FB: Well, that's correct. Kushner is aiding and abetting, by means of his foundation, he is aiding and abetting more crimes under the Hague Regulations of 1907, to which the United States government is a party, a violation of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, the four Geneva Conventions to which the United States is a party. And crimes against humanity as defined by the statute of the International Criminal Court. And the prosecutor, the International Criminal Court, is currently investigating war crimes, and crimes against humanity because of these settlements.
So, it's impossible to think that a guy like Kushner could possibly serve as some type of mediator here, and it does look now, the Palestinians have decided to turn to Russia and China, and the United Nations to serve as mediators. Although I have to point out, Dennis, that I was involved as legal adviser to the Palestinian delegation to the Middle East Peace Negotiations right from the very beginning there in Washington, D.C. in the fall of 1991, convened by President Bush, Sr., and the United States government has never served as an honest broker. They've always supported the Israeli position.
And, indeed, I think as I mentioned it before, Bush, Sr. put three American Jews in charge of the process, [Dennis] Ross, [Aaron David] Miller and [Daniel] Kurtzer. And they basically functioned as Israel's lawyer. And, I believe, two of them were, still are, orthodox. I don't think Ross is. And here we are, all these years later, now 2017 -- that was 1991 -- and nothing has changed because Trump has put Kushner, [David] Friedman and [Jason] Greenblatt as the so-called negotiators.
And here all three of them are orthodox. So, this situation is completely preposterous. How do you expect any negotiations to go on here -- reasonable, fair negotiations? It's not going to happen.
DB: And, I guess, that takes us back to Nikki Haley's threatening statements today sounding like a bit of a mafioso captain warning any nation that would vote -- I guess they didn't have much of an impact on the vote -- but clearly it's got to be frightening if you're a little nation that lives or dies based on U.S. aid and they're saying you vote for this resolution in support of the Palestinians then we're going to kill you. This is also not a good sign.
FB: Right, well without the Haley/Trump threats, I suspect the Palestinians would have also picked up the 35 abstentions, and maybe the no-shows. It appears several states just didn't show up, because of these threats. So, basically it probably would have been -- what, there's 193 U.N. member states -- so it probably would have been 185 to 9. But under United for Peace all they needed was two-thirds of those voting and abstentions didn't count. So, there you are.
They have the votes, and indeed, they do have the votes to be admitted as a full-fledged U.N. member state based on this vote here. And the Trump/Haley threats, it does appear to me, they've got the votes to get admitted to the U.N., hopefully starting in January [2018]. There's been a statement made that they will be submitting another resolution on their admission to the Security Council sometime in January. And, assuming the U.S. vetoes it, which it probably will under Trump, they can again invoke Uniting for Peace, and put it before the General Assembly.
Because, at the end of the day, in accordance with the terms of the United Nations charter, the Security Council only makes a recommendation on admission, not any decision. There's a big difference between recommendations and decisions. And, also, under the terms of the United Nations charter, at the end of the day, it is the General Assembly that admits a member state, not the Security Council.
I had advised the Palestinians years go, they can do this, that they did try in 2012. And, at that point they decided just to go for observer state status. They're going one step at a time, and we'll have to see what their next step is.
I also noticed that, although I don't have a list, but [Palestinian] President Abbas just exceeded to about 22 different treaties. I still haven't gotten the names of those treaties. But that also goes back to our previous conversation on Jerusalem here on a legal intifada.
They will use their memberships in all these international organizations to further solidify and promote their statehood. And, the bottom line is, I think that's positive, one, because even [Noam] Chomsky has pointed out, if the Palestinians keep going this way, at the end of the day you'll have two states over there.
Otherwise, I'm afraid we're just going to have total chaos, and the Palestinians will be getting nothing more than a collection of little Bantustans. You remember, back in the days, Dennis, when we used to fight apartheid in South Africa. We had Transkei, Ciskei, and Bophuthatswana that weren't even connected with each other. They were little bitty plots of land. And that's pretty much what Israel has in mind here.
DB: And it is important to note those who fought that war against apartheid in South Africa are among the strongest supporters of the Palestinians. And they now say, and I pushed them on this, because I want to know if we're talking hyperbole here, and they now say that the Palestinian situation is way worse, particularly in Gaza. Way worse than they ever had it in terms of the Bantustans that you were just referring to.
FB: That's correct. And indeed, my friend, Professor John Dugard, who had been Special Rapporteur on Palestine is from South Africa. And he was one of a handful of white, international law professors over there with the courage, integrity and principles to oppose apartheid in South Africa, at risk to his life. And Dugard has said the same thing. If you want to look at... do a google on his name DUGARD.
And Dugard has said, and as you point out, other ANC leaders have said, that what the Palestinians are up against is far worse than what we were up against in the struggle against apartheid. You were involved, I was involved, many of us fought apartheid in South Africa. And we're fighting apartheid over there [Palestine] today as well. The legal principles are pretty much the same.
DB: The legal principles are the same, but the uh... sort of the history and the details, or the situation, are quite a bit different. Israel and its lobby controls U.S. policy so they're... all those anti-apartheiders have been fairly silent, wouldn't you say?
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