They haven't really known exactly how to deal with me.There have been many times when I agreed to appear on a TV program, for example & someone has been invited from the health insurance industry or a health insurance company.They simply won't appear on the same platform with me because they know what I'd say,the issues I would raise and the questions I would ask them.They'd be hard-pressed to answer in an honest way

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Welcome back for the conclusion of my interview with former health insurance executive, Wendell Potter. Let's circle back to the more personal for a bit, Wendell. When you decided to leave the health insurance business. What did your family think about all of this? You were making a very comfortable living for many years being a spokesman for the industry. You were good at it. And suddenly, you bolted and jumped to the other side.

Well, they were concerned, obviously. But they knew that I was not happy. This had been going on for some time. I was not feeling good about what I was doing, and it was taking a toll on me. I just simply was not pleasant to be around much of the time because I was trying to deal with it and not knowing exactly what to do. To walk away from a good paying job is not easy and I had to think about my family's welfare. But they had been supportive throughout this. I tried to prepare them for the worst, but they've been very supportive; the kids are very proud of what I'm doing. They've gone to some of the public appearances that I've made. They're always interested in seeing me on TV; it's been great. And I feel like they finally know what I'm doing and they're proud of what I'm doing.

You're right. That is great. So, over the last year or so, your life has changed in a major way. You're no longer employed by the health care industry and it's unlikely that you'll go back there in the near future. Did your former employers or the industry at large move to discredit you and your testimony? You made them look bad at an inconvenient moment, when the country is in the midst of a debate on health care reform.

You know it's been a dilemma for them. They haven't really known exactly how to deal with me. And I knew that they would have some difficulty because they know what I'm saying is true. It's been interesting because there have been many times when I agreed to appear on a TV program, for example, or a radio program, or in the public forum and someone has been invited from the health insurance industry or from a health insurance company but every single time they've said “I'm sorry. We can't find anyone. Everyone's just too busy.” They simply won't appear on the same platform with me because they know what I'd say, the issues I would raise and the questions I would ask them. They'd be hard-pressed to answer in an honest way and give an answer that would satisfy anyone who would be in the audience.

So, they can't attack me publicly because they knew that I served in my job very well. I left under amicable conditions. It was my decision to leave plus, they don't want to attack me because they don't want to keep the story going. I think that was their initial strategy: let's not say anything about Wendell and if we don't, maybe the media will lose interest in it. What I have found is that some of their allies in the blogosphere, some of the right-wing bloggers have occasionally attacked me but it's only been occasional; it hasn't been frequent.

I presume that you had friends and colleagues in the industry. What do they think about your actions?

I do have a lot of friends in the industry. Many who also have left for one reason or another, some have lost their jobs through layoffs and others just because they wanted to go on and do something else. They've all been very supportive, every single one has reached out to me. And there have been dozens of them who have been very supportive. Many of them have said “I wish I could do the same thing but I'm just not in a position to do it.” Some have provided me with additional insight and information that I've been able to use. It's been very rewarding. People who still work in the industry have not reached out to me. I'm not surprised because I don't think they would know exactly what to say and they would be concerned to have a conversation with me that anyone would find out about.

They might be threatened also by what you're saying because if they think about it too hard that could upset their comfortable life.

You are exactly right. I've thought about that many times and I know that they know that what I'm saying is true. And I know that many of them are undoubtedly having many of the same thoughts I had before I left. It's not easy. If you're bringing home money and it's buying you a comfortable existence, sometimes people just make that trade-off and can't make the move to have a clean conscience, or a clear conscience, which I thought was imperative for me to do.

Since you're no longer welcome nor do you desire to work for the health insurance industry, how are you putting food on the table these days?

The Center for Media and Democracy has been a terrific organization to work with and they've helped me put the food on the table. I make far, far less than I made when I worked for the industry. I work as a Senior Fellow on Health Care at the Center for Media and Democracy. I love the organization; they've done good work over many years exposing some of the things we're talking about now, the dirty tricks that corporations commit to try to manipulate public opinion or influence action on Capitol Hill and I'm very proud to be associated with them.

Does being a whistleblower make you a more or less promising candidate in the job market?

Well, it depends on, I guess, the job that I would be considered for or would look for. I don't consider myself a whistleblower, to tell you the truth. I don't mind people calling me that, but in the technical and legal sense, I'm not blowing the whistle on a former employer. I'm talking about industry practices, not specifically anything that CIGNA or Humana did that I was aware of when I was there. So in that sense, I'm trying to inform people.

As I said earlier, I was a former journalist and I see what I'm doing to a certain extent what journalists try to do - to enlighten, to inform, to disclose information that hasn't been disclosed otherwise. And I'm in a unique position to do that from having spent the time I've spent in the industry. So again, I don't mind if people call me a whistleblower. But I see myself, in a sense, just as a journalist. I blog, I speak, I give interviews, I talk with other journalists. So, I feel like I'm part of the journalistic community again.

I read earlier this week that a group from MoveOn has been traveling around the country with Dawn Smith, a woman with a brain tumor. Apparently, she needs surgery but CIGNA canceled her policy. At every stop along the way, people gathered to tell their own insurance horror stories, which MoveOn collects in pill containers. The trip began in Atlanta and has included stops to talk with members of Congress. Dawn and her entourage will end up today at CIGNA's office in Philadelphia today [Thursday] to try to meet with the company's CEO H. Edward Hanway. They plan to hand over to Hanway all the stories in pill containers they've collected along the way. Do you want to comment?

I don't really know much more about this story than what you read. Anyone who is trying to persuade an insurance company to reverse a denial, my heart goes out to them. Because I know that many people are in desperate straits when they're told that the insurance that they thought would be there for them is not. I wouldn't want to be in my old job at CIGNA right now to have to have to respond to this. And I wouldn't want to be the CEO to have to deal with this either. I don't know enough about the details but I do know that people are denied coverage for procedures they need on a daily basis by a lot of insurance companies. It's one of the things that needs to be fixed in our system and one of the things people have to be mindful of. When you hear allies of the insurance industry say “We don't want to have a government bureaucrat standing between patients and our doctors,” people need to stop and think that what we have now is maybe even worse - we have a corporate bureaucrat, a corporate executive in many cases, standing between a patient and his/her doctor. And often that corporate bureaucrat knows that he has to do his job to meet Wall Street's expectations.

A friend who is the business manager for a dental practice told me this story recently. At the annual continuing education classes one year, there was a session on how to file claims and get reimbursement. The presenter was a dentist who had worked in the insurance industry. He said that the claims that were still on the desks on Fridays ended up in the garbage can so that all work was completed on time. Patients were told when they called, “We have no record of your claim.” This was standard operating procedure to stall legitimate claims. Patients who never followed up, of course, never received any payment, so this also saved the insurance company considerable potential payouts.

You know, I hadn't heard that. I do know that there is incredible pressure within companies to manage medical expenses. One of the ways they do that is to ratchet down on claims payments. So there absolutely are incentives to deny claims and to delay paying claims because that means there's more money available for profits.

Are you at all fearful that your actions could jeopardize your own health insurance coverage?

You know, I've thought about that. I don't think so. I now have a pretty high public profile. And I don't know that my insurance company would take that kind of action because I'd write about it, and tell about it. It could happen, you never know. Like everybody else, I hope I don't lose my insurance. But on the other hand, there have been times in the past when I've had to try to get insurance in the individual market so I know the difficulties that gives. I'm an older person now with medical history. I know it sure would be hard for me to get a medical policy in the individual market today.

Is it safe to say that you are more at peace with yourself now that you've broken with the health care industry?

Absolutely I'm more at peace with myself and I'm much more proud of what I'm doing. And when I'm talking, when I'm answering questions from reporters, I feel a freedom I never felt before because I know I'm saying things that are true and hopefully helpful and that helps me sleep a lot better at night.

That's worth a lot. Is there anything you'd like to add, Wendell?

One thing is to encourage advocates of reform to remain advocates. Right now, it's really important that people take action. The next few weeks will be critically important; they're critically important for the future of this country, some of the most important weeks that we'll have in our history. Because we are on the verge of doing something that no Congress, no president has been able to achieve, which is at least some kind of meaningful health care reform. It may not be all that we all hope it will be but we should all keep working for what is best.

But over the next few weeks, I hope that people will pick up the phone and call their members of Congress. I would call the district offices, I would call the staff people that work in the district offices rather than in Washington. I would also write letters, I'd pick up pen and piece of paper and write a letter. And I would send email and I'd encourage my friends to do that. Members of Congress need to know that there are a lot of people who expect them to do the right thing. This is necessary to counter the influence of the lobbyists. So, that's what I'd like to end on. People need to keep the faith and keep working hard.

Good luck to you, Wendell. It's been a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you for making sure that we have the inside scoop on health insurance industry practices at this critical juncture. You were definitely in the right place at the right time.

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Part one of my interview with Wendell

Part two of my interview with Wendell

Remote Area Medical website including 60 Minutes segment

Wendell Potter's blog at Center for Media and Democracy

Health Care for America Now website

Authors Website: http://www.opednews.com/author/author79.html

Authors Bio:

Joan Brunwasser is a co-founder of Citizens for Election Reform (CER) which since 2005 existed for the sole purpose of raising the public awareness of the critical need for election reform. Our goal: to restore fair, accurate, transparent, secure elections where votes are cast in private and counted in public. Because the problems with electronic (computerized) voting systems include a lack of transparency and the ability to accurately check and authenticate the vote cast, these systems can alter election results and therefore are simply antithetical to democratic principles and functioning.



Since the pivotal 2004 Presidential election, Joan has come to see the connection between a broken election system, a dysfunctional, corporate media and a total lack of campaign finance reform. This has led her to enlarge the parameters of her writing to include interviews with whistle-blowers and articulate others who give a view quite different from that presented by the mainstream media. She also turns the spotlight on activists and ordinary folks who are striving to make a difference, to clean up and improve their corner of the world. By focusing on these intrepid individuals, she gives hope and inspiration to those who might otherwise be turned off and alienated. She also interviews people in the arts in all their variations - authors, journalists, filmmakers, actors, playwrights, and artists. Why? The bottom line: without art and inspiration, we lose one of the best parts of ourselves. And we're all in this together. If Joan can keep even one of her fellow citizens going another day, she considers her job well done.


When Joan hit one million page views, OEN Managing Editor, Meryl Ann Butler interviewed her, turning interviewer briefly into interviewee. Read the interview here.

While the news is often quite depressing, Joan nevertheless strives to maintain her mantra: "Grab life now in an exuberant embrace!"


Joan has been Election Integrity Editor for OpEdNews since December, 2005. Her articles also appear at Huffington Post, RepublicMedia.TV and Scoop.co.nz.