J.F.: It's, you know in my case and probably in other people's case who are kind of these successful type of psychopaths or near-psychopaths, I have everything I want. You know what I mean? I've always had all the money I wanted and the sex and any power I wanted because there was always people asking me to be in leadership roles- the head of the faculty, the hospital, the head of this, the head of that. It started when I was a teenager and it was just something because what's called a fearless dominance. You know that's one of the traits. It's not what Hare calls it but it's part of the PPI thing and I have that. People respond very positively to it. So all I have to do, if I go out to a bar tonight and start talking to people they'll be calling me all week to try to get in touch with me to try to have me work with them and have, you know, it's automatic and I think I just get pleasure out of knowing I can do it and without, you know, to abuse anybody, to hurt anybody, or that kind of thing is for chumps. But to be able to play the game and not need it and, I think, just gives me such a rush that that's what I'm feeding off of.
R.K.: Well, wait a second, because in your book you do say that you've hurt people and people have told you that you've hurt them. Your daughter and I think your sister wrote to you and they sent you a letter saying how much you'd hurt them. So are you one of the chumps?
J.F.: Well, but with that one, when I got those letters and when other people close to me and they finally said, I can't be with you anymore, I can't be close to you, I can't be alone with you, that really surprised me because I'm saying wait a second, I'm a loving father, I'm a loving brother and all of that. And when I read it, it was just like I said, what's wrong with them? This must be, they must be, stressed out because it's not me. But now, the past couple of years, in looking at that and then talking with them about it and everything, I know I really did blow it off because I don't, as my mother says, Jim, you just don't care. And I care to win and I like being with people and I'm quite social, but it's, "why?" Why I'm doing that and I like to think it's because I really like people and I try to help people but I've got to admit, it's partially because I get a buzz out of manipulating them. And that's not so great.
R.K.: So this just don't care thing, that ties in with the lack of empathy and this is a hard core sign of psychopathy.
J.F.: Right. And it's, you know but I gave a talk in India about this just recently and a person who is a psychiatrist and also a science writer talked to me. She said, I've got to talk to you. She said what you're talking about, she says, you call it psychopathy, but it's very Buddhist. I went, Buddhist? She says, yeah, because you live in this flat world where everybody you treat everybody emotionally the same in terms of connectedness. Now, I can see a child in trouble and I can cry. And that started early, very early on in life and I still, it still gets to me. And I actually am involved in a lot of charities and philanthropy and I think I'm doing good things for the world, as much as I should or could. But I'm not, being close to me I don't give any more than if you were a stranger. And so I'm disappointing to people close to me in that way but it doesn't mean I don't have... I have sympathy. I have a kind of empathy for everybody. Do you know what I mean? And I do, you can see it in my behavior. But beyond that, personally I don't care.
R.K.: Well ,one of the things you do in your book is you talk about how there are some behaviors that get locked in with the genetic manifestation because some genetic patterns manifest at certain developmental stages and I got this impression that this caring for children was one that kind of got locked in before the other stuff happened. Did I get that right?
J.F.: Absolutely. I mean you got it dead on because that was a real question. It's like, people say, why, you saw that kid in trouble or somebody with a neurological disorder, developmental disorder, they said, I saw tears in your eye. And that started when I was young and I used to visit some of these hospitals. My father owned a drugstore and in going there early on I saw them and it was really sort of when I think I really did have a connection and it would really get to me and it still... that's the one thing that's held on and I think it's a conditioned emotional response. It happened so early when I was around people, young kids, who had Down's Syndrome and because of that I really hated bullies. And the people I really was kind of rough on were bullies and it had to do with these kids with developmental disorders but, I think, other things don't get to me emotionally. Generally, I can see people in poverty and in trouble but it doesn't bother me like that. So I... it may be something that really hit me very, very young and it stuck with me.
R.K.: Unless somebody pisses you off and then you talk in the book about revenge. Talk about your approach to revenge.