I'm glad Ms. Davis specifically uses the word "spirituality' toward the end of this article, as it saves me the trouble of proving that she is essentially arguing her religion.  While I may agree with much of what she says, forcing this theology on others is one of the primary fears that cause average Americans to head for the bunkers when they hear the word, "progressive." 

Yes, my choice to eat a steak instead of black-eyed peas wastes both energy and food.  Yet, we all make hundreds of decisions a day that affect the world community in similar ways that are completely unrelated to diet.  For instance, as a Christian, I recognize sins of omission.  If I buy a new car when a used car would do, then I in effect commit murder by not sending the difference in price I could save to a credible international relief agency to get food, water or medicine to those in desperate need.  If I own a pet and spend money to feed it, then I am being self serving and sinful because that money could feed an entire family in many areas of the world.  

Ms. Davis, you cannot simply take one small specific area of life and state that how everyone decides in that area affects you and therefore imply that you should have a say in their decision.  Basically, every decision a person makes affects other people.  Your decision to focus your energies on the unnecessary killing of cows and other edible animals rather than the unnecessary killing of humans affects me.  You, quite likely, will not be interred or executed for writing of the suffering of cows.  I, on the other hand, quite likely, will be interred and executed for the writings and doings that are my life's work.  I would much rather your passion were spent on keeping our political freedom than keeping our cows.  

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Oct 5, 2008 at 11:13:33 PM

  (0+)

something and a religious zeal? Let's talk CODEX Alimentarius. Let's talk about GMO. Let's talk about Fluoride in our water. Because these three things are killing us more than all the other things brought up in this article.

CODEX Alimentarius, alone when it goes into world-wide mandatory effect on 12/31/09 will kill 3,000,000,000 people, that's right BILLION, in it's first year of implementation!

But don't believe me, Google it, do your own research. It's simply amassing what one can find out when you turn-off your Boob-tube and make up your own mind instead of being feed propaganda telling you what you should think.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 9:41:00 AM

  (0+)

The Dalai Lama has said, “My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.”  Making thoughtful food choices is the simplest thing each of us can do to show kindness to ourselves, each other, the animals, and the planet. And not just once, but several times each day!

What you refer to as "one small specific area of life," is what the United Nations 2006 Report on Global Warming calls, "a major threat to the environment."

You can argue all you like to justify your desire to eat a steak, but there can be no "political freedom" as such, when millions of people in third world countries are starving in large part, because people in other parts of the world choose to eat the flesh of cows.

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 12:34:54 PM

  (0+)

Nothing like asking government to force 'Kindness' on our fellow citizens, at the point of a gun, with the threat of death or prison or increased extractions from their already shrinking wallets.

Or, does government have some sort of non-violent tool now to get people to do what it says?

Environmentalism is a popular religion these days.  Good thing we (used to) have separation of Church and State.

by UncleSim (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 511 comments [73 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 4:51:22 PM

  (0+)

Gail, thank you for a thought-provoking article.  It's important that people keep an open mind and consider the many ways in which their daily lives impact the environment.

by Kellie Morton (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Sunday, Oct 5, 2008 at 11:59:49 PM

  (0+)

I would cry about discrimination. 

What about that fertilizer, pesticides, genetically modified crops that create their own pesticide and which we eat despite the fact it has not be adequately tested. 

Not to mention top soil erosion, and the fact is not enough is being grown to feed todays population should they all go 100% veggie, and 100% organic farming would mean even less food than we have today.

Imagine all the trees that would need to be cut down to grow crops for people who become veggies and eat only food from organic farms.

The neo-malthusians reponse is why not eliminate people, cull the herd, save the trees.  They just use different language.

The green fascist neo-malthusians religion will take us back into the Dark Ages.  BTW, an ice age is coming, and crops do not grow in glacier land.  We should be storing meat in the Antarctica ice box.

I do accept the need to regulate those factory farms and reduce the suffering of these animals.  That would mean higher prices, and people would naturally eat less meat.  But people should be able to eat what they want, if they can afford it.

by pft (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 601 comments [7 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 2:05:03 AM

  (0+)

Oddly, when reading through the first 8 points of the article, I was not certain whether animal-raising was the culprit at issue, or agriculture itself.  Really, it can read either way.

In fact, when you tally up the damage scores, isn't it true that you actually have to cut trees, dispose of natural flora, dig up the ground, and remove the rocks in order to farm?  None of that is necessary for grazing sheep or cattle.  I never have understood the claim that raising food animals  "destroys" the earth.   It really appears the exact opposite is true.  I might add, it is never necessary to dump massive amounts of horridly poisonous pesticides into the ground and air in order to raise herd of cattle.  No frogs ever died because buffalo grazed nearby.  Honeybees did just fine for millions of years.  Bring in large-scale farming (with its massive gasoline and oil consumption, by the way) and nearly everything nearby dies as a result.  If you're talking "my food is nicer to the planet than your food," I would have to say that raising meat is a far better solution for keeping the air, ground, and water safe and clean.

 A person might argue that agriculture on a small scale can be done without pesticides, that farming doesn't have to destroy the land or poison the air and water.  That is SO true.  But, it's also true that raising food animals does not have to mean a miserable life for the animal, or destruction of the environment.  I know this.  I live in a rural, agricultural area.  The cattle here graze on open range, free to wander and herd at will.  They graze in green pastures by winding rivers, in the shadows of tall rocky mountains.  They lead good lives, and the meat is not the same as the meat in grocery stores, it's delectable.  But then, the food I grow in my garden only vaguely resembles what is found in the grocery store, also.  One thing I do know is, when the orchards nearby are being saturated with pesticides, the clouds of it hang in the valley.  Man, you haven't lived until that crop duster is emptying his tanks a couple hundred feet above your roof.  Makes you look at apples in a whole new light.

Maybe the problem with our diets, whatever we choose to eat, is not WHAT we eat, but how we produce it, and how we've given our power of choice to large and profit-driven conglomerates thousands of miles away.  Maybe a simple commitment to producing more of our own food the way WE want it done, is the way to eliminate global-scale damage from agriculture OR herding.  

If you want to choose not to eat animals because you love them, I say more power to you.  That seems a loving choice.  You still have to kill some plants to eat them, though, so that wouldn't work for me, I'm afraid - it's all life to me, and none less alive than any other.  Unfortunately, all life is required to consume other life in order to survive, and if we don't like it, we have to take it up with the Creator who designed it that way.  Even eating nuts and eggs means you're robbing that potential life, how do you get away from it?  But if we can reclaim our ability to farm and herd on a smaller scale, and go back to eating local produce and meat, there would be no need to slash, burn, poison, torture, or raze anything.  We can't get away from the killing completely, but we can still keep the planet safe no matter what we individually choose to eat.  We did it before, and there is no reason we can't do it again.  

by Susan Saphire (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 2:19:32 AM

  (0+)

Indian's life isn't any of your business at all.

by shadow dancer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1115 comments [121 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 2:24:06 AM

  (0+)

If you choose to hunt and kill your own food, that is your choice. But the truth is, that most people have little or no contact with the flesh that ultimately ends up on their plates. Rather, their meat comes from the billions of animals raised inhumanely on factory farms, in filthy conditions, with no regard for their basic living needs.

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 12:42:37 PM

  (0+)

You may not be a vegetarian, but I doubt you're deliberately cruel, are you?  For Californians, we have a prop up for vote  in Nov.  If you vote YES on Prop 2, farm animals such as chickens, baby male calfs(identified as 'veal' even though they're cows) and pigs will be allowed to be raised in environments where they can 'stretch their wings/limbs', 'turn around', and 'lie down'.

The prop does not require free-range outdoor living although the opposition is trying to use scare tactics implying there is a threat of 'bird flu' contact with wild waterfowl with it's passage.  The opposition also claims that allowing farm animals to be allowed to stretch, turn and sleep will result in 'Global Warming'.

You do not need to be a vegetarian to be against animal cruelty.  Please make this clear by voting YES on Prop 2.

Thanks.  C

by colleen dekoning (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 4:38:08 AM

  (0+)

BTW- I also read the word 'spirituality' in the OP as the first poster did. I, however did not have the knee-jerk reaction that it implied any particular religion. I wish I'd been surprised to read that the first poster identified themselves as being 'Christian' but I wasn't. Luckily, I know many vegetarians who identify themselves as Christians, so I know better than to assume that this one person speaks for all Christians. Christians appear to be just as likely to be vegetarian or against animal cruelty as adherents to any other religion are. It does make me wonder what 'religion' they thought the OP was- since all the vegetarians I know, as well as people who are just generally against animal cruelty, belong to a diverse rainbow of different religions. Anyone can claim a religion- but not everone can embody that religion's virtues, especially it seems, on online forums. While it would seem that most people of any religion would claim to be against animal cruelty, it always surprises me when they don't. It surprises me even more when it appears they'll go out of their way to insult people who say they do. I am curious as to what religion the OP is implied to be just because they used the word 'spiritual'. I'm drawing a blank since all religions claim to be spiritual. I'm especially interested as it seemed to be intended as an insult. Is there some 'vegetarian religion' that throughout my 24 years of being a vegetarian I haven't been privy to? Please tell! c (Californians can vote against animal cruelty by voting YES on prop 2)

by colleen dekoning (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 5:06:53 AM

  (0+)

I agreed with much of what Ms. Davis wrote in her article (that would be the parts about cruelty to animals).  I objected to the seemingly religious intolerance she had of other people making different choices.  I pointed out in my own faith, Christianity, how sins of omission are found in nearly every decision a person makes, considering we live in an interdependent world in which each dollar I unnecessarily spend on myself necessarily starves other human beings.  And if this is an insult, then so be it:  yes, I think people in the animal rights movement have their values misplaced.  The human rights movement should come first.

The only knee-jerk reaction I saw anywhere in this thread was your reaction to my confession of being a Christian.  But we are not all fundamentalists.  I am summa cum laude in political science and philosophy, and hold a juris doctorate, along with post-graduate studies in macro-economics and political economy.   I regularly study the most contempory theological issues. I am more Marxist than anything else, but differ with Marx, obviously, on some very fundamental questions. I have read, understood, and even found a typographical error in Marx's calculus in the former Soviet edition of the English translation of Volume III of Das Kapital:  an error that went undiscovered for decades, so complex is Vol. III.  So please do not assume someone's intellect by virtue of their belief in Christianity.  I find, rather, that disbelief is a sign of a failure of imagination and a lack of historical knowledge, or simply disinterest.  Few things disinterest me.  

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 5:59:02 AM

  (0+)

Rather than the question of meat, I would put forth the question of eating at all.  The current forcast for hunger is bleak. 

We often cry "what can we do to improve the country/ the world/ life in general?" 

What we eat and how much is directly affecting the ecology of the planet.  Our demands for specific, energy intensify foods are as stressful to the planet as transportation.  They are tied together.

Moderation is needed.  No meat?  Not at all.  Rabbit is one of the most energy effecient digestive machine available.  Rabbit manure is recycleable directly without burning plants.  The advantages are endless. Hydroponics in conjunction with fisheries is viable for both small and large scale production.   Options for systematic, low impact agriculature are incredibly varied.  The knowledge base is incredible.  The practice isn't.

Food production does not need to be a burdon on our planet (or our 'souls') if profits and consumption are not the first considerations. 

And the alternatives to moderation and healthy alternatives to current trends will not require 2 or 3 generations to be felt.

by sometimes blinded (4 articles, 106 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 614 comments [51 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 8:27:03 AM

  (0+)

One gets the feeling that what the author of this article wants is not so much finding ways to produce food with as little negative impact as possible on the planet, but impose her rigid, intolerant beliefs on other people and control their lives.

I have given up on big animals, but I am not a complete vegetarian either because I don't suscribe to the notion that all meat is evil. Free range chickens, rabbits, eggs, fish do not destroy the planet anymore than intensive farrming of cereals, fruit and veggies. In fact, the core of the matter, as said above, is not so much what is produced, but how it is produced.

I am ecologically aware and dislike cruelty to animals, waste and destruction of ressources but such an intolerant and mean spirited article does a disservice to the cause it aims to defend.

by francine (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 385 comments) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 9:57:49 AM

  (0+)

I think it is wonderful that you have decided to leave off eating "big animals." That was my first step on my journey towards a more healthful and compassionate diet. I never ate rabbits, but I soon discovered that eating chickens, ducks, turkeys, and fish are no more healthful, compassionate, or environmentally sound than eating cows, sheep, or pigs. If you knew what chickens were fed or the filthy conditions they "lived" in, it would turn your stomach. And if you knew how tightly packed together most egg-laying hens are confined in, it might reduce your appetite for eggs.

Regarding fish, most of the world's fishing waters are not only comparable to toxic toilet bowls, (and "fish farms" are no better.) According to many scientists, the ocean's fish are being depleted so fast that eating seafood might be just a memory in 40 years. How's that a good thing for the environment?

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 12:53:52 PM

  (0+)

First, Ms. Davis, thank you for an eloquent article.  Short, sweet and yet to the point.  I would like to comment on the comments that you received for your views.

 Mr. WML, you state that you would "much rather Ms. Davis spend her time on keeping our political freedom than keeping our cows".  Indeed, Ms. Davis is working on her political freedom.  Isn't it the first amendment that allows her the freedom of speech?  Further, our "farms" today are governed by government subsidies.

Direct payment subsidies are provided to farmers regardless of commodity prices or farm income levels. Despite record prices for some crops and for net income for subsidized crops, and projections of similar market and income conditions over the next five years, Congress is poised spend another $26 billion on direct payment subsidies under the 2008 farm subsidy bill.  Like other crop subsidies, direct payments are heavily concentrated in the hands of the very largest farm operations.

This means that fewer and fewer small farms exist today.  Our "farms' today are really giant factory farms.  These factory farms produce wase lagoons and manure sprayfields (just to name a few) - two widespread andenvironmentalyy hazardous technologies that are poorly regulated.  

Most factory farm animals are crowded into small areas.  Their waste is sent to massive waste lagoons.  These often break, overflow or leak, allowing microbes, nitrate pollution and drug resistant bacteria into our water sources.  The lagoons emit toxic gases such as ammonia, hydrogen sulfide and methane.  Did you know that these "farms" spray the manure onto the land (as fertilizer) which brings even more harmful substances into our air and water.  (for more information on this please go to http://www.nrdc.org)

Susan commented that it could be argued that it isn't what we eat, rather how we produce it.  She says "You still have to kill some plants to eat them, though, so that wouldn't work for me, I'm afraid - it's all life to me, and none less alive than any other."  We are talking the difference between eating a plant or an animal.  The plant is not a sentient being.  It does not have the ability to feel pain and stress.  Plants do not nurse their young and stay in herds or packs.  While true that a plant is living, it is not comparable to an animal and to make the comparison is simply incredible.

Mention was also made to "free range" animals. Regulations governing the application of free range to birds raised for meat in the US, mainly chicken and turkeys, are scarcely more strict than the nonexistent rules governing the applicationof that term to egg-laying poultry.  Poultry raised for meat may be sold as "free range" only if the birds so designated have access to the outdoors.  That access must be certified by the USDA, which reviews and approves labels for federally inspected meat products.  No other criteria, vegetation, range size, number of birds, or space per bird are implied by this term.

For example, chickens can live active lives for up to 15 years, but after a year or two commercial free range hens are hauled away in transport crates the same as are battery hens, who spend all their lives in cages.  Free range status is misleading the public who believe that free range means that the meat is healthier and more humane.  It is simply a myth.  Free range birds are still debeaked to prevent pecking due to overcrowding.

(you can learn more at http://students.washington.edu/careuw/freerangemyth.pdf and please note that the some of the information listed above was taken from this site)

And finally Francine, who states that "I am ecologically aware and dislike cruelty to animals, waste and destruction of ressources but such an intolerant and mean spirited article does a disservice to the cause it aims to defend." I am just perplexed.  I don't find the same mean spirit in the article.  Rather, I see someone who wants you to take the time to think of the impacts that all of our choices make.  My belief is that the article was intended to provoke people to see over the fence to the other side.

I myself am on the other side as well with Ms. Davis.  I believe there is a more compassionate way to live and that our food should not come from the torture and abuse of an animal who is afraid all of it's life.  Afraid, sick, force fed, force bred and slaughtered sometimes without the use of numbing drugs.

The whole case for behaving decently to animals rests on the fact that we are th superior species.  We ar ethe species uniquely capable of imagination, rationality and moral choice and that is precisely why we are under an obligation to recognize and respect the rights of animals.
- Brigid Brophy

by KD (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:17:14 PM

  (0+)

I learned most of what you describe (and quite more) by reading the excellent series of books by Melissa Rossi entitled "What Every American Should Know About...Who's Really Running America...Who's Reallly Running The World...the Rest of the World...Europe."  No progressive could approve of such treatment of living entities and this planet.  That is why I constantly promote a community based communal solution to the provision of the necessities of life.  We should not have to rely on Albertsons or Publix or some remote slaughterhouse or lettuce field to provide our communities with the food we need to exist.  We are technologically advanced enough to take turns at farming the local arable land, use available open space for fruit and nut bearing trees, and even decrease our work week to about twenty hours a week.  Most of what we do is the useless movement of paper for outdated corporate structures. 

I agree with you and the original poster on basically every point except the poster's argument that what I eat is her business.  There simply is more fundamental  change at issue than diet, and we must remain ever vigilant as we test the waters of socialism to insure that freedom be preserved at all costs.  Socialism is wrought with the danger of totalitarianism, and attitudes like those of the author, as well-natured and high-valued as they are, still  remain that exact road to that totalitarianism.  As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 7:23:31 PM

  (0+)

I agree with you that much of the environmental devastation that takes place is due to all the toxic chemicals used in all conventional food production. Humans really need to wake up and stop poisoning their own planet, by going back to organic food production methods. But it takes far less land and water to support a vegetarian diet than a meat-based one, and far less land and water to support a vegan diet than a vegetarian one. And you don't have to cut down trees in order to grow plant foods. In fact, orchards are the most environmentally friendly use of land for the purposes of growing food for humans. It's absurd to say that raising meat is a far better solution for keeping the air, ground, and water safe and clean. Take away the pesticides, herbicides, and other toxic chemicals used to rear and feed these animals, and you still have massive air and water pollution. Increasing the number of cattle to meet the world's growing appetite for beef (particularly in China), is simply not sustainable. There is not enough arable land on the planet to support the Standard American Diet should most of the people living in China choose to adopt it. Raising cattle for food also wastes enormous amounts of water and food that could go to feed people directly. It takes 5,000 gallons of water to produce 1 lb. of beef, and 60%-80% of the grains we grow are used to fatten cattle. Imagine how many more people we could feed, if that grain was used to feed people, instead? It's simple: Feed one person a meat-based diet, or feed 12-14 people a vegan diet. The argument that eating plants involves killing them and therefore, is in some way equal to taking the life of a pig or a cow or a rabbit is weak. We have not been able to identify central nervous systems in plants, and therefore, we have no reason to believe that they suffer when they are killed. However, it is painfully clear that chickens, cows, fish, and pigs all know when they are going to die, and fear for their lives and value them as much as you and I value our own. It is not so much about loving these animals, as acknowledging that I do not need to cause harm to them in order to be strong and healthy. Quite the contrary: Eating a pure plant-based diet protects me from heart disease, stroke, breast, prostate, and colon cancer, osteoporosis, diabetes, and other diseases of affluence.

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:17:20 PM

  (0+)

And it's caused by Corporation Control of our Food Supply.

High Fructose Corn Syrup, MSG (MonoSodiumGlutamate) Hydrodgenated Vegitable oil, GMO Plants, modified to except Roundup which is a pesticide and is taken up into the plant and you comsume it when you eat these foods.

High Fructose Corn Syrup is taken from these GMO plants and it is now put in just about everything that uses sugar. You have to read labels in order to not get poisoned by these  chemical additives, and then you don't know what your getting

If it isn't Natural, don't eat it. In order to eat nutritional food that has what your cellular system requires, you have to go back to Nature.

The best food now available with everything we need is in the ocean and that is where we will get our food in the future. In fact right now there is a product that has Marine phytoplankton, the most nutrional rich food on the planet, and it's called "FrequenSea" I've been taking it for 8 months now and it has changed my health more that anything I have taken for years.

http://www.my-healthy.info/4u

Read those Labels and stay healthy

Mel

by Mel Smith (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 60 comments [21 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:21:20 PM

  (0+)

Since insects are the most efficient way of growing and delivering protein to the human food supply, I am proposing a law to force all Americans to start eating bugs at least one meal a day.

Unless someone thinks free people shouldn't be told by their government (or busybody neighbors) what to eat.  Or think.

by UncleSim (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 511 comments [73 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:21:51 PM

  (0+)

However, such flippancy does nothing to address the immediate crises of global warming, environmental devastation, human suffering, and animal suffering.

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:39:02 PM

  (0+)

Human suffering, ok.  The rest are pet issues, not crises.  Sorry.

by UncleSim (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 511 comments [73 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:40:58 PM

  (0+)

Global warming, environmental devastastion, and animal suffering? How does one respond to that? I don't even know where to begin, except to say that to me, these are some of the most important issues of our time. We're destroying the planet with our greed and short-sightedness. And as Albert Schweitzer once said, "Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man, himself will not know peace."

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:53:07 PM

  (0+)

Global Warming - The prevailing scientific viewpoint is that the Sun has the greatest effect on Earth's temperatures, no matter how important we think we are.  I am all for living efficiently and cleanly, but government intervention is hardly the best way to effect changes.  Tell me, if the majority of people already believe that cleaning up their supposedly globe-warming activities is a good thing, then how much can the government's force add to the cause?

Environmental Devastation - I must have missed the news about the Meteor Crash, or the Earthquakes that released petroleum and deadly gases from within the earth.  Or did global cooling bring more ice to cover otherwise arable land from the farmers' tools?

Animal Suffering - I love my cat, and for that matter, all animals.  I'd hate to see them suffer.  But how is this a world crisis?  Are they saving their pent-up aggression, waiting to pounce on an unsuspecting humanity?  Personally, I believe human suffering, especially hunger, is a more serious problem than any animal suffering.

Do you see the difference now?  These are not threats to human life.  They are your personal pet fears, and you are making issues out of them.  Pet Issues.

You advise another commenter that 'to tread lightly' is all you're trying to say, but you're advocating the use of Government to do it.  Government, whose primary tools are violence, and the threat of violence.  So how is turning a violent mechanism on people in favor of animals and trees going to make the world a better place for people?  How will it reduce HUMAN suffering?

by UncleSim (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 511 comments [73 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Saturday, Oct 11, 2008 at 2:57:57 PM

  (0+)

It would seem that irresponsible ranching and farming methods are more likely to have an effect on their lands and waters than my desire for a chicken nugget or cheeseburger.

Basically, unless my eating habits have a direct effect on you, they are none of your f***ing business.  If the farmers who produce my food offend you, talk to them. If a farmer is polluting its neighbors' land and water, then that farmer should be sued.  If the government is denying your right to eat what you want, then come talk to us.

America's about freedom, isn't it?

by UncleSim (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 511 comments [73 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Saturday, Oct 11, 2008 at 5:00:52 PM

  (0+)

about a year ago and not only have I lost 45lbs I needed to lose, I feel better and look better.

I actually was forced to quit eating meat for health reasons and started to investigate food industry in general and what I found out about our food industry has driven me even further away from all processed foods.

I have no doubt that food is being used as a weapon to destroy our health and feed the corrupt system that wants us sick. Cancer 30 years ago had a 30 to 1 ratio today it's 2 to 1. Not to mention diabetes and all matter of food related illnesses have shy-rocketed.

Bush completely let lose any regulations on the food industry, we now have meats that are soaked in bacteria. You tell people this and they think you're nuts, but it's true.

CODEX Alimentarius alone is so jaw-droopingly diabolical as to stop one in their tracks. Started by a convicted Nazi war criminal that supplied the poison for Hitler's death camps, it sets nutritional stands for food worldwide and its mandatory implementation goes into effect Dec. 31, 2009, and in their own papers states 3,000,000,000 people will die. that's right - 3 BILLION.

Don't believe me - find out for yourself.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 3:58:55 PM

  (0+)

I can think of nothing scarier than this. Thank you for making us all aware.

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:16:57 PM

  (0+)

All the points made in this piece are important and I agree completely. It IS Gail's business, and in fact, it is my business, and everyone else's business as well, when individuals' actions effect the rights and freedoms of others. We need people to speak up and provoke thought or nothing will ever change. All of the havoc wreaked by animal agriculture needs to stop. I know many of you wonder what gives anyone the right to suggest what you eat. In my opinion, eating animals should not be a right. I understand this sound very radical. But why is one being more valuable, and worthy of freedom than another? I realize it is ingrained in people's thoughts that eating animals is just part of the natural order of things, but does that make it right? Should people not speak out to try and prevent the needless torture of sentient beings? I for one, think they should. Just like I speak out on the injustices of human persecution and war. I am a human rights and animal rights advocate. I am a vegan. I am a vegan not because I love animals. I am a vegan because I am against abuse and murder. I am a vegan because I believe in right and wrong and in my opinion, the needless killing of any living creature is wrong. So just as it is my business to try and make sure that all people have the right to live free, it is my business what you eat when it effects the rights of innocent sentient beings. Thank you Gail for posting this piece which will provoke people to consider the consequences of their food choices.

by Arnold Freeman (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 5:19:36 PM

  (0+)

You made several great points in a very clear way.  Thank you.

by Vegan Marr (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 8 comments) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 3:00:39 AM

  (0+)

I've only been saying this since 2002.  I have written the Democratic Party, the Green Party, the Republican Party, many environmental and Left groups for years.

 If you subscribed to Care2 millions of Americans are making the switch - Care2 has over 9,000,000 members and vegetarian is the dominant way of life.

by Barker (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 120 comments) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 9:33:34 PM

  (0+)

have all sorts of environmental problems now? I wonder how people on the planet would have had to have lived for the planet not to have environmental problems caused by people?  Maybe this will come someday to this old Indian? 

I was reading about the 400 dead spots in the ocean many off the coasts of Nations including your Nation that comes from all the poisons your farmers put on the crops they raise as well as other things.  The crops you eat & even vegans eat.

You flipped on a light switch today & destroyed the earth a little more.  You turned on your computer today & destroyed the earth a little more.  You connected to the internet & through your internet provider that also uses electric you destroyed the earth a little more. You perhaps used some for of earth polluting transportation today & destroyed the earth a little more.  You buy your clothes at earth destroying stores that buy them from earth destroying factories around the planet.

Whole lotta earth destroying going on all over the planet.  I am not concerned about these things at all.  Nations rise & Nations fall.  Worlds rise & worlds come to their end.  I always enjoy a good end of the world.  Nothing like a rousing Apocalypse.  A rousing apocalypse happens either through the use of weapons smart people would have never built or through the destruction of their planet through their pollution. 

There are actually very few ways to live upon a planet without the people of a planet destroying the planet through their pollution.  Maybe this old Indian will figure out the way to live upon a planet without destroying the planet through either pollution or the weapons smart people would have never invented?

The Hopi are estimated to be a Tribe of 35, 000 years.  By the time I was 11 I was 1000's of years old because even though I was going to your type of schools I was also attending Indian school being taught by Indians who were 1000's of years old.

When I was in what you call the 7th grade I used to laugh within when your style of teachers started talking about a thing they called, The Future.  I knew they didn't know the real future at all.  In what you call the 11th grade the Government teacher liked me & said he liked talking to me because I would tell him exactly what your Nation was going to turn into as well as the rest of the planet.

When I saw the current leader of your Nation for the first time on tv when he was just running for what you call his political parties nomination to run against Gore I said he would start leading your Nation into wars, start taking away your rights under your Constitution as you call this thing, and call for the New World Order.

He has done all 3 things. 

Since our histories & stories have been passed along from generation to generation through the oral method their are stories of the one you call Jesus living with & teaching some Tribes long before Columbus sailed & long before the Pilgrims arrived.  I've had lots of fun with Atheists who couldn't figure out my knowledge of Jesus did not come from the Europeans living upon our land without paying us any rent, nor any of what they call their religions, or their book.

Jesus did tell his disciples after his resurrection that he had to leave them to go feed other sheep elsewhere.  The he ascended back up into the Kingdom/Dimension from where he came that is always watching & listening to this Dimension.  Hard to say everywhere Jesus went & fed other sheep & when.  Be interesting to be able to die, come back to life, leave this world into another dimension & come back again to other places to other people at other times.

Both Interdimensional & time travel would be accomplished. 

Yes, there are very few ways people can live upon a planet without destroying themselves with either weapons they should have been smart enough not to invent, or without polluting themselves to death.  And human beings invented money.  As soon as money was invented you have this world as it is now.

by shadow dancer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1115 comments [121 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:06:30 PM

  (0+)

dear Shadow Dancer, is tread as lightly as we can on the Earth. This is at the heart of my message.

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:38:08 PM

  (0+)

You are a true philosopher.  I have little doubt the Christ visited the Hopi.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 7:44:29 PM

  (0+)

When the PETA crowd can convince tigers and crocodiles and birds and spiders to stop consuming other living things, they may have something to pay attention to. Until then, stay out of my face. Somebody get me a cheeseburger.

by Scott (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 744 comments [30 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:17:06 PM

  (0+)

These animals are carnivores. They have no choice but to eat meat. Humans are not carnivores. For us, eating meat is a choice, not a necessity. Additionally, these animals do not destroy the Earth, waste precious resources, spread toxic chemicals, or create pollution in order to satisfy their hunger. Nor do they generally eat foods that will kill them. Animals are smart enough to know what foods will keep them vibrantly healthy.

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:46:22 PM

  (0+)

our daily actions would only affect our own body and well-being. But we all share the great community water, air and land. The state of all three are collectively affected by EVERYONE's habits. If I eat all organic food, I still share the effects of what other people's non-organic foods are doing to the air and water and land. Even if I eat all plant foods, which take a very small amount of water to produce, I still am affected by the lack of water supply due in large part to so many people eating beef--which can take from 2000 to 5000 gallons of water to produce ONE POUND! (varies according to the state & rainfall amount). I am affected by the antibiotics and hormones that are injectected into animals, which end up in their poop that gets put on our crops and end up in our streams. We are raising millions of food animals! Does the consumer think about what a huge amount of poop they create? There are stockpiles--MOUNTAINS of it--in all of our agricultural areas.

Statisically vegans have far less cancer, stroke, heart disease, osteoporosis, diabetes, than their animal flesh and animal product-eating counterparts. Yet ALL taxpayers share in the cost of healthcare and environmental cleanup, due (respectively) to the consumption and production of animal foods.

So there are second-hand effects of meat, dairy and egg consumption.

Yes, there are a wide variety of actions we can take to be gentler on the earth. It is a fact however, that what we choose to put on the end of our fork 3x a day, is the choice that has the biggest impact.

When we kill animals, they in turn kill us--in the form of heart disease, stroke, cancer, diabetes, etc. Cows have long surpassed cars as the #1 most damaging entity to the environment. Air and water are our most BASIC needs for life.... yet we are wasting and polluting both at such an obscene rate, as if the supplies were infinite. THEY ARE NOT.

For me, the primary reason I became vegan was a respect for life...ALL life. I acknowledged how deeply I loved my dog, and wondered then how I could justify eating other animals. Just because they weren't someone's pet or weren't as cute and cuddly, didn't give me the right to take away their gift of life. Why should I think their life is less precious to them than mine is to me? Sadly, we have been brought up to look at animals as food, as a commodity, as replaceable.

My favorite bumper sticker is one created by www.farmsanctuary.org   It  reads: "If you love animals called pets, why do you eat animals called dinner???"

Food for thought. :-)

Peace,

Marr

by Vegan Marr (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 8 comments) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 5:09:24 AM

  (0+)

So did you give up your earth destroying electricity today?  Did you give up all your earth destroying forms of transportation?  Did you give up going to your earth destroying stores?  Did you give up going to your earth destroying places of employment? 

 What, No.  Go figure.

The Europeans came & built their world here upon the destruction of the Native peoples so they could have their money money money earth destroying materialistic world of destruction only to find in the long run of time the way they live upon the earth is destroying themselves, too.

That's the circle. 

I post at Native Sites where the people have great sorrow in their hearts about the destruction of the earth.  I tell them the truth that this world is run by the money money money people & they aren't going to stop anytime soon so they might as well not worry about these things or fear these things.

You aren't going to give up your money because you can't live without money just like most everyone else on the planet can't live without money.  But you'll continue to weep, wail, & gnash your teeth about the world your destroying just like most everyone else upon the planet, or you'll be weeping, wailing, & gnashing your teeth about all the problems of your Nation that the Native people's did not found nor built.

All things are going to do is get worse upon the earth while Banks & Corporations continue to solidify their worldly power through the politicians they have bought & paid for in your Nation & around the planet. 

 I doubt you can even fathom how much worse things are going to get upon this planet at this time.  You've come so far to find yourselves nowhere at all. 

by shadow dancer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1115 comments [121 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 10:03:55 AM

  (0+)

Dear Shadow Dancer, your points are well taken, but you are missing my point. Do you not know that many of us feel trapped by modern society, and long for a return to a simpler, more wholesome, more Earth-loving way of life? And many of us are doing what we can to move in that direction. But right now in this moment, all any of us can do is tread as lightly as possible on the Earth, given the condition of the world we live in. And that means making daily choices that effectively reduce our negative impact on the Earth, ourselves, and others.

Personally, I dream of living in a solar-powered home, in a community that is self-sufficient enough so that I can ride my bicycle or walk everywhere I need to go, eating food that is 100% organically grown by myself and members of my community. But right now, since the consumption of animals uses an enormous amount of water, creates an enormous amount of pollution, wastes an enormous amount of energy, creates an enormous amount of suffering in both humans and animals, and is the single greatest contributor to global warming, the most effective thing that I or most anyone else can do to reduce our impact on the Earth, is to eat as far down on the food chain as possible. In the over-populated, profit-driven world we live in, growing plant foods to feed humans requires far less land, far less water, far less energy, far less pollution, and far less suffering than animal foods.

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:05:10 AM

  (0+)

Editor's note: This article was flagged for inappropriate content.  I personally find the characterization of the Israelites objectionable, but I object to many editorials on this website and do not believe that this is sufficient cause for censorship.  In general, while there are exceptions (e.g., hate speech), I support freedom of speech and a marketplace of ideas and will promote those values when possible.  I am reflagging this comment to promote it to an article. 

Did you read the article about all the animals in decline as well as facing extinction, Gail.  Do you know how many animals are already extinct because of the way you live upon the earth?  If you live in America or Canada do you know the names of the Tribes who land you are living upon & have you considered paying the nearest Tribe rent?

Myself, & mine as well as many others I know that include people of all races can live upon the earth without your world if we still had our Tribal lands. 

Many people in your Nation live in Ghettos, Slums, Barrios, or whatever you desire to call them.  Many others live in apartments, mobile homes, their cars, tents, or are completely homeless.  Others live on Reservations.

Do you think your some real big spiritual somebody because you have money enough to live in a solar community & don't eat meat?  Don't delude yourself in the least about such things.  All your trying to do is hustle your politics and butt your nose into the business of other people who have the right to live their lives, and hustle a buck in your buck hustling world, too.

Indeed people do have the right to choose.  The right to choose means they have the right to make their own decisions about their own lives that you seem to be trying to deny them. 

Columbus chose to try & find India.  He chose to murder, rape, & enslave the Native peoples in South America.  Spain chose further to purse the murder, theft, and rape of the land to build their Empire upon the earth.

George Washington murdered off Tribes that helped the British, and also the Tribes that helped him.  Every subsequent President chose to further murder off Tribes, and steal their lands one way or the other to do what, build this world.  Let me bow down and worship you & your world.

Through known history criminally insane men & women who sought their own glory & to build their Nation states murdered & stole to get what they want as they even do the same things today & employ all the same manners of deceptions to do these things.

My life isn't any of your business unless I decide to tell you about my life.  Nor is the life of any other single person you business unless they decide to make known their life to you.  Not the Native people's fault the Europeans coming here  built a self destructive crap world where most everyone upon the planet are now the slaves of money.

Whether I hunt, fish, grow my own food, buy food at a store, or go to a restuarant what I eat isn't your business at all. 

Wonderful day today upon planet earth.  Spent the day with friends in the woods.  We laughed about your world trying now to save the earth.  Depending on how old you are I've been following the destruction of the earth in this land & around the planet perhaps for more years than you or most people here have been alive.

Here's what I do, I don't concern myself at all with the destruction of the earth.  I don't concern myself at all who the leader of your Nation is or what they do or don't do while in what they call their term in office.

I enjoy every day of life & everything that has happened to me, all the people I have met regarless of how completely different they may be from me just as long as they didn't try to live my life for me, & didn't try to make my decisions for me.

A mentally retarded Korean boy some people brought back to this land used to make the symbol of a Bear when he saw me because in his mind I appeared to him as Bear like.  Bears are a symbol to the Native peoples of this land that we call Turtle Island.  We consider Turtle Island to be a Holy Land, but one that now has been defiled.  My clan is the Bear Clan.  I know animals inside and out including the human animal upon the earth.

I went to your style of schools & studied a bit of the crap information I would never need in life that was presented to me, but I was actually studying white folks.  I was studying why you are so strange of a people who make life so hard & far more difficult than life has to be for any person.

If you were smart people you would have known how to live with the earth in the first place , and how to live with each other without being boring pretentious obnoxious nauseating drags.  But it's all about you, isn't, Gail.  No one else matters upon the earth, but you.  Your living in your fairy tale solar camp while people live in ghettos, or are homeless,  in apartments, on Reservations, in mobile homes, travel trailers, motor homes, tents, homes, in cities, towns, & burgs across the land that is now yours.

Yeah, Gail, not everyone lives in a solar camp.  A black woman I met said the police didn't come to her neighborhood until the shooting stopped.  She said she covered her & her baby with a mattress at night to protect themselves from the shooting.  I was living in real drive by shoot m up neighborhood at the time as I was traveling & staying with friends.

Sat out on the porch every night much to the fears of the people I was staying with at the time.  During the day I played guitar & sang on the porch.  The children of the Hood & their parents would gather round & we'd have a good time.

It's a good day to be alive.  Life is good.  Wrote a song today, and a line sketch for another song.  From there I returned to Seattle where I got famous on a minor level like I do everywhere I go through music even though previously living in Seattle I had gotten famous by getting conversations started about Jesus in a bar & grill in the University District where I lived at the time.  And all I did was sit there, Gail, I seldom ever spoke perferring to let other people speak their thoughts.

One night an Indian who I had never seen one night came in the bar & grill, came up to me, and said to me, you called me.  I get around without even getting around, but mostly to other people of Native heritage. 

The Israelites were in the habit of killing their prophets while the Native Tribes of Turtle Island were in the habit of listening to their prophets.  Yep, the buffalo don't thunder across the plains anymore running free & wild, but semi's, cars do thunder across the plains and all places elsewhere upon the highways...

You have the freedom of choice to hustle your politics live in your solar community & I have the freedom of choice to ignore your world all together as I have always done. 

Do you got some cash...for their cash registers...they buy & sell everything upon the earth.  The buy & sell...pretty, nice, & cool...the hired help..reaching out their hands like beggers for the cash...but they got to eat, too, you know...you know..in the money man's slave world that he loves...

The politicians begs for votes.  The business person begs for business.  The jobless beg for a job.  The street person begs for spare change.  Perhaps all are but beggers upon the earth?

The planet orbits. 

Peace

by shadow dancer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1115 comments [121 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:17:42 PM

  (0+)

Darn you Gail.  With your fine essay you just made my life more busy when I'm looking to quiet down with the passing years.  Because you have made it your business what other people eat you have now, articulately, robbed me of my procrastination to adopt a similar perspective.  I've actually known for many years the truth of your essay but have avoided the full consequence of such insight as I have busied myself with other causes and issues, etc.  I'm now wearing a political button that is handed out by the Nader for President campaign.  "To know and not to do is not to know."  So now I've got no choice, you have awakened the moral imperative and given me a whole new batch of work to do.  Add one more voice to the choir singing for future generations.  Thank you for making it your business, I'll do the same!

by Michael Richardson (107 articles, 22 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 78 comments) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 12:18:47 PM

  (0+)

for making it yours!

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:24:32 PM

  (0+)

Although I might not agree with all the points presented, I am still impressed with the respect given to others with differing points of view. 

I received this little bit of humour some might enjoy:

by CasaZaza (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 202 comments [15 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 12:37:26 PM

  (0+)

Thank you for injecting some wittiness into this discussion. I actually laughed out loud a couple of times, and I especially like this one:

Q: Is swimming good for your figure?
A: If swimming is good for your figure, explain whales to me.

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:31:16 PM

  (0+)

Dear Ms. Davis,

 Thank you so much for your very valuable article.  Unfortunately, there are many human beings who walk this earth in a state of being "vertically dead."  Totally uncaring, unconcerned and unaware of their contributing presence and how their personal bi-products and their total disregard for life, effects all of us as it contaminates the world we all have to co-habitat together in. 

  It is one planet, one ego system.   If we choose to ignore the scientific facts that killing and eating animals effects the total world's population, then there is no hope for turning this planet around.  Increasing toxicity plays an enormous role in increasing diseased environmental toxicity & an exponential rise in the incidence of: Autism, ADD/ADHD, Addictions, Asthma, Childhood Cancer, Anxiety/Depression, Allergies, Multiple Sclerosis, Fibromyalgia, Obesity, chronic fatigue, Cancer, Lupus, Dementia, heart disease, and diabetes. 

Environmental toxins such as toxic heavy metals, pesticides, herbicides, artificial sweetener, dyes, and chemicals in our soaps, laundry and shampoos have contributed to poisoning our neurological, immune and endocrine systems.  Leading to Alzheimer’s, Autism, Parkinson's, MS, ALS and mental disorders, along with infections, auto-immune conditions, RA, Lupus, and inflammatory-atherosclerosis.  Not to mention diabetes Mellitus, hyper/hypo gland dysfunction, infertility and sexual dysfunction, all because we have become a world of people who’s disregard for others and greed through selfishness is what drives the human beings that live on this planet. 

Those who feel you are preaching religion to them with this article obviously don't know that the top 15 diseases that top the charts in the recent years are: 

• All causes .......................... 2,425,901

•1 Diseases of heart ....................... 629,191

•2 Malignant neoplasms................. 560,102

•3 Cerebrovasculardiseases .....................137,265

•4 Chronic lower respiratory diseases ......124,614

•5 Accidents (unintentional injuries) .......117,748

•6 Alzheimer’s disease............................... 72,914

•7 Diabetes mellitus ............................... 72,507

•8 Influenza and pneumonia .................... 56,247

•9 Nephritis, nephroticsyndrome . . . 44,791

•10 Septicemia ................................... 34,031

•11 Intentional self‐harm (suicide) .......... 32,185

•12 Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis .. 27,299

•13 Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease …3,985

•14 Parkinson’s disease............................19,660

•15 Assault (homicide).................... 18,029  

Most All caused by toxicity to our bodies made by human beings.  You can’t run from it. It’s in the air.  If you inhale 5000-8000 gallons of air each day, you are already tipping the edge of disease. In 2002, the US facilities released 4.7 lbs of toxins into the air and 72 million lbs are known carcinogens as the EPA knows this.  In Chicago, there were 68 days when air was too unhealthy for children, elderly & the ill.  

Everything we do, eat and destroy effects every person on this planet.   So, when cows are injected with rBGH to increase the milk production from 3 gallons a day to 50 gallons a day, they acquire pus clusters that rot at the end of the titts of the cow. Now antibiotics are employed.  All these drugs not only enter our consumer’s bodies, but also our soil.  From there it enters the water supply and onto other humans who will now have to find a way to adapt to chemicals, hormones and antibiotics that were never meant for a human being.  This is true for all animal farming.  From chickens, to fish to cattle, etc.

 If a person gets cancer from all of this, then they go to conventional cancer treatments, chemo, and as they urinate, their chemicals are eventually evaporated up into the clouds for toxic winds to dump onto our water supply.  There are massive amounts of birth control drugs, cholesterol lowering drugs, antibiotics and chemotherapy chemical found in our water that no filtration system can take out.  

 In 2002 the core blood samples were taken of over 1,000 fetuses and found over 259 toxic chemicals in the blood of unborn babies.  Some of these were gasoline, Teflon, DDT, dioxin and laundry softeners.  Upon biopsying tissue samples at the morgue, there are over 600 toxic chemical found in our tissues that weren’t even on this planet before 1949. 

by Spice Williams-Crosby (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 7:55:07 PM

  (0+)

Thank you, Ms. Williams-Crosby, for bringing to light so many more of the ways we humans have been poisoning ourselves and the planet. I sincerely hope that Americans will wake up out of their collective coma (I love what you wrote "the vertical dead"), and begin to take personal responsibility for their own health and the health of our environment. The number of toxins we are constantly exposed to is unfathomable to most people. But it's time that we all take a hard look at these issues, and quickly figure out a way to drastically reduce not only our carbon footprint, but the toxicity we create through our buying habits and lifestyle choices.

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 at 10:34:02 PM

  (0+)

can Indians come & live in your Solar Camp rent free?  I would doubt very much those that raise moo cows would want Indians coming on their land & living rent free?  I've never exactly ever met any white folks who said to me, Hey come and live with me rent free? 

Native people's lived upon the earth for 1000's & 1000's of years rent free.  Then Columbus sailed.  Then the Pilgrims landed.  I sure don't know how they ever lived for 1000's & 1000's of years on the earth without Europeans?  Earth have environmental problems now?  Go figure.  All these problems only 113 years after the last of the Tribes were rounded up.  Well, the white folks have their buck hustling world where nothing is free.  This is the world they built.  Every Nation upon the earth is pretty much sucked into their money money money system now with a few remote Tribes still living the old way or original way with the earth & each other.  Hopefully the cash register world will never get to them, but it may one day.  Root them off their land, their traditional way of living, & enslave them to the cash register.

Maybe they can hustle a buck then raising moo cows?  Just like you those who raise moo cows have to hustle a buck, too, as they have to eat, too.  Farmers have to hustle a buck, too, & use all manner of poisons that end up in the ocean, rivers, lakes, ground water.  Hard to tell all the effects of nuclear testing, & DUI.  Read the micro particles of exhaust fumes of cars & such are horrible for the lungs but non smokers still drive their cars filthing up the air.

That's the way white folks live upon the earth.  That's the way they forced people in this land to live.  Not everyone has the money for a Solar Camp.  Lots of people living in ghettos, but I am sure like those raising moo cows using water that belongs to some Tribes or many Tribes as they may import through pipelines aren't going to pay the Tribe either rent or for the money the water they use.

If they got the money to pay for the water they use & you don't like it then that's a thing called 2 bad just as it's a thing called 2 bad for the Tribes that your here upon our lands & have taken away our lands & our traditional way of living simply with the earth.

That's the way life is for many people, just 2 bad, when the white folks want land that doesn't belong to them, or anything else people have that don't belong to them.  Just 2 bad if your Nation is a mess, and just 2 bad if your destroying the earth, & being polluted death because we're being polluted to death, too.

Read about all the pollution from China that ends up in  California through the winds.  What can I tell the Californians living upon their stolen Indian land except, well that's just 2 bad, as sometimes there are people who do things that affect you & you can't do anything about things, so you might as well get on with living & enjoying your life because the Chinese have to eat, too, you know..you know..After all they're providing the slave labor for most of the products Marycanz buy. 

The planet orbits.  What fun!!!  Life is good.  Life if fun. 

by shadow dancer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1115 comments [121 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:26:12 AM

  (0+)

Because my skin is white, you think that I have something to do with the plight of your people dear Shadow Dancer, or any other of the native peoples of this land. But that is not true. I am not of Western European descent, and my people did not come here and take the land from your people, and then destroy it. With such thinking, you and I could never come together and find solutions to the problems we both face today. And I do hope that we could find a way to work together in peace to build a better world.

Because you and I both share the same needs for clean air, clean water, clean food, and a clean, safe place to call home. You and I both wish to live in harmony with the land, its animals, and its people. Can we not find a way to work together to create such a place?

“Life is not a continuum of pleasant choices, but of inevitable problems that call for strength, determination, and hard work.” 

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 4:40:17 PM

  (0+)

Don't you think it should be the business of every Tribe that your living here upon our land?  Doesn't matter if you came some time later you still living on land stolen from a Tribe unless your living upon Manhatten Island.  Your being here is affecting every Tribe so since you think you have some right to tell other people to live & what to do because it affects your life then shouldn't the Tribes have the same exact right to butt into your life because your life is affecting this land & every Tribe.

Your living on Tribal land without paying a dime to the Tribe it legally belongs to as what a thief steals never belongs to the thief even if the thief sells what is stolen to someone else what was stolen always belongs to the original owners.  Your Nation has laws against the buying & selling of stolen property but I haven't noticed in the history of your Nation they exactly obeyed any of their own laws in regards to other races, or even their own people who were poor.

 Who dressed you up & made you God with some right to tell other people how to live & what to do which seems to be a common particularity among European people?   Their are 6 billion people on the planet & a whole lot of them look at life a lot differently than you so get used to things upon planet earth. 

You have your corrupt government to complain too.   You can write them, call them, email mail, or protest in person.  Here's a clue, Gail, the Food Industry has more money than you to buy off the Politicians.  Those who raise moo cows & other animals for the food industry have more money than you to buy off the Politicians.

Read the news lately, Gail, about people losing their homes, living in tents, cars, and becoming homeless.  I doubt very much their immediate concern is the destruction of the earth.  What money is there for all those people losing their homes as your Nation has phoney wars to wage that cost billions per month, & they have to bail out all their banker friends as they've been looting your Nation's treasury all along.

In this land had the Europeans never came more than likely the land would still be one big beautiful national park except for the pollution of European lands & other Nations making it to this land through the air or water.

Many people of Tribes did not want to learn the knowlege of the Europeans because they considered such knowledge to be forbidden.  That, Gail, is quite a concept they had way back then that there was forbidden knowledge human beings did not play around with upon planet earth.

So the Europeans came built their crap boring obnoxious pretenious buy it sell it money money money world & this is now the result of their doings upon the earth while they think everyone on the planet should just be worshipping them & their America. 

No, Gail, I am not a racist.  I do have many friends of European Heritage.  Most all are poor boys & girls.  Most all them study prophecy, and one of them is the first one I met personally that studied our Native prophecies.  Most all of them wouldn't mind living how the Tribes lived in comparisson to their own corrupt money money money world.

You got the money to build your la te da solar community then good for you.  Other people don't and they don't owe you a single explanation for their lives as long as they obey the laws any more than I owe you a single explanation for my life as long as I obey the laws even though the people coming here didn't even obey their own laws because there was land to be had and all they had to do was murder the people off, or cheat them somehow.

Reading the 401K plans have lost 2 Trillion dollars.  People's life's saving, but the Greedsters got their hands on that money it is now gone.

The way things are upon a planet located somewhere in a rather large vast universe.  Or is this a large vast universe.  Could be an aquarium floating around in God's home in his realm for all anyone upon this planet actually knows. 

Strange your connected to the Net after all those companies employ, dare I say it, Meat Eaters...and they pollute the earth like nobodies business..all of them...They were doing it yesterday, doing it today, & will be doing it tomorrow..just like people will be doing it all over the planet.

You & solar community sound like you'd bore me.  A second into the European's type of schools I was bored...bored beyond belief...by the 2d day I concept of what is now the tv rerun...Same corrupt money money money world of the cash register people now as it was then...their world of manufactured reality where all reality is manufactured for people.

According to prophecy there will be around 2 billion people killed/murdered, and a lot that may be through those wonder weapons the Europeans invented & brought into reality.

You have to face reality, Gail, & you just seem to be in denial.  The reality is if human beings didn't pretty much destroy themselves with modern day weapons they would eventually pretty much pollute themselves to death if left to their own devices.  The people most likely to survive are the Tribal people still living in remote areas such as the Amazon where the cash register hasn't gotten to them yet.

I am happy the European's cash register world hasn't gotten to them yet & I hope it never does, but one never knows.

 All I can ask with all your Universities & Colleges why is Nation & the world in such a mess?  Duh!

Been a wonderful day for me, Gail.  Mixing a song tonight as I recorded some vocals to the song & getting the levels all set right.  Then I'll send the song by email to my musician buddies and buddets to gather their thoughts..I think all of them eat meat, and would just laugh at you.  One is a partner in Deli that uses meat in their samiches.  They're all kind hearted people who'll be their for their families & friends in pinch as well as help out strangers in need.  I love them all regardless of whether they eat meat not,  regardless of their skin color, & regardless of history.

We're all busy living our lives, having fun, & enjoying life to be bogged down by a bunch of mindless clueless people who think they're just really something more special because they don't eat meat.

All my friends have a great sense of humor, and they have too to be around me. 

So enjoy your la te da solar camp & who really cares considering the mathematics of human pollution at this time of planet earth human beings aren't going to save the earth.   Besides what God created he can restore or create again.  When you can create a whole universe filled with planets, stars, moons, suns, and filled with billions of life forms then you might have me impressed with yourself, but until then always realize, Gail, your not God so don't play God with other people's lives as their are already plenty of people playing God with human lives in your Nation and around the planet.

Life is good.  Life is fun.  Don't know if the black girl I met back in the 80's is still living in her shoot m up ghetto or even alive, but if she is & she wants to enjoy eating some meat it's fine with me.

by shadow dancer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1115 comments [121 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:26:08 PM

  (0+)

to feel the brunt of your anger and hostility. This solves nothing. I hope that one day you can make peace with those living around you.

It is not "playing God" as you call it, to ask others to consider the impact their daily choices have on the people, the animals, and the planet. If we do not ask others to examine how their personal choices impact the world around them, then we are not "playing good human," as far as I'm concerned.

If I had a solar camp as you call it, I would invite you to live there rent-free. But since I am not in control of who owns the land any more than you are, that will likely just remain a dream.

I was born on the island of Manhattan. Although it wasn't my choice to be born there (or anywhere), I'm glad you believe I had a right to do so.

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:20:45 PM

  (0+)

beautiful sunny day today, Gail.  Beautiful cool night last night out looking at the stars in the sky.  If you were a wise person you would know I am neither angry or hostile towards you.  I am merely stating the facts.  People often misintrepet facts for anger & hostility.  It is a fact that that Native Tribes lived for 1000's & 1000's of years upon the earth without Europeans.

Other people upon the planet are able to live upon the planet without Europeans & their worldly systems of whatever?   You got money for the cash register then everything else is so much whatever.  When the land belonged to the Tribes the water was unpolluted, the earth was green, and the people were lean.  Then the Europeans came & this is how things are now.  Time flys when your having fun.

The Food Industry has more money than you & the ability to pay people they call lobbiests to bribe politicians at all levels on a fulltime basis.  That's reality, Gail.  The Coal Industry has more money than you.  The nuclear power industry has more money than you.   I lived on the Souix Rez for a bit back in 88.  Something happened there that defies human logic, but that has happened more than a few times in my travels so these things never surprise me.

The Souix still live with the waters of their river contaminated by urainium.  Mining companies made the big money, but they aren't going to clean up the river.  Your Government isn't going to clean up the river.  All the white folks on line that say, oh we sympathize with your plight aren't going to send the Souix any money to clean up the river.  

Every Industry in your Nation has more money than you & they all employ fulltime employees to take the bribe money around to politicians at all levels.  Sorry, but I don't have any happy Horse Manure about your world because I know how things work in your world & that is badly at best.

Complete logic states that as soon as human beings departed from living like the Tribes used to live this world proceeded to this world end's but that is often misinterpreted & really means the end of this age.  In time compression as soon as human beings invented money you have the this world as this world is now through all Cause & Effect.  That's just the facts.  In time compression as soon as Europeans calling themselves Americans implemented electricty nuclear weapons came into being through Cause & Effect.

The Hopi long long ago before Manhatten Island was even thought off, before the Europeans even knew we were here had written about man made fire being invented that would eventually pretty much burn this land off the face of the earth

There were Native Tribes that wrote about all the other races upon the earth, the coming of the Europeans, the misery the Europeans would cause the Native Tribes, inventions the Europeans would invent & the destruction of the Earth.  Everything has happened.  There are reason's for these things.  As I stated the Hopi are a Tribe of an estimated 35,000 years.  35,000 years is longer than any Nation State upon the earth now.

What & who was here in this land is unknown to the other races. 

From within Tribes that kept passing their history & knowledge of things there are stories that Jesus lived & taught some Tribes in Turtle Island long before the Europeans came.  Wovoca stated Jesus visited him from God's realm in this realm.  The Native Tribes have always known there is a God & regardless of what Europeans did, & are doing know they have not shaken the faith of the Native peoples overall who have always considered ourselves to be God's children & a part of our purpose was to take care of God's creation.

 Belongs to the white's folks now so let me see you save the earth now?  I don't know even know how much the destruction of the earth plays into prophecy at this time when Jesus overthrows the all the Governments of men & starts setting up the Eternal Kingdom. 

I don't live in any fear of the destruction of the earth.  Life & death are merely things.  Don't like this happening but this the reality of the Europeans world, their style of living upon the earth, and their Government.  I don't like the thought of this land pretty much being burnt off the face of the earth by the weapons they invented, but they invented them & other Nations upon the earth have them, too.

In the writings about Mystery Babylon God states he is going to put it into the minds of men to burn the Great City located in Mystery Babylon in one hour.  To burn a city in one hour indicated the type of weapons the Europeans brought into reality that more than one Nation upon the earth has at this time.  Whether this destruction is limited to the Great City or all of Mystery Babylon I do not know.  This prophecy is a lot like the Hopi prophecy & other prophecies of another Native Tribe about a great war before the Prophet returns to gather us from the earth while the lovers of this world go on to destroy themselves.

When I travel to other Rez's I don't go there to solve their Tribe's personal problems, nor any individuals personal problems.  Our Tribes have had Prophets through all the ages, too, just like other peoples had their Prophets.

I don't have anything to do with the politics of your Nation.  I am not going to solve the problems the Europeans made for themselves & everyone else.  I don't care who the Leader of your Nation is or the Leaders of your Nations are, nor what they do or don't do in what is called their terms of office because I studied your Government that was patterned after the Roman Republic, their election laws, and how they really do things as opposed how their people think they do things.  The Europeans were called the Fork Tongued people a long time ago.  Snakes.  Animal symbology like in the symbology of the Garden of Eden.

Jesus taught his followers to be as wise as serpents & has harmless as doves.  Animal symbology.  I haven't believed a speech that has come out of either candidates mouth yet, & I wouldn't vote for them to be my leader, nor time my hand to the blood on their hands, or future blood that will be on their hands.

And yet I will do absolutely nothing to harm them.  I am not angry or hostile towards them.  I don't have to be angry, hostile, or do any harm to any person because you people are far more than good enough at harming each other in your own Nation and around the Planet.  I don't play God with anyone's life, Gail.  I don't stop anyone from making what ever freewill decisions they make about their life whether it is to raise moo cows, or eat meat, drive a car, or whatever.  If they break the law & don't have oodles of money to buy their way out then your Government tries them & puts them in a place they called prison.

I already live rent free Gail.  I have friend on many Rez's & across your Nation & in Canada.  Basically if I walk on a Rez a complete stranger I merely say a few words of draw an ancient symbol you don't know nothing about.  Kind of my passport so to speak.  As I said even though I went to European type schools I was also going to Indian school.

I met a fellow at a bar & grill in Seattle one evening.  He introduced himself to me as Swami Whatever.  I thought, Oh, Swami is it?  So you want to play your Swami game with me.  We talked through the night & I left him completely confused as I was examing all the confusion in his mind that also affects his heart, & beings.

A week or so later he walked into another bar & grill & saw me sitting at the bar.  He froze and pointed at me & warned the other people at the bar I would play with their minds when I wasn't playing at all with anything I was saying.  So everyone at the bar talked including the Swami who had only met me for the second time & he offered me a complete stranger who he didn't like the first time he met free use of his home in Arizona.

Which wa exactly where I was getting ready to journey, but my journey was to the Hopi Rez.  Didn't know a single Hopi person on the Rez, but I knew them all.  First night I had home because I stopped & helped a Hopi family who's car was on fire in the desert.  For some strange reason I tend to stop & help people in need. 

The young boys of the family thought they were being all sly & clever in testing me to see if I walked the circle.  So I played along letting them be all sly & clever in their ways to test me.  I love people who think they are all sly & clever & think they are going to test me in some way.  They are fun for me to play with here upon the earth.  The Swami thought he was going to be all sly & clever with me.  Regardless he's a good hearted person, though, a part of my story, a part of my life, & being as well as someone who actually desired to help me & that is fairly strange in this world where the only apparent reason for me being alive is so white folks can make money off me one way or another in their money money money mammon worshipping world will all their sales techniques they think are just so sly & clever.

My friends, Gail, regardless of color are people who play things straight with other people.  Then don't have the time for this world's games & crap.  They already know the mathematical probabilites of the human race saving the earth from their own destruction.  They already know history inside & out & not the fairy tale history they were presented with in their schools.  They all know human beings inside & out.  They tend not to judge people.  They tend not to be violent people.  They've all had their problems & they have all solved what problems were presented to them.  The ones who are white tend to think their own world is insane.

While I live in the context of your world at this time I am not of your world & I have never been of your world.  I am not of your world.  As I said if you got your Solar Community going then good for you, but you would all bore me wasting my time with mindless clueless things as people eating meat, & saving the earth when that is all controlled through your Government.

Even though I live in the context of your world I still live by the way of the Circle while your world lives by the way of the Pyramid.  Two entirely different symbols.  I still live by the Spiritual Princples of the Circle & by what is called the old way or original way.

Long before Europeans were torturing & putting people in prison for saying the earth was round the Native peoples looked at the sun & moon & perceived they too were on a circle.  Duh!

An Island in space, Gail.  A planet that just goes around in a circle motion going nowhere & getting nowhere as wall events through the construction of time lead to Jesus eventually setting up the Eternal Kingdom. 

So eat healthy & live healthy & maybe you'll live long enough to become senile.  Man, don't senility just look like all sorts of fun considering how senile people are treated in nursing homes as well as othe elderly people.

Myself, I am going to enjoy the things I enjoy & I enjoy every moment of life because as Jesus said some 2000 years ago, It's over.  It's finished.  It is done.  The work is complete.  I already know you people never know what your talking about but I know he wasn't kidding anyone about anything, you know...you know.

And there I was living upon a planet located somewhere in a rather large vast universe.  Upon the planet were billions of life forms including a life form that called themselves human beings.  They had made a real mess of things upon the earth throughout a thing they call time & that is going to get bigger.  Perhaps far bigger than I can even fathom at this time.  I am what is called a traveler.  A lot of the thing called music I write is traveling music.  I appeared to be a drifter passing through this town & that town playing music.

In each town I would read what they call their newspapers where the residents of the towns or cities I was in were fuming about all the problems of their town or city?  Myself, I was just passing through.  I stopped at many Indian Rez's for a visit.  I ended up in places so far remote in nature it was if this world didn't even exist which wasn't actually an unpleasent throught to me.

But hey, people are just people.  They only know what they know.  What I knew is everywhere I traveled in their world there was a thing called the cash register as human beings had invented a thing thay call money.  What I knew, and have told people, is that no matter your own personal problems, family problems, problems of your neighborhood, problems of your Nation or any Nation, or the world in general that without money you were screwed.

I mets lots of bored people in life who feared to live life.  They wanted an exciting life but they feared given up their boring dreadful safe secure life.  I met lots of white folks who wanted to save their Nation of America & would drone endlessly on about politics without really knowing how things had been set up, how things really worked, nor some very deep secret hidden agendas of the men they call the founders of their Nation.  These people loved to talk about how they were free, but their world looked like a slave world to me.  Slaves to money.  Slaves to their big boss man system.  Slaves to all their Institutions.  Slaves to their pyramid struture.  Most I met were most unhappy while I just happy as a lark having fun playing music & living in this town or city while just passing through as I am just passing through their world just playing, singing, dancing, & having fun.

In the large cities I knew all the homeless in the area I lived, and most in the downtown area.  I liked spending time with the homeless.  A better class of people than most who didn't bore me to death about how they hate their job, their boss, all their personal problems, all the problems of their town or city, or Nation that I had nothing to do with founding or building.

True most of the homeless were alcoholics or drug addicts or both.  True most of them had a disease called Aides.  I like drinking a little wine with them, but only took a couple small sips because that's what got them through their day.  There's a story about a begger called Lazarus who ended up in the Bosom of Abram that is symbolic of the Kingdom of God, and the rich man who ended up in the fire begging for a drink of water.

The story is a paradoxical story about the Pyramid that those on top of the Pyramid may not end up as well off in the long run as those at the bottom.  This also ties in the paradox that the high will be made low & the low will be made high.

I liked the street people because they were at the absolute bottom of the Pyramid structure of their world.  The street people didn't have much of any pretentious behavior about anything going on, but were particular unto themselves helping one another through the day & sharing what little they had with one another.  Much like the Native Tribes lived upon the earth at one time & still do to a degree but not like they used to live.  That way of life has been replaced by this world that even many white folk liken to an Insane Asylum.

What I know about every human being born into this they eventually end up a thing called dead one way or the other.  Many people become symbolically dead to this world.  I think I was born dead to this world.  Those who become symbolically dead to this world regain their life as they begin their journey of understanding Spiritual Principles the greats being a thing called love.  Just as there is a Spiritual Thing called Love there is also a thing called Spiritual Hate.  Spiritual Hate is not a personaly vengence type of hate of someone done me wrong so I have to get revenge some personal revenge on them.  The world of man at high levels have to create both internal & external enemies in order to keep people confused while they consolidate personal power & wealth for themselves.

On of their tricks is using the name of God with what is merely their own personal evil ambitions upon the earth.  Humans being fall for it though, and this is actually what is meant by using God's name in vain.  What judgment will be placed on them I don't know.  I do not have any politics, nor belong to any religion.  That's the way I just am.  I haven't had any shortage of people trying to hustle me into joining their religion or their politics or some type of Pyramid Organization, but they just don't know this old Indian.  I never join organized anything or anything that stinks of the Pyramid world.

Life is good.  Life is fun.  Pay your bills.  Stay out of trouble.  Don't cause other people trouble because they generally already have enough troubles as things are. 

by shadow dancer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1115 comments [121 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 3:02:13 PM

  (0+)

If you merely were asking people to think about the vegetarian option, then no one would be debating you. It is the notion that you can force people to take your opinion backed by the coercion of the government's guns that first drew my attention to your article. Since GWB has been in power, I have limited my meat intake drastically (only to fish) and only eat locally produced eggs in an arrangement I have with a local farmer. Nevertheless, I am desperately afraid of the nanny state that claims that my health is the community's business and then uses that justification to curb a host of freedoms.

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Saturday, Oct 11, 2008 at 5:52:22 PM

  (0+)

I applaud your personal decision to move towards a healthier, more compassionate diet, regardless of your motivation for doing so. But there is nothing suggested or implied in my article about forcing people to change their eating habits through government regulation, or otherwise. I am only pointing out that what people choose to eat does have a profound effect on others. And in the same way that it has become a widely accepted fact that second-hand smoke can have a devastating health effect on non-smokers who are subjected to inhaling it, eating animal foods has a devastating effect on the lives of other humans, animals, and the environment.

However, since you brought up government, I have no problem with taxing life-damaging products such as meat, dairy, and eggs, which cause illness and death in humans, unimaginable suffering for animals, waste of natural resources, and degradation of the environment. People who choose to consume these foods significantly increase their risk of developing life-threatening diseases such as heart disease, stroke, type II diabetes, and breast, prostate, and colon cancer. If consuming these products was merely self-destructive, it very likely would not be my business what you eat. But when you eat foods that knowingly will make you sick, the resulting out-of-control healthcare costs very much have an effect on whether or not people like me, who don't engage in this self-destructive lifestyle can afford healthcare. 

On the other hand, there is a role that governmental policy can play, particularly in issues of animal cruelty and public safety. The European Union, with its 50 member nations, has implemented international agreements that improve the lives of veal calves and ban the use of antibiotics and related growth-promoting hormones in farm animals. 

Here in the U.S., Congress is considering the passage of S 549 and HR 962, to curb overuse of antibiotics in animal agriculture that supports overcrowded and unsanitary conditions on factory farms and endangers public health. HR 1726, The Farm Animal Stewardship Purchasing Act, would require meat, dairy, and egg producers who supply prisons, school lunches, and other federal programs to comply with basic animal welfare requirements, thus somewhat improving the lives of confined farm animals.

In 2007, North Carolina enacted SB 1465, which bans the construction of new hog waste lagoons in the state. These massive waste ponds, which are some of the worst sources of pollution imaginable, are so toxic that if a worker should fall in one of them, it is foolish to try and save him. The law also launched programs to convert and modernize current lagoons to meet stricter standards to protect the environment. 

On November 4th, California voters will have the opportunity to vote in favor of Proposition 2, the Standards for Confining Farm Animals initiative, which will establish improved standards and more "living" space for hens, pigs, and calves in agricultural production.

While baby steps, legislative actions such as these represent forward momentum in the general public's understanding and appreciation of the ways in which our food choices impact human health, the environment, and the welfare of animals, and as such, are worthy of being applauded. They're hardly what you'd call curbing personal freedom.

Further, engaging in behavior that causes wanton destruction of wildlife and its habitat, causes significant human and animal suffering, and wastes or pollutes precious resources may be exercising personal freedom, but so are other acts of violence, yet we call these "crimes."

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:51:36 AM

  (0+)

You dance a fine line.  Most of what you write, I can whole-heartedly support.  Of course, putting profits and the destruction of the environment before the welfare of the planet and the majority of the people should be illegal and punishable under the criminal laws.  No reasonable person would argue otherwise. The same is true for the laws you support for the humane treatment of animals.  Humans who would treat animals like they are currently treated in corporate farming and scientific experimentation (especially for cosmetics) have something missing from their core humanity.

However, then you start in on nanny state questions, which is quite simply the road to fascism.  You want to raise taxes on the consumption of eggs and dairy products, which I'm sure is mere prelude to outright illegalization.  You justify your position on the grounds that eggs and dairy cause a host of illnesses that you in turn as a non-consumer of such items must contribute taxes to treating, as does the community at large.  But is it not more likely that it is the contaminants in the dairy and eggs as Loretta Schwartz-Nobel argues in her comprehensive analysis in Poisoned Nation, St. Martin's Press, 2007?  After all, the Western world, if not most of the world, has been consuming as a staple milk, cheese and eggs for thousands of years.  Is it not the method of production with which you disagree, and not the actual consumption? I know that if you tried to stop me from feeding milk to my children, you would have a hard time doing so. 

Additionally, this is a my scientist is better than your scientist situation.  For instance, I recently read a scientific paper that found that low cholesterol levels in the elderly are more indicative of prospective health problems than higher levels.  It seems that increasing cholesterol levels with age are a natural, normal and positive development in the human aging process.  While I certainly am not going to bet my life on this one study, the point is that science changes.  You want to write into law the science of the moment.  The only good law is law that is so well-established that we know in our hearts that it is good to follow and evil to break.  Anything else creates a situation where the breaking of the law becomes a political act of rebellion.

One of Hitler's first acts as a dictator was to ban smoking.  I'm sure you would have been dancing with delight hailing Mein Fueher on that wonderful day had you been there.  I can agree with you that animals must be treated humanely.  (By the way, do you where cosmetics or anti-perspirant, since the former notoriously tortures animals and the latter is notoriously carcinogenic?)  But when you stretch your political philosophy to include the proposition that you can dictate the lifestyle of all of the citizens of the nation based upon the fact we all contribute to the general fund for medical care, you have created a totalitarian state.  As I said before, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.  Your intentions are good, but you fail to look at the destination to which you would lead us.  

by W.M.L. (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 537 comments [52 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 15, 2008 at 2:47:40 PM

  (0+)

of 2006 states there is more than enough water for domestic, agricultural, and industrial use.  Scarcity of water in areas is due to political & institutional manipulations.  Go figure.   These are the facts as I read them if these facts are correct.  If these facts are correct then all your concerns about water are unfounded.

The Souix do not have a shortage of water they have water contaminated by urainium.  That stuff isn't good stuff no matter how you look at things, but such stuff was brought into reality. 

All it will be around the planet is another day of politics as usual, & business as usual as the planet orbits.  You have the right to contact your elected representative about any of your concerns.  Whether they acknowledge your concerns or ignore you is of their own choice.

The planet orbits.  The time continuim continues.  Liked a movie yesterday I watched called...Deja Vu...Denzel was a police guy hunting a bad guy.  In his investigation he found a machine had been invented that could fold back time to 4 days & some hours.

Then he found what he was viewing was actually real when he shined a laser light at the people he was watching 4 days ago saw the light when he shined it on the screen.

The folks operating the machine admitted to him that what he was watching was really happening & they had been able to fold back time.  The fellow explained to him something I talked with a friend about in the 90's.  That even if you look in the mirror & see your reflection although it seems instaineous you are actually looking at the past because your seeing the reflection of the light.

I discussed with my friend that we are light beings.  That everything we see enters our eyes at the speed of light even though it appears we are moving rather slowly. 

Prophecy is like folding back time when one hears of the words spoken long ago about events to happen in the thing called the future.  Prophecy is also like unfolding the future about events that have yet to occur.  Whether any human interpretation of any prophecy is 100 percent correct is unknown.

What is know is that evil exists.  If evil exists then good exists.  What is know is that lies exist.  If lies exist then the truth exists.  Except for the pure one all human beings have done a little good & a little evil but there are people in high places all through history who have done a whole lot of evil.

They can only do evil in this world, though.  Things I considered about John the Baptist is that it is a waste of time to confront worldly leaders lost in their delusions of granduer & meglamaniac.  Herod did fear, though, that John was a Prophet.  Herod feared God at leas that much.

Another thing I consider was Jesus saying John was the return of Elijah the Prophet even though John did not know he was the return of Elijah.  What I considered funny was God slipped his own son into this world & Elijah without even consulting either of the Herod's or the Caesar's of Rome.

 You'd think he would have consulted such high & mighty important people as they.  God always knows what the world of man is up to at all time but the world of man never knows everything God is up to at any given time.

U.N. states the water situation is just fine...just fine.

by shadow dancer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1115 comments [121 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 3:41:42 AM

  (0+)

Great Spirit, Great Spirit, my Grandfather, all over the earth the faces of living things are all alike. With tenderness have these come up out of the ground.

Look upon these faces of children without number and with children in their arms, that they may face the winds and walk the good road to the day of quiet.

This is my prayer; hear me!

The voice I have sent is weak, yet with earnestness I have sent it.

Hear me!

It is finished. Hetchetu aloh!

Now, my friend, let us smoke together so that there may be only good between us.  ~Black Elk

by Gail Davis (4 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 76 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 at 7:54:07 PM

  (0+)

88 I was traveling to various Rez's.  I was pulled over by the Texas State Police.  They wanted to search my car.  I said, fine.  The one who searched the front kind of jumped back with a copy of Black Elk's book the Prophecies of Black Elk in his hand.  The book's title may be slightly different.

The one searching the trunck asked about all the paper in my back pack that was in the trunk.  I said to him, it is a book I wrote. 

I've said to you that if you have a Solar Camp going for you then good.  What is it about that sentence you don't understand?  Not everyone lives in a Solar Camp.  Since I have been a traveler & adventurer I have never minded any place I have lived even if it is not on the two swift of things because it's a part of my adventure/journey through this world. 

 Regardless of a single thing written here it doesn't clean up the urainium in the Souix's river that alse seeps into their drinking water. 

I wrote the facts as presented to me through what I read that was stated by the U.N. about plenty of water except actual shortages are nothing more than the manipulations of Politics & Institutions.  The manipulations of politics.  Go figure.  I don't belong to any political party.  I don't vote.  I don't concern who is or who isn't elected.  I don't concern myself what they do or don't do when elected.  They all free choice, too.   I am not going to interfer with even a single free choice they make of themselves.

I am not going to interfer with a single free choice you make for yourself, but I am freely going to chose to never help anyone take away another person's freedom to chose.

Don't remember historically any Tribe actually chosing to be put on a Rez unless they were looking down the barrel of a gun.  The manipulations of politics.  Guess the thought back then that the Native people's participation in life was no longer needed.  Their crime they were camping out upon the earth.  They were in the way of progress.

113 years later after the last of the Tribes were rounded up this is the progress made.  Got money for the cash registers.  Good for you.  I got money for the cash registers at this time, too!  Good for me.  All I know is living with a Hopi family I got up one morning, got a pencil & paper, started drawing an ancient symbol.  The mother of the family saw me drawing the symbol.  She froze.  Then her arm shot straight out with finger pointing out as she said from her inner being, "That world out there is crazy!!!"

I didn't disagree with her.  She wasn't expecting me to draw the symbol, though.  Her story is a part of my story.  My story is a part of her story.  Her being is a part of my being.  My being is a part of her being.  I loved living with the Hopi family.  Loved being on their Rez.  Loved watching the sunsets & sunrises from the Mesa. 

Now it's 20 years later.  Time passed.  Time ticked off the clock to the completion of my journey through this world.  Traveled most of my adult life.  In the next city or town I arrived in by reading their newspapers the people were angry, & fuming about all the same problems people were angry about in the last town. 

Shurged my shoulders, pull out the guitar, start playing some music, write some music & lyrics.  Go out & play.  That's a part of what I do in my journey through this world, but only a part.   May even get around to putting in the tamborine shakes to the song I finished recording except for the tamborine shakes.  Maybe, maybe not.  If I do I do..if I don't I don't...

Tomorrow will be politics as usual...business as usual...the planet will orbit as usual...The river of the Souix will still be poisoned with urainium as usual.  The price they pay for being in the way of progress...

by shadow dancer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1115 comments [121 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 at 4:24:00 AM

  (0+)

may have been Black Elk Speaks as I searched through my memory banks of information I have stored in them.  That may be closer to the title of the book.  His journey is concluded in this world as every person's journey in this world is eventually concluded.

Just passing through.

by shadow dancer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1115 comments [121 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 at 12:08:55 PM

  (0+)