Send a Tweet
Most Popular Choices
Poll Analyses
Share on Facebook 14 Share on Twitter Printer Friendly Page More Sharing
Exclusive to OpEdNews:
Life Arts    H2'ed 10/31/20

Truth Telling Is Not Anti-Semitic or Holocaust Denial: A Personal Reflection

Follow Me on Twitter     Message Mike Rivage-Seul
Become a Fan
  (51 fans)


(Image by encyclopedia.ushmm.org)   Details   DMCA

Rob Kall, the editor in chief of OpEdNews (OEN) recently published a provocative edition of a weekly Zoom call among editors and contributors to his website. It was provocative because the remarks of one of the participants about fascism and the Great Holocaust caused several Jewish attendees to take offense and vehemently accuse him of holocaust denial and anti-Semitism.

Basically, the offending remarks identified Germany's wealthy Jewish 1% as providing Hitler's fascism with pretext for his genocide of the other 99%. (I've summarized what was actually said here.) The discussion that ensued led Rob to wisely recommend caution in approaching such sensitive topics.

Rob's recommendation reminded me of a sobering experience I had years ago in Mexico. It put me in the position of the OEN provocateur. It also caused me to reflect on the role of self-criticism that is part and parcel of the Judeo-Christian tradition and of critical thinking in general.

My Report from Israel

The experience I'm referring to came when I was invited to give a "Report from Israel" after a three-week study tour of Israel, Jordan, and Egypt sponsored by Berea College, where I taught in the Philosophy and Religion Department for 40 years. The invitation came from the Unitarian Universalist (U.U.) congregation of San Miguel de Allende.

My report was heavily influenced not only by our time spent in the Palestinian community, but by a separate visit my wife, Peggy, and I made to the Sabeel Ecumenical Center for liberation theology in Jerusalem. Scholars there connected the Palestinians' situation with colonialism. They pointed out that ever-expanding Jewish settlements stood in blatant contravention of UN Resolution 242. It was a continuation of the European colonial system that had supposedly been abolished following World War II. In Israel-Palestine, Jewish occupation represented the familiar European settler pattern repeated throughout the former colonies. It had (Zionist) settlers from Germany, Russia, Poland, Hungary, Rumania, and elsewhere arriving unexpectedly in lands belonging for millennia to poor unsuspecting Palestinian peasants, and then confiscating their homes, fields and resources.

With all of that fresh on my mind, the thesis of my U.U. presentation was clear and unambiguous. "The real terrorists in Israel," I said, "are the Zionists who run the country." I didn't consider my basically historical argument particularly original or shocking. The Sabeel Center and Noam Chomsky had been making it for years.

What I didn't realize was that almost everyone in my audience was Jewish. (I didn't even know about San Miguel's large Jewish population - mostly "snowbirds" from New York City.) Nonetheless, my remarks that Sunday stimulated an engrossing extended discussion. Everyone was respectful, and the enthusiastic conversation even spilled over beyond the allotted time.

The trouble started after the head of San Miguel's Center for Global Justice (CGJ) where Peggy and I were working at the time invited me to publish my talk as an article in San Miguel's weekly English newspaper, Atención.

I'll never forget what followed; it was very similar to what occurred during Rob's OEN Zoom call. All hell broke loose:

  • A barrage of angry letters flooded the Atención pages for the next two weeks and more.
  • As a result, Atención threatened to cancel the column space set aside for the CGJ each week.
  • San Miguel's Bibliotheca (library) talked about ending the CGJ's access to meeting rooms there.
  • My article was removed from Atención's archives.
  • Someone from the AIPAC(American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee) phoned my provost at Berea College reporting me for my inflammatory article, asking whether I really taught there and if my credentials were genuine.
  • The CGJ's leadership was forced to do some back-pedaling distancing itself from me and my remarks.
  • They lit candles of reconciliation at a subsequent U.U. meeting begging forgiveness from the community and absolution for that mad man from Berea.
  • The guiding assumption in all of this was that my argument was patently false.

In other words, an article that should have stimulated critical thinking and discussion (with CGJ activists leading the way as a voice for Palestine's voiceless) was met instead with denial, dismissal, and apology.

Biblical Perspective

Of course, I know that criticizing Zionists for their treatment of Palestinians is quite different from the holocaust denial that some on the OEN call perceived a few weeks ago.

It is also probably futile for members of the goyim like me to comment on the topic. Frankly, I'm unqualified to do so, because:

  • My relatives and loved ones weren't the ones slaughtered in Hitler's crematoria and gas chambers.
  • They weren't among the peasants, laborers, shopkeepers, mothers, fathers, grandparents and children whose lives were cruelly wasted and destroyed by the Third Reich.
  • Instead, as Elie Wiesel has pointed out again and again, my Christian religious cohorts were the very ones who incinerated Jews during the week, went to confession on Saturday, were given absolution, received Holy Communion on Sunday, and then returned to their gruesome work the following day.

Yet, it must be acknowledged that my religious tradition is also specifically Judeo-Christian. Its central figure is the Jewish prophet, Jesus of Nazareth, who was a reformer of Judaism and had no intention of founding a new religion. Jesus was not a Christian; from his birth to his death, he was a proud and faithful Jew.

Next Page  1  |  2

(Note: You can view every article as one long page if you sign up as an Advocate Member, or higher).

 

Must Read 5   Well Said 4   Supported 4  
Rate It | View Ratings

Mike Rivage-Seul Social Media Pages: Facebook Page       Twitter Page       Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in       Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Mike Rivage-Seul is a liberation theologian and former Roman Catholic priest. Retired in 2014, he taught at Berea College in Kentucky for 40 years where he directed Berea's Peace and Social Justice Studies Program. His latest book is "The Magic (more...)
 

Go To Commenting
The views expressed herein are the sole responsibility of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of this website or its editors.
Follow Me on Twitter     Writers Guidelines
Contact AuthorContact Author Contact EditorContact Editor Author PageView Authors' Articles
Support OpEdNews

OpEdNews depends upon can't survive without your help.

If you value this article and the work of OpEdNews, please either Donate or Purchase a premium membership.

STAY IN THE KNOW
If you've enjoyed this, sign up for our daily or weekly newsletter to get lots of great progressive content.
Daily Weekly     OpEdNews Newsletter
Name
Email
   (Opens new browser window)
 

Most Popular Articles by this Author:     (View All Most Popular Articles by this Author)

Sunday Homily: Pope Francis to Women: The Next Pope Should Be One of You!

The Case for and Intimate Relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene

"Cloud Atlas": A Film for the Ages (But perhaps not for ours)

Muhammad as Liberationist Prophet (Pt. 2 of 4 on Islam as Liberation Theology)

What You Don't Know About Cuba Tells You About YOUR Future

Sunday Homily: Pope Francis' New Song -- Seven Things You May Have Missed in 'The Joy of the Gospel'

Comments

The time limit for entering new comments on this article has expired.

This limit can be removed. Our paid membership program is designed to give you many benefits, such as removing this time limit. To learn more, please click here.

10 people are discussing this page, with 27 comments


Mike Rivage-Seul

Become a Fan Follow Me on Twitter
(Member since Apr 9, 2010), 51 fans, 328 articles, 1247 comments, 4 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

  New Content

Be sure to read my summary of the OEN discussion here.

Submitted on Saturday, Oct 31, 2020 at 10:00:01 AM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (4+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
Indent

Mike Rivage-Seul

Become a Fan Follow Me on Twitter
(Member since Apr 9, 2010), 51 fans, 328 articles, 1247 comments, 4 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Mike Rivage-Seul:   New Content

Here's a quasi-transcript of the exchange between on the one hand, the provocateur at the OEN meeting and on the other those who found his remarks offensive:

The Offending Remarks

"I never use the word 'fascist,'" the provocateur said. "I never use the word 'holocaust' either. That's because the simple use of those words implies that one accepts the assumptions of Zionists and right-wing Jews. I refuse to do that, because the words suggest that in the 1930s, the German Jews were entirely innocent, when they weren't - not by a long shot.

"I mean, no one hates any person or group without reason. For instance, the Shylock character in the "Merchant of Venice" wasn't simply a product of Shakespeare's imagination. Shylock had a foundation in reality - in people's experience. And like Shylock, elite Jews in Germany gave Germans plenty of reason for hating them. In turn, Hitler used that legitimate animosity towards the few to tar all Jews - even the poorest and most exploited - with the same well-justified brush.

"Let me explain.

"The fact is that the period from the end of the 19th century to WWI was a very prosperous time. Working class expectations for social mobility were on the rise. However, to move up the social ladder - to become an attorney, for instance one had to belong to certain clubs (like guilds) in order to get clients. Wealthy Jews who were the bankers, attorneys and physicians, controlled the clubs in question; and they wouldn't let working class people in. That created a lot of bitterness towards Jews in general.

"Before that, under feudalism and until the end of the First World War, the people who owned the land were the nobles, the clergy, the burghers and yes, the Jews. Wealthy Jews were not peasants. They had privileges. For instance, they could carry weapons. They also bought leases to the estates of the nobles (sometimes the size of entire counties). They managed those estates for a profit.

"In other words, wealthy Jews were the interface between the peasants and the nobles.

"At the same time, the nobles mistrusted the Jews I'm describing because (again) they were the bankers, attorneys, and physicians. The nobles resented having to trust the Jews for all those essential services. For their part, the peasants mistrusted the Jews just referenced because they were always in debt to them as their landlords.

"Then following the First World War and the Treaty of Versailles, Germany experienced tremendous inflation that drastically devalued the German mark. The Jews were blamed for that too because they controlled banking. The fact is that Jewish bankers engineered the inflation to bring down the actual costs of repaying the debts demanded by the Versailles treaty. That served the interests of the wealthiest Germans who, like the wealthy today, kept their money not in savings accounts but in stocks, bonds, and real estate. Unlike working class savings accounts, the value of stocks, bonds, and real estate float with inflation. So, inflation helped the rich Germans stay rich, but completely wiped out the country's workers, both Jewish and non-Jewish.

"Finally, there came the Great Crash of 1929 that impoverished everyone. So, by the time Hitler came to power in 1933, the Germans, the Poles, the Hungarians and the Austrians were all ready to explode. And, of course, Hitler lit the match with his identification of all Jews as the root of their problems."

Responses

Responses included the following:

  • I disagree. People do in fact hate individuals and groups for no reason at all. And Jews in Hitler's Germany represent a case in point. They were completely innocent. To hint otherwise is simply anti-Semitic and leads to holocaust denial.
  • I don't think there were very many Jews who managed property for the feudal lords. Yes, there may have been a few Jews who had a lot of power, and there is something to the Rothschilds, and now we have the Zionists that I absolutely hate. However . . .
  • You're talking about Jews as if they were somehow monolithic. Most Jews were poor.
  • Yes, my own ancestors were holocaust victims and I assure you that they had nothing to do with what you've just described.
  • My grandmother was dragged off to Auschwitz with her husband and three children. Their entire village was leveled.
  • I've heard these tired arguments before - you know: the Jews keep to themselves, they wear odd clothes, speak their own language, etc., etc. It's all part of anti-Semitism. I don't buy any of it.
  • You should be ashamed of yourself. You're nothing but an anti-Semitic holocaust denier. You're basically saying that "The Jews deserved what they got in the holocaust. That makes you uncivilized; you should get off this call."
  • I hope you're recording all of this, Rob, so we can go back and see who's misrepresenting what.

Submitted on Saturday, Oct 31, 2020 at 8:19:26 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (3+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?

David William Pear

Become a Fan
(Member since Nov 29, 2014), 54 fans, 86 articles, 461 quicklinks, 4825 comments (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

  New Content

The winners get to write the history and control the narrative.

From a historical view, the phenomium of Nazism, Hitler, imperialism and genocide is not unique. It is the norm of history.

The U.S. alone, since the end of WW2, has exterminated and destroyed more than in WW1 and WW2 combined. The holocausts and pogroms continue unabated, the victims for over 500 years have been mostly brown and black. The West usually only gets horrified when the victims are "white" (e.g. French attacks of past few days by "terrorists").

Being in the "white club" is a nebulous thing: Jews, Slavs, Iranians, Latinx, Japanese, Irish, Italian, Lebanese, etc. have sometimes passed the test and sometimes not. Then there is class. South America is a conundrum of racist and class combined--- the upper class considered themselves white, although many have a mahogany hue that confuses North Americans.

And then there is Palestine. 3 million humans on the West Bank and 2 million in Gaza are held in outdoor concentration camps. They are considered vermin by many zionists, and Israel's pogrom against them is mostly tolerated, even cheered by the West. This should be very troubling for those that condemn The Holocaust.

And what about Hitler's megalomaniacal desire for world domination. How does that compare the the sun never setting on the British Empire, and the U.S.'s bloody imperialism for a unipolar world?

Fascism, eugenics, exceptionalism, the chosen, and classism is having a great revival. It makes for a business friendly world for the oligarchs, corporations being people, their elite servant class, and corrupt politicians.

Submitted on Saturday, Oct 31, 2020 at 7:58:02 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (8+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
Indent

Mike Rivage-Seul

Become a Fan Follow Me on Twitter
(Member since Apr 9, 2010), 51 fans, 328 articles, 1247 comments, 4 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to David William Pear:   New Content

Great comment, David. I especially welcome what you said about Hitler's aspirations to world domination and the U.S. actual achievement of his goal. I often think that Hitler actually won the Second Inter-capitalist War. That is, his system did and the U.S. is in the position he coveted. You're right on as well with your comparison of the numbers Hitler killed and the number the U.S. has slaughtered since that inter-capitalist war. No one in the MSM and few in our system of education stand ready to voice these truths.

Submitted on Saturday, Oct 31, 2020 at 8:07:50 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (7+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndent

David William Pear

Become a Fan
(Member since Nov 29, 2014), 54 fans, 86 articles, 461 quicklinks, 4825 comments (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Mike Rivage-Seul:   New Content

Few people know about the holocaust the U.S. backed in Indonesia and East Timor, mostly Muslims. The killing began soon after a visit by Henry Kissinger. People should know as it has been the model for U.S. foreign policy. It was the precursor to Pol Pot, Latin American death squads, Afghan mujahideen, Yugoslavia, and the so-called War on Terror.

With the uproar in France and the U.S. people should take another look at Collateral Murder and IDF shooting Gazans for sport.

Catholics have long history of being persecuted--- do you still hide guns in the basement and have orgies with the nuns (irony). That is what my Southern relatives used to tell me.

There were many serious people in the U.S. that backed Hitler. Congressman Truman said at the beginning of WW2: if the Germans are winning give aid to Russia, and vice versa--- let them kill as many of each other as possible. Then as president he unnecessarily dropped two atomic bombs on Japan as a show of power to Stalin. The targets were purposely untouched prior by U.S. bombing so that the military and scientists could study it (i.e. human experimentation).

Submitted on Saturday, Oct 31, 2020 at 8:26:37 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (8+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndentIndent

Mike Rivage-Seul

Become a Fan Follow Me on Twitter
(Member since Apr 9, 2010), 51 fans, 328 articles, 1247 comments, 4 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to David William Pear:   New Content

Thanks again, David. Oliver Stone and Peter Kuznick are great on all of this -- both in print and on film. This is the sort of history that needs to be taught to our children and grandchildren. I'm grateful to Howard Zinn and the tool he gave me when I was teaching a course at Berea called "U.S. Traditions." One of my historian colleagues dismissed the book as "revisionist history."

Submitted on Saturday, Oct 31, 2020 at 9:18:55 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (5+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndentIndentIndent

Michael Dewey

Become a Fan
Author 11470
Follow Me on Twitter (Member since Feb 15, 2008), 18 fans, 23 articles, 6 quicklinks, 4021 comments, 17 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)

"When shall it be said in any country of the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive...when these things can be said, then may that country boast of its constitution and government."~ Thomas Paine"
       -- Tom Paine

Facebook Page Twitter Page Linked In Page Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Mike Rivage-Seul:   New Content

I'd pick you to defend Howard Zinn for being called a liar on live TV by Trump. I don't like Trump getting away with that lie. Yes, America can still be a special country if it becomes an example of how things are done right. Trump being in office is proof its not that example. While you are at it in defending Zinn you could also throw in a couple of lines at the Religious Right, my main domestic enemy today, with MSM next with Congress and Fed tied for 3rd.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 6:05:47 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (0+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndentIndentIndentIndent

Mike Rivage-Seul

Become a Fan Follow Me on Twitter
(Member since Apr 9, 2010), 51 fans, 328 articles, 1247 comments, 4 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Michael Dewey:   New Content

Trump's criticism of Howard Zinn probably helped the sale of A People's History. At least I hope that's the case. It's a shame that more young people aren't exposed to Zinn in their high school and college courses.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 7:48:31 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (1+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?

Robert Adler

Become a Fan
Author 88362
(Member since Jun 11, 2013), 2 fans, 18 articles, 137 comments (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in Linked In Page Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

  New Content

Truth telling--great.

Victim blaming--tendentious and offensive.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 5:05:24 AM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (1+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
Indent

Mike Rivage-Seul

Become a Fan Follow Me on Twitter
(Member since Apr 9, 2010), 51 fans, 328 articles, 1247 comments, 4 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Robert Adler:   New Content

I agree, Robert. Please read over the "quasi transcript" I've reproduced above (in my 2nd comment) and tell me if you think what the "provocateur" voiced in the conversation was tendentious and offensive or victim blaming. Also (addressing the thrust of my article) do you think Amos' and Jesus' criticisms of the leadership of their country (both in circumstances of imminent or actual occupation by foreign powers) amounted to victim blaming? The distinction between prophetic national and personal self-criticism and victim blaming strikes me as a fine one.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 12:24:48 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (3+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndent

Robert Adler

Become a Fan
Author 88362
(Member since Jun 11, 2013), 2 fans, 18 articles, 137 comments (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in Linked In Page Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Mike Rivage-Seul:   New Content

Mike,

Yes, I do think that what the "provocateur" voiced was all three--tendentious, victim-blaming and offensive. His statement, "I refuse to do that [use the words fascist or holocaust], because the words suggest that in the 1930s, the German Jews were entirely innocent, when they weren't - not by a long shot" boils all of those into a nasty little meme.

An interesting test for this sort of subliminal or dog-whistle anti-Semitism is to substitute any other group who have suffered genocide. For example, "I refuse to do that, because the words suggest that in 1970s, the non-Khmer-Rouge Cambodians were entirely innocent, when they weren't -- not by a long shot." Or, even closer, "I refuse to do that, because the words suggest that in the 1930s, the ethnic Poles were entirely innocent, when they weren't -- not by a long shot."

As to your point about prophetic national and personal self-criticism, I agree with you, with a caveat. It's one thing for a member of a society or country to criticize its elites (pretty much everyone who contributes to OpEdNews does that all the time, even if not at the level of the biblical prophets), and another for someone from a different, outside group to do so. I'm not saying that criticism from external sources is always wrong, badly motivated, or should reflexively be rejected, only that, especially to a member of a stigmatized or victimized group, such external criticism sounds and feels very different than internal or self criticism.

As we see over and over again from public figures who make blatantly racist or sexist statements but then say that "I'm not a racist/sexist, that's not who I am," it's probably a good rule of thumb to ask the targeted group rather than the offender whether or not a given statement or act is or isn't offensive.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 4:19:09 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (1+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndentIndent

shad williams

Become a Fan
Author 63282
(Member since Apr 13, 2011), 26 fans, 71 articles, 23 quicklinks, 4132 comments, 2 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Robert Adler:   New Content

There is a certain amount of truth in the oppressed group retaining its right to make stereotypical racist statements about its own oppression. The generosity to give up this "right" and allow it to be shared with others is to become even more vulnerable but also open to love.

I have found my own ignorance of history to stand in the way of my understanding. Being cool and objective is difficult when emotionally charged acts short circuit the empathy that history should impart if we were open to it.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 6:51:38 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (1+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndentIndentIndent

Robert Adler

Become a Fan
Author 88362
(Member since Jun 11, 2013), 2 fans, 18 articles, 137 comments (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in Linked In Page Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to shad williams:   New Content

Shad, the kind of vulnerability and openness you speak of, and the ability to remain cool and objective when emotional buttons are being pushed strike me as great virtues. Can't say that I've achieved them, but thanks for putting them out there as goals to strive for.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 7:14:10 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (0+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndentIndent

Mike Rivage-Seul

Become a Fan Follow Me on Twitter
(Member since Apr 9, 2010), 51 fans, 328 articles, 1247 comments, 4 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Robert Adler:   New Content

Robert, I think that in the end you're articulating the very valid Glass Houses Principle. Too often (as, for example, in MSM criticism of China's treatment of Yugur Muslims) the U.S. is in no position to pass judgment. It's the same with accusations of others regarding elections, human rights, torture, indiscriminate bombing, etc., etc.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 7:41:39 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (2+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndentIndentIndent

David William Pear

Become a Fan
(Member since Nov 29, 2014), 54 fans, 86 articles, 461 quicklinks, 4825 comments (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Mike Rivage-Seul:   New Content

Yes, glass houses--- all victims of war, oppression and exploitation are innocent.

Yet it is expected in some quarters that all Muslims have to apologize and denounce every act of every deranged member of the Islamic faith to prove that they were "moderate" Muslims. It is socially accepted to make the vilest slanders of Muslims, racist caricatures, insulting Hollywood stereotypes, and condemnation of Islam as innately an evil religion. Selective passages of the Quran and used to "prove" that the victims are "not innocent".

So I ask, are Muslims guilty? Are Palestinians guilty? Are Iranians guilty? If not then why are they the victims of war, oppression, and exploitation?

Would it be acceptable, free speech and community standards to post stereotype "cartoons" of any ethnic/religious group except Muslims?

Submitted on Monday, Nov 2, 2020 at 7:26:55 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (1+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?

Mohammad Ala

Become a Fan
Author 8028
(Member since Oct 1, 2007), 10 fans, 28 articles, 53 quicklinks, 1383 comments, 3 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

  New Content

Thanks for this article and David Pear's comments. David is a courageous person to speak about helpless people.

I disagree about victorious people write history. This history is nothing but lies. Lies get tested by many and proven victorious people in addition to being murderers, they were dishonest. England comes to mind, e.g., praising Winston Churchill who is now considered a murderer and criminal for stealing food from Indians and Iranians to feed its criminal army.

The majority of people are not fool. They read and observe the suffering(s) of innocent people.

Western media cannot hide its lies. Western media has not been truthful. Western media claims to be free but is not because interest groups control it.

There has been injustice, there has been stealing, e.g., lands of helpless people. Those who consider religious are living in stolen land and over the grave of many innocents people among them millions of children and elderly.

Criminals are criminals, they cannot hide. Evidences are plenty. A good place is the museums where stolen artifacts are displayed. Criminals pride themselves in displaying stolen artifacts while natives being robbed and terrorized.

Stealing, bombing innocent people, and depleting natural resources of native people will continue. Nothing can hide atrocities be it in the name of religion or having power to steal.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 12:23:15 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (5+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
Indent

Mike Rivage-Seul

Become a Fan Follow Me on Twitter
(Member since Apr 9, 2010), 51 fans, 328 articles, 1247 comments, 4 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Mohammad Ala:   New Content

Good and helpful comment, Mohammad. I have often found myself thinking that the Jewish and Christian Testaments are unique in the ancient world because their entries often contain historical interpretations by victims of empires rather than those of the "victorious" conquerers -- Egyptians, Assyrians, Persians, Babylonians, Greeks and Romans. But even there we find a narrative struggle between the royal classes of the Hebrews, Israelites, the inhabitants of Judah and the Jews on the one hand and the lower class poor on the other. Repeatedly, the royals tried to appropriate for themselves the faith tradition of liberated slaves. Prophets like Amos and Jesus insisted on taking the part of the latter. They consistently saw what they called "God" standing on the side of the poor and oppressed. Whatever we might think of "God," I find that at least interesting if not encouraging and thought-provoking.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 12:36:19 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (2+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
Indent

Lance Ciepiela

Become a Fan
Author 14196
Follow Me on Twitter (Member since Apr 4, 2008), 53 fans, 58 articles, 243 quicklinks, 5341 comments, 215 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Mohammad Ala:   New Content

Oh No, 'bombing innocent people' - exactly what a 'deceptive one', loaded with 'absolute power', did to Iraq and the lethal removal of their sovereign leader and government with his 'regime change wars'. George W Bush - "Crimes of Aggression" - #VERDICT "they acted with deceit and with falsehood" - #NurembergRedux - #911Treason.

Iraq War 'Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Posed an Imminent Security Threat to the United States Fraudulent Justification' Article II
Iraq War 'Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Posed an Imminent Security Threat to the United States Fraudulent Justification' Article II
(Image by PrinceVega.com)
Details DMCA

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 2:59:23 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (2+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
Indent

shad williams

Become a Fan
Author 63282
(Member since Apr 13, 2011), 26 fans, 71 articles, 23 quicklinks, 4132 comments, 2 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Mohammad Ala:   New Content

I agree that history can be brushed stroked and shoveled down the memory hole. Censorship and suppression has become a major tool of the elites after their consolidation of MSM, and given them more room to engage in deadly acts and threats against those that expose what a bunch of lying, thieving, murdering f$%^a&*ls(- Vanessa Bealey, Eva Bartlett and Whitney Webb are in the process of being lined up by the state. What are we going to do?

A dear friend of mine complained that destroying "statues" served no purpose except to make others angry. I found it easy at first to agree, superficially. But...I see the purpose of destroying the "statues" as a call for american whites who are ignorant of their history, to first recognize the misdeeds in their heritage and in doing so to have empathy for those striking out at such symbols. That would be an act of love and understanding. As surely as night follows day american whites casual acceptance of such monuments is a heritage blind spot, whereas to their oppressed the blind spot is obvious - the monuments are deeply embedded reminders to all americans of an unrepentant and unforgiving heritage of conquest as surely as the monuments were flesh and blood and still riding high in the saddle today...and of course the problem is, the monuments are still alive, riding as high as they ever were.

So, there is purpose if we are open to it. The destruction of such statues is not against flesh and bone but against a continuous psyop of bad messaging. But because the masters of the Narrative are very nimble and their control is becoming more absolute, such germs of reconciliation can barely take place. For if empathy and reconciliation were to take hold, it would threaten the purveyors of the Narrative and perhaps loosen their deadly clutch from our throats who even now have convinced americans that the presidential election day must course be violent. We continue to allow ourselves to become partners to the totalitarian two-step.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 7:20:21 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (1+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndent

David William Pear

Become a Fan
(Member since Nov 29, 2014), 54 fans, 86 articles, 461 quicklinks, 4825 comments (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to shad williams:   New Content

Shad, that is a most eloquent comment. Yes, all the symbols glorifying oppression, exploitation and slavery should come down. Put them in a museum at best. Mount Rushmore should be restored to its natural beauty too. It is an in-your-face rub-your-nose in it of the "great white fathers" who stole the Black Hills and all of America from the indigenous inhabitants. U.S. African Americans and Native Americans are owed reparations.

Submitted on Monday, Nov 2, 2020 at 7:36:16 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (1+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndentIndent

shad williams

Become a Fan
Author 63282
(Member since Apr 13, 2011), 26 fans, 71 articles, 23 quicklinks, 4132 comments, 2 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to David William Pear:   New Content

Yes. Imagine reconciliation, not erasure nor continued ignorance and disregard!

Imagine humans reconciling with each other over the entire world and with the wonderful planet itself. That may be evolutionary.

Submitted on Monday, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:46:51 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (1+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?

Bob Stuart

Become a Fan
Author 26603
(Member since Nov 19, 2008), 3 fans, 4 articles, 632 comments (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

  New Content

I also avoid or qualify references to "The Holocaust" because that phrase ignores dozens of similar events. Millions and millions of other murders are almost never mentioned, let alone invoked in decisions. Freshened outrage over "THE Holocaust" has even legitimized further atrocities. It also lets Jews appropriate the grief that should belong to the various "defective" groups who also went to the death camps.

When I read the instructions on how to deal with a conquered city in the Talmud, I know that whoever made the Jews homeless was more merciful than them, but didn't want such a threat among their neighbours. Also, it wasn't Muslims. I wonder if the "lost tribes" are just the less fanatical or lapsed Jews, and the ancestors of the Palestinians.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 1:11:09 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (1+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
Indent

Mike Rivage-Seul

Become a Fan Follow Me on Twitter
(Member since Apr 9, 2010), 51 fans, 328 articles, 1247 comments, 4 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Bob Stuart:   New Content

What's often overlooked is the Semitic background of Palestinians.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 7:45:49 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (2+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndent

Peter Franzen

Become a Fan
Author 83997
(Member since Nov 23, 2012), 3 fans, 147 comments (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Not paid member and Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in Not paid member and Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in Not paid member and Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Not paid member and Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Mike Rivage-Seul:   New Content

It hasn't been overlooked by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) which has gone to extreme lengths to attempt to re-write the definition of anti-Semitism and criminalise any criticism of the state of Israel.

Submitted on Monday, Nov 2, 2020 at 9:11:52 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (0+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?
IndentIndentIndent

Mike Rivage-Seul

Become a Fan Follow Me on Twitter
(Member since Apr 9, 2010), 51 fans, 328 articles, 1247 comments, 4 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook Page Twitter Page Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Reply to Peter Franzen:   New Content

Nor has it been overlooked by Jerusalem's Sabeel Center for Liberation Theology.

Submitted on Monday, Nov 2, 2020 at 10:14:41 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (0+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?

Nels Wight

Become a Fan
Author 2581
(Member since Sep 3, 2006), 4 fans, 1451 comments (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Not paid member and Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in Not paid member and Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in Not paid member and Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Not paid member and Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

  New Content

You speak way beyond words, Michael. In my opinion,you might

even be well on the way to sainthood.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 3:49:06 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (1+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?

shad williams

Become a Fan
Author 63282
(Member since Apr 13, 2011), 26 fans, 71 articles, 23 quicklinks, 4132 comments, 2 diaries (How many times has this commenter been recommended?)
Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

  New Content

It is difficult to recognize one's own faults when they are projected on to others. The recognition of one's shortcomings, especially one's own hypocrisy, can be enervating while hanging out on the road of righteous indignation. But I shake this self defeating feeling off as we all must, if we are to save ourselves, and rationalize that it is the lying, thieving, murderous bastards who run the world that should suffer, not for their hypocrisy for they are not hypocrites but for their hubris belief that the world is deservedly as it should be.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2020 at 6:05:53 PM

Author 0
Add New Comment
  Recommend  (2+)
Flag This
Share Comment More Sharing          
Commenter Blocking?

 
Want to post your own comment on this Article? Post Comment