The seventh installment in a series on the Tuesday night debate with the Democratic candidates.

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Williams: On that note, Tim Russert's going to take us into a segment on Social Security.

Russert: Senator Clinton, I want to clear something up which goes to the issue of credibility. You were asked at the AARP debate whether or not you would consider taxing, lifting the cap from $97,500, taxing that, raising more money for Social Security. You said, quote, "It's a no." I asked you the same question in New Hampshire, and you said "no."

Then you went to Iowa and you went up to Tod Bowman, a teacher, and had a conversation with him saying, "I would consider lifting the cap perhaps above $200,000." You were overheard by an Associated Press reporter saying that.

Why do you have one public position and one private position?

Clinton: Well, Tim, I don't. I have said consistently that my plan for Social Security is fiscal responsibility first, then to deal with any long-term challenges which I agree are ones that we are going to have to address.

We would have a bipartisan commission. In the context of that, I think all of these would be considered. But, personally, I do not want to balance Social Security on the backs of our seniors and middle-class families. That's why I put fiscal responsibility first, because we have to change the Bush tax cuts, which I am committed to doing.

We have to move back toward a more fair and progressive tax system, and begin once again to move toward a balanced budget with a surplus. You know, part of the idea in the '90s was not just so Bill would have a check mark next to his name in history, but so that we would have the resources to deal with a lot of these entitlement problems.

George Bush understood that. The Republicans understood that. They wanted to decimate that balanced budget and a surplus because they knew that that would give them a free hand to try to privatize Social Security.

I am not going to be repeating Republican talking points. So when somebody asks me, would something like this be considered, well, anything could be considered when we get to a bipartisan commission. But personally, I am not going to be advocating any specific fix until I am seriously approaching fiscal responsibility.

Isn’t fiscal responsibility also a way of dealing with long term challenges? What do you mean “change the Bush tax cuts”? Shouldn’t we be repealing them? Warren Buffett, one of the richest men in the world, complains that the tax system is far from progressive. It’s so bad a rich man is upset with our immoral tax system.

I cannot argue with the fact that Bush had plans to strip money from entitlement programs and privatize Social Security. But I can cite this article by Robin Blackburn titled, “How Monica Lewinsky Saves Social Security.” As long as you are citing Bill in your debate responses, I’m going to assume that your politics aren’t that far off from his. So, unless someone shows me that you were against Bill Clinton’s moves to privatize Social Security during his presidency, well, you’re just as bad as those Republicans stripping Americans of a future with a sound Social Security system.

I mean, it could be your specific fix is privatizing Social Security?

Russert: But you did raise it as a possibility with Tod Bowman?

Clinton: Well, but everybody knows what the possibilities are, Tim. Everybody knows that. But I do not advocate it. I do not support it. I have laid out what I do believe, and I am going to continue to emphasize that.

I think, for us to act like Social Security is in crisis is a Republican trap. We're playing on the Republican field. And I don't intend to do that.

After this administration though, it is in crisis. Isn’t it?

Russert: You call it a Republican talking point. Georgetown University, February 9, 1998: "We are in a -- heading to a looming fiscal crisis in Social Security. If nothing is done, it will require a huge tax increase in the payroll tax or a 25 percent in Social Security benefits," Bill Clinton, 1998.

That's recent history. Only two years to go in his term. Is that a Republican talking point?

Clinton: No, but what he did was to move us toward a balanced budget and a surplus. And, if you go back and you look at the numbers, they really took off starting in '98, '99, 2000, 2001.

And that would have given a president who actually believed in Social Security -- which George Bush does not -- the resources and the options to make decisions, but not the kind of draconian decisions, and certainly not the move toward privatization, which is what the Republicans have been advocating for as long as I can remember.

And as noted above, your husband, Bill, a hero among those in the Democratic Party, was going to privatize Social Security.

Russert: Senator Obama, you said in May, that, quote, "Everything is on the table when it comes to Social Security." You now have an ad up in Iowa which says that any benefit cuts are off and raising the retirement age are off.

Why have you changed your mind?

Obama: Well, what I say is that that is not my plan.

So, everything is not on the table. And you are shifting around like Hillary is shifting around on Iran.

Now, I just want to go back to what Senator Clinton said, because I think it's important for us not to engage in business as usual on Social Security and talk straight.

Everybody on this stage is against privatization and we all fought against it -- everybody. I absolutely agree that Social Security is not in crisis; it is a fundamentally sound system, but it does have a problem, long-term.

Even if we deal with the issue of fiscal responsibility, the trust fund is no longer being rated -- that's something that all of us are in favor of.

We've got 78 million baby boomers who are going to be retiring over the next couple of decades. That means more retirees, fewer workers to support those retirees.

It is common sense that we are going to have to do something about it. That is not a Republican talking point. And if we don't deal with it now, it will get harder to deal with later.

So what I've said, and I know some others on this stage have said, is that among the options that are available, the best one is to lift the cap on the payroll tax, potentially exempting folks in the middle -- middle-class folks -- but making sure that the wealthy are paying more of their fair share -- a little bit more.

Now, it is important, if we are going to lead this country, to be clear to the American people about what our intentions are. And this is part of the politics that we have been playing, which is to try to muddle through, give convoluted answers. Ultimately, we then don't have a mandate and we can't bring about change, in part because we're afraid to give Republicans talking points.

I'm not fearful, just as Joe isn't, to have a debate about this with Rudy Giuliani because we've got the facts on our side. But we've got to be clear about those facts and not pretend that those facts don't exist.

Look, Barack, I don’t think anyone here is afraid of Rudy Giuliani. So, I think we could potentially short circuit that. But, we do have to keep in mind that you are receiving donations from some really rich people. And do you really expect us to believe that you will turn around and raise taxes on them?

Russert: But when asked by The New York Times whether Senator Clinton has been truthful, you said no.

Obama: What I said is that she has not been truthful and clear about this point that I just made, which is we can talk about fiscal responsibility and all of us agree with that. All of us oppose privatization.

But even after we deal with those issues, we are still going to have an actuarial gap that has to be dealt with. It is not going to vanish and if we have a moral responsibility to the next generation to make sure that Social Security is there, the most successful program to lift seniors out of poverty that we've ever devised, then we need to start acting now and having a serious conversation about it.

Conversations, avoid “the politics that we have been playing, which is to try to muddle through, give convoluted answers”, have clear intentions---These are all great ways to handle government. But do you bring any ideas with substance to the table? I mean, do you have the ability to develop any sort of policy for anything?

You talk a good game but can you really play the game you talk about and better the lives of Americans at the same time?

Clinton: Tim, I don't see any difference here. You know, my view is we go towards fiscal responsibility, which is hard. It's not going to be easy inheriting what we're going to inherit from Bush and the Republicans.

And there are some long-term challenges. I have no disagreement with that.

But I think the best way to handle them is within the context of a bipartisan commission. That's what worked in 1983 when Social Security was on the ropes. Our colleagues in the Senate had a hearing today talking about how they could move toward a bipartisan commission.

And, once there's a bipartisan commission, then we can see what we need to do. But I don't want these decisions to be made in a vacuum. I want it to be made in the face of moving back toward fiscal responsibility, because that will influence which choices are actually better.

And I certainly don't want to impose a trillion-dollar tax increase on middle-class families, or any kind of additional burdens on our seniors.

No, certainly not. But there is a way around these burdens. Privatize the system. Allow seniors to take from a depleted system and start convincing the others to participate in a privatized system.

Look, as long as you refuse to talk about any other options and just talk about how Republicans wish to privatize Social Security, it will seem fishy to me. It will be like closet homosexuals in the Republican Party talking about how bad gays are.

Williams: Senator Obama, we're going to transfer into a new area here. A question specifically for you because you're in a rather unique position. It's about religion and misinformation. Governor Romney misspoke twice on the same day, confusing your name with that of Osama bin Laden.

Your party is fond of talking about a potential swiftboating. Are you fearful of what happened to John McCain, for example, in South Carolina a few years back; confusion on the basis of things like names and religion?

What an awful question.

Obama: No, because I have confidence in the American people.

And I don't pay much attention to what Mitt Romney has to say -- at least what he says this week. It may be different next week.

But there is no doubt that my background is not typical of a presidential candidate. I think everybody understands that. But that's part of what is so powerful about America, is that it gives all of us the opportunity -- a woman, a Latino, myself -- the opportunity to run.

And, listen, when I was running for the United States Senate everybody said nobody's going to vote for a black guy named Barack Obama; they can't even pronounce it. And we ended up winning by 20 points in the primary and 30 points in the general election.

The way to respond to swiftboating is to respond forcefully, rapidly and truthfully. And I have absolute confidence in the American people's capacity to absorb the truth, as long as we are forceful in that presentation.

And we are seeing it. As we travel all across the country, we have received enormous support, in states where, frankly, there aren't a lot of African-Americans, and there aren't a lot of Obamas.

You know...people have a tough time pronouncing Kucinich too.

Also, it’s not necessarily a good thing that you are popular in states where there aren’t a lot of African-Americans or a lot of “Obamas.” I happen to think that may weaken your strength and ability to heal America. The audacity of hope is necessary for many African-Americans right now as you refuse to take up certain issues they wish you would pay attention to.

(Laughter)

Williams: Let's take this opportunity to fit in what will be the second of three breaks tonight.

We'll be back with more from the campus of Drexel University in Philadelphia right after this.

(Commercial break)

 
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Authors Bio:
Kevin Gosztola is managing editor of Shadowproof Press. He also produces and co-hosts the weekly podcast, "Unauthorized Disclosure." He was an editor for OpEdNews.com