Thanks to Don Caldarazzo for doing the transcript.
Daniel Quinn's book, Ishmael, about a telepathic gorilla, won a Ted Turner award for book with a hopeful vision of the future. It's become a bestseller translated into many languages and I recommend it as must reading if you've never read it. This portion of the interview discusses the book AND his thoughts on civilization, beyond civilization, the Sixth Extinction and the disaster that hierarchy is...
Rob Kall: This success doesn't seem like such a good thing
Daniel Quinn: (laughs)
Rob Kall: - to most of the people.
Daniel Quinn: Yeah, that's probably true, but what I'm trying to direct them to is: to look at the foundations instead of picking at individual things. Saying, "We've got to stop being dependent on petroleum. We've got to develop alternative renewable resources for power. We've got to get rid of gasoline powered automobiles. We've got to stop polluting the air, the greenhouse gases. We've got to stop doing the things that are causing climate change." These things, these particulars - rather than to look at the underlying organization - that says, "This is the way. It may be terrible, but this is the way people were meant to live. There is no other way. There is nothing beyond civilization."
Rob Kall: Can I read the final two paragraphs that you sent me on this?
Daniel Quinn: Yeah.