In the Catholic Church today, and this doesn't make news much, but there's more and more small communities happening, where they meet for Mass on Sunday or something, but in small groups. They'll have women presiding, they'll have married Priests presiding, they'll have Gay people presiding, but they're doing it together in a circle. It's not about idolizing one ordained person up at the altar.
Rob Kall: So, you just said that, in the Catholic church, people are getting together in small communities, getting together in a circle, sometimes led by women. Is this happening in Catholic Churches, or is it happening in peoples' homes?
Matthew Fox: It's happening in homes, it's happening in rented halls, it's happening in Protestant churches; some of these groups are, in effect, renting the space, Protestant churches or even Jewish synagogues to do this. That's what's interesting, people are using their imaginations, and they're realizing that they're not being fed in the Catholic system anymore. So many people have told me over the last few years, especially these days, that they can't go to Mass anymore, because what is being preached and taught there is so Patriarchal, it's so sexist, it's so top down, that their souls are not being fed. And so they realize they have to take what I call "Take the beauty from the burning building, take what's of worth, the treasure from the burning building, and putting in different forms in different gatherings," and this is happening.
And then of course there's Mens Movement. It's very important that men deal with their spiritual evolution as women have been doing for decades. I think this is essential too, that we have a detoxed sense of masculinity, a cleaned up masculinity. I wrote about this a couple of years ago in my book called The Hidden Spirituality of Men. But men are yearning, really, to get in deeper touch with healthy spirituality. And again, the Patriarchal model that you're getting, such as from these last two Popes, is not adequate, because neither is the "football model," or the "I win, you lose" model. It's reptilian brain stuff, and men are realizing more and more that they can do better than that.
Rob Kall: This is the Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show, WNJC 1360 AM, reaching metro Philly and South Jersey, sponsored by Opednews.com where you get Liberal news and opinion. I'm speaking with Matthew Fox. He's the author of The Popes War, a former Catholic Priest, and we've been starting off talking about Pope Ratzinger and his resignation, but we've moved on and we've talked about perhaps the future of the Catholic religion for Catholics who no longer tolerate the top down, hierarchical, Patriarchal way that the Catholic church is stuck.
Now, Matthew, you just talked about how people are leaving because the church is top down and so Patriarchal. I've come to believe for many years that Conservatism, the Right wing, it is anti-feminine. Not just anti-women as we learned in the last Presidential election, but it opposes the whole idea of the feminine archetype. Have thoughts on that?
Matthew Fox: Absolutely. As I say, what does the Taliban, the Vatican, and Pat Robertson [each word said stressing the last syllable as "ahn"] all have in common? It's this rabid fear of the feminine. And of course, the idea of the Divine Feminine is absolutely sends them out the window. So this is a great insight to realize to realize that this is what the real battle is about. It's this balance of Yin and Yang, of the masculine and the feminine, of the Divine Feminine and the Sacred Masculine.
This is really where a lot of the struggle is being played out, and this is why you'll have the Vatican beating up on women. Now they're coming after the sisters! I mean, how you can come after Catholic Sisters (laughs), who've devoted their whole life to working the front line, to the poor, and educating, and working in inner cities, and all the rest; it's hard to fathom, especially when this very church has been covering up priestly pedophilia for decades. But you realize, just what you're talking about, that the drive to control women is behind so much of Fundamentalism.