An interview with Fred Karger from DumpRickWarren.com and then additional commentary involving Rick Warren and evangelicals in America.

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Two parts: one, an interview with Fred Karger from DumpRickWarren.com and two, additional commentary on Rick Warren from myself.

Californians Against Hate Start DumpRickWarren.com

Over the weekend, Fred Karger started DumpRickWarren.com to show that Rick Warren’s inclusion in the Inauguration is antithetical or at odds with Obama’s message of “unity and coming together.”

Karger described the situation:

The wounds are still raw from the election and the fact that he was such a prominent supporter of Prop 8. The president-elect and the members of Congress sees how angry the gay community is and we want to make sure our voices are heard and the people who were leading the effort against us are treated a little more carefully than they were before because I think this is not the message of unity and coming together that this president is hoping for.

In July, Karger started CaliforniansAgainstHate.com. The site was used to “draw attention to the major donors to the Prop 8 campaign.” Karger’s site followed the big donors to the Yes on 8 campaign by using the report from the Secretary of State’s office and posted it on the website calling the list the “dishonor roll.”

Other citizen groups have responded to Obama’s decision to include Rick Warren.

Human Rights Campaign President Joe Solmonese, called the invitation a “genuine blow” to the GLBT community and said “by inviting Rick Warren to your Inauguration, you have tarnished the view that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans have a place at your table.”

Equality California Executive Director, Geoff Kors said recently, “I have decided to decline the invitation to attend the inauguration as I cannot be part of a celebration that highlights and gives voice to someone who advocated repealing rights from me and millions of other Californians.

People for the American Way’s Kathryn Kolbert issued a statement on the invitation:

It is a grave disappointment to learn that pastor Rick Warren will give the invocation at the inauguration of Barack Obama.

Pastor Warren, while enjoying a reputation as a moderate based on his affable personality and his church's engagement on issues like AIDS in Africa, has said that the real difference between James Dobson and himself is one of tone rather than substance. He has recently compared marriage by loving and committed same-sex couples to incest and pedophilia. He has repeated the Religious Right's big lie that supporters of equality for gay Americans are out to silence pastors. He has called Christians who advance a social gospel Marxists. He is adamantly opposed to women having a legal right to choose an abortion.

I'm sure that Warren's supporters will portray his selection as an appeal to unity by a president who is committed to reaching across traditional divides. Others may explain it as a response to Warren inviting then-Senator Obama to speak on AIDS and candidate Obama to appear at a forum, both at his church. But the sad truth is that this decision further elevates someone who has in recent weeks actively promoted legalized discrimination and denigrated the lives and relationships of millions of Americans.

Rick Warren gets plenty of attention through his books and media appearances. He doesn't need or deserve this position of honor. There is no shortage of religious leaders who reflect the values on which President-elect Obama campaigned and who are working to advance the common good.

As Karger said, Rick Warren “came out in support of Prop 8. And, he is “part of that whole group of Christian evangelical leaders like James Dobson who came out in support of Prop 8.”

To many who are convinced that there is a difference between Dobson and Warren, Karger assertively said, “They’re made from the same cloth. They’re both pretty similar guys.”

Karger added, “They use the gay community to make money and to substantiate their power. [They’re] both bad apples.”

Like other fair-minded Americans, Karger was “struck by [Warren’s] comment in the Wall Street Journal” which “compared gay people to those that commit incest, pedophilia, and then of course his great allies, polygamy, the Mormons.” (Karger was surprised Warren called out polygamists because Mormons worked closely with him to pass Prop 8.)

Most who are angry would be satisfied with any pastor other than Rick Warren. (For example, why not invite Jim Wallis?) The issue, to people like Karger, is not that an invocation will take place during the Inauguration but that “such a polarizing individual” is being allowed to give it.

When asked if the LGBT community should heed the wisdom of liberals and progressives in this country and “chill out about Rick Warren” and help the country unite so that the economy and other problems can be attended to, Karger stated:

In a civil rights battle---and we are still in our infancy, this is a relatively new battle---we never rest. This is our cause. This is for equal rights. This is to make it easier for future generations of young people who are discovering their sexual orientation and feeling different and trying to make it easier for them. That’s what this battle about. The equality portion is what the fight is. Gay marriage is just one of the symptoms of that. The big battle is over equality and civil rights and those 1,048 marriage laws.

Karger further described how younger people find it difficult to let their church, their friends, and their family know they are gay or lesbian and this struggle is about working to make it better” for them and “there’s nothing that will delay that or forestall that.”

A Response to Calls Asking People to Chill Out About Warren

I’m not even gay. I am a straight, white American male just getting into life. But, I refuse to acquiesce or give in to those who attempt to convince me of the potential benefits of Rick Warren.

Benefits may exist, but the cons far outweigh the benefits. And really, what many progressive-minded people seem to be arguing is that if there are benefits, forget the cons! They won’t matter because benefits exist!

Think of this within the context of civil rights. Also, think of this within the context of the idea Evangelicals have which is that earth should be “God’s kingdom” and that biblical truth reigns supreme.

Think of how Evangelicals like Rick Warren seek to control every aspect of human life and more recently, seek to control how Americans handle the physical aspect of their marriage---sex.

You may have seen in the news this year that a pastor issued a sex challenge for his congregation. (Actually, two instances were reported in the press---one involving a Florida pastor challenging his congregation to have sex for 30 days and one using a toilet to convey the idea that toilet water is like lust. The one involving the toilet and Ed Young, which was a 7-day challenge, is the sex challenge I am referring to.)

Pastor Ed Young declared that the church had “allowed culture to hijack sex.” Christians, Young said, are “the real sexperts.” Christians understand that “God wants us to do it his way.” Young wanted churches to reclaim sex because he believed it can strengthen marriages.

Young said the goal of the challenge was to get the “church to talk about sex, because, after all, God is the one who invented sex, and he tells us to do it, but he says to do it in marriage.”

Young also declared, “God says sex should be between a married man and a woman," Young says. "I think it's one of the greatest things you can do for your kids because so goes the marriage, so goes the family.

Religion’s anti-gay activism that goes back to conservative singer Anita Bryant taking on the movement being ignited by Harvey Milk is and has always been about religion being able to control what is and is not done in the bedroom between two (or more) human beings.

If you have any doubts on the idea that this issue is about sexual behavior and not gay marriage, check out this excerpt from ChristianAnswers.net:

Sex (and yes, sex was God’s idea) is no different. God created it, and therefore it is reasonable to expect that it is good. But when man distorts it by ignoring God's specific standards, it becomes harmful and destructive. So the question we've asked 'why save sex for marriage' is really a question of understanding God's purpose and design for sex. We can choose to do things God's way, and experience the beauty of His plan, or we can choose to do things our way, and experience harm and destruction (Proverbs 16:25).

Allowing gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgenders to do things “our way” is wrong because religious people, especially those like Rick Warren, believe we must do it “God’s way.” (Keep your eyes opened for the release of Cosmo’s 123 Ways to Do It God’s Way and the DVD release of Hustler’s “Be Fruitful and Multiply”.)

ChristiansAnswers.net further explains:

Gay activists claim that homosexual activity is nobody's business other than those involved in the relationship. However, this is not true. God, our Designer and Creator, has authority over all aspects of our lives. He makes the rules, and He quite specifically forbids homosexual behavior.

“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination” (Leviticus 18:22; see also Leviticus 20:13).

Disobedience of such a clear command indicates rejection of God's authority.

And we cannot have that. There will be no rejecting God’s authority! Not on this Earth. And so, in response to the widespread trend in American culture to be ignorant of God and rejecting of Him, Warren has put together and given a sermon for “affair-proofing your marriage.”

Pastor Warren’s sermon may take you back to the days of high school when your gym teachers engaged in sex education and taught you about the birds and the bees. But, you will quickly see that Pastor Warren goes beyond that and gives humanity the self-help it needs to keep relationships not just holy but healthy.

Warren opens his sermon by stating:

“God is no kill-joy. God invented sex. But like everything it must be controlled. He wants us to use it not abuse it. All of God's gifts have limitations on them. God has given us the gift of water. You can't live without water. But too much of it and you'll drown. God has given us fire. Fire can either warm you or burn you. It's how you handle it.”

You see, sex can drown you and burn you. Like the wind, it can blow. And like the earth, it can rock.

When describing how to manage the mind, Warren says later in the sermon:

“What do Christians do with their fantasies? Deny them? Repress them? I think Scripture tells us we are to turn them into the positive. If you are married, turn that sexual energy into your marriage. If love is the motivating force behind those fantasies the sky's the limit and with God's blessing. If you're single you need to turn your sex drive to creative dynamic ways to serve God and other people. Don't repress your sexual drive, don't release it illegitimately, but rechannel it in a way that pleases God.”

Now, I don’t know about you. But, from what I know, I think the thought of God watching over me while in the act would actually effect my sexual performance negatively. I also don’t know if the wife would want thoughts of lust and yearning to translate into hours of Kama Sutra consultation.

And as a single male, exactly what kind of service to God or other people do you want me to give as a way to control my sex drive? Should I start a soup kitchen? Work at a summer camp? Go door-to-door preaching the word of God?

What if people ask me where I get my vibrant energy? Should I tell them I am doing this because of my drive for sex? And how might that make an omniscient and omnipotent God feel? Would I be sinning?

People like Warren view the erosion of culture that Pastor Young alluded to as being connected with the rise in acceptance of same sex marriage and would describe both as part of a war being waged on God or religion.

“In today's world where there are permissive values that basically says anything goes, and an entertainment organization obsessed with sex, and sex is used to sale everything from cars to bananas and there are more women in the work place, and there is birth control and constant bombardment by the media, you don't stand much of a change of remaining pure unless you establish some guidelines for your life.”

I can’t remember the last time that I saw a commercial for a banana. But, when considering the fact that sex sells, I can only imagine what a commercial for bananas might be like. Perhaps, Rick Warren was scarred as a child when he saw the Sophia Loren Chiquita commercial while watching “Father Knows Best.”

The bottom line for Rick Warren is:

God thought up sex. It's His idea. In marriage it is wonderful and fantastic and a beautiful expression of Christ's love for the church, the bible says. But used improperly it destroys marriages, damages families and lives, damages self esteem, creates misery and guilt, shame and regret, depression, not to mention all the kinds of communicable diseases that are out there today. God says I've established these rules for your benefit. You don't play by the rules, you get hurt. Nothing is more devastating than to feel you were used by somebody the dumped and rejected. God's way is the best way and you can get back on tract. You open your life to Jesus Christ and say, "Jesus Christ, come in and be the manager of my life and help me manage this sex drive that You gave me in the first place." You ask for forgiveness for past mistakes and sins and receive that forgiveness and then you can forgive yourself. Then you make a commitment to be morally pure the rest of your life forward. That means you're going to have sex only to the person you're married to.

Who wouldn’t have wanted to be at Saddleback church when members of Warren’s megachurch began to randomly declare to Jesus Christ, “Come in and be my manager of my life and help me manage this sex drive!” One can only imagine orgasmic sounds emanating from the crowd as they cleansed their souls of lust and let God penetrate them so their sexual behavior could be controlled.” You would have to feel sorry for the little teenage boys present for this who may have experienced their first erection and wondered if this was the work of the devil or God taking control.

If any of you have seen Jesus Camp, you would know that something like this probably took place. The congregation probably rose up out of the pews to connect with God.

“God says I've given you a drive called sex. Properly controlled and expressed within a marriage it's beautiful and fantastic. But outside of marriage it is destructive and detrimental to your health as a human being --emotionally, spiritually, in every way.”

Warren’s “wisdom” on life makes it so that gay and lesbian lifestyle will always be viewed as destructive and detrimental.

If you can’t marry, according to Pastor Warren, you can never fully appreciate the sex drive God gave you and know it as something that is beautiful and fantastic.

“Regardless of your past, regardless of your failures say today, [you must] make a commitment to maintain God's standards. That means you agree with God about what He says about sex. God's standards have never, never changed. The Bible says that sex is for marriage only -- not before marriage, not outside of marriage.”

The religious or evangelical community that Pastor Warren is a part of recognizes the GLBT community by their passion and openness for sex. They know it will lead to pedophilia, incest, polygamy, and “man on dog” sex. And because these are outside of God’s standards for “marriage”, the fight against homosexuality must never let up or else “God’s kingdom” can never truly be created.

Phrases like the following are not uttered by people who will give in to gays and lesbians fighting for equal rights, and these phrases are not ones that supporters of them will condone without being wholly supportive of their darkest intentions.

"Not only is homosexuality a sin, but anyone who supports fags is just as guilty as they are. You are both worthy of death." – Fred Phelps

“"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." – Jerry Falwell

"Homosexuals are weak, morally sick wretches." – Jesse Helms

"[Homosexuals] want to come into churches and disrupt church services and throw blood all around and try to give people AIDS and spit in the face of ministers." – Pat Robertson

And let’s not forget the most recent quote from Pastor Rick Warren. This phrase was uttered as a defense of his attitude towards gays and lesbians.

Just because I like pizza it doesn’t mean I should marry it…Biologically, I am predisposed to enjoy the immaculate melding of mozzarella cheese, red sauce and thick crust baked to tasty perfection.

But that doesn’t mean I should enter into a lifelong commitment with Sicilian or plain, nor bed it down, nor bring children into the world and have them have to explain to their classmates why their mom’s crust is not a crisp as it once was. Does any child deserve to have their friends tossing Monday 2 for 1 coupons in his face? Not in my world they don’t. Yet, to say that I am against pizza-eaters or gays is absurd. Our Saddleback Church offer more weight-watchers meetings to overeaters than any other evangelical megachurch on the west coast.

Religion appears to be focused right now on fighting against homosexuality and preserving the sanctity of marriage, but let’s not forget that these religious evangelicals are behind anti-women and anti-choice campaigns that concern abortion, stem cell research, and euthanasia.

To Barack Obama and others who seek to make people “okay” with Obama’s decision, you may not understand what it is like to be considered less than human. You may not know what it’s like to be compared to, well, now one can say pizza.

Just because one may think Warren is receiving an equal amount of excoriation for agreeing to participate in Obama’s Inauguration does not mean that all is okay. What Obama is doing involves inviting a bigot to be part of a historic moment in this country’s nation. It sends a message that his views and opinions are reasonable or worth considering.

Obama’s decision helps Rick Warren further reinvent the evangelical movement in America, strengthens it, and makes the movement capable of making an impact in this so-called new era of hope and change.

To gays and lesbians and fair-minded people in this country, such an invitation against civil rights is clearly tone-deaf. And, to all those willing to suggest gays and lesbians and fair-minded people should lay off and calm down so a moment in history or a chance at hope and change can be preserved, I say, again, you don’t know what it’s like to be considered less than human or be compared to pizza.

And I close by saying, would you have told African-Americans or women to stop fighting for rights? No, and gays and lesbians should not and will not stop fighting until they get the rights they deserve.

Authors Bio:
Kevin Gosztola is managing editor of Shadowproof Press. He also produces and co-hosts the weekly podcast, "Unauthorized Disclosure." He was an editor for OpEdNews.com