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Transcript : Former Catholic Priest Matthew Fox on Ratzinger, Opus Dei and the Broken Catholic Church

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Rob Kall:   Tell me more about Liberation Theology.  I want to hear about Opus Dei, and we're going to have a conversation about that, but first tell me about the good stuff, about Liberation Theology.

 

Matthew Fox:   Well, it is, as the Latin American Bishops said in one of their big conferences, Medellin Conference, years ago, they said "It's a preferential option for the poor.  The Gospel requires that we put the poor out front and up front, and that we listen to them.  So, the Liturgy is Base Community Theology is about a circle, not about just one guy preaching, but about everybody testifying to their experience trying to live out the Gospel.  So it's a much more Horizontal approach to worship and to Theology, and it is about the struggle for justice being one of the important ways to incarnate the Jesus teaching, such as Matthew 25: "When you do it to the least, you do it to me."  Love your neighbor is not an abstraction.  Of course you remember, Latin America back then had horrible disparate divisions between the very rich, and the many, many, many poor.  But since then, you'll notice that the Middle Class is building up in many of these countries, especially in Brazil, Argentina, and so forth; and so there has been real progress, but it's not been -- what can I say?  It's not from the top down, it's from the bottom up, and that's how Liberation Theology operates.  The Holy Spirit works through the poor, and not exclusively through the [Church].  It's not trickle-down grace - or trickle-down economics.

 

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Rob Kall:   One thing I've wondered: is it possible for there to be a Catholic Church, a Catholic Religion, that is bottom up as compared to the ultra-hierarchical system that begins with the Pope?

 

Matthew Fox:   That's a great question, and that's really what I concluded in my book on the Pope. It's that I think the Holy Spirit has been at work destroying the Catholic Church as we know it.  That is to say, exactly how you're identifying the top down thing.  It's just lost all credibility.  This horrible revelation of, not just the Priestly Pedophilia, but the coverup of the priestly pedophilia by hierarchy; like Cardinal Law, like the Pope, and like Cardinal Mahony now.  All this coverup, that's the real crime.  To think people at the top, the CEOs so to speak, would act on this this out of moral necessity, but they didn't.  They swept [it] under the rug to protect the institution. 

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Look at Penn State, look what happened at Penn State.  Within two years they fired everyone, they took down the statue of this icon, this hero football coach, and they got moving.  But here, it's been thirty [30] years since the horrible news abut Father Maciel, this Priest that Pope John Paul II was so close to that he took him on his plane with him when he went places.  This Father Maciel had abused twenty [20] of the seminarians, sexually abused them.  He had two wives and four children, and he sexually abused them, all of the rest of it.  And Ratzinger knew about this and did nothing.  After he was Pope he finally did something, but he knew about it well beforehand.  That's absolute fact.  And it was his job as head of the congregation, doctrine, and faith, to do something, and the Pope knew about it and did nothing. 

 

And, you know, what's more horrible than abuse of Children?  Jesus talks about that, doesn't he, in the Gospels?  You put a millstone around your neck and throw yourself in the water, he said.  Tough language!  And so, I think it's impossible to bring the structure back.  It's lost all credibility.  It has nothing to do with Jesus anyway.  By that I mean: Jesus was on the side of the poor, he took on the Empire.  This whole idea of "The Church is here to organize Empires and give it religious legitimacy" is contrary the Gospels, and contrary to History. 

 

So, I think the Holy Spirit is at work deconstructing the Church as we know it, and that's why the last third of my book on the Pope is "Where do we go from here?"  Hey, it's wide open!  Since the Vatican is in Schism, we're free to ordain women, ordain gays, bring back married Priests; just start things over again, keep it simple.  Don't travel with basilicas on your back, a backpack is enough; the Gospels, the Prophets, the martyrs, the mystics, we are all part of that story, and we can move forward now, much, much, much, much lighter.  And I think that's what the younger generation is looking for:  a much lighter version.  As I say: spirituality?   Yes.  Religion?  I don't think we need so much of that.

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Rob Kall:   This is the Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show, WNJC 1360 AM, reaching South Jersey and metro Philly out of Washington Township, sponsored by Opednews.com . If you want Liberal news, Progressive opinion, Opednews.com is the place to go.  Don't ask me.  Check with Google.  Put in the search terms "Liberal news" or "Progressive opinion," you don't even need to remember the name Opednews.com .  If you Google those terms, Opednews.com will come up at the top. 

 

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Rob Kall is an award winning journalist, inventor, software architect, connector and visionary. His work and his writing have been featured in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, the HuffingtonPost, Success, Discover and other media. He's given talks and workshops to Fortune 500 execs and national medical and psychological organizations, and pioneered first-of-their-kind conferences in Positive Psychology, Brain Science and Story. He hosts some of the world's smartest, most interesting and powerful people on his Bottom Up Radio Show, and founded and publishes one of the top Google- ranked progressive news and opinion sites, OpEdNews.com

more detailed bio: 

Rob Kall has spent his adult life as an awakener and empowerer-- first in the field of biofeedback, inventing products, developing software and a music recording label, MuPsych, within the company he founded in 1978-- Futurehealth, and founding, organizing and running 3 conferences: Winter Brain, on Neurofeedback and consciousness, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology (a pioneer in the field of Positive Psychology, first presenting workshops on it in 1985) and Storycon Summit Meeting on the Art Science and Application of Story-- each the first of their kind.  Then, when he found the process of raising people's consciousness and empowering them to take more control of their lives  one person at a time was too slow, he founded Opednews.com-- which has been the top search result on Google for the terms liberal news and progressive opinion for several years. Rob began his Bottom-up Radio show, broadcast on WNJC 1360 AM to Metro Philly, also available on iTunes, covering the transition of our culture, business and world from predominantly Top-down (hierarchical, centralized, authoritarian, patriarchal, big)  to bottom-up (egalitarian, local, interdependent, grassroots, archetypal feminine and small.) Recent long-term projects include a book, Bottom-up-- The Connection Revolution, debillionairizing the planet and the Psychopathy Defense and Optimization Project. 

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