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Transcript-- Coleen Rowley About Meeting with Edward Snowden in Moscow

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Now in between Diane Feinstein was not, she of course is head of the Intelligence Committee, but she has no official chairmanship of the Judiciary, but she interjects herself and they gave her time, they let her speak out of line, and she gave this passionate speech about if we were to curtail the NSA's intelligence gathering programs, we will be risking another 9/11 attack and also implying that 9/11 itself would not have happened had the NSA been doing it's massive data gathering so, and she was really passionate about this.  

I'm afraid that it probably made some points with the other members of the Senate Judiciary.  You could kind of see them all looking at her and kind of shaking their head in agreement and this is exactly what I just mentioned to you about using this fear mongering and  this idea, well we could have another attack if we now reform these interpretations of the law, about relevancy, etcetera and she since has written an op-ed at the Wall Street Journal.  I think the title of the Wall Street Journal is about two days ago and the title is "NSA Programs Protect Us" or something like that.  It has the word "protection" or "they offer protection from 9/11" something like that is the problem  

R.K: the problem with that oped is that it's behind the Wall Street Journal's paywall so people can't get to it.

C.R.: I somehow, I don't know how, I got to it but I was able to read it.  I guess maybe through different ways on the internet I found it somehow and I have even posted on Facebook but maybe other people when they click it they can't get it. I'm not sure.  But that oped actually puts in words what she said at this hearing and there's two things that she's saying: she's saying that Keith Alexander and Clapper claim there are fifty four, she doesn't use the word claim that was my term, she says, there are, she just takes it point blank for sure, there are fifty four examples where the NSA's data has stopped a terrorist attack.  

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Now that, right from the start, that's been debunked.  When Keith Alexander first said there were fifty four examples, he was asked the next day, "well what are they?"  And they de-classified three examples and once those three examples were out the press itself said, "uh Mumbai attacks, that's not effecting America and by the way what was the piece of that evidence that connected it with the NSA?"  And there was another one, I think it was a U.K.example.  So they immediately debunked these examples.  And then in July, a FBI offical testifies that there's only one real example and the one real example that the FBI says does exist when they  "found the needle" which means, the needle meaning that you have to have a haystack.  

That was the quote that this FCBI official says, "we found the needle" which means you have to have a haystack.  Makes no sense at all.  But in the haystack they found this one connection and this was to a San Diego case of a cab driver who gave something like eight thousand dollars and they convicted him ostensibly for knowing that that few thousand dollars was going to Shebab.  I don't know how strong that evidence, I think it's still on appeal, the evidence showing that he knows this eight thousand dollars was going to El Shebab or wether many times they think they're giving their money to a charity or etcetera, in any case it seems to me to be a pretty flimsy example if that's the one example.  

Well you won't see that in the Wall Street Journal of Diane Feinstein.  She says there's fifty four examples.  She's going right back to what Keith Alexander claimed.  The reason this is important is, and actually the Senators themselves on October 2 asked Alexander, they asked him point blank, you said there were fifty four examples but isn't there just one"?  Because they were quoting the FBI official.  Keith Alexander kind of stuttered and goes, "well I thought there were two." *chuckles* That's what his response was.  Anyway, this seems like she's really now going back to an earlier time and this has been debunked.  

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It's very important because if people think that this works, of course it puts it on a very different footing that what Edward Snowden and many other statisticians and other people believe, which is that by adding hay to a haystack it makes it more difficult to find some rare profile or whatever you want to call it.

R.K.: That brings us to this whole new fascination with big data that suddenly it's going to be a massive gold-mine of useful information.  You know what you also talked about in that article is about your experience going back to 9/11 and how the real problem was not not having NSA data it was that the information that was collected was not properly shared.  

It was called "smoke-stacking" and that's kind of like what you described was the way they're handling things now with this new approach.  What did you call that term?  The -

C.R.: Haystack ?

R.K: Insider - 

C.R.: Oh The Insider Threat Program? Yeah -

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R.K.:You know I've never heard of that term before.  It seems to me like that kind of stuff is, and the way that they are compartmentalizing as you described it, is likely to produce more of the same kind of failures within the agencies that were failures prior to 9/11 that prevented it from being stopped.  

C.R.: Yep.  That's exactly the case.  The Insider Threat Program is basically a very similar to what they claim that they can do which is profile for terrorists and that somehow the computers that they -- if you just collect everything and input all of this data somehow they will be able to tell you.  This Insider Threat Program is the same only it's going to be able to tell agencies directors who are the potential leakers in an agency.  

This is all hogwash, complete hogwash.  The National Academy of Sciences,  amongst others, this is not possible.  It's basically kind of a theme of "Minority Report" that somehow you're able to guess or judge a future action.  Just not possible.  It justifies though, this is what justifies this big massive collection of overwhelmingly non-relevant data.  That's the key thing that you have to understand,  Bush got caught by the New York Times in two thousand -- right after he was elected and this article came out.  It had been called Total Information Awareness up to then.  

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Rob Kall is an award winning journalist, inventor, software architect, connector and visionary. His work and his writing have been featured in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, the HuffingtonPost, Success, Discover and other media. He's given talks and workshops to Fortune 500 execs and national medical and psychological organizations, and pioneered first-of-their-kind conferences in Positive Psychology, Brain Science and Story. He hosts some of the world's smartest, most interesting and powerful people on his Bottom Up Radio Show, and founded and publishes one of the top Google- ranked progressive news and opinion sites, OpEdNews.com

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Rob Kall has spent his adult life as an awakener and empowerer-- first in the field of biofeedback, inventing products, developing software and a music recording label, MuPsych, within the company he founded in 1978-- Futurehealth, and founding, organizing and running 3 conferences: Winter Brain, on Neurofeedback and consciousness, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology (a pioneer in the field of Positive Psychology, first presenting workshops on it in 1985) and Storycon Summit Meeting on the Art Science and Application of Story-- each the first of their kind.  Then, when he found the process of raising people's consciousness and empowering them to take more control of their lives  one person at a time was too slow, he founded Opednews.com-- which has been the top search result on Google for the terms liberal news and progressive opinion for several years. Rob began his Bottom-up Radio show, broadcast on WNJC 1360 AM to Metro Philly, also available on iTunes, covering the transition of our culture, business and world from predominantly Top-down (hierarchical, centralized, authoritarian, patriarchal, big)  to bottom-up (egalitarian, local, interdependent, grassroots, archetypal feminine and small.) Recent long-term projects include a book, Bottom-up-- The Connection Revolution, debillionairizing the planet and the Psychopathy Defense and Optimization Project. 


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