Things that were guaranteed by the founding fathers and enshrined in our Constitution have been taken away from us. Well you've been typing on Facebook and giving away that information. I think people think they have a sense of freedom that they don't and we have become, on one level kind of robotic when we give in to what can essentially be seen as the beginning of a totalitarian state.
So I think that people who think they have a lot of choices need to realize they don't and in part it's because you're giving up individual rights for state rights and that's not what this country is about. The government is supposed to listen to us and do what we ask them to do.
R.K.: Does that happen anymore? Does the government actually listen to us? When you say listen, you don't mean listen surreptitiously, of course. Of course they listen to us when we don't want them to but do they actually pay attention to what we care about anymore? I don't think so. I think we're past that point unfortunately.
H.B.: Well you know I would -
R.K.: [ss26:27] Are there -
H.B.: I would say we have to keep trying because -
R.K.: I agree -
H.B.: Once we give up -
R.K.: Are there actually -
H.B.: We're no longer a nation of free people so I would say.
R.K.: No I'm not giving up by any means. I'm just saying that the regular means are working and we have to do something extraordinary. Are there examples, are their efforts going on, you mentioned, your last chapter is loaded with good resources and descriptions of different organizations doing specific things.
Do you have any advice for the listeners or the readers of this transcript when it's made a transcript, on what they can do, what they can start doing immediately?
H.B.: Well one of the things that I do mention and I do list in the book a number of organizations both legal and sort of public policy, I mention the Electronic Frontier Foundation, they're a wonderful group that has a great website, the Electronic Privacy Information Center is another one that you can go to and read up on various technology related ways the government is monitoring us and things that you can do.
You know one thing is to be aware of how you communicate electronically and if you want to take certain measures that way, there are different things that you can do including Tor software for example to encrypt your messages and communications, but I think the number one thing is to start being aware so that you don't enter blindly in to something without knowing what you're giving over in terms of your personal information, and if you can't go to protests or write letters or write oped pieces you can certainly support some of these many groups.
One I mention is a group that works on behalf of children's privacy rights for example in Massachusetts and I talk about how children's information for example is especially vulnerable online but I think that just start to be aware of people that are working to fight this surveillance apparatus and find a way that you can plug in.
R.K.: In a couple weeks I'll be talking to Thomas Drake, having him back on my show. What do you say to somebody like him or Chelsea Manning or Edward Snowden? What's the message you have for them?