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OpEdNews Op Eds    H3'ed 4/27/19

Take the blue pill

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So I turned on the telly on a Saturday morning to scan the MSM headlines, and this is what they decided was important for the public to know: that the FBI was investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election in Florida (yes, still); that Bernie Sanders was being criticized for proposing that 'the Boston bomber' be allowed to cast a vote; that Julian Assange was charged with rape in Sweden. Except that none of those stories were true: Hard evidence shows that Russia did not interfere in any US election in any way while Israel interfered in several federal elections by throwing millions at right wing candidates, that the Tsarnaev brothers had nothing to do with the "bombs" exploded at the Boston marathon and were classic patsies, and the charge levied against Assange in Sweden, 'having consensual sex without a condom', had been dropped years earlier, initially after the first judge reviewed evidence of a honey trap. (I have the facts to back all of this up, but to explain each would require book length articles on each subject. email me if you want the data).

So. What exactly is the point of the news media in the United States? To make up fiction and then trumpet it round the clock under the theory that any lie repeated often enough becomes fact. And the majority of Americans have evidently decided that they so love the lies and hate the truth that they will scream and yell endlessly to defend the lies rather than be forced to face uncomfortable facts. Any effort I make to point this out gets the following response: "If you hate America so much why don't you leave"? I can't tell you how many times I have heard that question. I confess I would have left a decade ago if I had not had responsibility for my parents' care. But it is a phony question anyway. Insisting on facts and truth is not a trait that qualifies me as being un-American. It just qualifies me as being awake.

German citizens have faced their past head on, with 90 years of self-flagellation for the crimes of the Third Reich and with laws passed to ensure it cannot resurrect itself. But that is not a process Americans are capable of undergoing. Maybe we would need to endure a colossal defeat like that suffered by Germany in WWII to understand guilt and contrition. The last figure I read of deaths caused globally by American wars since 911 was 70 million - fifty million of whom were civilians.* I have yet to see any remorse for those actions from among my fellow citizens, much less the American media.

The way I read the vicious hatred of Assange is this: "How dare you try to make me see what the US government is doing ? I don't want to know that. " or to quote Barbara Bush, "Why should I waste my beautiful mind on body bags?" I can't blame people for wanting life to be fun - and easy. It would be nice, wouldn't it. When Edward Snowden sacrificed his luxurious privileged life in Hawaii to serve the public interest he never suspected that the public would care so little about being tracked, spied on and recorded they would not even raise an objection once the truth was revealed. Whistle-blowers have one thing in common - they are people of conscience. They can't live with participating in cruel or illegal government activity and are willing to risk lengthy prison terms, torture and even death to expose it. For all of them in recent US history their revelations have fallen largely on deaf ears and their extraordinary sacrifices have gone largely unappreciated.

And of course our trusty corporate media excoriated them with giant bullhorns, condemning not the illegal and immoral activity of the government and its political parties, but the leaking of it, thus easing the minds of all of those who found the truth too unsettling. In the digital age there will always be hackers. The crimes and lies and secrets of governments and sleazy politicians will be much harder to conceal going forward. The plain truth is that the facts of every event and issue facing us are readily available in the real (read alternative) media to any person who wants to know. But most Americans do not. What does that say about our character as a nation. The blue pill is more fun.

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** I can't recall my source on those numbers but am still trying to pull it up. It is certainly possible that the source added one too many zeros and meant 7 million, and 5 million civilians. I will hyperlink the source if I locate it.

(Article changed on April 29, 2019 at 00:22)

 

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Lila York is a choreographer and activist. "The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." -- William Colby (Former CIA Director) "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything (more...)
 

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28 people are discussing this page, with 185 comments


Josh Mitteldorf

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  New Content

People aren't stupid. They're being manipulated with sophisticated and pervasive disinformation.

Submitted on Saturday, Apr 27, 2019 at 6:30:13 PM

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lila york

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Reply to Josh Mitteldorf:   New Content

true. But few of us have the will to question it. We can blame that on abysmal education standards. or laziness.

Submitted on Saturday, Apr 27, 2019 at 6:41:45 PM

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Bill Willers

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Reply to lila york:   New Content

Regarding "Tsarnaev brothers had nothing to do with the "bombs" exploded at the Boston marathon", and also to the 70 million deaths post 9/11, I would like sources if you have them. Thank you. billwillers@gmail.com

Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 5:51:09 PM

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lila york

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Reply to Bill Willers:   New Content

I just wrote a very very long reply to one member here. There are still links up at Paul Craig Roberts site - easy to locate with a duckduckgo search under his name and boston bombing. I wrote an article on this years ago but the sources I had with detailed photos and documentation of the actors have all been erased. only ones still in existence I can see are from canada and australia. the american links had multiple photos taken by eyewitnesses. I urge you to search this information yourself. One of the kids is still living although it is doubtful TPTB will allow the truth to emerge in a court. As to the 70 million quote I cannot locate the source but please see posts further down the page for the discussion of those statistics. I read upwards of 100 articles every day. The statistic I quoted I read within the last few days so I thought I might be able to find it again. but I can't seem to. i recall that the writer was a woman but not which publication. I will probably locate it long after this page is in the archives, but for now I don't have more hours to devote to it.

Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 6:45:39 PM

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lila york

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Reply to lila york:   New Content

All of the videos of the boston marathon bombing event have been removed from youtube by google and wiped clean - even those that were on multiple other websites. The sources I used for my article were from investigative journalists, not conspiracy sites. but this is one that I think I could call legitimate. It is a statement from a trauma surgeon on why the people posing as victims could not have been victims.

click here

Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 8:04:02 PM

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lila york

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Reply to lila york:   New Content

click here


most recent article from PCR on the subject

Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 9:01:16 PM

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lila york

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Reply to lila york:   New Content

Two articles linked by PCR on this subject. Both were new to me



click here


click here



Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 10:10:44 PM

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BFalcon

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Reply to lila york:   New Content

From your link:

"Today, April 15, 2017, is the fourth anniversary of the Boston Marathon Bombing, a hoax event performed by crisis actors and tell-tale bright red Hollywood blood. Sheila Casey has done a good job of exposing the hoax just by using the time line and photos of the event. https://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2013/05/08/false-flag-theatre-boston-bombing-involves-clearly-staged-carnage/

A number of agencies run training programs in which amputees working as crisis actors have a prosthesis afixed to resemble a bone as a remaining piece of a leg or arm. Casey examines the Boston event by timeline. First the crisis actors are assembled. Then the prosthesis is attached. Then the blood appears.

Notice the photo of Miracle Man laying on his side clutching the back of his left thigh with a straight line sticking out from what appears to be below his knee. This does not resemble a leg bone. Moreover, a person with an injury this severe would not be conscious, and certainly he would not be ignored while aid workers attended to those with lesser injuries. Note also the bright red color of what is pretending to be blood. Many surgeons and trauma medical personnel have testified that blood spilled in injuries is dark red.

Sheila Casey walks you through the hoax. I am convinced that the only victims of the Boston Marathon bombing were the framed Tsarnaev brothers."

So, Lila, it is not that you and PCR claim that Tsarnaev brothers "had nothing to do with the bombs" but that "there were no bombs or victims"?

Dr. PCR and you at your best.

Submitted on Monday, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:41:07 AM

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Reply to Bill Willers:   New Content

If you focus on 20 million combatants' death you can see the absurdity.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-soldiers-are-there-in-the-world-combined :

Paul Davey , Knows something about most things, or how to find it out

Answered Jun 29, 2016 · Author has 707 answers and 961.1k answer views

  • Total regular & reserve forces 45,503,049
  • Total regular, reserve & paramilitary forces 64,812,816

Based on data in number of military and paramilitary personnel for each of 171 countries (including all the major ones I can think of) with data sourced from the 2014 edition of "The Military Balance" published annually by the International Institute for Strategic Studies .

(Not included in the list are the militaries of Abkhazia , Andorra , Bhutan , Northern Cyprus , Monaco ,Nagorno-Karabakh , San Marino , Saint Kitts and Nevis , São Tome' and Príncipe , Somaliland , Swaziland , Tonga and Vanuatu . - FYI there...

(more) Loading"

  • Total regular & reserve forces 45,503,049
  • Total regular, reserve & paramilitary forces 64,812,816
  • So the world lost one quarter of all the regular, reserve and paramilitary forces.
  • Funny.

      Submitted on Monday, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:52:23 AM

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      Nicholas Ginex

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      Lila, you have identified the root of the problem. It's not laziness, its poor education whereby students are not taught to question, critique, compare and investigate other paths of knowledge to discern the truth.

      Submitted on Tuesday, Apr 30, 2019 at 5:44:50 AM

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      Reply to Josh Mitteldorf:   New Content

      Naw.Many are stupid

      Submitted on Saturday, Apr 27, 2019 at 8:33:45 PM

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      gentry cooper

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      Reply to Josh Mitteldorf:   New Content

      Josh I don't know. The info is out there. There is evidence they can see with their own eyes, but they refuse to see it as Lila says. And a major point is they are not stupid like you say. To me they willfully choose to go along with evil. Example they have made it legal for cops to gun down black people and their children. I just don't have faith in American people.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 10:19:51 PM

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      David Watts

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      Lila, your article is short, superb, and to the point. Thank you.

      I think you are mistaken in just one sentence, "The crimes and lies and secrets of governments and sleazy politicians will be much harder to conceal going forward." Lila, with by far most people taking the blue pill, I think it will only get easier going forward.

      Is there any reason to hold out any hope? To be honest, not for me...

      Submitted on Saturday, Apr 27, 2019 at 8:59:37 PM

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      lila york

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      Reply to David Watts:   New Content

      You may be right. Hackers are a pretty sophisticated bunch. I hold out hope that they will continue to stay one step ahead of the nsa. anonymous has performed a few amazing feats. Assange's persecution will surely force them underground, but I doubt they will disappear. Look at history. Wherever there was totalitarian persecution there was rebellion. This time will be no different. Those of us who inhabit the alternative press have a duty to keep writing as long as we are able.

      Submitted on Saturday, Apr 27, 2019 at 9:55:50 PM

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      Devil's Advocate

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      I don't think "people" are, exactly, "stupid". But they are severely DISTRACTED. Distracted by their environment, their lives, and particularly, their exposure to what information is available and the way it's presented to them over the years, and by whom.

      Then, throw in social media. What should have been a great international liberating forum turned into a corporate tool of mass mind manipulation.

      This is actually the biggest of all reasons I keep bellyaching about the need to change our internet use methodology altogether. For some insight into this part of the conversation, there's a short documentary currently playing on RT this week, called "Creepy Line". It at least explains just how the manipulation I speak of is made possible, and how it's done.

      I know, I often come across as believing the majority of the population is made up of "dumb-assed MFs", as Carlin used to say without the "abbreviation", but I do actually lean more toward to old adage "we're all just a product of our environment".

      Submitted on Saturday, Apr 27, 2019 at 9:08:45 PM

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      Reply to Devil's Advocate:   New Content

      Having said that, I would add that, if the education process was actually fulfilling a proper mission (in other words, doing its job), people would be more informed from the get-go. They'd know what propaganda is, and what corporatism really is, etc.

      But, it's quite obvious even that part of our lives is under the control of those who want to keep us all uninformed. The betrayal is embedded in the school system, and the content being approved for teaching, as well as being woven into the very fabric of all our other information mechanisms.

      Submitted on Saturday, Apr 27, 2019 at 9:21:02 PM

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      lila york

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      Reply to Devil's Advocate:   New Content

      You make a number of excellent points. It may be generational too. For my generation what we learned of the Vietnam war got us into the streets in massive numbers. Eventually we won that fight. The gen xers may be or too worried about their college debt to follow what is happening. I remember in my college years how we all gathered around the tube to watch the war news and hear Eric Sevareid. We read the ny Times every day. We were plugged in. I'm not sure this generation really is beyond an overriding concern with climate change. They aren't following the sanctions in Venezuela or the imprisonment of Assange. That is more the old guard - and much too few of us. I am recalling that maybe 50 people I know who supported HRC were distraught beyond words when she lost the election. When it was revealed that she had not only stolen the primary from Sanders but committed multiple acts of treason and taken bribe money from foreign nations as Sec. of State, they were not at all moved by that information - just angry at wikileaks for revealing it. so that is the core issue right there. we have a moral fiber problem.

      Submitted on Saturday, Apr 27, 2019 at 10:05:31 PM

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      No doubt there's a huge disconnection all over the board. Between people not knowing anything about what's going on around them, to those who just refuse to accept that which contradicts their own preferred narratives, it can actually be difficult to find people who have a clue.

      I know what it's like to feel surrounded by the clueless. I was probably the one person in my whole circle who watched 9/11 and questioned it all the day it happened. It was like the whole world around me wanted to put me in a straitjacket and haul my ass to the psyche ward.

      I still get the same treatment when I talk about many other "popular" topics. I do get more who will listen now than before, though.

      I blame the way most of these people grew up for their attitudes. They were generally "pack animals", in that, they all acted as a "unit" - looking to each other for approval, getting their "knowledge" from each other. None of them seemed to ever "stray from the herd". I was the lone "nomad", who spent half my time to myself, and the other half socializing with all sorts of different people from different areas.

      Some of the younger crowds are more awake than their parents, while some others seem to be completely absorbed in personal gain, amusement and social acceptance. I don't see any one "category" of people being more aware than another.

      In one sense, that could be a sign that the MSM is finished. They're failing to influence the masses to the same degree as before. (Probably why they've cranked up the fake news so hard lately.) Younger generations are emerging with alternative media in their hands, and some of them are seeing truth. The more the MSM tries to discredit the alternate scene, the more enemies they'll make of the younger.

      Submitted on Saturday, Apr 27, 2019 at 11:12:34 PM

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      Reply to Devil's Advocate:   New Content

      yup. RT's audience is growing exponentially. I get news breaks from them all day long, and they seem to be plugged in to everybody's iphones. so that is a good sign. I had an experience similar to yours on 911. People I knew who saw the 2nd plane said it was brown and had no windows. And I watched live coverage of the Pentagon and the aftermath. There was a long line of men in shirts and ties combing the lawn and picking up pieces of the missile. In the middle of that line was the Secretary of Defense . Instead of defending the nation from attack he was consumed by hiding the evidence of treason. Then a group of men carried an object exactly the size of a tomahawk missile out of the Pentagon and onto a truck. It was covered in a blue tarp. So yeah, I knew then. Some of us were actually paying attention. What happened next was so telling that I have to say anybody who bought the line that a commercial jet hit the Pentagon had to be brain dead. First the spooks ripped off every security camera within 5 miles, then on 9/12 they covered the lawn in two feet of sand and then covered the sand in concrete. I mean really.

      I take one exception to your ideas on generation. Those of us old enough to have marched in Washington against the Vietnam war were really another breed. We are often called spoiled, but we were highly educated by a good educational system and used our brains. Our power and activism led them to trash the school systems and eliminate Citizenship Education from the school curriculum. Remember that course? It essentially taught us how to protest and who to focus those protests on. Try to find anyone in the general population under 30 who can name the three branches of government . tragic.

      Submitted on Saturday, Apr 27, 2019 at 11:59:07 PM

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      Yep, Rumsfeld carrying around the plane segment (that didn't even belong to the jet in question), was a sight to behold, wasn't it?

      Just as in "our generation", I see all kinds in the ones that followed. I see some who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, but then I see lots that don't believe the USG's story about 9/11, and can give a ton of solid points as to why they don't.

      Of course, I'm in Canada. My observations may not reflect what you see south of the 49th Parallel.

      I guess the question that needs answering is, will it be possible to get enough people (from all walks of life) to take their heads out of their butts long enough to notice something's wrong?

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 3:46:20 AM

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      Excellent article. Even during the '60's, as a teenager, I noticed the prevarications of the NYT. I got my political education at the '68 Chicago unDemocratic Convention. After reading Webster Tarpley's Unauthorized Biography of George Bush(senior), and watching the Bush theft of the 2000 election in front of our very eyes, the first thought I had on hearing if the WTC attack was "Reichstag". Very few in my circle were open to seeing all this. Most still aren't. Even here at OEN, many of the articles are just the Democratic/Republican Washington DC soap opera. And so we drift to catastrophe. Blindly .

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 3:46:34 AM

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      Art Costa

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      Reply to Devil's Advocate:   New Content

      To quote former CIA Director William Casey, "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."

      For those interested in the deception that is the US: Seymour Melman's presentation.

      We live in a vast web of lies and deceptions.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:38:40 AM

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      b. sadie bailey

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        New Content

      excellent article; well articulated. every day the state of things is more appalling. people in the US just blithely go on as if nothing much is happening. the earth isn't dying (2nd largest emperor penguin colony disappeared "overnight" as another huge chunk of antarctic ice shelf dropped into the ocean), we don't have a madman for a president, we're not under neo-McCarthyism; catastrophic nuclear war is not a constant threat! Unbelievable!

      Whistleblowers risk their lives to expose crimes of the State and become scapegoats to torture and kill, and the populace cheers instead of mourns; AI is about to be unleashed; 5G and other remote weapons of torture and mind control are being sicced on dissenters here and around the world; people continue to be fleeced out of their lands, homes, everything....giving a damn is criminalized into a felony...

      this makes Orwell's 1984 look like kindergarten. We are seeing dystopia and human-caused climate change mass extinction. we're in global trauma, much of it U.S. caused. It's beyond any nightmare and/or absurdity i ever could have imagined.

      Well i guess i'm on a rant! Little hope here... it's a relief to see people telling the truth about things, in the midst such insane denial and seeming heartlessness.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 12:29:32 AM

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      Chuck Nafziger

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      Reply to b. sadie bailey:   New Content

      Orwell could have written a whole sequel to "1984" that included Facebook. I find it dumbfounding that people demand that everything they do or plan on doing MUST be on Facebook or they feel something is drastically wrong and the event cannot possibly happen as planned. By the time facebook data is processed by already existing AI, they (whoever Buys the info) know everything about you from your bedtime to your bowel movements. I would not even trust an honest government with this info.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 4:33:09 PM

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      Derryl Hermanutz

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      Reply to Chuck Nafziger:   New Content

      So if I take a selfie of my *ss and post it on Facebook, but nobody "likes" it, does that mean it doesn't exist {:

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 5:28:35 PM

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      Devil's Advocate

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      Reply to Derryl Hermanutz:   New Content

      LOL!

      But seriously, I do know where Chuck is coming from. It's not that your *ss wouldn't exist, more the opposite. The fact that you've posted it means it DOES exist. It's when you don't put it on FB, nobody will believe you have one (even if they're standing behind you).

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 9:52:14 PM

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      Lois Gagnon

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        New Content

      I agree with your article Lila. I only question your figure of 70 million deaths caused by the US since 911. That can't be right. Maybe since WWll? This empire has certainly been on a bloody rampage since WWll.

      I can relate to your despair over the inability of most Americans to face the ugly reality of our circumstances. Most everyone is either too busy working 2 or more jobs to make ends meet or they're too self-absorbed to care about the suffering caused by their own government on behalf of the global oligarchs.

      I've certainly alienated some people in my life for pointing out ugly truths they would rather not know about. That's the price we pay for having a conscience and I'll gladly pay it if I can reach even a few people and get them to open their eyes.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:49:29 AM

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      lila york

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      Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

      the 70 million figure shocked me too. I just read it a few days ago. can't immediately recall the source as I read so much, but I will try to find it.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 3:07:30 AM

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      David Pear

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      I suspect that your 70 million is closer to the truth. It is not just the initial kinetic force, but the after effects that kill the most. Malnutrition, filthy drinking water, cholera, epidemics, lack of medicine, suicide, alcoholism and drugs, domestic abuse, crime, and all the other social, medical and health issues that are magnified tens of times from war.

      At least 10 million people have died just in the Democratic Republic of the Congo in a US backed war perpetrated by Rwandan genocidaire Paul Kagame (btw, the official narrative of the Rwandan genocide is a lie). Kagame is a butcher and a great friend in crime and murder to the Clintons and Obama. We have no idea of how many other "DRC" Africom is secretly behind in Africa.

      Then there is the 70+ percent of dictators that the US is backing. How many hundreds of thousands of people have been tortured to death in their gulags? Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Honduras, Haiti, etc. must be hundreds of thousands each. Look how many 100rds of thousands of "dissidents" that we know about that the US backed puppets Syngman Rhee of South Korea, the Shah of Iran, and Pinochet of Chile killed. Now multiply that by the number of right wing dictators the US backs today.

      I haven't even mention the US/IMF imposed "austerity" yet. The world has enough resources to feed, provide healthcare and education for every man, woman and child in the world. Instead those resources are hoarded by the elite oligarchs, corrupt puppets, and resources wasted on US direct and inspired diversion of those resources for weapons of war. The number of people in the world who die from neoliberal policies greatly exceeds the 70 million you quote!

      I am sure I have left other examples out, but everybody should get the point.

      Edit PS:

      NYT editorial quoting Airwars says that the US military under reports civilian deaths by an estimated factor of 10.

      I would also speculate that the military is grossly underreporting US military deaths. For sure they are not counting those that died from their medical, health and mental wounds.

      For example, Biden's son probably died from brain cancer caused by pollution of highly toxic cocktails of chemicals, including biological weapons, from military burn pits.

      Cancer rates in Iraq are epidemic from "depleted" uranium used in US bombs etc.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:26:25 PM

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      lila york

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      Reply to David Pear:   New Content

      I can't find my source but have found other sources that comply with your estimates - if one accounts for deaths from starvation and disease resulting from American bombing. I found sources estimating 7 million official deaths, but there is no reliable accounting in existence, so it is nearly impossible to know.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 3:50:12 PM

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      Lois Gagnon

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      Reply to David Pear:   New Content

      All good points David. Unfortunately the numbers are impossible to measure, but I'm sure they are staggering.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 6:38:01 PM

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      BFalcon

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      Reply to David Pear:   New Content

      You agree with 70 millions closer to the truth.

      "deaths caused globally by American wars since 911 was 70 million - fifty million of whom were civilians"

      Leave alone civilians. Try to support 20 million combatants - where?

      "Kagame is a butcher and a great friend in crime and murder to the Clintons and Obama" Wow, wow.

      "For example, Biden's son probably died from brain cancer caused by pollution of highly toxic cocktails of chemicals, including biological weapons, from military burn pits."

      At least try not be a doctor.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 8:02:59 PM

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      Art Costa

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      Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

      20,000,000 since WWII is the oft mentioned estimate. The US doesn't count the dead in the war on terror. Most of the numbers come from various academic and human rights organizations.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 3:29:29 AM

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      lila york

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      Reply to Art Costa:   New Content

      As I recall the article was calculating Mideast wars since 911 - which the US will not give numbers of deaths for. I'll keep looking for the source. possible it was a typo but it clearly stated 70 million and 50 million.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 4:42:44 AM

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      BFalcon

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      Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

      Good that you expressed the skepticism of "70 million" fake news.

      Who works more than 2 jobs to make ends meet?

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 3:29:21 PM

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      Lois Gagnon

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      Reply to BFalcon:   New Content

      I know many people who work two jobs to make ends meet. You should get out more.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 6:36:54 PM

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      BFalcon

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      Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

      At least read carefully.

      Question was "work more than two jobs".

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 6:42:30 PM

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      Al Hirschfield

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        New Content

      Here is Wikipedia's timeline of Russian interference in the 2016 election. There are about 150 entries just from 2015-16 alone. They certainly didn't have a massive effect. But to say there was no interference is just silly.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 6:16:42 AM

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      lila york

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

      I have two responses to your post: first that wikipedia is not a reliable source. second that we know from the revelations about vault 7 that the cia and nsa have the ability to make any information appear to have originated in russia or china or anywhere else they choose.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 12:50:33 PM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      I'm sure you'll believe what you want to believe and defy documented facts without demur. But here's one you'll particularly enjoying denying: Trump's own response upon learning of the appointment of a Special Prosecutor into collusion between Russians and the Trump campaign was, "Oh my God... This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm f****d."


      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:41:21 PM

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      lila york

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

      Trump borrowed money from Russians for about 20 years - when he could not get financing from any western bank. not the same thing as election tampering. Trump may soon be exposed as both a tax dodger and being once again bankrupt.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:02:26 PM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      You're talking about .000001% of the case against Trump (and I'm sure are mistaken about that).


      Just one obvious (to any sane person) fact was that Paul Manafort's job before becoming Trump's campaign manager was to install a Putin puppet in the Ukraine, at which he spent years and was paid millions of dollars by Putin. Whether you approve of what we did there or not, the US foiled this attempt and a pro-westerner was elected. This was Manafort's primary qualification, apparently, for running Trump's presidential campaign. And one of the first things Manafort did at the 2016 Republican National Convention as campaign manager was to change Trump's platform from being for the current Ukrainian government, to being against it.


      The sources you're relying on, have been vetted... by whom? People who need to believe what you believe, too?

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:31:10 PM

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      Kate Jones

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

      Come on, that's just Trumpish satire and hyperbole. He'd never mean it seriously, and wouldn't say so if he did..

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:27:36 PM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to Kate Jones:   New Content

      I guess he doesn't seriously mean to stop everyone who has ever worked for him from testifying or turning any documents over to congress.


      Defying congressional subpoenas tends to indicate a very high level of seriousness in most of the circles I travel in. But I guess that's just silly me...

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:37:40 PM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      btw

      Wikipedia has come a long way over of the years: Study: Wikipedia just as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:45:19 PM

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      lila york

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

      That is not my experience with their articles, which are not vetted by any source I respect.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:59:39 PM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      Well I'm sure that Trumps [sic] any bona fide study by anything like "Nature Magazine".


      Thank you for further confirming that you are simply going to believe what suits you.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:46:17 PM

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      lila york

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      ... further - as both Putin and Lavrov have repeatedly stated, the Russian Federation had no reason to believe that either candidate in that election would resume normal diplomatic relations. They did not have a horse in that race. Whatever Trump's banking relations with oligarchs, they did not involve the Russian government.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:58:27 PM

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      Leslie Johnson

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      And I've read that there has never been an article published by Wikileaks that has been proven false. I watch RT instead of our MSM news which I KNOW can't be trusted completely. Every head of the major networks is a Zionist Jew. Now it's trashing Iran..guess they're next..and I hope to God I'm wrong.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 4:17:58 PM

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      Devil's Advocate

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      Reply to Leslie Johnson:   New Content

      Yes, WikiLeaks always published truth, but Al is trying to insist we trust Wikipedia.

      It has been well-documented how Wikipedia is completely compromised by biased forces.

      Hey, wasn't this guy also peddling Fox News (as a good source) recently?

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 4:36:15 PM

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      BFalcon

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      Reply to Devil's Advocate:   New Content

      "This guy", as Al ?

      Submitted on Monday, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:30:23 AM

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      BFalcon

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      Reply to Leslie Johnson:   New Content

      I have heard that there has never been something on RT that has been proven false.

      But it isn't true.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 4:57:00 PM

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      David Pear

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      Reply to BFalcon:   New Content
      Well, this is your big chance. Do the research, write the story, and break the news that RT is fake news. We will all be waiting with bated breath for your exciting expose!


      P.S. I hate feeding trolls, but I couldn't pass this one up.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 7:01:30 PM

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      BFalcon

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      Reply to David Pear:   New Content

      Why claim what I did not ?

      But then again, why claim that I am a troll?

      For your satisfaction, after a little search:

      "One step from bloodshed: Moscow slams Kosovo invasion of Serb-majority area"

      Published time: 1 Oct, 2018 22:20 :

      "Bloodshed" - lie from Russian ministry.

      There was no "invasion".

      And:

      "The troops were in the area for a "single visit" and were providing security to the self-proclaimed state's leader, Hashim Thaci, during his trip to the region."

      Neither the leader nor the state are "self-proclaimed":

      "Hashim Thaçi (born 24 April 1968) is a Kosovar politician who has been the President of Kosovo since April 2016. He was the first Prime Minister of Kosovo and the Foreign Minister and Deputy Prime Minister in the new cabinet led by Isa Mustafa , which assumed office on 12 December 2014. "

      "Kosovo is a partially recognized state and disputed territory in Southeastern Europe .[9][10][11][12][13] "

      I have no inclination to engage in the long discussion of the many falsitudes on RT.

      You wanted one example, gave you a simple one.

      Truth is the truth, not what you like.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 7:39:59 PM

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      David Pear

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      Reply to BFalcon:   New Content

      You're wrong.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 7:49:08 PM

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      BFalcon

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      Reply to David Pear:   New Content

      My, my, wrong?

      There was an invasion?

      Thaci or Kosovo are "self proclaimed"?

      These are simple facts, simple lies by RT.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 7:54:57 PM

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      David Pear

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      Reply to BFalcon:   New Content

      I don't accept Wikipedia as valid sources.

      Submitted on Monday, Apr 29, 2019 at 2:14:55 PM

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      lila york

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      Reply to David Pear:   New Content

      Many good writers here at OEN have been stalked by the resident troll and subjected to dozens of insults for every article published. Some writers have ceased publishing here at all because they found it intolerable. All I can say is that responding in any way contributes to the problem, as the discussion gets sidetracked at the least and destroyed utterly at the worst.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 8:29:32 PM

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      He's really not a troll. He's just an alien from another planet who is desperately trying to fit in. He just doesn't understand what he's doing.

      He really should call home, though.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 9:56:22 PM

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      lila york

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      Reply to Devil's Advocate:   New Content

      cracked me up. I just reported all 21 insulting comments posted here. I guess we shall see if this behavior is going to be tolerated.

      Submitted on Monday, Apr 29, 2019 at 2:07:27 AM

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      BFalcon

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      Stalked? Which insults?

      All I do is correct wrong statements.

      Don't make any, it is that simple.

      Submitted on Monday, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:27:15 AM

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      Reply to BFalcon:   New Content

      Looks to me like you single-handedly pushed Lila's important article to the top of OEN's most read articles for the day. I thank you for performing this valuable service.

      Submitted on Tuesday, Apr 30, 2019 at 12:56:46 AM

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      lila york

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      Reply to Leslie Johnson:   New Content

      Escobar and a few other insider sources on foreign policy have been warning for the last two weeks that Bolton and Pompeo are about to bomb Iran. If so we are all in for a load of heartache. It would certainly lead to a worldwide confrontation, and immediately to the end of mideast oil supplies. Clearly this is coming from the influence of Netanyahu, but he is too irrational to have calculated the effects. Hug your children.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 5:27:15 PM

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      David Pear

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

      The list is almost all gossip, innuendo and bs. Besides it is all speculation that Putin wanted Trump to win instead of Clinton. Putin made one or two public remarks about Trump which were mis-translated due to grammatical differences in the language.

      But just for argument's sake, let's say you are right. It is still a big nothing burger.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:56:27 PM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to David Pear:   New Content

      I guess that depends on whether you're a fan of national sovereignty or not.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 3:02:57 PM

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      Chuck Nafziger

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content
      This comment has been flagged by an editor
      Reason: (Nasty Attacks) While it is not an ad hominem attack, it is clearly nasty and in that regard, violates our commenting rules. COnsider this a warning. Be civil

      What an incredibly stupid statement! This idiotic statement about respecting "national sovereignty" in this time of Venezuela, Iran, Syria, Ukraine, etc. firmly cements your opinions in the bottom of the dumpster behind Facebook's headquarters.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 4:48:08 PM

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      Reply to Chuck Nafziger:   New Content

      Like respecting national sovereignty in Nuremberg ?

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 4:58:38 PM

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      Reply to Chuck Nafziger:   New Content

      That we have no right to an interest in own sovereignty because of our interference in that of others is the intelligent perspective. Thank you...

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 9:08:20 PM

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      Chuck Nafziger

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

      What a fine way to put a spin on your masterpiece of hypocrisy.

      Submitted on Monday, Apr 29, 2019 at 2:01:08 AM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to Chuck Nafziger:   New Content

      You honestly believe that Americans have no right to value and desire their own national sovereignty because of our government's involvement in the affairs of other countries, no matter how immoral or unethical?


      In other words: we have no legitimate right to resist becoming Russian because we've overthrown (or attempted to overthrow) the governments of other countries?


      You are really going to continue to defend this line of reasoning as noble, wise, righteous... and intelligent?

      Submitted on Monday, Apr 29, 2019 at 5:53:29 AM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to Chuck Nafziger:   New Content

      At this point you're having an endless dialog with yourself which bears no resemblance or relevance to my post or this particular thread. At least here you were vehemently attacking the very idea that Americans had any right to national sovereignty because of its actions in "Venezuela, Iran, Syria, Ukraine, etc." Now you've (not so neatly) just skipped that (apparently because you have no rational rebuttal to my direct question) and have run back to the preceding issue of whether or not there was any actual Russian interference in the election.



      You can run but you cannot hide, Che.

      Submitted on Monday, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:05:42 AM

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

      You're failing to see the obvious "pot-kettle" argument here.

      If the U.S. isn't respecting the sovereignty of other nations, then it cannot be believed that any actions they take against other nations are actually to protect their own sovereignty. It's an obvious strawman.

      It's the same as the fake "humanitarian" missions they keep launching at other countries who aren't having such crises, while arming the Israelis and Saudis and supporting their efforts to turn their helpless neighbours into Hells on Earth.

      All the noise the U.S. makes is about others supposedly doing what the U.S. does as a business model - "terrorism", "torture", "election meddling", "spying", "austerity", "false flags", "threatening world peace"... (Feel free to add your own.)

      POT-KETTLE!

      Submitted on Monday, Apr 29, 2019 at 6:24:39 PM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to Devil's Advocate:   New Content

      You can't seem to see that we're (or at least I'm not) talking about US hypocrisy or how we're perceived by anyone. It's about not wanting to become Russian. I don't care how many times our government has gone off on entirely immoral & unethical"adventures" (and I'm getting really tired of constantly repeating myself because someone doesn't get it, no matter how many times I say the same friggin' thing) in other countries. That doesn't mean we are therefore necessarily obliged to sit back and let ourselves be completely conquered by some totalitarian despot. Maybe you don't think there is any difference between life here and life there, but that also is not my problem. This idiotic argument makes as much sense as saying that since we once enslaved huge portions of our population, that we have no right to live as free men. I leave that determination to God. In the meantime, I myself will continue value and fight for my freedom (as relative as it may be), particularly against some narcissistic sleaze ball who would sell out (indeed has sold out) his own country for a buck.

      NO, we should not interfere in other sovereign nation's own business. And if you can't finish the second part of that thought, feel free just go on and on about US hypocrisy. I've done my best to explain it to you. I suspect the subtlety, as well as significance and meaning (there's that damn word again...) of the concept is still going to be utterly lost on you and your minions.

      Submitted on Tuesday, Apr 30, 2019 at 1:24:45 AM

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      Nicholas Ginex

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

      Please reveal who is the narcissistic sleaze ball who would sell out (indeed has sold out) his own country for a buck. We learn from each other.

      Submitted on Tuesday, Apr 30, 2019 at 5:17:12 AM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to Nicholas Ginex:   New Content

      Since it seems that you might be writing from Iran, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (that you couldn't possible be serious) and confess that I am indeed referring to our own Donald J. Trump.

      Submitted on Tuesday, Apr 30, 2019 at 6:49:26 AM

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

      By calling our President a "narcissistic sleaze ball" shows disrespect not only of our president but the American people that voted for him. Although I never voted for President Obama, I never called him any defamatory names. Your disrespect for our president reveals shallowness of character. Also, what makes you think that I am writing from Iran? Please provide your reasoning, or "quote" what I wrote so that our OpEdNews readers know the context of your comment.

      Submitted on Tuesday, Apr 30, 2019 at 6:40:12 PM

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      lila york

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      Reply to Chuck Nafziger:   New Content

      Don't feel too bad about that. He pushed you to it.

      Submitted on Tuesday, Apr 30, 2019 at 12:21:06 AM

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      The interesting thing to note is, that "flagged" comment also got a considerable number of "thumbs". I guess that's an argument for another day.

      Submitted on Tuesday, Apr 30, 2019 at 3:52:49 PM

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      Reply to Devil's Advocate:   New Content

      Challenging not to get angry when one is poked in the eye with a stick.

      Submitted on Tuesday, Apr 30, 2019 at 4:08:48 PM

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      The truths I expressed were stated in an overly spirited way. The reality is there are much better ways to spend my days than arguing with trolls, hilbots and hypocrites. The deep state controls the media from the NYT to the commenters on OEN. The US ain't goin' anywhere good. Keep up your good work against the deluge of propaganda.

      Submitted on Wednesday, May 1, 2019 at 5:53:09 PM

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      gentry cooper

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      Reply to Chuck Nafziger:   New Content

      Chuck I thought your remarks had the perfect tone. Why should we be civil with these hypocrites, who support policies that harm billions worldwide and kills tens of millions. These people support these policies with their articles and words and lies are attacking all of us. They should be identified called out for what they are. To me it is illogical and unproductive and even harmful to try and be civil and reason with such people. They have to be controlled period. And kept as far away from decision making power as possible.

      Submitted on Wednesday, May 1, 2019 at 7:28:27 PM

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      Reply to gentry cooper:   New Content

      I totally agree!

      Selling lies by delivering them in a "politically correct" tone have surely proven to be a helluva lot more harmful to society than calling those lies out in a rude manner. I say, it's time for pure honesty and pushback to the whole government-media lying agenda.

      Even if it means letting a few "bad words" through.

      If someone's pushing baseless crap, I think we should be allowed to express how insulting that is to our intelligence. That's part of what free speech is all about - you combat misinformation with a demand for QUALIFICATION of that information, and a disdain for the refusal to qualify it.

      George Galloway is great working model for this principle. He shows how much people DON'T get away with BS, when you're willing to question their stance as vigorously as they state it.

      What's the point in wearing kid gloves when you're faced with people intending to walk all over you and society at large? As long as what you say attacks the spin they're using, that should be the job of all of us.

      Submitted on Wednesday, May 1, 2019 at 11:32:22 PM

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      Reply to David Pear:   New Content

      The late Robert Parry of Consortium News is the authority on this subject, having done years of investigation and published hundreds of pages of evidence. That is the source I trust on the issue of "Russian interference in US elections" , and he has proven many times over that it never occurred.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 4:21:02 PM

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      Robert Cowen

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

      I agree, Al.

      This absolute denial of Russian interference in the 2016 elections is silly for at least the following reasons.

      1. All governments interfere in the elections of other countries if they feel it is in their interest and are able to do so. Yes Israel is a prime example.

      2. The US has been doing this for over 75 years.

      3. The Russians clearly prefered Trump to Clinton.

      Therefore to claim that the Russians absolutely didn't interfere in the 2016 elections is either naive or disingenuous.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 7:34:16 PM

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      Patricia 0rmsby

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      Reply to Robert Cowen:   New Content

      That is a cynical way of projecting: "We commit this crime, so therefore everyone does."


      With Mrs. Clinton claiming their elected leader to be Hitler, we shouldn't be surprised if the average Russian did not like her and favored Trump, who claimed to want better relations with Russia. But it is basically no secret to those whose job it is to pay attention to where the power really lies that the President is a figurehead that handles window dressing, as has been borne out since the election, with no break in the anti-Russian hysteria, and Trump's chosen UN delegates if anything more hysterical than Obama's. Do you really think Putin is that much of a fool? I don't.

      Submitted on Tuesday, Apr 30, 2019 at 1:10:13 AM

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      BFalcon

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      Which "hard evidence" shows " that the Tsarnaev brothers had nothing to do with the "bombs" exploded at the Boston marathon"?

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 3:24:46 PM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to BFalcon:   New Content

      As much as I really do appreciate your support as always, BF, I have to agree with Lila on this one. If you go to PCR's web site, hopefully you can the piece he wrote about how the remains of the backpack which was entered into evidence by the FBI as being the one which exploded, indicated that it was black, while the Tsarnaev brother's was white (or vice versa). The brother who is now in jail is appealing his guilty verdict using his Chechnyan attorney aunt who practices there, and this apparently is going to be one of the key features of their case. There are actually a number of very, very compelling reasons to believe that the whole thing was a frame.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 3:48:54 PM

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      BFalcon

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

      My friend, I appreciate your desire to seek the truth, that is the most important thing.

      But I would not trust PCR.

      But "very compelling reasons to believe that the whole thing was a frame" is not the same as "hard evidence" shows " that the Tsarnaev brothers had nothing to do with the "bombs" exploded at the Boston marathon" which I still claim is false.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 5:02:12 PM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to BFalcon:   New Content

      What "hard evidence" can you share with us of the brothers being the bombers?

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 9:50:36 PM

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      BFalcon

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      Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

      I didn't claim any.

      That doesn't mean that there is hard evidence they aren't.

      Submitted on Monday, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:24:14 AM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to BFalcon:   New Content

      What "hard evidence" can you share with us of the brothers being the bombers?

      Submitted on Monday, Apr 29, 2019 at 4:50:58 PM

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      lila york

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      news off topic - Bart Chilton, host of RT's Boom Bust dead of "sudden illness" at age 58. He is the second RT America host to die of a "sudden illness", the first being Ed Schulz, former anchor at MSNBC. https://www.rt.com/usa/457729-bart-chilton-commissioner-dies/

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 3:44:59 PM

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      BFalcon

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      Reply to lila york:   New Content

      Nemtsov died too.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 5:06:24 PM

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      Leslie Johnson

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      About the Russian interference...I give a flip. How many elections have WE interfered with, including our own? How many coups have WE been behind, including our own? How many wars have WE been engaged in from False Flags that we were either tacitly or actively behind? How many illegal wars against a country that never attacked us have WE been in involved in? How many whistleblowers have WE put behind bars?


      And I think Assange is a hero. May he get through this intact.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 4:09:12 PM

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      BFalcon

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      Reply to Leslie Johnson:   New Content

      We "have a lot". Russians too.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 5:04:30 PM

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      Al Hirschfield

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      Reply to Leslie Johnson:   New Content

      So... you care passionately about the integrity of the other countries' democratic process, but give a flip about our own? We don't deserve it because of our government's interference in elections outside of our country?

      Deep. Profound. Insightful. And above all, practical!

      Now I see: you folks are so far gone you think you're the Second Coming!

      Good luck, in the pseudo-righteous muck.

      My mistake. I actually took this site for something altogether different from what it turns out to be.

      Keep the money, Rob. It looks like you're going to need it...

      I'm afraid your frog is completely fried.

      Submitted on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 5:09:39 PM

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      Michael Morrissey

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      I don't disagree with what Lila says here but would like to take her up on her offer to supply the facts to demonstrate that the "Tsarnaev brothers had nothing to do with the "bombs" exploded at the Boston marathon and were classic patsies." I don't deny it but have not looked into it any more than I have various other possibly "false-flag" attacks, simply because for me 9/11 and JFK were enough. So I'm not saying I have an opinion about it one way or the other, I'm just asking why any more evidence is needed to show us where we stand in relation to Big Brother, whom I will define as the perpetrators of the JFK assassination and 9/11. Why add the Boston and London bombings, school shootings, Mumbai, Madrid, etc. etc. to the mix? When is enough enough? So my question is partly rhetorical in that although I am curious to know what Lila considers the "facts" in the case of the Boston bombing, it's not going to make any difference in my view of reality.

      My second point is that although I agree the Germans have per force of history had to face up somewhat more to reality than Americans, the blue pill is nevertheless very much the preferred preferred medication here. The analogy is misleading because it's not as if there were really only two pills to "choose" from. The "blue pill" is the daily diet and we all eat plentifully of it. RT is considered by most Germans to be a Russian propaganda organ just as it is in the US. Virtually any current event will be treated in the German MSM exactly as it is in the US (and probably elsewhere in Europe, though I won't attempt that generalization). It's just one damn thing after another. Latest thing that caught my eye (more my stomach) was the "coverage" of last week's beheading of 37 dissidents in Saudi Arabia, followed by a meeting the next day of global financiers as if nothing had happened.

      Submitted on Sunday, Apr 28, 2019 at 4:20:28 PM

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      lila york

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