption" that you speak of? It sounds strangely like the Grand Unified (or Wave) Theory of uniting all of Nature's forces into one model – not the current Relativity vs. Quantum Mechanics debate that attempts to define the Universe.

"Plus +, you boys seem to have entirely too much time on your hands... odd."

Yes... strange isn't it? The only logical explanation is that I must be a psy-ops agent, right? In fact, my openly talking about it is proof that I must be one because I'm trying – almost desperately you would say – to dismiss the silliness of the explanation. In response, I'll offer you this from the movie "The Princess Bride":

Vizzini: So, it is down to you, and it is down to me...if you wish her dead, by all means keep moving forward.
Man in black: Let me explain...
Vizzini: There's nothing to explain. You're trying to kidnap what I have rightfully stolen.
Man in black: Perhaps an arrangement can be reached?
Vizzini: There will be no arrangements...and you're killing her.
Man in black: But if there can be no arrangement, then we are at an impasse.
Vizzini: I'm afraid so. I can't compete with you physically, and you're no match for my brains.
Man in black: You're that smart?
Vizzini: Let me put it this way: Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons!
Man in black: Really! In that case, I challenge you to a battle of wits.
Vizzini: For the princess? [Man in black nods] To the death? [Man in black nods again] I accept!
Man in black: Good, then pour the wine. [Vizzini pours the wine] Inhale this but do not touch.
Vizzini: [taking a vial from the man in black] I smell nothing.
Man in black: What you do not smell is Iocaine powder. It is odorless, tasteless, and dissolves instantly in liquid and is among the more deadly poisons known to man.
Vizzini: [shrugs with laughter] Hmmm.
Man in black: [turning his back, and adding the poison to one of the goblets] Alright, where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink - and find out who is right, and who is dead.
Vizzini: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine it from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you...But you must have known I was not a great fool; you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in black: You've made your decision then?
Vizzini: [happily] Not remotely! Because Iocaine comes from Australia. As everyone knows, Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me. So, I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
Man in black: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Vizzini: Wait 'till I get going! ...where was I?
Man in black: Australia.
Vizzini: Yes! Australia! And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in black: You're just stalling now.
Vizzini: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you! You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong...so you could have put the poison in your own goblet trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied...and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me!
Man in black: You're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work.
Vizzini: It has worked! You've given everything away! I know where the poison is!
Man in black: Then make your choice.
Vizzini: I will, and I choose...[pointing behind the man in black] What in the world can that be?
Man in black: [turning around, while Vizzini switches goblets] What? Where?! I don't see anything.
Vizzini: Oh, well, I...I could have sworn I saw something. No matter. [Vizzini laughs]
Man in black: What's so funny?
Vizzini: I...I'll tell you in a minute. First, lets drink, me from my glass and you from yours.
[They both drink]
Man in black: You guessed wrong.
Vizzini: You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha, you fool!! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia; and only slightly less well known is this: Never go in against a Sicilian, when death is on the line!
[Vizzini continues to laugh hysterically. Suddenly, he stops and falls right over. The Man in black removes the blindfold from the princess.]
Princess Buttercup: Who are you?
Man in black: I'm no one to be trifled with. That is all you'll ever need know. Princess Buttercup: And to think, all that time it was your cup that was poisoned.
Man in black: They were both poisoned. I spent the last few years building up immunity to iocaine powder.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:08:51 AM

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9/11 An Open Challenge 

What I intend to do here is just deal with the most basic and blatant evidence.  Because that is the only thing that is relevant at this time. A true investigation is for finding out who did what and how they did it.

In the official explanation of the towers collapse, the only force acting on them to bring them to the ground was gravity.

It is well known at what temperature kerosene  burns. It is also known that in airliner crashes more than ¾ of the fuel is burned off on impact. It is also well known at what temperature aluminum melts, and at what temperature it vaporizes. There are also many examples of airliner crashes, some at full speed into mountains, that have left large debris fields.

The next question about the crash in PA is nearly the same as above.

by arlen custer (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 466 comments [68 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:34:04 AM

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I responded to this "open challenge" on February 16, 2008 - http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=6149 .  But thank you for repeating the questions yet again because eventually they'll become real "facts" just by repetition alone.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:09:55 AM

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What a great Piece! Wish I had thought if it myself. My baseball cap is off to you, emotional, powerful, excellence!

by Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1317 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:34:08 AM

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It is not only the suspicious collapse of the buildings that invites scrutiny, but several other things such as the flight path of the plane that hit the Pentagon. 

Here is a link to a great article posted at OpEdNews regarding Military Officers challenging the official version of 911.

Excerpt: 

Commander Kolstad had a second career after his 20 years of Navy active and reserve service and served as a commercial airline pilot for 27 years, flying for American Airlines and other domestic and international careers. He flew Boeing 727, 757 and 767, McDonnell Douglas MD-80, and Fokker F-100 airliners. He has flown a total of over 23,000 hours in his career.

Commander Kolstad is especially critical of the account of American Airlines Flight 77 that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon.  He says, “At the Pentagon, the pilot of the Boeing 757 did quite a feat of flying.  I have 6,000 hours of flight time in Boeing 757’s and 767’s and I could not have flown it the way the flight path was described.”

More information can be found at http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

by Barbara Peterson (73 articles, 109 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 541 comments [98 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:58:53 AM

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..... too mucheth. 

I'm even more sure now.  The "truth" movement did 9/11.  I'm guessing the premier demolitionist Danny Jowenko was involved at a high level.  Remember when he made that denial that the twin towers were imploded, for cover no doubt, and then slipped up and said WTC7 was an obvious demolition?  I could tell by the look on his face that he knew he screwed up, but he had to play it out.  That's the real smoking gun, not Silverstein, who is a mental midget compared to the evil genius, albeit sometimes careless Jowenko. 

It's so obvious when you think about it.  I never thought those collapses looked right, like simple damage/heat induced collapses usually look.  Now, it's all falling neatly into place, just like the towers and building 7 falling into their own footprint.

The only question is how deeply are smaller players involved.  Some are no doubt dupes, but some are engaged in such a sophisticated disinformation operation that it leaves little doubt as to their inside knowledge.  9/11 review, Journal of 9/11 studies, the list goes on quite long.  

We need an investigation, and fast.  The speed at which this cover-up is progressing is astounding, and the sheer genius is franky scary.  I only hope the FBI has realized what I have, and has already started an investigation.

by Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:23:10 AM

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Mr. Williams, I think you'd reach a larger audience more quickly if a... fictional thriller... say... were authored that referenced these Truther connections to 9/11.  You could even have the book reference links to established 9/11 debunking web sites.  I could then go out and promote the novel shamelessly (for a nominal fee, of course) because it would align well with my agenda - and I could use the extra cash because the Pentagon is conveniently cutting back on their domestic psy-op budget. 

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:39:37 AM

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In our search for truth we can take two different roads, the path of acceptance, or the path of denial. Both lead to the same place as there is only one absolute at which to arrive. The path of affirmation, or the via affirmativa, is the positive path, this method requires much effort as one is trying to attain a sense of reality through study and application. The opposite is of course the via negativa, or the negative path. On this road to truth we are required to do absolutely nothing at all - those who choose this method will try and remain in a receptive state, as only your stillness is required. The first path is an accumulation of information and experience, the second requires a stripping away of knowledge to attain an awareness of your inner being, and meditation is valued as a way to allow the divine presence within you to be realized.

In our search for truth regarding 9/11 we can take two distinct roads. The path of affirmation of the official theory means accepting everything we are told by the US government on faith alone. There is no evidence for their claims, but we are not supposed to question - don't ask to see the video evidence they are hiding, the physical evidence that was illegally removed in haste, the records of testimony from eyewitnesses, or all those who received gag orders, etc. On the other side is the 911 Truth movement's path of denial - the essential difference being, we only have to show that the official story could not have happened - we are not required to prove what actually did happen.

The burden of proof rests upon he who affirms; not he who denies." - Fundamental rule of evidence

There are two paths leading to oneness with the Tao. The first in the path of acceptance. Affirm everyone and everything. Freely extend you goodwill and virtue in every direction, regardless of circumstances. Embrace all things as part of the Harmonious Oneness, and then you will begin to perceive it. The second path is that of denial. Recognize that everything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth. Peel all the veils away, and you will arrive at the Oneness. Though these paths are entirely different, they will deliver you to the same place: spontaneous awareness of the Great Oneness" - Lao Tzu

by CasaZaza (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 202 comments [15 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:46:38 AM

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"In our search for truth we can take two different roads, the path of acceptance, or the path of denial."

And... what again is the purpose of the scientific method?  Scientific method: "principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses," - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scientific%20method .

Your search for "truth", CasaZaza, as described in your comment is better suited for a moral, philosophical, or theological question (e.g., the Ontological debate).  However, its application and relevance to a scientific question fades quickly.  Your truth or more appropriately "Truth" concerns itself with "a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality", while the truth discussed in science concerns itself with "the body of real things, events, and facts" - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/truth .

We shouldn't unnecessarily confuse the two here.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2100 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:42:52 PM

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Science was baffled by the fact that, when measuring the speed of light, the speed of light turned out to be constant, no matter which direction the light travelled. Einstein one day, sitting at the front of a light ray, his legs dangling, holding a mirror in front of him and trying to have a shave, suddenly realised that he could formulate as follows: Suppose we postulate as a physical fact that the speed of light is constant in any system, regardless of the movement of that system relative to other systems. Lo! and behold! The speed of light was explained and all sorts of other facts were explained, and other facts were predicted, which, on establishing them, constituted corroboration of his hypothesis.

Let's suppose that what the truth movement is saying about 9/11 is true, that the Bush administration, their friends and backers, did it, in probably the following way ... Then suddenly it all makes sense, doesn't it? Everything makes sense, the physical facts, the behaviour of people, all manner of baffling things. No need to deny obvious truths, no need to bend over backwards trying to prove, foam at the mouth, that under certain circumstances black can be white and that pigs may fly. And all sorts of other things that are coming to light are explained as well, such as the FBI suddenly saying that Barbara Olson never phoned Ted Olsen from a plane. And everything we can now predict that will happen because of our hypotheses regarding 9/11, if they do happen, will serve as corroboration of the truth of the contentions of the truth movement regarding 9/11, won't they?

"QED", as they say.

Sydney, Australia

by Robert Hoogenboom (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 234 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 at 3:10:56 PM

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TM & company -- You are irrational, pompous idealogues.  Not worth a thinking person's time.  So blow hard, stick out your tongue and rant on.  The latest photo is appropriate for a clown by the way.

By stepping back, and just scanning down through this thread, a quite realistic and distasteful picture emerges of your ilk.  You "see no evil" about the linked financial crisis and the Trillion$ spent on war-making; or seem to care about the hundreds of thousands of innocents Killed by Your Military and administration policies, you see no coincidence or problem with the removal of long established liberties in the U.S. while it propagates the notion that it is exporting "democracy and freedom".  Add the newly endorsed and hard-fought-for practice of Torture to the stinking pile of subterfuge.  bUsh and his administration are doing "a hell of a job" as their cronies get rich, the middle class gets crushed, and the pResident and Congress earn the lowest ratings ever...

The flim-flam will come out in the wash in its own time.    

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